Anti-vaxxers

Carol25

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

Your impression is completely wrong. The amount of research, regulation and checks is staggering to be honest.

I’m glad to hear that. But the sceptic in me hears of these companies wine and dine our HSE staff, doctors, consultants and anyone with influence over health policy...they’re number 1 goal is for profit. How can we be guaranteed they wouldn’t cover up side effects in such a situation.

ancapailldorcha

Carol25 wrote: »

Excuse me I’m not name calling anyone? Point out where, who and quote who I name called because I didn’t?
And was anyone called to account for calling me a ‘fruit bag’? I have to wonder how some people get to moderate on boards. I’m called a name and insulted for making a fair and valid point, and I’m name calling?
You’re not trying to silence me by any chance...

You called anyone not an anti-vaxxer sheep earlier.

I'm not moderating this thread as I am posting in it. I suggest you report the posts in question.

Carol25

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

You are aware that the mere use of the phrase "Big Pharma" in anti vax rant is kind of a red flag that the views are as far from scientific reality as I am from Mars ?

I understand that this term has become a favourite of the completely against any vaccines at all crowd which I do not agree with. However I just do not have the time to keep typing out major multinational pharmaceutical companies, or whatever they’re supposed to be called.

Igotadose

Carol25 wrote: »

I understand that this term has become a favourite of the completely against any vaccines at all crowd which I do not agree with. However I just do not have the time to keep typing out major multinational pharmaceutical companies, or whatever they’re supposed to be called.

Pharmaceutical companies, or Pharmaceuticals, works. We'll understand the reference.

VinLieger

Carol25 wrote: »

I understand that this term has become a favourite of the completely against any vaccines at all crowd which I do not agree with. However I just do not have the time to keep typing out major multinational pharmaceutical companies, or whatever they’re supposed to be called.

It probably became a favorite of that crowd as it was basically created by them, anyone who uses it is simply signalling their membership in that club and your excuse is preposterous

Orion

Carol25 wrote: »

I agree with a lot of what you say but despite all the good these companies do, I get the impression they’re largely unregulated and unchecked.

It's probably the most regulated and checked industry on the planet.

Dan Jaman

VinLieger wrote: »

It probably became a favorite of that crowd as it was basically created by them, anyone who uses it is simply signalling their membership in that club and your excuse is preposterous

I beg to differ. I frequently refer to Big Pharma just for shorting purposes, and I don't have an axe to grind with them really. I'd use the initialisation BP, but that's taken, and may cause confusion.

blanch152

Carol25 wrote: »

Ireland needs to mandate vaccination. Moral objections are lies.
That is one scary statement just there...who are you to tell others what to do.
If Vaccines become mandatory, parents shouldn’t have to sign forms when they’re about to inject their small babies with 6 different samples of diseases in one leg and another 1 or 2 in the other effectively letting State and Big Pharma off the hook regarding the safety and effectiveness of the vaccine, I find that ridiculous. The state should take responsibility for the safety and suitability of vaccines for all.
People have genuine concerns about the HPV vaccine...is that to be dismissed because money and power bought the investigations and outcomes In the EU?
Stop making all people out to be ‘loopy anti Vaaxers’. I’ve had myself and my kids vaccinated but I do share some concerns
For your information, I once witnessed a group of Junior Infants in 2015 getting their MMR boosters in Dec 2015. At least 10-12 in the class were extremely sick after it. Out for days, some for a whole week. Do you think that’s acceptable? Do you think that shouldn’t be investigated?

Big Pharma yeah.

https://www.scarymommy.com/nurse-moms-epic-big-pharma-rant-goes-viral/

So I think this nurse is right, anyone who refuses vaccination because of "Big Pharma" should be denied access for themselves and their children to all the other products of Big Pharma. No more antibiotics, no more stents, no more cancer drugs etc.

blanch152

Carol25 wrote: »

As I already stated I’m not a professional involved in this field who’s peer reviewing vaccines, I’m just a normal layperson questioning what’s being shoved down our throats by some on here...
Should I accept these studies without question? As I said I wasn’t heavily invested in this debate until a couple of posts on here mentioned how we should make vaccines mandatory.
If these vaccines are so well checked and safe, why do I have to sign a form absolving these companies of all responsibility re what happens to my child following a vaccine? I tolerated this practice with unease prior to this. But if vaccines would no longer be a choice then why would we have to accept such responsibilities if all these peer reviews and pharmaceutical companies are so fantastic at safety checks.
And let’s not kid ourselves, if one of us was unlucky enough that our child had an adverse reaction to a vaccine, how on earth would they prove it? Are people here seriously suggesting the government or pharmaceutical companies wouldn’t try and bury such a case as it goes against their narrative? What leg would a parent have to stand on having signed prior consent form?

Here is an idea. Let people not take the HPV vaccine. But if they get cervical cancer, let them pay for their treatment in full.

Only those who are vaccinated and get a different variant should be treated.

blanch152

Carol25 wrote: »

I understand that this term has become a favourite of the completely against any vaccines at all crowd which I do not agree with. However I just do not have the time to keep typing out major multinational pharmaceutical companies, or whatever they’re supposed to be called.

No, but you seem to have the time to keep typing out anti-vaxxer nonsense.

https://thestir.cafemom.com/parenting_news/213349/poster-about-getting-kids-vaccinated

This poster should explain it all to you.

When your daughter gets rubella when pregnant, how are you going to explain that you chose to leave her at risk?

What will you say when she calls you and tells you she has cervical cancer, because you decided that she wouldn't need the HPV vaccine?

Do you think that your organic home-cooked food was enough to protect them?

I actually feel very sorry for anti-vaxxers like you, because sooner or later you are going to have to deal with one of these situations.

But hey, just blame "Big Pharma".

Faugheen

I love the way people are suggesting the Big Pharma are bribing the HSE to allow untested and unregulated products into the market.

I mean, if it was a property developer I could understand concerns, but these companies design products which are built to save lives for Christ’s sake.

Anti-vaxxers are the worst kind of people.

Rubberchikken

oh heres one - let people make up their own minds. lets be very cynical about pharmaceutical companies, governments, in fact anyone who talks down to us and just expects is to go along with their 'advice'.

Faugheen

Rubberchikken wrote: »

oh heres one - let people make up their own minds. lets be very cynical about pharmaceutical companies, governments, in fact anyone who talks down to us and just expects is to go along with their 'advice'.

Dont vaccinate your child if you don’t want to.

However, don’t go whinging to the Health Service if your child picks up something that could have been avoided by vaccination.

ohnonotgmail

Rubberchikken wrote: »

oh heres one - let people make up their own minds. lets be very cynical about pharmaceutical companies, governments, in fact anyone who talks down to us and just expects is to go along with their 'advice'.

Faugheen wrote: »

Dont vaccinate your child if you don’t want to.

However, don’t go whinging to the Health Service if your child picks up something that could have been avoided by vaccination.

and dont go whinging because your little incubator is excluded from certain activities

Igotadose

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and dont go whinging because your little incubator is excluded from certain activities

No!

That puts *our* lives and health at risk. I could care less about what some anti-vax nutter does with their own children, it's *my* health and *other peoples* health that matters.

No jab, no child benefits, no school benefits, less tax relief, no dole, nothing. Your kid will cost the state more because of the avoidable illnesses it'll contract, and spread.

ohnonotgmail

Igotadose wrote: »

No!

That puts *our* lives and health at risk. I could care less about what some anti-vax nutter does with their own children, it's *my* health and *other peoples* health that matters.

No jab, no child benefits, no school benefits, less tax relief, no dole, nothing. Your kid will cost the state more because of the avoidable illnesses it'll contract, and spread.

that is what i was implying.

Igotadose

Thread on twitter about an 8 year old girl undergoing chemotherapy (had been doing so for months) contracted measles due to contact with some other kid in a grocery store.

Result was that the pediatric chemo unit had to shut down for a 'terminal cleaning', which messed with the chemo schedules for the other kids, and the poor girl that was exposed had to travel around wearing a facemask. Due to her lengthy chemo, she's skeletal with no hair or eyebrows. Imagine that at 8, add the facemask.

At least the chemo patients didn't have to have immune-system boosting drugs, which are difficult and very painful.

All due to an unvaccinated child in a grocery store.

https://twitter.com/SteamLaundry/status/1065153914100604928

dr.fuzzenstein

One can only hope that the problem will sort itself out in the long run.
"I want to choose for myself!" will be a popular inscription on gravestones.
Or how about "I chose this for my child!"

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2018/1129/1014223-measles-rise/

110,000 people dying of measles per year.

Totally preventable. But making a comeback here in Europe and in South America.


IMHO part of the problem is that disease is rarer now than in the past. It's way too easy to imagine it won't happen to you.

But it's not safe out there. Here's a list of diseases on the watch list. Not all are vaccine related but all are public health risks.

Remember when it comes to viruses,
Vaccines are pretty much your first, last and only line of defence.

http://www.hpsc.ie/notifiablediseases/notificationforms/

Enhanced Surveillance and Investigative Forms

These surveillance forms are for use by Health Care Professionals and relate to specific infectious diseases where enhanced surveillance is undertaken.

Acute Flaccid Paralysis (AFP)
Avian Influenza
Bacterial Meningitis / Meningococcal Disease
Chickenpox (Varicella)
Clostridium difficile
Cryptosporidiosis
EARSS Enhanced Bacteraemia Surveillance
Gastroenteritis
Gonorrhoea
Haemophilus influenzae
Hepatitis B
Hepatitis C
Hepatitis E
HIV
Infectious intestinal disease (IID)
Influenza
Legionellosis
Leptospirosis
Listeriosis
Lymphogranuloma Venereum
Malaria
Measles
MERS-CoV
Mumps
Outbreaks
Pertussis
Plague
Pneumococcal Disease (invasive)
Rubella
Salmonellosis
Streptococcus group A (invasive)
Syphilis
Tetanus
Tuberculosis
Varicella (Chickenpox)
Verotoxigenic Escherichia coli (VTEC)
Zika virus infection

paw patrol

blanch152 wrote: »

Only those who are vaccinated and get a different variant should be treated.

what about those that get vaccinated and still the virus?
Would you kill them for being failures?

Orion

Nurse offers great solution for parents who don’t want to vaccinate their kids

https://ascienceenthusiast.com/nurse-offers-great-solution-for-parents-who-dont-want-to-vaccinate-their-kids/?fbclid=IwAR1o3HMGf4J05e28n31TMh8RLt9H9l4TSNIOn7oD8eT8A7--q3gEQn0MSGA

Graces7

blanch152 wrote: »

7


People like you and Graces7 need to read websites like this:

https://nrvs.info/posters-and-graphics/

assuring you I am far more well read than you and not just one sided emotional propaganda like that.

Have a lovely day

dr.fuzzenstein

paw patrol wrote: »

what about those that get vaccinated and still the virus?
Would you kill them for being failures?

People still get killed in cars despite seat belts and airbags.
That is not a valid excuses for not putting on a seatbelt and manufacturers still have to fit airbags.
And /thread.

Graces7

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

People still get killed in cars despite seat belts and airbags.
That is not a valid excuses for not putting on a seatbelt and manufacturers still have to fit airbags.
And /thread.

:rolleyes:

paw patrol

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

People still get killed in cars despite seat belts and airbags.
That is not a valid excuses for not putting on a seatbelt and manufacturers still have to fit airbags.
And /thread.

I think you should read what he wrote, then what I asked. Your retort misses the point.
They would only treat people who took vaccines who got a different variant (that's what they said)

sullivlo

Graces7 wrote: »

assuring you I am far more well read than you and not just one sided emotional propaganda like that.

Have a lovely day

Do you search for references to your name and then intentionally go into full passive aggressive mode? How dare you imply that your knowledge is better than anyone’s when you’re spouting antivax bull.

Maybe search back through the thread for other mentions of your name and answer the questions you have been asked.

What is your opinion on the kid with cancer who’s treatment was threatened by a kid with chicken pox?

uptherebels

Graces7 wrote: »

assuring you I am far more well read than you and not just one sided emotional propaganda like that.

Have a lovely day

And yet you are influenced by your faith on so many things and not by the facts you can read and research.

dr.fuzzenstein

Graces7 wrote: »

assuring you I am far more well read than you and not just one sided emotional propaganda like that.

Have a lovely day

Looks like you were reading the Beano.

fxotoole

Carol25 wrote: »

Why on earth would the tax payer have to foot the bill firstly when it’s the drugs companies making and wining and dining that HSE top brass to use their vaccine...

That’s a fairly serious accusation.

If you have proof of drugs companies compromising the integrity of the HSE’s tendering process, I suggest you present your proof now, or withdraw your ridiculous accusation and apologise.

Guy:Incognito

fxotoole wrote: »

That’s a fairly serious accusation.

If you have proof of drugs companies compromising the integrity of the HSE’s tendering process, I suggest you present your proof now, or withdraw your ridiculous accusation and apologise.

Since when is proof needed? Everyone knows "I'm a mother /parent and I know best" and anything read on "truther" sites can be taken as gospel.

Eirpod99

I wonder how much (more?) "Big Pharma" could make treating outbreaks of various diseases for which there currently are vaccines if said vaccines were no longer available. I suppose it would depend on the percentage of the herd infected.
My daughter suffered serious headaches shortly after receiving the HPV vaccine. Were the headaches related to receiving the vaccine? No idea. Given the same option again, would she go through with being vaccinated? Absolutely. If only it was available in her mother's day.

Carol25

fxotoole wrote: »

That’s a fairly serious accusation.

If you have proof of drugs companies compromising the integrity of the HSE’s tendering process, I suggest you present your proof now, or withdraw your ridiculous accusation and apologise.

After starting this discussion with genuine concerns, I have now come to the realisation that the pro vaccine crowd on here are more fanatical and discriminatory than I’d ever imagined. They don’t want to discuss anything about the processes involved. They just want to silence.

eagle eye

fxotoole wrote:

If you have proof of drugs companies compromising the integrity of the HSE’s tendering process, I suggest you present your proof now, or withdraw your ridiculous accusation and apologise.

Are you saying that nobody from the HSE has ever dined with people from major drug companies?

Carol25

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Since when is proof needed? Everyone knows "I'm a mother /parent and I know best" and anything read on "truther" sites can be taken as gospel.

What are truther sites? You seem to know more about them than I do. Also is being a mother who has gone through the vaccination process now to be ridiculed when I express some concerns?

Carol25

blanch152 wrote: »

Big Pharma yeah.

https://www.scarymommy.com/nurse-moms-epic-big-pharma-rant-goes-viral/

So I think this nurse is right, anyone who refuses vaccination because of "Big Pharma" should be denied access for themselves and their children to all the other products of Big Pharma. No more antibiotics, no more stents, no more cancer drugs etc.

You should take a long hard look at yourself with that statement...suggesting looking at a child and their family in the eyes that has been diagnosed with Cancer and denying them treatment for any reason is disgusting.

Carol25

blanch152 wrote: »

No, but you seem to have the time to keep typing out anti-vaxxer nonsense.

https://thestir.cafemom.com/parenting_news/213349/poster-about-getting-kids-vaccinated

This poster should explain it all to you.

When your daughter gets rubella when pregnant, how are you going to explain that you chose to leave her at risk?

What will you say when she calls you and tells you she has cervical cancer, because you decided that she wouldn't need the HPV vaccine?

Do you think that your organic home-cooked food was enough to protect them?

I actually feel very sorry for anti-vaxxers like you, because sooner or later you are going to have to deal with one of these situations.

But hey, just blame "Big Pharma".

How am I anti vaaxer when myself and my children are vaccinated? Is no one allowed to question the process?

ancapailldorcha

Carol25 wrote: »

You should take a long hard look at yourself with that statement...suggesting looking at a child and their family in the eyes that has been diagnosed with Cancer and denying them treatment for any reason is disgusting.

While I don't agree, it's the logical extension of anti-vaxxer thinking. Well, insofar that it can be termed "thinking" anyway.

Capt'n Midnight

Eirpod99 wrote: »

I wonder how much (more?) "Big Pharma" could make treating outbreaks of various diseases for which there currently are vaccines if said vaccines were no longer available. I suppose it would depend on the percentage of the herd infected.

Not much either way. The patents expire after 20 years. And the first 10 are taken up by safety trials.


After that they become generic which means any regulated phara company can churn them out for cost plus a small margin in a competitive market.




[Rant] So pharma has only a short time to recoup the costs of new drugs (R&D is one of the smaller ones). And there is NO brand loyalty, most health services change over to generics ASAP.

The real money is in pain killers and diseases of the rich, or the old who have a lifetimes accumulated assets to be siphoned off (which seems to be a key driver for US healthcare)

Make no mistake , I hate big pharma for the obscene amounts of money spent on marketing and shareholder profits compared to what's actually spent on R&D , but I have to applaud the people doing the ground breaking work.

The problem is letting raw capitalists control too much healthcare.

But when you hear of a very expensive miracle drug, remember that it will be a generic in about a decade.


PS. Don't get me started about the cost of things like Ibuprofen in Irish Pharmacies. [/Rant]


Remember too the USA paid for the global campaign against smallpox because it was cheaper than continuing to pay for health care.

Guy:Incognito

Carol25 wrote: »

What are truther sites? You seem to know more about them than I do. Also is being a mother who has gone through the vaccination process now to be ridiculed when I express some concerns?

I wasnt actually referring to you but another poster on here who claims that her being a mother trumps anything doctors say.

Maybe try not to be so sensitive and read stuff instead of thinking everyone is against you.

But your mask slipped with your " pro vaccine " comments. Coming in slow, pretending not to be an anti vaxxer and building up slowly.

Guy:Incognito

Carol25 wrote: »

You should take a long hard look at yourself with that statement...suggesting looking at a child and their family in the eyes that has been diagnosed with Cancer and denying them treatment for any reason is disgusting.

Maybe the parents should look the child in the eyes and tell them they were offered a vaccine but turned it down. Maybe a " big pharma " rant will cure the child?
But sure it's easier to just say " it's not our fault, it's the evil doctors'

Incidentally, why would you being going to the doctors anyway, sure aren't they the ones that wanted to give you the vaccine in the first place, wouldnt a bit of homeopathy be the best course of action?

Guy:Incognito

eagle eye wrote: »

Are you saying that nobody from the HSE has ever dined with people from major drug companies?

Would it not be par for the course for companies to have meetings ( dinner or otherwise) with clients?
But when it's a drug company then obviously evil is afoot.

Carol25

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I wasnt actually referring to you but another poster on here who claims that her being a mother trumps anything doctors say.

Maybe try not to be so sensitive and read stuff instead of thinking 3veryone is against you.

But your mask slipped with your " pro vaccine " comments. Coking in slow, pretending not to be an anti vaxxer and building up slowly.

What do you mean? I don’t understand. Which mask and what’s coking in slow? Are people who get vaccines all supposed to have the same views as the strange people on here?

Carol25

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Maybe the parents should look the child in the eyes and tell them they were offered a vaccine but turned it down. Maybe a " big pharma " rant will cure the child?
But sure it's easier to just say " it's not our fault, it's the evil doctors'

Incidentally, why would you being going to the doctors anyway, sure aren't they the ones that wanted to give you the vaccine in the first place, wouldnt a bit of homeopathy be the best course of action?

What is this rambling about? If this is an attempt to justify denying children cancer treatment then you can quite frankly go to hell. It’s where people who suggest something so disgusting belong and just highlights what a bunch of right wing nazi types are on here.
I just hope some day you or your colleagues here are not in that position...
The suggestion that children be denied antibiotics/treatment for illnesses has gone too far for me. I’ve been in hospital in the paediatric unit and I see the suffering and headache a sick child can bring to a family and neighbourhood. I can’t justify engaging with such people. I initially came to discuss what’s happening, processes, concerns, my issue with signing the consent form, especially if vaccines are mandatory, and got quoted, mis quoted and thrown into all sorts of categories.
I just hope our future generation is safe, because from some replies on here. I’m not so sure...

P.S. I know this will be quoted and the likes and God knows what said but I won’t be responding from now on.

Guy:Incognito

Carol25 wrote: »

What is this rambling about? If this is an attempt to justify denying children cancer treatment then you can quite frankly go to hell. It’s where people who suggest something so disgusting belong and just highlights what a bunch of right wing nazi types are on here.
I just hope some day you or your colleagues here are not in that position...
The suggestion that children be denied antibiotics/treatment for illnesses has gone too far for me. I’ve been in hospital in the paediatric unit and I see the suffering and headache a sick child can bring to a family and neighbourhood. I can’t justify engaging with such people. I initially came to discuss what’s happening, processes, concerns, my issue with signing the consent form, especially if vaccines are mandatory, and got quoted, mis quoted and thrown into all sorts of categories.
I just hope our future generation is safe, because from some replies on here. I’m not so sure...

P.S. I know this will be quoted and the likes and God knows what said but I won’t be responding from now on.

Why are the parents not disgusting for denying them prevenatative vaccines before not particularly pleasant treatment for a life changing condition is required ( that may not work anyway)?

Capt'n Midnight

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

People still get killed in cars despite seat belts and airbags.
That is not a valid excuses for not putting on a seatbelt and manufacturers still have to fit airbags.
And /thread.

Think of it as
Seatbelt = Vaccine. Clunk, click every trip. Actively taking safety precautions.
Airbag = Childhood diseases. Totally relying on a idiot-proofed environment.

The main reason for the development of airbags was that people in the US don't use seatbelts. Airbags are a poor substitute for proper seat belts. And airbags can be lethal for kids. And adults too, just look at the Takata airbag recall that affects 37 million vehicles.


If you wear a seatbelt, you have protection from when you put it on.

In some people there is a perception of risk of being trapped in a burning car or underwater. TBH if crash was so bad that you have problems undoing the belt, there's a likelihood you'd have been injured or rendered unconscious if you weren't wearing one anyway. So like vaccines the imagined risks of using it are nothing compared to the proven risk by not using it.


There's a great book called Dead Men Do Tell Tales , if you like the autopsy bits of CSI you'll love it, where he describes his early days working for tight fisted ambulance chasing undertaker. The boss wouldn't spend Christmas, but after seeing what happened as a result of someone being thrown from a car, had seatbelts installed in their vehicles the next day. The point being that those of us who have directly experienced the consequences of stuff like this tend to have pretty strong opinions about it.



If you rely on airbags, you are at risk if the airbag goes off at the wrong time. Or not at all. Mumps in a child is bad, but for a young adult it can result in deafness or in young man it can mean sterility. There is the possibility that you'd never get the disease, but that's a lot smaller now that so many people don't vaccinate.

Most kids survive childhood diseases. But I know people with permanent disabilities because of them. There are also people I've never met because they died.

eagle eye

Guy:Incognito wrote:

Would it not be par for the course for companies to have meetings ( dinner or otherwise) with clients? But when it's a drug company then obviously evil is afoot.

I quoted a guy who wasn't happy with somebody suggesting that they go for meals and are in cahoots.
I'm just trying to find out if it's just the bit about them doing dodgy deals that he is giving out about.

eagle eye

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Think of it as Seatbelt = Vaccine. Clunk, click every trip. Actively taking safety precautions. Airbag = Childhood diseases. Totally relying on a idiot-proofed environment.

This is not accurate.
The trustworthiness of the companies telling people they need this stuff is a huge part of things.
We all know how important profit is to these large drug manufacturers, it's hard to trust them when money is their sole purpose for being in business.

nthclare

Had the flu jab on Tuesday I'm alright.
Actually I feel ok now.

Anybody offended by the fact I'm ok ???

Best decision I've made concerning my health this winter and last winter was getting the vaccine.

No more night sweats aches and pains being tired etc , spreading the virus or putting others health at risk.

Not getting the flu jab is like driving without a Seatbelt.

This year's flu is going to be one of the worst ever.

Guy:Incognito

eagle eye wrote: »

This is not accurate.
The trustworthiness of the companies telling people they need this stuff is a huge part of things.
We all know how important profit is to these large drug manufacturers, it's hard to trust them when money is their sole purpose for being in business.

Whereas car companies are in it for the love of the game?

Companies exist to make money. Killing, injuring or giving diseases to your customers isn't the way to go about that.

ancapailldorcha

eagle eye wrote: »

This is not accurate.
The trustworthiness of the companies telling people they need this stuff is a huge part of things.
We all know how important profit is to these large drug manufacturers, it's hard to trust them when money is their sole purpose for being in business.

So we should trust internet soccer moms instead?