Anti-vaxxers

TheRepentent

Dohnjoe wrote: »

jesus christ

Read
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/whatifstop.htm

In fairness thats why they are called vaxtards.....

Igotadose

Stolen from FB, nice post:

In all my healthcare years, 19 of them (ER/Critical care). I’ve not once, had to do more than put topical steroid cream on a rash or apply an ice pack for a “vaccine reaction” .

Here’s a fun list of alt med illnesses & injuries I’ve seen:

Chemical burns from oils
Infected dermatitis from oils
Stage four breast cancer that didn’t respond to oils (shocker)
Poisoning from EO ingestion x3
Spinal fractures from chiropractic visits
Ligament tears from chiropractic visits
Infected acupuncture sites
Liver failure from dietary supplements
Seizures from failed homeopathic fever reducers
Pneumonia/sepsis after failed homeopathic flu treatments
Renal failure and liver failure from home “detox” preparations
Severe vomiting/seizure from CBD oil ingestion
Hyperemesis from chronic marijuana use (more times than I can count)
Anaphylaxis from “the stuff my friend sells” (never did figure out what it was but looked like some kind of herb in a gel cap)
Chemical burns to eye -essential oils
Hemorrhagic Stroke -inversion table
Hallucinations from “herbs my naturopath gave me”
Tachycardia from dietary supplements
Heart attack after ephedra ingestion

Should I keep going? Because that’s not even the end of it. Calls to poison control, NG tubes, emergency dialysis, referrals to burn center, wound care, activated charcoal, code stroke, cardiac cath lab, all interventions for crack pot pseudoscience “natural medicine” that leave people disabled or dead.

So you if you’re worried about vaccines but trust that products or treatments from a completely unregulated industry are safe, you’re wrong and there’s a better chance I’ll see you in my ER because of it- BTW, big pharma loves that.

kylith

Igotadose wrote: »

Stolen from FB, nice post:

In all my healthcare ...

In my own very limited experience I have worked with a woman confined to a wheelchair from childhood polio. My mother is deaf in one ear due to measles. A family friend spent a couple of months in the hospital after contracting TB.


There's a reason why people in regions where these diseases are still prevalent walk miles to get their children vaccinated. They know what these diseases are like, people in the developed world have forgotten.

Varta

Igotadose wrote: »

Stolen from FB, nice post:

In all my healthcare years, 19 of them (ER/Critical care). I’ve not once, had to do more than put topical steroid cream on a rash or apply an ice pack for a “vaccine reaction” .

Here’s a fun list of alt med illnesses & injuries I’ve seen:

Chemical burns from oils
Infected dermatitis from oils
Stage four breast cancer that didn’t respond to oils (shocker)
Poisoning from EO ingestion x3
Spinal fractures from chiropractic visits
Ligament tears from chiropractic visits
Infected acupuncture sites
Liver failure from dietary supplements
Seizures from failed homeopathic fever reducers
Pneumonia/sepsis after failed homeopathic flu treatments
Renal failure and liver failure from home “detox” preparations
Severe vomiting/seizure from CBD oil ingestion
Hyperemesis from chronic marijuana use (more times than I can count)
Anaphylaxis from “the stuff my friend sells” (never did figure out what it was but looked like some kind of herb in a gel cap)
Chemical burns to eye -essential oils
Hemorrhagic Stroke -inversion table
Hallucinations from “herbs my naturopath gave me”
Tachycardia from dietary supplements
Heart attack after ephedra ingestion

Should I keep going? Because that’s not even the end of it. Calls to poison control, NG tubes, emergency dialysis, referrals to burn center, wound care, activated charcoal, code stroke, cardiac cath lab, all interventions for crack pot pseudoscience “natural medicine” that leave people disabled or dead.

So you if you’re worried about vaccines but trust that products or treatments from a completely unregulated industry are safe, you’re wrong and there’s a better chance I’ll see you in my ER because of it- BTW, big pharma loves that.

That's 90% a great post, however, I really don't think it helps the argument to pretend that there aren't, on very rare occasions, serious reactions to vaccines. That post might have won over more doubters if it had said something like "Ok, in extremely rare cases there may be a vaccine reaction, but I've seen far more of the following:" Good PR will have a better effect on people who (wrongly) fear vaccines than confrontation ever will.

CramCycle

Varta wrote: »

That's 90% a great post, however, I really don't think it helps the argument to pretend that there aren't, on very rare occasions, serious reactions to vaccines. That post might have won over more doubters if it had said something like "Ok, in extremely rare cases there may be a vaccine reaction, but I've seen far more of the following:" Good PR will have a better effect on people who (wrongly) fear vaccines than confrontation ever will.

But they are probably telling the truth, with the % of reactions and the sub populations of serious reactions, most doctors will go there entire career without seeing one I imagine. Making up something to make it sound more believable is the same issue as saying nothing bad happens ever. One wants to tell the truth, believable or not, the other wants to exaggerate or flat out lie to create a culture of fear.

Varta

CramCycle wrote: »

But they are probably telling the truth, with the % of reactions and the sub populations of serious reactions, most doctors will go there entire career without seeing one I imagine. Making up something to make it sound more believable is the same issue as saying nothing bad happens ever. One wants to tell the truth, believable or not, the other wants to exaggerate or flat out lie to create a culture of fear.

Note that the quote I created didn't involve making anything up. It is important to tell the truth but it is essential to make sure that people realise it is the truth. Increasing numbers of people are refusing to vaccinate, so it would seem that the anti-vaxxers are winning. You'll note that they are never confrontational to the general populace and they never call them stupid or use other insults. Winning people over will be far more effective that trying to batter them into submission. Note: I am not referring to those who actively promote anti-vaccination, but rather to those who are being led in the wrong direction.

Orion

kylith wrote: »

There's a reason why people in regions where these diseases are still prevalent walk miles to get their children vaccinated. They know what these diseases are like, people in the developed world have forgotten.

That's exactly true. And the ones that haven't forgotten have survivor bias - "I didn't die from measles so nobody else has" type of nonsense.

Seth Brundle

Varta wrote: »

Increasing numbers of people are refusing to vaccinate, so it would seem that the anti-vaxxers are winning.

In fairness, that's not a win! :rolleyes:
Succesfully being stupid is never a win!

Varta

Seth Brundle wrote: »

In fairness, that's not a win! :rolleyes:
Succesfully being stupid is never a win!

If you cannot see/acknowledge that it is a win for those who push an anti-vax agenda then you are blind to the obvious. But then you seem to be more concerned with having an online argument with anti-vaxxers that you are about an under-vaccinated population.

Seth Brundle

Varta wrote: »

If you cannot see/acknowledge that it is a win for those who push an anti-vax agenda then you are blind to the obvious. But then you seem to be more concerned with having an online argument with anti-vaxxers that you are about an under-vaccinated population.

If the numbers of people not immunised increases then nobody wins.

Varta

Seth Brundle wrote: »

If the numbers of people not immunised increases then nobody wins.

Wrong. The anti-vaxxers win and the unfortunate unvaccinated children lose.

Do you honestly believe that as the rate of disease increases, that the anti-vaxxers will suddenly see that they were wrong?

mountai

Igotadose ---- So putting an ice pack , is all you can offer , to those that have contracted Narcolepsy as a result of Flu Vaccine . No mabie some cream as well??.

Igotadose

mountai wrote: »

Igotadose ---- So putting an ice pack , is all you can offer , to those that have contracted Narcolepsy as a result of Flu Vaccine . No mabie some cream as well??.

FWIW, it was a FB post from a US-based medical professional. HTH your distraction about narcolepsy, which you've brought up repeatedly before. Got anything new?

Seth Brundle

Varta wrote: »

Wrong. The anti-vaxxers win and the unfortunate unvaccinated children lose.

Do you honestly believe that as the rate of disease increases, that the anti-vaxxers will suddenly see that they were wrong?

I think we're kind of saying the same thing. All unvaccinated children will suffer or risk suffering because of their parents choices and therefore they lose. But anyhow.

Varta

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I think we're kind of saying the same thing. All unvaccinated children will suffer or risk suffering because of their parents choices and therefore they lose. But anyhow.

I think we probably are. I look at parents who don't vaccinate as victims. Victims of the lies/misinformation peddled by anti-vaxxers. And I feel that it is counter productive to call them stupid. The perpetrators are those who drive the anti-vax agenda.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

DublinWriter wrote: »

Wow. Just wow. That's some Senpai level of Gasligthing right there and an insult to many families left with ill children who had an adverse reaction to HPV.

Even the States own watchdog disagree...

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/almost-650-girls-needed-medical-intervention-after-hpv-vaccine-1.3217346

You should go check Jonathan Irwin's story. His autobiography is still available and he's given plenty of interviews with Irish media.

From that report, 0.28% of girls who received the dose needed medical intervention. Many of the listed symptoms seem pretty mild. They’d need a visit to the GP - which is medical intervention - and probably passed pretty quickly. I received a vaccine for work a decade ago that left my upper arm very painful for a good week. It wasn’t particularly pleasant but it was not anything alarming either. I was told that there was a good chance it would happen. And I knew the biological reasons it was happening, with solid knowledge in that field. That symptom was far preferable to what would have happened if I had been exposed to the agent the vaccine protected against. Vaccines will sometimes give people temporary symptoms. Colour me shocked. People can easily find out what the adverse reactions might be to any given vaccine.

If I was a teenage girl, some gastrointestinal distress or fainting would be far preferable to cervical cancer treatment. Cervical cancer is quite rare but that matters not to the people diagnosed with it.

mountai

Igotadose wrote: »

FWIW, it was a FB post from a US-based medical professional. HTH your distraction about narcolepsy, which you've brought up repeatedly before. Got anything new?

So you have resorted to FB posts , next I suppose it will be You Tube !!! . I seem to remember that the "Medical Stormtroopers" on these pages , ridicule those that DARE to question their beliefs based on FB and YT sources . I have pointed out the fact that there ARE huge debilitating side effects on the HPV vaccine as well as the flu vaccine , but the "Stormtroopers" refuse to acknowledge same .

mountai

People can easily find out what the adverse reactions might be to any given vaccine.

Not if they believe its HPV related . Should you dare to question the safety of this vaccine you are labelled a "Medical Terrorist " in this country .

ancapailldorcha

mountai wrote: »

People can easily find out what the adverse reactions might be to any given vaccine.

Not if they believe its HPV related . Should you dare to question the safety of this vaccine you are labelled a "Medical Terrorist " in this country .

Have you anything to add aside from this tiresome pretense at being a victim?

ILoveYourVibes

There are places in the world were medical volunteers are murdered for providing vaccines because its against gods will. Think about that.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/25/world/asia/polio-vaccine-pakistan.html

ISLAMABAD — Two gunmen on motorcycle shot and killed a polio vaccinator in the southwestern Pakistani city of Chaman on Thursday, bringing the death toll among vaccinators working in the country’s anti-polio drive to at least three this week, officials said.

People in the west who are anti vaxers are contributing to this fear or anger at vaccination.

Igotadose

mountai wrote: »

So you have resorted to FB posts , next I suppose it will be You Tube !!! . I seem to remember that the "Medical Stormtroopers" on these pages , ridicule those that DARE to question their beliefs based on FB and YT sources . I have pointed out the fact that there ARE huge debilitating side effects on the HPV vaccine as well as the flu vaccine , but the "Stormtroopers" refuse to acknowledge same .

Just quoted a medical professional from FB. Resorted? No. Beliefs from FB? Far from it. Remember what the post was about - what this ER professional has seen as side-effects of quackery and people dying from it.

You've not pointed out any facts ever regarding vaccines as far as I can see.
You nattered on some about some pharma people you claim to know.
You're actually not very important to me and I'm not going to spend time looking through your posts.


So, if you've got facts about huge debilitating side effects of the HPV as well as the flu vaccine, feel free to post away. Unless you're posting under a couple of ID's, there are certainly people on this thread that show up, bang on about something like Gardasil is hazardous, then run away when confronted with facts.

mountai

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Have you anything to add aside from this tiresome pretense at being a victim?

I have never claimed to being a victim, but I know one . I am tired of your superioristic comments however .

GreeBo

The real problem with anti-vaxxers is that we cant just let Darwin take care of them like we can with other idiots.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

DublinWriter wrote: »

The adverse reactions listed by the government's own watchdog would disagree. Maybe read my original post.



Jonathan Irwin co-founded of the Jack and Jill foundation after retiring having made his fortune from the bloodstock industry and has a severely ill daughter after she had an averse reaction from the HPV vaccine.

Averse reactions to vaccines happen. Scientific fact.

More importantly, shame on you for beshmersing the founder of one of the most successful charities for terminally ill children in this country.

Of course they do. Very rarely. That’s common knowledge. Vaccines are about cost vs. benefit. The benefits vastly outweigh the costs. I’m chuckling at the thought of you thinking that people don’t realise that.

And your last sentence is embarrassing. He founded a charity. Very good. That isn’t a forcefield against criticism. Such emotive nonsense. I say that as a terminally ill person who - guess what? - is still very capable of being an asshole, doing wrong, hurting people. Oh and I have cancer. I’d take any vaccine and any listed adverse effect to be spared this predicament.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Varta wrote: »

That's 90% a great post, however, I really don't think it helps the argument to pretend that there aren't, on very rare occasions, serious reactions to vaccines. That post might have won over more doubters if it had said something like "Ok, in extremely rare cases there may be a vaccine reaction, but I've seen far more of the following:" Good PR will have a better effect on people who (wrongly) fear vaccines than confrontation ever will.

But seriously, who is pretending that? My degree is in this area, we were taught about adverse reactions and why and how they happen. Why do people think that this is not communicated? We were students who some of us would go on to work in vaccine development.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

mountai wrote: »

Well if you educated yourself on Mr Irwins situation you would see that he is strongly pro vaccine . Try not to be an asshole or hurt anyone , with the time you have left . It would be nice to go out in a blaze of charitable comments rather than letting people think you are a Plonker .

If a person thinks I’m a plonker for that comment, that’s somebody whose opinion means little to me.

Dohnjoe

Varta wrote: »

I really don't think it helps the argument to pretend that there aren't, on very rare occasions, serious reactions to vaccines.

Who is pretending exactly?

Every medical professional knows there are associated risks. However, since the benefits grossly outweigh the risks by orders of magnitude, vaccines are considered overwhelmingly safe.

mountai

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

But seriously, who is pretending that? My degree is in this area, we were taught about adverse reactions and why and how they happen. Why do people think that this is not communicated? We were students who some of us would go on to work in vaccine development.

The HSE pretend , no dictate , that there is no such thing as vaccine damage . See what they call parents that ask for medical assistance for children that are damaged by HPV vaccine . " Medical Terrorists" is what they label them .

" Emotional Terrorists " my bad

ancapailldorcha

mountai wrote: »

The HSE pretend , no dictate , that there is no such thing as vaccine damage . See what they call parents that ask for medical assistance for children that are damaged by HPV vaccine . " Medical Terrorists" is what they label them .

Where have they called anyone medical terrorists?

mountai

"Emotional Terrorists" my bad.