Anti-vaxxers

Guy:Incognito

Orion wrote: »

It's a blood test now. No more bum finger.

Aaaaw, sorry , I mean , yaaay.

Army_of_One

Mefistofelino wrote: »

One of the less successful Bond villains.

yeah he was a bit sh1t in fairness.

endacl

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

For a brief moment my brain substituted "FG" for "Fine Gael". Cue mental images of Simon Harris administering a prostate exam :eek::pac::D

More likely to be Varadkar. He's a qualified medical professional after all.

Orion

Excellent article from David Grimes on how antivaxxers such as gar32 and Regret are causing people to die.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/anti-hpv-vaccine-myths-have-fatal-consequences-1.3213118

One eyed Jack

Orion wrote: »

Excellent article from David Grimes on how antivaxxers such as gar32 and Regret are causing people to die.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/anti-hpv-vaccine-myths-have-fatal-consequences-1.3213118

As much as I disagree with the methods used by antivaxxers, I think it's equally misleading to market the vaccine as preventing cancer, and equally misleading to suggest that antivaxxers are causing people to die.

Ashbourne hoop

Orion wrote: »

Excellent article from David Grimes on how antivaxxers such as gar32 and Regret are causing people to die.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/anti-hpv-vaccine-myths-have-fatal-consequences-1.3213118

Probably the best piece I've read on the subject.

knipex

One eyed Jack wrote: »

As much as I disagree with the methods used by antivaxxers, I think it's equally misleading to market the vaccine as preventing cancer, and equally misleading to suggest that antivaxxers are causing people to die.

I disagree.

Every child \ person in Ireland or the developed world who dies as a result of a vaccine preventable disease, every child who suffers permanent physical disability be it deafness, sterility, partial paralysis or other long term issues, every child who suffers in pain in hospital or at home, be it rib cracking bronchial spasam's or high fever does so because of the anti vaccine brigade.

That paid, that suffering and those deaths lie at their feet there is blood on their hands..

it is that simple..

And I include the broadcasters, politicians and celebs who gave oxygen and credibility to these groups..

VinLieger

One eyed Jack wrote: »

As much as I disagree with the methods used by antivaxxers, I think it's equally misleading to market the vaccine as preventing cancer, and equally misleading to suggest that antivaxxers are causing people to die.

Anti vaxxers are causing measles outbreaks in countries where the disease was close to being eradicated that is leading to deaths, it is factually accurate to say antivaxxers are causing people to die.

Dont forget the idea of a vaccines is two fold to eradicate the disease as much as possible and through herd immunity protect those among us who are unable to receive the vaccine, anyone of those people who contract measles from someone who went unvaccinated and dies is a death caused by antivaxxers.

As I mentioned previously a work colleagues child who was vaccinated caught the meaasles recently from a child in school who was unvaccinated. They could not return to work for 2+ weeks due to the high risk posed to the pregnant women and husbands of pregnant women in the office that my colleague could be a carrier and infected by her child.

Orion

One eyed Jack wrote: »

As much as I disagree with the methods used by antivaxxers, I think it's equally misleading to market the vaccine as preventing cancer, and equally misleading to suggest that antivaxxers are causing people to die.

1. It does vaccinate against a virus that causes cancer so it does prevent cancer.
2. Measles was nearly eradicated until Wakefield's fraud - now it's killing children again. Cervical cancer can be drastically reduced and it is now estimated that 40 people will die from it in Ireland alone because of antivax lies. So they are causing people to die - it's not misleading at all.

retro:electro

Orion wrote: »

Excellent article from David Grimes on how antivaxxers such as gar32 and Regret are causing people to die.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/anti-hpv-vaccine-myths-have-fatal-consequences-1.3213118

Just came here to post the same thing. Excellent article.

One eyed Jack

knipex wrote: »

I disagree.

Every child \ person in Ireland or the developed world who dies as a result of a vaccine preventable disease, every child who suffers permanent physical disability be it deafness, sterility, partial paralysis or other long term issues, every child who suffers in pain in hospital or at home, be it rib cracking bronchial spasam's or high fever does so because of the anti vaccine brigade.

That paid, that suffering and those deaths lie at their feet there is blood on their hands..

it is that simple..

And I include the broadcasters, politicians and celebs who gave oxygen and credibility to these groups..

It really isn't that simple at all IMO. You're making no allowance for the fact that people have minds of their own and will make decisions for themselves and their children regardless of the propaganda propagated by either side of the 'to vaccinate or not to vaccinate' quagmire.

VinLieger wrote: »

Anti vaxxers are causing measles outbreaks in countries where the disease was close to being eradicated that is leading to deaths, it is factually accurate to say antivaxxers are causing people to die.

It isn't. What that is though, is the same weasel-worded emotional blackmail that you rightfully point out antivaxxers use, and which causes people to be equally suspicious of both anti and pro vaxxers as to what may or may not be in their children's best interests.

I think you underestimate the fact that for most parents who have no understanding whatsoever of medicine, biology, virology, pharmacology, etc, it can be incredibly confusing, and rather than take a risk with a vaccine regarded as safe by people whom they do not trust, they're immediately inclined to err on the side of caution. Fcukall to do with antivaxxers, religious fundies, attitudes to sex and sexuality, or some wagon up in back of beyond that got released on twitter.

Dont forget the idea of a vaccines is two fold to eradicate the disease as much as possible and through herd immunity protect those among us who are unable to receive the vaccine, anyone of those people who contract measles from someone who went unvaccinated and dies is a death caused by antivaxxers.

I do understand that much, and to be perfectly honest, that's about all I understand, because while I've studied computer science and mathematics, and I work in ERP, that doesn't make me a scientist, nor does it mean I have any greater understanding of medicine, biology, virology, pharmacology, etc, because they're simply not my area of expertise. I haven't spent years studying them as some people have, any more than I studied childcare and psychology before I became a parent. Again, neither of those are my areas of expertise. If I can't trust the people whose areas of expertise these are, then we have an issue.

As I mentioned previously a work colleagues child who was vaccinated caught the meaasles recently from a child in school who was unvaccinated. They could not return to work for 2+ weeks due to the high risk posed to the pregnant women and husbands of pregnant women in the office that my colleague could be a carrier and infected by her child.

It's having to consider stories like that, and then try and relate it to my own experience where at one point my child was brought into hospital seriously ill, and doctors had no idea what was wrong with him, and it was only by chance a doctor happened to be passing by who had experience with scarlet fever that he was able to diagnose my child. There is no vaccine for scarlet fever and it was once the leading cause of the death of children in the early 20th century. It's now making a vicious comeback and scientists aren't able to explain why -

Rise in scarlet fever cases shows 49-year high, health experts say


Honestly, that scares the living shìt out of me a hell of a lot more than the risk of my child contracting HPV and the potential consequences of that. Now that I think of it, this sort of bollocks is far worse than any antivaxxer waffle -

How Our Fear of Herpes Was Invented by a Drug Company

knipex

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I think you underestimate the fact that for most parents who have no understanding whatsoever of medicine, biology, virology, pharmacology, etc, it can be incredibly confusing, and rather than take a risk with a vaccine regarded as safe by people whom they do not trust, they're immediately inclined to err on the side of caution. Fcukall to do with antivaxxers, religious fundies, attitudes to sex and sexuality, or some wagon up in back of beyond that got released on twitter.

That is the part that maddens me most.

They don't trust the people who do understand the science, why ??

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It's having to consider stories like that, and then try and relate it to my own experience where at one point my child was brought into hospital seriously ill, and doctors had no idea what was wrong with him, and it was only by chance a doctor happened to be passing by who had experience with scarlet fever that he was able to diagnose my child. There is no vaccine for scarlet fever and it was once the leading cause of the death of children in the 19th century. It's now making a vicious comeback and scientists aren't able to explain why -

Rise in scarlet fever cases shows 49-year high, health experts say


Honestly, that scares the living shìt out of me a hell of a lot more than the risk of my child contracting HPV and the potential consequences of that. Now that I think of it
]

Scarlett fever is a bacterial infection. Was always with us killed millions before the advent of antibiotics. (another wonder of medical science that's abused).

Its relatively easily treatable with antibiotics, any doctor that couldn't diagnose it or at least treat it has questions to answer.

its is on the rise but that story is an example of news that should have been written by someone with a medical or scientific background but wasn't. Its 90% hyperbole and hype..

My opinion (and its only an opinion based on anecdotal information) is that its increase is a result of the surge in antibiotic resistance.

While the bacteria causing the infection may not in its self be resistant doctors are less likely to prescribe antibiotics at the early stages of the infection (it initially presents with mild symptoms similar to a number of viral infections). In the past when antibiotics were thrown out like smarties it would have been hit earlier..

However no child should die from scarlet fever, its easily treatable and even if a doctor does not recognize the disease, (which i doubt as it was never that unusual or rare an infection) the worsened symptoms and the symptoms themselves would or should trigger the prescription of an antibiotic long before it became life threatening..

kylith

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Honestly, that scares the living shìt out of me a hell of a lot more than the risk of my child contracting HPV and the potential consequences of that. Now that I think of it, this sort of bollocks is far worse than any antivaxxer waffle -

How Our Fear of Herpes Was Invented by a Drug Company

That article is about HSV - genital herpes, which causes cold-sore like lesions, not HPV which is linked to cancers of the cervix, penis, and anus.

Anyway, we try not to pass cold sores on to people, and the virus can be dangerous for infants (child dies after contracting herpes through traditional Jewish circumcision), so exposing an infant to genital herpes during childbirth is not wanted, and limiting the spread of genital herpes is a good idea.

Jawgap

Anti-vaxxers have blood on their hands and will have blood on their hands. Just because their victims carry no names doesn't mean they don't exist, or that their lives have been wrecked.

Somewhere there are kids going unvaccinated because of the bilge they publish and publicise.

Thankfully, for the vast, vast majority of those kids there will be no consequences, or only mild ones. Most will pass unharmed through life by these eminently preventable diseases. A few will be saved by the very science and the medical establishment these deluded fools condemn in their ignorance.

But a very few will die or suffer permanent life altering injuries, and those events will be directly traceable back to people's decisions not to vaccinate on the back of "information" circulated by the anti-vaxxers. I presume their pernicious ignorance is pervasive enough that they are blind to what they have done. It must be, otherwise how could they sleep at night?

gar32

http://info.cmsri.org/hs-fs/hubfs/Vaxed%20Unvaxed%20Memes/VaxVsUnvaxed%20Survey%20Graphic-Updated.png?t=1504640089543&width=797&height=797&name=VaxVsUnvaxed%20Survey%20Graphic-Updated.png

Just as vaccine are so safe and people make lots of money from bad mouthing them

kunst nugget

gar32 wrote: »

http://info.cmsri.org/hs-fs/hubfs/Vaxed%20Unvaxed%20Memes/VaxVsUnvaxed%20Survey%20Graphic-Updated.png?t=1504640089543&width=797&height=797&name=VaxVsUnvaxed%20Survey%20Graphic-Updated.png

Just as vaccine are so safe and people make lots of money from bad mouthing them

A groundbreaking study of 'hundreds of homeschooled children'. FFS…

Sofiztikated

gar32 wrote: »

http://info.cmsri.org/hs-fs/hubfs/Vaxed%20Unvaxed%20Memes/VaxVsUnvaxed%20Survey%20Graphic-Updated.png?t=1504640089543&width=797&height=797&name=VaxVsUnvaxed%20Survey%20Graphic-Updated.png

Just as vaccine are so safe and people make lots of money from bad mouthing them

https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.com/2017/05/06/why-this-vaxed-v-unvaxed-study-is-not-valid/

EDIT: They used a chiropractor to review a epidemiology study. **** that.

Sofiztikated

kunst nugget wrote: »

A groundbreaking study of 'hundreds of homeschooled children'. FFS…

Of selected homeschooled children, and no medical detail barring asking Mammy if they were sick this year.

pitifulgod

gar32 wrote: »

http://info.cmsri.org/hs-fs/hubfs/Vaxed%20Unvaxed%20Memes/VaxVsUnvaxed%20Survey%20Graphic-Updated.png?t=1504640089543&width=797&height=797&name=VaxVsUnvaxed%20Survey%20Graphic-Updated.png

Just as vaccine are so safe and people make lots of money from bad mouthing them

Can you provide any credible information to backup your argument though? The indication is that you post and make no credible points to bolster your argument. While ignoring criticism.

Orion

gar32 wrote: »

http://info.cmsri.org/hs-fs/hubfs/Vaxed%20Unvaxed%20Memes/VaxVsUnvaxed%20Survey%20Graphic-Updated.png?t=1504640089543&width=797&height=797&name=VaxVsUnvaxed%20Survey%20Graphic-Updated.png

Just as vaccine are so safe and people make lots of money from bad mouthing them

You're not antivax but vaccines cause autism yes?

Any chance of a source for those completely made up figures you posted an uncredited image to? Or is it just another one of your fantasies?

Orion

pitifulgod wrote: »

The indication is that you post and make no credible points to bolster your argument. While ignoring criticism.

You've just described all antivaxxers tbh. Try criticising Regret on Twitter. Or Jonathan Irwin - I've been blocked by both and by Jack and Jill's official account too. Last time I'm supporting that charity while that clown has any involvement with it.

knipex

gar32 wrote: »

http://info.cmsri.org/hs-fs/hubfs/Vaxed%20Unvaxed%20Memes/VaxVsUnvaxed%20Survey%20Graphic-Updated.png?t=1504640089543&width=797&height=797&name=VaxVsUnvaxed%20Survey%20Graphic-Updated.png

Just as vaccine are so safe and people make lots of money from bad mouthing them

1 that's not a study its a slide, a graph a picture without a single reference. It doesn't even reference let alone give data from the "ground breaking study"


A study base of "hundreds" is not a valid sample size.. There are multiple studies looking at millions of kids proving safety.. MILLIONS of kids..


Japan stopped the MMR vaccine, there was no reduction in Autism, its actually increasing... However there was and is a massive increase in vaccine preventable diseases..

Why do you continue to pedal the same nonsense ?? Link to studies that don't say what you claim they say, link to fancy pictures as if they were quantifiable data that supported your argument ??

How can you claim that the reduction in once common diseases are due to clean living ? With perhaps some slight help from vaccines ?

How can you continue to ignore logical reasoned scientific proof that you are wrong ??

Who do you continue to do all that and still claim not to be ant vaccination ??

Sofiztikated

Professor Shaw that coauthored that "study" just happened to receive $900,000 via his website from the Dwoskin Family Foundation.

Now researchers do get funding from all sorts of places, but combining it with flawed methodology and bias before starting the study, their "outcome" isn't surprising.

Oh, and it was in a paid for publish journal? Legitimate studies, even if they go against the common view, don't need to go to a paid for publish journal. I could put together a "Farting gives you Wolverine Healing Abilities" study, and put it in that paid journal.

It's good to be skeptical, but you're not being skeptical, you're being very naive.

Mr. CooL ICE

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

Mod:

gar32, please engage in actual debate. Quit the soapboxing

gar32 wrote: »

http://info.cmsri.org/hs-fs/hubfs/Vaxed%20Unvaxed%20Memes/VaxVsUnvaxed%20Survey%20Graphic-Updated.png?t=1504640089543&width=797&height=797&name=VaxVsUnvaxed%20Survey%20Graphic-Updated.png

Just as vaccine are so safe and people make lots of money from bad mouthing them

Mod: gar32, do not post in this thread again

Everyone else, stop responding to him

Chiparus

In the US vaccination is compulsory but there is a compensation scheme for those that suffer adverse effects.

Perhaps we should have this here?

Sofiztikated

Chiparus wrote: »

In the US vaccination is compulsory but there is a compensation scheme for those that suffer adverse effects.

Perhaps we should have this here?

Because that wouldn't be wide open to abuse at all.

If it does go ahead, I wonder could I claim for the swine flu jab causing me to have bladder stones? I mean, I didn't present with symptoms until after I had the jab years ago, ergo, swine flu jab gave me bladder stones.

Chiparus

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Because that wouldn't be wide open to abuse at all.

If it does go ahead, I wonder could I claim for the swine flu jab causing me to have bladder stones? I mean, I didn't present with symptoms until after I had the jab years ago, ergo, swine flu jab gave me bladder stones.

No, it wouldn't be open to abuse, there would be strictly defined criteria.

https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/vaccineinjurytable.pdf

Jawgap

Chiparus wrote: »

In the US vaccination is compulsory but there is a compensation scheme for those that suffer adverse effects.

Perhaps we should have this here?

As someone who is married to a solicitor and who has many friends in the legal profession, can I just say this is an excellent idea

Sofiztikated

Chiparus wrote: »

No, it wouldn't be open to abuse, there would be strictly defined criteria.

https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/vaccineinjurytable.pdf

Just had a quick goo at it, and it covers for allergic reaction, fainting and ****ing up your shoulder when receiving the HPV.

Covers **** all of the extras that people are claiming it does.

Compo culture is bad enough, without giving people raise to claims because little Jessica feels a bit woozy after getting it.

I am open to someone with a bit more knowledge schooling me a bit though.

Chiparus

Jawgap wrote: »

As someone who is married to a solicitor and who has many friends in the legal profession, can I just say this is an excellent idea

It was recommended previously .

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=16456

and recently it has been looked at again.

http://www.thejournal.ie/vaccination-compo-scheme-3535968-Aug2017/