Anti-vaxxers

ohnonotgmail

skepticalme wrote: »

So you're expecting another withdrawal of Infanrix Hexa then.

were there problems with another batch?

skepticalme

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

vaccines in general. try to keep up.

Maybe you should make your statements clearer. That might help.

ohnonotgmail

skepticalme wrote: »

The first report for the first of the vaccines was published only yesterday.

and an italian anti-vax sites got the scoop?

ohnonotgmail

skepticalme wrote: »

Maybe you should make your statements clearer. That might help.

my post was quite clear.

ancapailldorcha

skepticalme wrote: »

Post 1992! You stated explicitly that it was an isolated case!

That's what these sites do. They take isolated cases and present them as the norm.

Now, can you prove that this is a regular occurrence?

rawn

skepticalme wrote: »

rawn wrote: »

The batches in question were withdrawn, yes.

So you're expecting another withdrawal of Infanrix Hexa then.

A withdrawal on what grounds?

batgoat

skepticalme wrote: »

Maybe you should make your statements clearer. That might help.

In fairness, you've proclaimed this as a norm and implied that all vaccines are deadly as a result. But you can't even establish how this was more than an isolated case...

Orion

skepticalme wrote: »

Not deliberate, just careless, , machines not cleaned properly for instance.
Do you not find it shocking the 'vaccine' had no antigens for the 6 illnesses it's supposed to prevent?

gar32? Is that you?

Igotadose

skepticalme wrote: »

The first report for the first of the vaccines was published only yesterday.

It didn't take a real scientist very long to *absolutely destroy* this garbage Corvelva "report."

https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/vaccine-pseudoscience-corvelva-anti-vaccine-researchers/

Summary quote:
"This is a ridiculous study that uses amateurish biochemical methods to arrive at conclusions that support their beliefs. A real study would have asked a question like “are there antigens in the vaccine,” and attempted to answer it with well-controlled, well-designed studies."


So, let's move along, nothing to see here. As is always the case with the anti-vax nutters. When something 'new and exciting' comes out from those sociopaths, just wait a few days and it's always debunked.

Harry Palmr

Today I got my winter flu jab as I'm a type 1 diabetic and rational.

Capt'n Midnight

Here's research from a reputable site that claims
Parachute use did not reduce death or major traumatic injury when jumping from aircraft in the first randomized evaluation of this intervention.
https://www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k5094

The real purpose of this study was to make a point about how people interpret results from scientific papers.

All jumps were from stationery aircraft on the ground.

skepticalme

Igotadose wrote: »

It didn't take a real scientist very long to *absolutely destroy* this garbage Corvelva "report."

https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/vaccine-pseudoscience-corvelva-anti-vaccine-researchers/

Summary quote:
"This is a ridiculous study that uses amateurish biochemical methods to arrive at conclusions that support their beliefs. A real study would have asked a question like “are there antigens in the vaccine,” and attempted to answer it with well-controlled, well-designed studies."


So, let's move along, nothing to see here. As is always the case with the anti-vax nutters. When something 'new and exciting' comes out from those sociopaths, just wait a few days and it's always debunked.

A blog?
Do you even know who skeptical raptor is?
Where is his research? In what journal Is it published?
Scientist he is not!

Igotadose

skepticalme wrote: »

A blog?
Do you even know who skeptical raptor is?
Where is his research? In what journal Is it published?
Scientist he is not!

He keeps it anonymous to hide from zealots like yourself. Can't say as I blame him. Lots of articles about anti-vaxxers hounding researchers and engaging in abusive behaviors.

And.... do you disagree with his observations on the Corvelva "report?" Really, I know you antivaxxers are all about wasting everyone else's resources debunking your articles of faith, but Skeptical Raptor at least does this pro-bono. If the corvelva "results" are replicated by some reputable researchers, I'm sure we'll be hearing from others about it. But for now, Skeptical's response seems spot on.

Unless you've got some refutation of it? Or, better still, a legitimate study?

skepticalme

Igotadose wrote: »

He keeps it anonymous to hide from zealots like yourself. Can't say as I blame him. Lots of articles about anti-vaxxers hounding researchers and engaging in abusive behaviors.

And.... do you disagree with his observations on the Corvelva "report?" Really, I know you antivaxxers are all about wasting everyone else's resources debunking your articles of faith, but Skeptical Raptor at least does this pro-bono. If the corvelva "results" are replicated by some reputable researchers, I'm sure we'll be hearing from others about it. But for now, Skeptical's response seems spot on.

Unless you've got some refutation of it? Or, better still, a legitimate study?

I know who he is. A pharmaceutical sales and marketing rep.
He is no researcher or scientist, just a foul mouthed pharma rep.
You haven't seen his gofundme account then.
What has he actually said about this first report that 'destroys'' it?

ancapailldorcha

skepticalme wrote: »

A blog?
Do you even know who skeptical raptor is?
Where is his research? In what journal Is it published?
Scientist he is not!

You've not posted anything even remotely scientific so why are you complaining about this?

Orion

skepticalme wrote: »

I know who he is. A pharmaceutical sales and marketing rep.
He is no researcher or scientist, just a foul mouthed pharma rep.
You haven't seen his gofundme account then.
What has he actually said about this first report that 'destroys'' it?

Are you a researcher or scientist? His blog is rife with actual references to back up everything he says. So show me your research that refutes his statements. Rather than an ad hom attack on him let's have some proof of your nonsense.

Igotadose

Orion wrote: »

Are you a researcher or scientist? His blog is rife with actual references to back up everything he says. So show me your research that refutes his statements. Rather than an ad hom attack on him let's have some proof of your nonsense.

Problem is (as you so exactly capture in your location), that's not the dogma of the anti-vax zealots like "skeptical". They are required to NEVER believe anything that comes from anyone even slightly associated with industry. Ever. No exceptions. Unless it matches your world view. Then anything's o.k. - magical healing water, colonics to cure colds, aluminum dropped from airplane exhaust to pollute our precious elements, fluoride causing whatever, measles vaccines the reason their offspring are autistic, ...

It's all about the dogma with them. Science is their arch-enemy, and most of them are just acting out their resentment at the smart kids that ended up in science or medicine.

knipex

skepticalme wrote: »

More news from Italy. Composition of 6 in 1 Infanrix Hexa.

https://www.corvelva.it/speciali-corvelva/analisi/vaccingate-initial-results-on-infanrix-hexa-chemical-composition.html

In Infanrix Hexa we found

chemical contamination from the manufacturing process or cross-contamination with other manufacturing lines;chemical toxins;bacterial peptide toxins;insoluble and indigestible macromolecule that reacts to the protein assay, but cannot be recognized by any protein databases.

We have not found:

Protein antigens of diphtheria toxoids, tetanus, pertussis, hepatitis B, haemophylus influenzae B, Poliomyelitis 1-2-3;Formaldehyde and glutaraldehyde, phenoxyethanol, antibiotic residues indicated in the composition;

All risk, no benefit.

Open disclosure here.. I am not a chemist or microbiologist

but to my eye that study looks to be a masterpiece of waffle or an attempt by someone who has no knowledge if vaccines or vaccine manufacturing to support a predetermined finding..

P's it actually said no formaldehyde was detected..

Ipso

Igotadose wrote: »

Problem is (as you so exactly capture in your location), that's not the dogma of the anti-vax zealots like "skeptical". They are required to NEVER believe anything that comes from anyone even slightly associated with industry. Ever. No exceptions. Unless it matches your world view. Then anything's o.k. - magical healing water, colonics to cure colds, aluminum dropped from airplane exhaust to pollute our precious elements, fluoride causing whatever, measles vaccines the reason their offspring are autistic, ...

It's all about the dogma with them. Science is their arch-enemy, and most of them are just acting out their resentment at the smart kids that ended up in science or medicine.

They are very much like conspiracy theorist. They like to think that only they are in the know, everyone else is ignorant and controlled by the government.
It's like a combination of Dunnin Kruger and Munchausen syndrome.

old_aussie

Dravokivich wrote: »

How do you prove it? I no longer have the slip that was stamped when he got them.

The go back to the doctor or medical centre that did the vaccination and get the slip......simples

old_aussie

Primary Immune Deficiency (PID) is a name given to hereditary (genetic) conditions that weaken the immune system.

Children with PID are more likely to get infections and may have a hard time fighting off infections.

PID children rely on other children being vaccinated to protect them(the children with PID) from getting an infection that can kill a child with PID.

Igotadose

old_aussie wrote: »

Primary Immune Deficiency (PID) is a name given to hereditary (genetic) conditions that weaken the immune system.

Children with PID are more likely to get infections and may have a hard time fighting off infections.

PID children rely on other children being vaccinated to protect them(the children with PID) from getting an infection that can kill a child with PID.

Did Australia go through with the 'no jab, no school' thing they were talking about? https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-no-jab-no-pay-in-australia-no-excuse-accepted-for-unvaccinated/

Something Ireland should absolutely adopt. It'll save lives and $$. As old_aussie points out, the 'herd immunity' is critical to immune-suppressed/compromised people. A group the anti-vax zealots could care less about.

EdgeCase

Unfortunately, we live in a world where conspiracy theories seem to be becoming more and more widespread.

It's a bit like an inability to read social media with a critical eye.

mulbot

Igotadose wrote: »

Did Australia go through with the 'no jab, no school' thing they were talking about? https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-no-jab-no-pay-in-australia-no-excuse-accepted-for-unvaccinated/

Something Ireland should absolutely adopt. It'll save lives and $$. As old_aussie points out, the 'herd immunity' is critical to immune-suppressed/compromised people. A group the anti-vax zealots could care less about.

When or how are people diagnosed with compromised immune systems?

Martina1991

mulbot wrote: »

When or how are people diagnosed with compromised immune systems?

Elderly people are associated with declining immunity. Their bodies are not able to fight off infection as easily as younger people. Medical conditions that can result in a compromised immune system would include heart disease, lung disease, diabetes, leukaemia, autoimmune diseases etc.

People with compromised immune systems are also more susceptible to developing cancer.

mulbot

Martina1991 wrote: »

Elderly people are associated with declining immunity. Their bodies are not able to fight off infection as easily as younger people. Medical conditions that can result in a compromised immune system would include heart disease, lung disease, diabetes, leukaemia, autoimmune diseases etc.

People with compromised immune systems are also more susceptible to developing cancer.

Thanks ,sorry,i meant babies and infants.When or how are they tested for a compromised immune system?

Martina1991

mulbot wrote: »

Thanks ,sorry,i meant babies and infants.When or how are they tested for a compromised immune system?

All babies would be considered immunocompromised as they haven't had a chance to develop an immune system.

There have been many cases of very young babies dying from contracting herpes simplex 1 virus (the coldsore virus) from people kissing them. They simply have no immune system to fight off infections.

A baby/ child with an illness or disease would be even more susceptible.

Igotadose

Martina1991 wrote: »

All babies would be considered immunocompromised as they haven't had a chance to develop an immune system.

There have been many cases of very young babies dying from contracting herpes simplex 1 virus (the coldsore virus) from people kissing them. They simply have no immune system to fight off infections.

A baby/ child with an illness or disease would be even more susceptible.

Whooping cough is another potential threat. Problem is you can't administer the vaccine to very young children (minimum age 2 months).

mulbot

Martina1991 wrote: »

All babies would be considered immunocompromised as they haven't had a chance to develop an immune system.

There have been many cases of very young babies dying from contracting herpes simplex 1 virus (the coldsore virus) from people kissing them. They simply have no immune system to fight off infections.

A baby/ child with an illness or disease would be even more susceptible.

So technically then babies with compromised immune systems are still given vaccines? I thought if someone,such as a baby, is compromised then they shouldn't get a vaccine?

astrofool

mulbot wrote: »

So technically then babies with compromised immune systems are still given vaccines? I thought if someone,such as a baby, is compromised then they shouldn't get a vaccine?

Having read the above, is that really a question you are asking, or are you trying to stir something, or try and catch someone in some sort of deceit in their answer? It's quite clear to me what the above means, making your question somewhat redundant, but I think it's important that Martina1991 understands your intellectual capacity before they frame their answer at a level that can be understood by you.

gctest50

mulbot wrote: »

When or how are people diagnosed with compromised immune systems?

lab test - you'd see wonky blood

day-to-day, exactly what you'd expect from an immune system not working well

mulbot

astrofool wrote: »

Having read the above, is that really a question you are asking, or are you trying to stir something, or try and catch someone in some sort of deceit in their answer? It's quite clear to me what the above means, making your question somewhat redundant, but I think it's important that Martina1991 understands your intellectual capacity before they frame their answer at a level that can be understood by you.

Yes it is a question,if you see at the of the sentence I've included a little squiggley thing,it's an eroteme(shows when a question is being asked). I wasn't asking you anything,so try have some manners and let the question be answered by who I asked.

mulbot

gctest50 wrote: »

lab test - you'd see wonky blood

day-to-day, exactly what you'd expect from an immune system not working well

Ok,are all children tested before given vaccines ?

LorelaiG

No, why would they be, vaccines are not live, therefore they pose very little risk to children receiving them, there are instances where children have bad reactions to vaccines, like high fevers or an allergic reaction if there's an unknown allergy but the instances aren't high enough that we need to test every child to check if they're immunocompromised.

mulbot

LorelaiG wrote: »

No, why would they be, vaccines are not live, therefore they pose very little risk to children receiving them, there are instances where children have bad reactions to vaccines, like high fevers or an allergic reaction if there's an unknown allergy but the instances aren't high enough that we need to test every child to check if they're immunocompromised.

MMR and Chickenpox are live,are they not?

Igotadose

mulbot wrote: »

MMR and Chickenpox are live,are they not?

You might want to read this as to what vaccines are recommended for children, and at what ages. You've sort-of seized on my original use of 'immunocompromised' in reference to herd immunity as a seemingly sly way to say something about vaccinating children. Somehow, I detect the pattern of another poster in your work, but I'm skeptical it could be that person, they wouldn't do that knowing board rules.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/imz/child-adolescent.html

mulbot

Igotadose wrote: »

You might want to read this as to what vaccines are recommended for children, and at what ages. You've sort-of seized on my original use of 'immunocompromised' in reference to herd immunity as a seemingly sly way to say something about vaccinating children. Somehow, I detect the pattern of another poster in your work, but I'm skeptical it could be that person, they wouldn't do that knowing board rules.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/imz/child-adolescent.html

No idea what you're on about or what other poster.I was asking a few questions that I consider interesting. Thanks for the link.

rawn

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2018/1129/1014223-measles-rise/

110,000 people dying of measles per year.

Totally preventable. But making a comeback here in Europe and in South America.


IMHO part of the problem is that disease is rarer now than in the past. It's way too easy to imagine it won't happen to you.

But it's not safe out there. Here's a list of diseases on the watch list. Not all are vaccine related but all are public health risks.

Remember when it comes to viruses,
Vaccines are pretty much your first, last and only line of defence.

http://www.hpsc.ie/notifiablediseases/notificationforms/

mulbot wrote: »

MMR and Chickenpox are live,are they not?

This should help

https://www.vaccines.gov/basics/types/index.html

astrofool

mulbot wrote: »

Yes it is a question,if you see at the of the sentence I've included a little squiggley thing,it's an eroteme(shows when a question is being asked). I wasn't asking you anything,so try have some manners and let the question be answered by who I asked.

Got it, answers need to be framed at a level that Homer Simpson could understand.

LorelaiG

mulbot wrote: »

MMR and Chickenpox are live,are they not?

These are not given until the child is over the age of 1. If there are any problems with the immune system they will be well noticed before then.

mulbot

LorelaiG wrote: »

These are not given until the child is over the age of 1. If there are any problems with the immune system they will be well noticed before then.

Rota virus vaccine-which is live- is given very early(2 months,4 months).

astrofool

mulbot wrote: »

Rota virus vaccine-which is live- is given very early(2 months,4 months).

What about that time you acted dumb to all vaccinations, like, 8 or so posts ago, and now seem to have knowledge of each vaccine, meaning you can also look up why they are given when they are given, without asking other kind posters to give answers to questions which you clearly already know the answer.

If you want to make a statement, or accuse someone of lying, then do it, stop hiding behind snivelly little "and what about this case" questions.

mulbot

astrofool wrote: »

What about that time you acted dumb to all vaccinations, like, 8 or so posts ago, and now seem to have knowledge of each vaccine, meaning you can also look up why they are given when they are given, without asking other kind posters to give answers to questions which you clearly already know the answer.

If you want to make a statement, or accuse someone of lying, then do it, stop hiding behind snivelly little "and what about this case" questions.

You mean yesterday? Well if you noticed, other posters sent links,it doesn't take long to look information up. Once again,I was asking other posters questions,not you,so mind your own business when i'm not directing a question to yourself.

jh79

mulbot wrote: »

Rota virus vaccine-which is live- is given very early(2 months,4 months).

It was tested on children prior to approval and this was found to be the safest time to give it. It's not given after 8 months due to an increased risk of a blocked bowel. Unvaccinated kids get the same blocked bowel too but with vaccinations there is 1 or 2 extra cases per 100,000 doses.

Hugely successful vaccination program with over 300 million doses given to babies. Reduction in hospitalisation, due to the virus, of up to 96% in somes places.

mulbot

jh79 wrote: »

It was tested on children prior to approval and this was found to be the safest time to give it. It's not given after 8 months due to an increased risk of a blocked bowel. Unvaccinated kids get the same blocked bowel too but with vaccinations there is 1 or 2 extra cases per 100,000 doses.

Hugely successful vaccination program with over 300 million doses given to babies. Reduction in hospitalisation, due to the virus, of up to 96% in somes places.

Thanks for the info. My query was (following on from the immune compromised questions )more about whether infants or babies get tested for a weakened/compromised immune system before being given a vaccine.As one poster replied the MMR is given at 1 year, as they explained that health issues would be noticed by then. What if a 2 month old had a weakened system but hadn't being diagnosed but was given a live vaccine ?

Martina1991

mulbot wrote:

whether infants or babies get tested for a weakened/compromised immune system before being given a vaccine.As one poster replied the MMR is given at 1 year, as they explained that health issues would be noticed by then. What if a 2 month old had a weakened system but hadn't being diagnosed but was given a live vaccine ?

Being immunocompromised isnt a diagnosis in itself.
Certain people are automatically considered immunocompromised. Babies, the elderly, people with pre-existing diseases.

Vaccines are never designed to cause disease in anyone.

batgoat

mulbot wrote: »

Thanks for the info. My query was (following on from the immune compromised questions )more about whether infants or babies get tested for a weakened/compromised immune system before being given a vaccine.As one poster replied the MMR is given at 1 year, as they explained that health issues would be noticed by then. What if a 2 month old had a weakened system but hadn't being diagnosed but was given a live vaccine ?

Newborns get blood tests, that highlights immunity issues. Can even have foresight of such issues prior to birth.

mulbot

Martina1991 wrote: »

Being immunocompromised isnt a diagnosis in itself.
Certain people are automatically considered immunocompromised. Babies, the elderly, people with pre-existing diseases.

Vaccines are never designed to cause disease in anyone.

Yes it is, you can get tested for it.

Martina1991

mulbot wrote:

Yes it is, you can get tested for it.

There are tests to determine immune deficiency.
I'm saying certain people can be categoried as an immunocompromised based on their age or what illness they may have.

rawn

mulbot wrote: »

Yes it is, you can get tested for it.

You can get tested for diseases caused by vaccines?? I don't follow your logic here.