Anti-vaxxers

Howard Beale

Seth Brundle wrote: »

People do have a clear choice.
However, when some people allow their choice to be swayed by selfish pre-tend experts who have next-to-no scientific knowledge then that is a cause for concern, especially when their misinformed choice affects their children or other vulnerable people.

Who exactly has been or will be forced to take a vaccine?

More than likely the gormless terrified masses.


It will start with no air travel than no this no that til eventually you have to get it to do just about anything and 1984 will seem like a picnic in the park by then.

They would not be ramming it down your throat 24/7 if it wasn't going to be mandatory to some degree lad. Why would they need such intense propaganda if people could just say no pizz off not having it?

BTW

Still waiting on responses to the below.

Funnily enough in a thread on 'anti vaxxers' whatever the hell that is.

Not one person can tell me why

a)They don't care what the hell is injected into them like to such an extent they get angry with people for asking and


b) why would all the pharmaceutical companies make sure to indemnify themselves against prosecution if they thought it was so very safe? They would be no need to.

ancapailldorcha

Howard Beale wrote: »

More than likely the gormless terrified masses.


It will start with no air travel than no this no that til eventually you have to get it to do just about anything and 1984 will seem like a picnic in the park by then.

What is this based on? What countries are doing this?

Dohnjoe

Howard Beale wrote: »

More than likely the gormless terrified masses.

The sheeple right?

I know where this is going..

thegetawaycar

Howard Beale wrote: »

More than likely the gormless terrified masses.


It will start with no air travel than no this no that til eventually you have to get it to do just about anything and 1984 will seem like a picnic in the park by then.

They would not be ramming it down your throat 24/7 if it wasn't going to be mandatory to some degree lad. Why would they need such intense propaganda if people could just say no pizz off not having it?

BTW

Still waiting on responses to the below.

Funnily enough in a thread on 'anti vaxxers' whatever the hell that is.

Not one person can tell me why

a)They don't care what the hell is injected into them like to such an extent they get angry with people for asking and


b) why would all the pharmaceutical companies make sure to indemnify themselves against prosecution if they thought it was so very safe? They would be no need to.

I can answer a part at least 'anti vaxxers' are people that are against taking vaccinations, I would have guessed that was implied by the name.

a) I don't think anyone has said they don't care what is injected in to them, they are though willing to accept the scientific findings from the vaccination trials, and the fact they have been declared safe by the health standards boards. Many will read the studies prior to agreeing to take anything and make an informed decision

b) For the same reason companies indemnify themselves in general, as every person is different it will never be possible to say what the outcome will be for 100% of the population, this goes for every ingested item

Nobody will or should be forced to take a vaccine but the consequences of not doing so may possibly be that some private companies refuse access to use their services. The person not taking the vaccine can make an informed decision on whether the benefits of getting vaccinated outweigh the consequences, not just the health consequences. I'm sure exceptions would/could come into it but I'm not going to dive into that.

There is already places where yellow fever vaccines are required before entering.

CramCycle

Grant Stevens wrote: »

"safety of others"... Interesting. Since they're vaccinated then surely they've nothing to worry about?

As with every vaccine before, there will be some people who will not be able to get it, some people who it will not work on and some people whose immunity might be slow to kick on or quick to fade away. So yes, the safety of others. There are some immunocompromised people, certain cancer sufferers, certain medical therapies and so on that might count a person out for a few months before they can receive a vaccine.

It is quite likely if a vaccine is rolled out, it will be to healthcare workers and the elderly first, as the groups that are disproportionately affected or exposed. I don't see the likes of me who can socially distance in work, in good health for the most part being at the top of any list for it.

Also, for those of you who still don't get what immunity acts like, you still catch the disease, it just never really takes of in your body so you don't become a massive spreader but you still have it, just the chances of it spreading form you are incredibly reduced (to almost zero) and its affects on you are substantially reduced (again, to almost zero)

Seth Brundle

Howard Beale wrote: »

More than likely the gormless terrified masses.

I'm not sure who exactly you're trying to insult here but please bear in mind that those that are in faviour of vaccines included 99.9% of scientists and medics who have decades of experience.
Those against vaccines are... well... let's just say they're usually wrong! More often than not, they are not scientifically trained and source their information on vaccines from low quality websites.
Please remind me, which side of the fence are you on again?

Howard Beale wrote: »

It will start with no air travel than no this no that til eventually you have to get it to do just about anything and 1984 will seem like a picnic in the park by then.

Are private companies not allowed to set rules for who is allowed use their product?
Is anyone forcing you to take a vaccine?
Are you under the belief that all of these companies are collaborating to prevent a certain cohort of customers from using their product? Where is the benefit for, say Ryanair, to do this?

paul71

Grant Stevens wrote: »

"safety of others"... Interesting. Since they're vaccinated then surely they've nothing to worry about?

Babies too young to receive vaccines die because of disease passed on by anti vax idiots, people with immuno deficiencies who cannot receive vaccines die from diseases passed on by pro-plaguers.

Rubberchikken

You'd have to be beyond stupid to just accept the word of a government or pharmaciutal company and allow a vaccine that's barely been tested to be given enmasse.

Here, it's the same politicians that would swear black was white if it suited their agenda. Worldwide it's pharma companies that have time and time again have been exposed for various wrong doings and for whom the bottom line is always profit above all else.

Rubberchikken

Rubberchikken wrote: »

You'd have to be beyond stupid to just accept the word of a government or pharmaciutal company and allow a vaccine that's barely been tested to be given enmasse.

Here, it's the same politicians that would swear black was white if it suited their agenda. Worldwide it's pharma companies that have time and time again have been exposed for various wrong doings and for whom the bottom line is always profit above all else.

It's a good job that it takes more than just the approval of politicians and pharmaceutical companies to approve a vaccine.

~Rebel~

Rubberchikken wrote: »

You'd have to be beyond stupid to just accept the word of a government or pharmaciutal company and allow a vaccine that's barely been tested to be given enmasse.

Data is released and peer reviewed with each test, and there will be absolutely tonnes of papers on each vaccine before they're released publicly. There are plenty of excellent objective medical resources out there, like the Covid Tracking Project, that provide absolutely tonnes of information on every aspect of all of this, and are constantly updating and digging into the data. You're only going into it blind if you choose to go into it blind.

Here, it's the same politicians that would swear black was white if it suited their agenda. Worldwide it's pharma companies that have time and time again have been exposed for various wrong doings and for whom the bottom line is always profit above all else.

The pharma companies have standards to abide by, and independent review of testing. No-one is giving them free rein to send out whatever they want, everything is being testing with the same rigour as ever before. The speed comes from having the resources to run concurrent tests.

ancapailldorcha

Rubberchikken wrote: »

You'd have to be beyond stupid to just accept the word of a government or pharmaciutal company and allow a vaccine that's barely been tested to be given enmasse.

Here, it's the same politicians that would swear black was white if it suited their agenda. Worldwide it's pharma companies that have time and time again have been exposed for various wrong doings and for whom the bottom line is always profit above all else.

Not nearly as moronic as you'd have to be to take the word of internet trolls.

Pharma firms are regulated whereas the spewers of disinformation aren't remotely accountable for what they say.

astrofool

Rubberchikken wrote: »

You'd have to be beyond stupid to just accept the word of a government or pharmaciutal company and allow a vaccine that's barely been tested to be given enmasse.

Here, it's the same politicians that would swear black was white if it suited their agenda. Worldwide it's pharma companies that have time and time again have been exposed for various wrong doings and for whom the bottom line is always profit above all else.

You'd also have to be beyond stupid not to believe the science and research that goes into ensuring safety of these medicines.

The issue is that most anti-vaxxers are either grifters trying to make a buck for themselves or beyond stupid, and afraid of big words and loud noises, so a disproportionate amount of effort goes into using small words when arguing with them, hoping they don't reel off into a spiel about big pharma. It takes time and effort as most people don't realise (and even then never admit) that they were beyond stupid till they get to the other side, some even double down on their stupidity rather than admit they were wrong.

Ashbourne hoop

km991148 wrote: »

And this exact sentiment is what many really believe and I think underpins the whole cancel culture style of thinking.

Are vaccines good? - of course.
Do pharmaceutical companies have other (potentially conflicting) interests than public health? Of course.

Solution: Better control/ fix issues in medical supply
Not "Cancel vaccines".

Same applies in politics, the BBC/RTE (Defund) etc - the extreme mentality these days is nuts.



EDIT - Just realised this thread was started years ago and discussion has been all over the place since this quoted post.. :pac:

I started the initial thread 3 years ago, when covid wasn't even a thing (good times), but the issue is obviously more of a concern now.

The thing is you will never convince anti-vaxxers that they are wrong. They are so entrenched in their position that they will never change. To completely reject the idea of a vaccine before knowing anything about it is so monumentally stupid that it's beyond words. The science involved in these vaccines is incredible, really mind blowingly incredible, it's man walking on the moon stuff. To have this work dismissed by morons must be incredibly frustrating for the scientists involved. I get people should ask questions, to take this vaccine and not ask questions would be, in my opinion, stupid too, but when they are answered so clearly by people like Dr. Fauci their really shouldn't be an issue.

I've noticed over the last few years that the old saying of "it's better to stay silent and let people think I'm stupid rather than speaking and confirming it" has been forgotten. People seem to have no fear of coming out with all sorts of nonsense and will use any old ****e on Youtube etc to show that they are right.

These vaccines will allow us to get back to something resembling normality, hopefully towards the middle of next year. My concern is anti-vaxxers on social media will spread enough disinformation that will result in a low uptake. While I'm not in favour of forced covid vaccination, I do think private companies have a right to restrict use of their product as how they see fit. If you don't want to take the vaccine, fine that's your right, but you should expect that there will be some restrictions placed on you because of your decision.

COVID

Howard Beale wrote: »

More than likely the gormless terrified masses.......


.........

Curiously enough, the above two words in bold immediately spring to mind when reading any of your posts.

Howard Beale

Rubberchikken wrote: »

You'd have to be beyond stupid to just accept the word of a government or pharmaciutal company and allow a vaccine that's barely been tested to be given enmasse.

Here, it's the same politicians that would swear black was white if it suited their agenda. Worldwide it's pharma companies that have time and time again have been exposed for various wrong doings and for whom the bottom line is always profit above all else.

Wow someone else questions chemicals being injected into them when everyone else cheers it on.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/state-to-underwrite-virus-vaccine-firms-to-reassure-patients-as-uk-approves-pfizer-jab-39816668.html


Hate to say I told you so but the state underwriting all these companies should ring alarm bells in any persons head with their brain actually switched on.

What other industry has total complete state indemnity to prosecution? They must know people will drop like flies from it. Sure it will make Bill 'depopulate the World' Gates delighted awwww uncle Bill sure who wouldn't want to cheer him and his billions up eh!

Like no matter what happens to anyone who takes this crap they have no recourse to seek compensation and if it was so so so safe :rolleyes: they would be no need for this but the big boys cover their asses as usual.

Needless to say when people run out and get this crap and invariably get ill they will think maybe I can spin the wheel and bring some comfort to my misery and get compensation for the maleficence caused. No such luck.
The big boys asses are well covered and you can bet your every last cent they won't be taking it.

Ashbourne hoop

Howard Beale wrote: »

Wow someone else questions chemicals being injected into them when everyone else cheers it on.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/state-to-underwrite-virus-vaccine-firms-to-reassure-patients-as-uk-approves-pfizer-jab-39816668.html


Hate to say I told you so but the state underwriting all these companies should ring alarm bells in any persons head with their brain actually switched on.

What other industry has total complete state indemnity to prosecution? They must know people will drop like flies from it. Sure it will make Bill 'depopulate the World' Gates delighted awwww uncle Bill sure who wouldn't want to cheer him and his billions up eh!

Like no matter what happens to anyone who takes this crap they have no recourse to seek compensation and if it was so so so safe :rolleyes: they would be no need for this but the big boys cover their asses as usual.

Needless to say when people run out and get this crap and invariably get ill they will think maybe I can spin the wheel and bring some comfort to my misery and get compensation for the maleficence caused. No such luck.
The big boys asses are well covered and you can bet your every last cent they won't be taking it.

You would lose your every last cent.

Dohnjoe

Howard Beale wrote: »

Sure it will make Bill 'depopulate the World' Gates delighted awwww uncle Bill sure who wouldn't want to cheer him and his billions up eh!

The red flags just keep on coming

ohnonotgmail

Howard Beale wrote: »

Wow someone else questions chemicals being injected into them when everyone else cheers it on.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/state-to-underwrite-virus-vaccine-firms-to-reassure-patients-as-uk-approves-pfizer-jab-39816668.html


Hate to say I told you so but the state underwriting all these companies should ring alarm bells in any persons head with their brain actually switched on.

What other industry has total complete state indemnity to prosecution? They must know people will drop like flies from it. Sure it will make Bill 'depopulate the World' Gates delighted awwww uncle Bill sure who wouldn't want to cheer him and his billions up eh!

Like no matter what happens to anyone who takes this crap they have no recourse to seek compensation and if it was so so so safe :rolleyes: they would be no need for this but the big boys cover their asses as usual.

Needless to say when people run out and get this crap and invariably get ill they will think maybe I can spin the wheel and bring some comfort to my misery and get compensation for the maleficence caused. No such luck.
The big boys asses are well covered and you can bet your every last cent they won't be taking it.

what part of a state indemnity prevents people from claiming compensation for
maleficence(sic)?

storker

COVID wrote: »

Curiously enough, the above two words in bold immediately spring to mind when reading any of your posts.

Probably avoiding using "sheeple" because it's too much of a giveaway.

PHG

I always wonder about the argument, "look what's in it" or "X will poison you as it is part of the ingredients".

It is as if anti-vaxxers forget that different amounts of different compounds make up a new substance. Last time I tried to ignite the Hydrogen in water I was bitterly disappointed! The mercury example is one that is floated about a lot too but there is high levels of mercury in sushi but where is the argument and protesting to stop it....

TheSegal

The world would be such a strange place if everyone who took the vaccine died. A world of anti-vaxxers who don't believe in science, everything dictated by whats doing the rounds on youtube and twitter! All busy congratulating one another until they realise they have absolutely no idea what to do when something like smallpox or measles hits all of their unvaccinated bodies

Xtrail14

Cut the dole and that won’t be long putting these tools in order.

CramCycle

Howard Beale wrote: »

What other industry has total complete state indemnity to prosecution? They must know people will drop like flies from it. Sure it will make Bill 'depopulate the World' Gates delighted awwww uncle Bill sure who wouldn't want to cheer him and his billions up eh!

Two things here. One its pretty much standard practice in an emergency response and the EU have accepted these conditions. The government are free to say no. They will of course be delayed in access to the vaccine for months if not years.

Second, any adverse reactions of a serious nature, if they occur (none so far is my understanding, there have been adverse reactions but these fvary and none appear serious or prolonged thus far), can still bring the government to court, and also, as some seem to believe it's done on purpose, if the company was found to have known about any issue, hid it and gotten indemnity, the indemnity would be null and void as it was not completed in good faith. These are all really basic concepts. Its not a buyer beware scenario for second hand goods FFS.

storker

Dohnjoe wrote: »

The red flags just keep on coming

And evidence doesn't.

storker

thegetawaycar wrote: »

b) For the same reason companies indemnify themselves in general, as every person is different it will never be possible to say what the outcome will be for 100% of the population, this goes for every ingested item

I wonder if manufacturers' and governments' minds are even more focused on indemnification now than historically precisely because of anti-vaxxers and anticipation of stunts they might pull.

Xtrail14

Xtrail14 wrote: »

Cut the dole and that won’t be long putting these tools in order.

Might work for those that are on the dole, you'd need a special tax for those that aren't.

Hotblack Desiato

Howard Beale wrote: »

What other industry has total complete state indemnity to prosecution?

The catholic church?

They must know people will drop like flies from it.

Odd that none of the trials have shown any serious adverse reactions then isn't it?

but the truth is, like Ashbourne said,

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

The thing is you will never convince anti-vaxxers that they are wrong. They are so entrenched in their position that they will never change.

Facts, evidence or logic not only not required, but will never be considered.

Igotadose

DubInMeath wrote: »

Might work for those that are on the dole, you'd need a special tax for those that aren't.

Australia did something like this. It worked great.

https://www2.health.vic.gov.au/public-health/immunisation/vaccination-children/no-jab-no-play

No special tax needed. Just, no childcare from the gummint if your kids not vaccinated and doesn't have a medical exemption. Frankly, if a kid could get a medical exemption from vaccination it ought not to be enrolled in childcare, that's a very ill child.

ancapailldorcha

It's just so disheartening to see that all it takes to trigger so many people is to ask them for the meanest measure of consideration for other people.

Igotadose

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It's just so disheartening to see that all it takes to trigger so many people is to ask them for the meanest measure of consideration for other people.

Most anti-vaxxers, at their core, are failures and idiots. Especially the average joe-on-the-street anti-vaxxer who is frustrated with the reminders that they really aren't as successful as those advocating for vaccinations (chiefly doctors and scientists.)

They're just lashing out. Heck, their high-priest Wakefield's been struck off and is a laughingstock. They think by pretending to know something they can make up for a life of skating along stupidly without actually succeeding at anything that required diligence or intelligence.