Anti-vaxxers

Igotadose

astrofool wrote: »

Simpons bear patrol best summed it up:
Quimby: Are these morons getting dumber or just louder?
Aide: Dumber, Sir.

And now, they have Facebook! More gullible, too, whatever *did* happen to good old cynicism

Cupatae

Call me Al wrote: »

The key word there is legitimate.

But as we all know so many people give credence to simplistic and or misleading articles often of questionable provenance they may have read, written by Mr/Dr?.unknown, but which intrinsically appeals to a bias the person may already have (consciously or otherwise).

And that in their eyes becomes legitimate.

Well i dont really know enough about vaccines and the ins and outs of em to debate that, but id imagine there are some vaccines with legitimate concerns out there..

I do think though that random studies from "Dr.Unknown" and hyperbolic media do tend to muddy the water alot

VicMackey1

astrofool wrote: »

At the time, people were panicking due to Swine flu and thought the world was going to end, so when the vaccine was available, it should have been made clear that the level of testing was less than other vaccines (I knew this and still got it), but because it wasn't made clear (and I mean shout it, yellow warning labels etc.) people use it as a stick to beat the entire industry.

How did you know that the level of testing was less than other vaccines? Information leaflets from the HSE at that time claimed that the vaccine was fully tested!

VicMackey1

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

The Influenza virus mutates but the vaccine is produced in the same manner annually. This is why it was able to be made so quickly.

This is an interesting letter from the IMB to the Chief Medical Officer. It states "It is important to recognise that currently available clinical and non-clinical data relates solely to studies involving the H5N1 mock-up vaccines and these mock-up vaccines were stand-alone applications relating to 'new' vaccines and not necessarily developed in a similar manner to seasonal flu vaccines.


Link

dexter_morgan

VicMackey1 wrote: »

This is an interesting letter from the IMB to the Chief Medical Officer. It states "It is important to recognise that currently available clinical and non-clinical data relates solely to studies involving the H5N1 mock-up vaccines and these mock-up vaccines were stand-alone applications relating to 'new' vaccines and not necessarily developed in a similar manner to seasonal flu vaccines.


Link

That's going to be a pretty damaging letter to the HSEs defence of the cases against them. The public vaccination also doubled as the vaccine trial it seems. In fairness they handled it poorly.

A fitting quote that I read lately "openness and clarity are the enemies of vaccine hesitancy. Non response and obfuscation are gifts to those who are ideologically apposed to vaccines and their use"

dexter_morgan

Self Spreading Vaccines

If these ever become a reality, the anti vaxxers may not be able to avoid vaccination!

Orion

VicMackey1 wrote: »

This is an interesting letter from the IMB to the Chief Medical Officer. It states "It is important to recognise that currently available clinical and non-clinical data relates solely to studies involving the H5N1 mock-up vaccines and these mock-up vaccines were stand-alone applications relating to 'new' vaccines and not necessarily developed in a similar manner to seasonal flu vaccines.


Link

As soon as I saw Clare Daly's name I automatically switched off. She's worse than the Regret and the other antivaxxers - she gives them credibility by bringing their nonsense to the Dail.

VicMackey1

I don't particularly like Claire Daly myself. In fact, I hate most of what comes out of her mouth. It is the only place where I could find a copy of the letter between the IMB and the CMO. That letter is genuine and just because she posted it on her site is no reason to dismiss it.

dexter_morgan

Orion wrote: »

As soon as I saw Clare Daly's name I automatically switched off. She's worse than the Regret and the other antivaxxers - she gives them credibility by bringing their nonsense to the Dail.

You could at least try to read the letter before dismissing it entirely! It is stamped by the dept of health! Switching off automatically is just pure ignorance.

Graces7

dexter_morgan wrote: »

You could at least try to read the letter before dismissing it entirely! It is stamped by the dept of health! Switching off automatically is just pure ignorance.

None so blind...

WinnyThePoo

None so stupidly blind like the anti vaxxers.

Guy:Incognito

Graces7 wrote: »

None so blind...

The questions about your post don't disappear just because you wait and hope they'll be buried by other posts before you jump back in with another short snippy post.

REXER

Igotadose wrote: »

Scorn is good sometimes. Family decisions that are *impactful of the rest of the population*, like the *decision* not to vaccinate, should be scorned. It's the epitome of selfishness to do otherwise.

And there's skepticism (scientific analysis applied to claims), and 'facebook hun' skepticism (the lad down the pub knew a bloke whose first cousin.....) or, "Someone with seemingly legitimate credentials that actually is completely unqualified to say this, said blah which I really really want to believe"

As for adverse reactions, you can get adverse reactions to bee stings. Is this a reason to exterminate any bees living nearby, cut down and pave any habitat they might have, and spray widely with neocontinoids. I'd actually like you to answer this question, Grace, as I know it hits close to home with you. Keeping and helping bees is good, but what about adverse reactions to bee stings?

It seems to me that this would be a good reason to avoid bees as much as possible and then to also make sure that any medicines you expose yourself to don't have any links to bee sting venom! Oh and also don't listen to any propaganda that states bee stings won't harm you.

What on earth ever happened to "First do no harm".

Guy:Incognito

REXER wrote: »

What on earth ever happened to "First do no harm".

Telling yourself a doctor is trying to do you harm doesnt make it true.

dexter_morgan

REXER wrote: »

What on earth ever happened to "First do no harm".

It is not possible with any treatment to guarantee 100% that there will be no harm. It would be silly to avoid treatment because of this. Child goes to doctor with appendicitis. Doc can't operate because there is a tiny chance of complications. Doc can't give antibiotics because the child might have a negative reaction. Child dies. The same happens with non vaccination except it is the parents who are doing the killing.

Capt'n Midnight

dexter_morgan wrote: »

Child dies. The same happens with non vaccination except it is the parents who are doing the killing.

If the only person who died was the child it won't be so bad

But what happens is the the child infects others and so the disease survives to infect future generations.

Anyone who is seriously anti-vax rather than just a me feinner would happily take part in a program to eradicate a disease.

alaimacerc

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The questions about your post don't disappear just because you wait and hope they'll be buried by other posts before you jump back in with another short snippy post.

Isn't what you're describing basically Soapboxing, which is supposed to be Banned and Illegal in these parts?

alaimacerc

Graces7 wrote: »

All is not OK re the flu vaccine or others. There are adverse reactions. And they can be bad, worse than flu.

"A TOTAL OF 102 people have died from flu between October 2017 and February 2018, according to figures from the Health Protection Surveillance Centre (HPSC)."


I'm assuming you'll now be giving us cast-iron, copper-bottomed, tin-lidded figures for more than 102 deaths from "adverse reactions" in a similar period.

Or maybe some reaction that's "worse than death", per some Gothic novel?

dexter_morgan

alaimacerc wrote: »

"A TOTAL OF 102 people have died from flu between October 2017 and February 2018, according to figures from the Health Protection Surveillance Centre (HPSC)."


I'm assuming you'll now be giving us cast-iron, copper-bottomed, tin-lidded figures for more than 102 deaths from "adverse reactions" in a similar period.

Or maybe some reaction that's "worse than death", per some Gothic novel?

There is a rare side effect of the flu vaccine that the evil scientists and doctors are not telling you about. Eternity in purgatory!

enfant terrible

alaimacerc wrote: »

"A TOTAL OF 102 people have died from flu between October 2017 and February 2018, according to figures from the Health Protection Surveillance Centre (HPSC)."


I'm assuming you'll now be giving us cast-iron, copper-bottomed, tin-lidded figures for more than 102 deaths from "adverse reactions" in a similar period.

Or maybe some reaction that's "worse than death", per some Gothic novel?

Our workplace are offering free flu vaccines, would you get it if you are not in any of the at-risk groups?

alaimacerc

enfant terrible wrote: »

Our workplace are offering free flu vaccines, would you get it if you are not in any of the at-risk groups?

Sure. (And I'm not, btw,)

Igotadose

REXER wrote: »

It seems to me that this would be a good reason to avoid bees as much as possible and then to also make sure that any medicines you expose yourself to don't have any links to bee sting venom! Oh and also don't listen to any propaganda that states bee stings won't harm you.

What on earth ever happened to "First do no harm".

It's about 42/year dying due to stings (bees, wasps) in the US, from https://www.elsevier.com/about/press-releases/research-and-journals/number-of-people-killed-by-animals-each-year-in-the-us-remains-unchanged

The questions were for Grace, who is of the OPINION that vaccines are bad because there might be bad reactions. I brought up bees as bee stings have bad reactions and asked whether society should take active measures (spraying, removing habitat) because of the potential bad reaction, just following through on the (cough) logical conclusion to Grace's fallacy about bad reactions to vaccines. Life is full of things that might have bad reactions, and we manage appropriately.

Martina1991

What's the story with Regret.ie?

It's hard to know if the so called testimonies on that page are real or fabricated.

They have report by HPRA listing the adverse reactions from 01/01/2010 to 31/12/2017.
But there are so many things listed as an "adverse reaction" its ridiculous and can all can be found in the general population anyway.

Some of the reactions include sneezing, coughing, drooling, mood swings, apathy, disturbance in social behavior, headaches etc etc etc. It even lists genetic disorders. I mean how can you blame a genetic disorder on a vaccine?!

Under "Research" they include:
* A BT Young Scientist research project which was a survey of parental attitudes in the North-West towards the HPV Vaccine.
* A youtube video that no longer exists
* An account from a Danish mother describing her daughters reaction
* Another youtube video by Dr. Suzanne Humphries (a homeopath)
* An article from an american radio host........etc.......etc..........etc

Why do people go against the wealth of scientific knowledge out there and believe the minority of unqualified voices that haven't a clue.

Guy:Incognito

Martina1991 wrote: »

.

They have report by HPRA listing the adverse reactions from 01/01/2010 to 31/12/2017.
But there are so many things listed as an "adverse reaction" its ridiculous and can all can be found in the general population anyway.

Some of the reactions include sneezing, coughing, drooling, mood swings, apathy, disturbance in social behavior, headaches etc etc etc. It even lists genetic disorders. I mean how can you blame a genetic disorder on a vaccine?!

.

Everything that happened to the person on the trial will be listed. At some stage "may be involved in commercial aircraft crash" will probably be listed in these long winded side effects when some passenger dies in an plane crash

dexter_morgan

Martina1991 wrote: »

Why do people go against the wealth of scientific knowledge out there and believe the minority of unqualified voices that haven't a clue.

Some of them just want to go against the general consensus to separate themselves from the majority. It gives them a superiority complex.

Some of them are just idiots. It is much easier for an idiot to understand anecdotal evidence than empirical scientific evidence.

Some have a problem with authority and don't like to be told what they should do!

Orion

Martina1991 wrote: »

What's the story with Regret.ie?

It's hard to know if the so called testimonies on that page are real or fabricated.

They have report by HPRA listing the adverse reactions from 01/01/2010 to 31/12/2017.
But there are so many things listed as an "adverse reaction" its ridiculous and can all can be found in the general population anyway.

Some of the reactions include sneezing, coughing, drooling, mood swings, apathy, disturbance in social behavior, headaches etc etc etc. It even lists genetic disorders. I mean how can you blame a genetic disorder on a vaccine?!

Under "Research" they include:
* A BT Young Scientist research project which was a survey of parental attitudes in the North-West towards the HPV Vaccine.
* A youtube video that no longer exists
* An account from a Danish mother describing her daughters reaction
* Another youtube video by Dr. Suzanne Humphries (a homeopath)
* An article from an american radio host........etc.......etc..........etc

Why do people go against the wealth of scientific knowledge out there and believe the minority of unqualified voices that haven't a clue.

Regret were founded by a well known antivaxxer Catherine Weitbrecht who's homeopath husband "treated" the girls in regret making upwards of €70k from them.

Now led by another homeopath, antivaxxer Roma Rossborough who is part of the group Vaxxed - they support Wakefield's lies and brought his film to the Tivoli. Other notable members are Kiva Murphy - rabid antivaxxer - and Anna Cannon - abusive antivaxxer.

They have ties to Sanevax - a US antivax site with strong links to evangelistic groups who preach abstinence to protect from HPV.

They have refused to engage with the HSE and claim they have 450/550/650 (depends on the day) girls on suicide watch but have offered no proof of this.

They have not provided any scientific or medical evidence for any of their claims. Ever.

I'm not disputing that some girls who's parents have joined Regret are sick. I'm sure they are. But their most common illness is Chronic Fatigue Syndrome which occurs at exactly the same rate in unvaccinated girls as in vaccinated.

They fundraised 10s of 000s which has disappeared. They claimed to be a charity and are under investigation by the CRO.

In short Regret are an unreliable source at best - frauds at worst.

Graces7

Orion wrote: »

Regret were founded by a well known antivaxxer Catherine Weitbrecht who's homeopath husband "treated" the girls in regret making upwards of €70k from them.

Now led by another homeopath, antivaxxer Roma Rossborough who is part of the group Vaxxed - they support Wakefield's lies and brought his film to the Tivoli. Other notable members are Kiva Murphy - rabid antivaxxer - and Anna Cannon - abusive antivaxxer.

They have ties to Sanevax - a US antivax site with strong links to evangelistic groups who preach abstinence to protect from HPV.

They have refused to engage with the HSE and claim they have 450/550/650 (depends on the day) girls on suicide watch but have offered no proof of this.

They have not provided any scientific or medical evidence for any of their claims. Ever.

I'm not disputing that some girls who's parents have joined Regret are sick. I'm sure they are. But their most common illness is Chronic Fatigue Syndrome which occurs at exactly the same rate in unvaccinated girls as in vaccinated.

They fundraised 10s of 000s which has disappeared. They claimed to be a charity and are under investigation by the CRO.

In short Regret are an unreliable source at best - frauds at worst.

This post is full of provable .. virulent factual inaccuraries

really not worth the bothering any more. yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn!

Graces7

Igotadose wrote: »

It's about 42/year dying due to stings (bees, wasps) in the US, from https://www.elsevier.com/about/press-releases/research-and-journals/number-of-people-killed-by-animals-each-year-in-the-us-remains-unchanged

The questions were for Grace, who is of the OPINION that vaccines are bad because there might be bad reactions. I brought up bees as bee stings have bad reactions and asked whether society should take active measures (spraying, removing habitat) because of the potential bad reaction, just following through on the (cough) logical conclusion to Grace's fallacy about bad reactions to vaccines. Life is full of things that might have bad reactions, and we manage appropriately.

Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn....

sullivlo

Graces7 wrote: »

This post is full of provable .. virulent factual inaccuraries

really not worth the bothering any more. yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn!

Can you please respond to the questions that I asked you previously, rather than trying to dispute others posts.

You’re frankly ridiculous at this stage.

Orion

Graces7 wrote: »

This post is full of provable .. virulent factual inaccuraries

really not worth the bothering any more. yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn!

Name one. Everything I posted is accurate.

Graces7

have a lovely day... I mean that,, blessings and peace

Orion

Graces7 wrote: »

have a lovely day... I mean that,, blessings and peace

So you can't point out a single inaccuracy. Didn't think so.

ancapailldorcha

Graces7 wrote: »

This post is full of provable .. virulent factual inaccuraries

really not worth the bothering any more. yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn!

Graces7 wrote: »

Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn....

Graces7 wrote: »

have a lovely day... I mean that,, blessings and peace

Frankly Graces, you're coming across as being really hateful and lazy. You're trivializing the suffering and dying of children just for.... well, I don't know. Is it to make yourself look smart or for your ego? Is it because of the Catholic Church's perverse obsession with suffering? It's disgusting.

Dr Brown

Orion wrote: »

So you can't point out a single inaccuracy. Didn't think so.

I think she means that the HPV Vaccine injured girls have a lot more wrong with them than Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.


The HSE tried to shoe horn them all into the CFS diagnosis.

rawn

Orion wrote: »

Graces7 wrote: »

This post is full of provable .. virulent factual inaccuraries

really not worth the bothering any more. yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn!

Name one. Everything I posted is accurate.

I would love to see some links to this info!

ancapailldorcha

Dr Brown wrote: »

I think she means that the HPV Vaccine injured girls have a lot more wrong with them than Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.


The HSE tried to shoe horn them all into the CFS diagnosis.

I think she means that she just doesn't give a ****. If girls get HPV then it serves them right for daring to have sex.

dr.fuzzenstein

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Frankly Graces, you're coming across as being really hateful and lazy. You're trivializing the suffering and dying of children just for.... well, I don't know. Is it to make yourself look smart or for your ego? Is it because of the Catholic Church's perverse obsession with suffering? It's disgusting.

And the rest was silence...

Orion

Dr Brown wrote: »

I think she means that the HPV Vaccine injured girls have a lot more wrong with them than Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.


The HSE tried to shoe horn them all into the CFS diagnosis.

No they didn't. Regret refused to give the HSE any information. They say themselves that most of them are suffering from CFS.

Orion

rawn wrote: »

I would love to see some links to this info!

Susan Mitchell wrote an article in the SBP about them in Nov 2016.
https://www.businesspost.ie/health-social/regret-uncovered-370950 (paywalled) but I have a PDF of it.

To date they have still not answered any of the questions she asked them.
https://twitter.com/susmitchellSBP/status/1033779531344228352

Weitbrecht the antivaxxer. She was also part of the Brought Vaxxed to Ireland group along with Roma the homeopath.


Re: links to Sanevax. Kiva Murphy has tweeted references to that site - she deleted them when I pointed them out so here's a screenshot.

Also Regret.ie was registered by a Martin Healy who also registered comelook.org. Comelook site contains many links to Sanevax and Justin Healy is a regular contributer to Sanevax site. Both have links back to Regret's site too.

rawn

Orion wrote: »

rawn wrote: »

I would love to see some links to this info!

Susan Mitchell wrote an article in the SBP about them in Nov 2016.
https://www.businesspost.ie/health-social/regret-uncovered-370950 (paywalled) but I have a PDF of it.

To date they have still not answered any of the questions she asked them.
https://twitter.com/susmitchellSBP/status/1033779531344228352

Weitbrecht the antivaxxer. She was also part of the Brought Vaxxed to Ireland group along with Roma the homeopath.


Re: links to Sanevax. Kiva Murphy has tweeted references to that site - she deleted them when I pointed them out so here's a screenshot.

Also Regret.ie was registered by a Martin Healy who also registered comelook.org. Comelook site contains many links to Sanevax and Justin Healy is a regular contributer to Sanevax site. Both have links back to Regret's site too.

Excellent, thank you!

Igotadose

US reports first child death due to influenza this season. Child was unvaccinated. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/unvaccinated-child-from-florida-first-death-flu-season/?fbclid=IwAR1pvIZCUyq5u_rWetssCwD6Gw1izj2UbJy0d0BwC0nsYPl7hokgph7XPUs

FWIW, Flu vaccine's available now in Ireland. Already got my jab. This year's vaccine is supposedly going to be a good one vs. the flu, some years are better than others.

Ipso

Orion wrote: »

Susan Mitchell wrote an article in the SBP about them in Nov 2016.
https://www.businesspost.ie/health-social/regret-uncovered-370950 (paywalled) but I have a PDF of it.

To date they have still not answered any of the questions she asked them.
https://twitter.com/susmitchellSBP/status/1033779531344228352

Weitbrecht the antivaxxer. She was also part of the Brought Vaxxed to Ireland group along with Roma the homeopath.


Re: links to Sanevax. Kiva Murphy has tweeted references to that site - she deleted them when I pointed them out so here's a screenshot.

Also Regret.ie was registered by a Martin Healy who also registered comelook.org. Comelook site contains many links to Sanevax and Justin Healy is a regular contributer to Sanevax site. Both have links back to Regret's site too.

Her husband is a homeopath, you could say her arguments hold water.

Igotadose

Ipso wrote: »

Her husband is a homeopath, you could say her arguments hold water.

Always remember that at best, the kids life'll be miserable while going through these diseases, and at worst, death and permanent disability can occur.

https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/01/growing-up-unvaccinated-a-healthy-lifestyle-couldnt-prevent-many-childhood-illnesses.html

Grayson

Ipso wrote: »

Her husband is a homeopath, you could say her arguments hold water.

He's her backup. I case she gets thirsty or has low blood sugar.

Dan Jaman

'Tis a pity we can't vaccinate against stupidity.

sullivlo

Dan Jaman wrote: »

'Tis a pity we can't vaccinate against stupidity.

The people who need it, wouldn’t get it.

Igotadose

Vaccine rates up in California after the 'no objections to vaccines' law passed, and got through the legal challenges. Medical exemptions unfortunately are are up, too, as the law didn't address those. Unscrupulous doctors are selling exemptions to dumbsh1t parents requesting them - the Dr. in question just does it for the money, might not even be the pediatrician to the child involved. And, thought not mentioned in the article, in the PPACA world, that exemption becomes part of the child's permanent record, so if your fradulent doctor's exemption says "due to autoimmune issues," that'll follow that child the rest of its life. California's looking into doing 'something' about medical exemptions, maybe instituting a tight review process.

Ireland should consider something like this bill: https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/medical-exemptions-vaccines-california-sb277/

Capt'n Midnight

Rubella disease eliminated in Australia

f it could be eradicated globally then no one would ever need to take the full MMR vaccine ever again.

sullivlo

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-45990874

“People who believe anti-vax information on social media are wrong”

VinLieger

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Rubella disease eliminated in Australia

f it could be eradicated globally then no one would ever need to take the full MMR vaccine ever again.

LOL love the irony of anti-vaxxers ultimately fighting against use needing less vaccines