Anti-vaxxers

Capt'n Midnight

BryanMartin21 wrote: »

Considering this is only a vulnerable person's disease, once they are vaccinated then that is the end of covid as a crisis. The cost and effort to bring in a proof of vaccine for partaking in normal society activities will be hugely disproportionate. Especially considering the time frame for getting the critical vaccinations done, we are talking only around 8 more weeks according to the Irish government.

It's true to say that vulnerable people are more at risk.

It's not true to say that everyone else is bulletproof.


So far 1 in a 1,000 in the USA have already died from it.

Multiples of that number will have life changing long term effects from Covid. Like breathing difficulties. And loosing hands and limbs.





And based on antibody tests only a fraction of the US population have been exposed so it's still early days.

CramCycle

BryanMartin21 wrote: »

You're misinterpreting the data on covid. It isn't harmful like you are trying to convey. What you want to see is not reflective of what is actually the case. But I will stick to what the government policy is, which is not in line with any of what you suggest.

I work with someone who is a virologist and actually grows it in our labs, there is plenty of data that backs up everything I have said, which bit specifically was incorrect, it is not impossible that I have misspoke.

No mandatory vaccines (via coercion with passports or vaccine passes or whatever) and getting the vulnerable and front line vaccinated removes the need for lockdowns, only requiring lighter restrictions (in the next 8 weeks that is the end of lockdown). This is the government plan.

No its not, level 2,3,4, and 5 are all different levels of lockdown. As I said, we will roll down the list as vaccination rates increase, and cases and strain on the health system as well as risk of outbreaks lowers over time.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

And based on antibody tests only a fraction of the US population have been exposed so it's still early days.

An unknown number of people who have caught Covid, showed no response at all, which initially was thought to be great (no danger to short term health) but some are showing no antibodies at all which means they could have a bad dose the next time but more importantly, they could be silent carriers, which is why they also really need to be vaccinated. Not as urgently but they do need to get it.

pgj2015

why are most foreigners here anti covid vaxers?

I have yet to meet a foreigner In Ireland who is pro covid vaccine. Especially eastern europeans, they all think the government are trying to harm them with the vaccine.

They are going around spreading rubbish about side effects of the vaccine.

BryanMartin21

CramCycle wrote: »

I work with someone who is a virologist and actually grows it in our labs, there is plenty of data that backs up everything I have said, which bit specifically was incorrect, it is not impossible that I have misspoke.

Just the numbers from the HPSC are what I mean. The biggest risk factor is clearly age, and the over 75s are most vulnerable but once you look at younger ages there is a dramatic refution in seriousness from recorded positives. Then under 45s, it seems to be pretty much of negligible concern to those people.

This is all in the context of no vaccine to date and also based on recorded positive tests but of course we likely had many multiples of this of actual infections in the last year.

This all exposes the anti-vaxxer nonsense of mandatory vaccinations or vaccines being used to suppress people or whatever they claim as covid isn't harmful enough to be so terrified of a vaccine.

Seth Brundle

pgj2015 wrote: »

why are most foreigners here anti covid vaxers?

I have yet to meet a foreigner In Ireland who is pro covid vaccine. Especially eastern europeans, they all think the government are trying to harm them with the vaccine.

They are going around spreading rubbish about side effects of the vaccine.

I work with loads of "foreigners", none of whom seem to have caught the anti-vaccine nonsense thankfully!

Seth Brundle

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I work with loads of "foreigners", none of whom seem to have caught the anti-vaccine nonsense thankfully!

Same

paul71

pgj2015 wrote: »

why are most foreigners here anti covid vaxers?

I have yet to meet a foreigner In Ireland who is pro covid vaccine. Especially eastern europeans, they all think the government are trying to harm them with the vaccine.

They are going around spreading rubbish about side effects of the vaccine.

It depends on where they are from, we tend to forget here that Czechs and Hungarians are as distinct in their views from one another as are the French and Germans or the Irish and British. I actually find the term Eastern European to be pejorative. They only thing they actually had in common was subjugation under communism which was 40 years whereas their individual cultures developed over thousands of years.

What I do know is that antivax stupidity did gain more traction in Czech then most of its neighbors, I don't know the reason for that, but it was one of the first countries in Europe to lose measles free status.

pgj2015

paul71 wrote: »

It depends on where they are from, we tend to forget here that Czechs and Hungarians are as distinct in their views from one another as are the French and Germans or the Irish and British. I actually find the term Eastern European to be pejorative. They only thing they actually had in common was subjugation under communism which was 40 years whereas their individual cultures developed over thousands of years.

What I do know is that antivax stupidity did gain more traction in Czech then most of its neighbors, I don't know the reason for that, but it was one of the first countries in Europe to lose measles free status.

Polish and romanians, mostly who seem to be anti covid vaxers.

paul71

pgj2015 wrote: »

Polish and romanians, mostly who seem to be anti covid vaxers.

It does seem to have gained some sort of traction in Romania, I don't know about Poland myself. It could be down to something as simple as 1 very loudmouthed idiot journalist in those countries, but thats just speculation on my part.

As a way to illustrate that point imagine someone of the influence and voice of Joe Duffy (I use him as an example of someone with a voice not insinuating in anyway he is antivax) preaching to Irish housewives antivax nonsense for a decade.

pgj2015

paul71 wrote: »

It does seem to have gained some sort of traction in Romania, I don't know about Poland myself. It could be down to something as simple as 1 very loudmouthed idiot journalist in those countries, but thats just speculation on my part.

As a way to illustrate that point imagine someone of the influence and voice of Joe Duffy (I use him as an example of someone with a voice not insinuating in anyway he is antivax) preaching to Irish housewives antivax nonsense for a decade.

would it be that they were brought up to distrust their governments?

silliussoddius

pgj2015 wrote: »

would it be that they were brought up to distrust their governments?

Just that they/or their parents lived under a very sh!tty totalitarian regime.

Seth Brundle

Here's a juicy story ripe for anti-vaxx manipulation: California nurse tests positive over a week after receiving Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine

Gardesana Pecher

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Here's a juicy story ripe for anti-vaxx manipulation: California nurse tests positive over a week after receiving Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine

He wasn't vaccinated. He only received the first dose.

silliussoddius

Gardesana Pecher wrote: »

He wasn't vaccinated. He only received the first dose.

That's just because they forgot the microchip.

Seth Brundle

Gardesana Pecher wrote: »

He wasn't vaccinated. He only received the first dose.

I know but wait and see but headlines like that will be used to discourage vaccine uptake by the usual suspects

Capt'n Midnight

More evidence that suggest Covid does damage to young healthy people.

Would clinical trials on a vaccine pick up a 22 in 100,000 effect ?

How would an anti-vaxxer compare that risk to a 15% possibly up to 45% effect ?


https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/college-athletes-experienced-heart-damage-after-covid-19-study-67929

Months after recovering from COVID-19, some college athletes are showing signs of heart inflammation brought on by a rare condition called myocarditis that may be linked to SARS-CoV-2 exposure, doctors reported September 11 in JAMA Cardiology.

When they imaged the hearts of more than two dozen of Ohio State University players using cardiac magnetic resonance (CMR), they found evidence of myocarditis in 15 percent, while a further 30 percent had cellular damage or swelling that could not be linked definitively to the condition.

...
myocarditis is a rare condition—affecting roughly 22 out of every 100,000 people each year—it is nevertheless a recognized cause of death among professional athletes, even in the absence of previous heart trouble.

RobertKK

pgj2015 wrote: »

Polish and romanians, mostly who seem to be anti covid vaxers.

I have Romanian friends and none are anti-Vaccination, absolutely no different than the rest of us, they want the vaccine and for life to get back to normal.

RobertKK

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02598-6

This is clearly a serious virus.

Neyite

Cabaal wrote: »

I've seen a person pass out when giving blood.

I guess giving blood is wrong and evil?
:rolleyes:

Indeed. I'm a blood donor and have never liked needles. I don't look when they put it in otherwise I get a bit freaked out. But it won't stop me from giving blood.

Igotadose

Sure as night follows day, the pharmacist that destroyed Covid-19 vaccines in the US, is an anti-vax loon:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/pharmacist-sabotaged-vaccines-thought-unsafe-police/story?id=75019776

ohnonotgmail

Igotadose wrote: »

Sure as night follows day, the pharmacist that destroyed Covid-19 vaccines in the US, is an anti-vax loon:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/pharmacist-sabotaged-vaccines-thought-unsafe-police/story?id=75019776

causation not just correlation

Rothko

How can someone be a pharmacist and be anti-vax?

TheIrishGrover

Rothko wrote: »

How can someone be a pharmacist and be anti-vax?

'Murica

TheIrishGrover

Gardesana Pecher wrote: »

He wasn't vaccinated. He only received the first dose.

Pffffft..... Facts schmacts.

Capt'n Midnight

Rothko wrote: »

How can someone be a pharmacist and be anti-vax?

when they're a harm-assist

CramCycle

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

when they're a harm-assist

Your coat is over here, by the door,.........

TheIrishGrover

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

when they're a harm-assist

Hotblack Desiato

CramCycle wrote: »

and as people many of us are great at only seeing what's in our sphere

Ironically Gemma and her Gemmaroids make a big show of being into the old time religion. They can believe in certain things that they haven't seen

biko

Igotadose wrote: »

Sure as night follows day, the pharmacist that destroyed Covid-19 vaccines in the US, is an anti-vax loon:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/pharmacist-sabotaged-vaccines-thought-unsafe-police/story?id=75019776

It's not clear if this guy is anti-vaxer in general or just this covid stuff.
I'd say he probably ok with old school vaccines but not this one.

From the article he thought Moderna "was not safe for people and could harm them and change their DNA" so he left the vials in room temp to deactivate the vaccine.

The AstraZeneca shot is a "viral vector vaccine", where a specially engineered virus that normally causes chimpanzees to get the common cold delivers genetic instructions to human cells to make the spike protein jutting out from the new coronavirus's surface.

The Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines use a new technology which packs messenger RNA (mRNA) inside tiny fat droplets to instruct cells to make the spike protein.

Tbh, we don't know enough of these vaccines to say they are the best, or even if they are perfectly safe.
They have been tested on animals and humans.
They are fairly cheap and they are first.
But as time progresses there will be others, maybe better, maybe safer.


I'm sure that pharmacist would have been fine with the Chinese CoronaVac vaccine which is pretty much just dead corona virus injected.
It's close to traditional vaccines.

silliussoddius

The changing DNA idea seems to be common with those of bloodgroup tinfoil.