Anti-vaxxers

Gonad

My child was perfectly fine . Hitting all his milestones and targets . We got vaccine and things started to change . My wife is convinced it was the vaccination. We have spoken to a few parents who are in the same boat and they all say like our child their kids were not great feeders when baby’s and had problems keeping food down and issues when pooping .

My wife thinks it may have something to do with the gut when vaccine is administered .

My kid used to constantly talk and run around excitedly and it all stopped after vaccine

ancapailldorcha

Gonad wrote: »

My child was perfectly fine . Hitting all his milestones and targets . We got vaccine and things started to change . My wife is convinced it was the vaccination. We have spoken to a few parents who are in the same boat and they all say like our child their kids were not great feeders when baby’s and had problems keeping food down and issues when pooping .

My wife thinks it may have something to do with the gut when vaccine is administered .

My kid used to constantly talk and run around excitedly and it all stopped after vaccine

That's exactly the same hateful drivel that's made Wakefield a fortune.

Martina1991

Gonad wrote:

My wife thinks it may have something to do with the gut when vaccine is administered .

Is your wife well read on vaccinations

Gonad

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

That's exactly the same hateful drivel that's made Wakefield a fortune.

What’s hateful about telling ones own experiences ?

It’s coming from somewhere isn’t it ?

Plenty of evidence and court cases seem to suggeet there is no smoke without fire .

Dohnjoe

Gonad wrote: »

What’s hateful about telling ones own experiences ?

It’s coming from somewhere isn’t it ?

That somewhere can't be verified.

/long, long experience with people on an anonymous medium "making stuff up" because they strongly believe in something

EdgeCase

From what I can see the biggest issue is people falling into the world's most common research error : assuming that correlation is causation.

A lot of childhood issues show up at around the kind of times that vaccines are likely to be occurring. That does not imply that the vaccine causes them, rather that they just happen to hit at particular development key stages which also coincide with the kinds of times you'd be vaccinating.

Likewise, you can get the flu vaccine and then end up catching some nasty virus that just happened to be going around at the time e.g. because you physically went to the GPs and inhaled someone's virus-ridden sneeze.

You then come home with some cold and claim the flu vaccine caused it, which it didn't.

Then you reinforce that with the social media filter bubble which concentrates every incidence of a kid having any kind of illness at age X and you reinforce the notion that it *must* be the vaccine. Unfortunately, reporting of problems online tends to mean that you have the problem in the first place. Not all that many people are going to post : my child had all his/her vaccines and is now bouncing around playing foot ball and in fantastic health and is protected against polio! yay vaccines!

A concerned parent comes along and just sees wall-to-wall stories of correlations between developmental disorders and so on and vaccines and then puts one and one together and gets 476.

If you're a parent it's also hardwired into your brain to be concerned, so a few horror stories, no matter how unscientific will resonate and take a lot of convincing to undo.

We could do with a lot more courses in school on how to actually carry out research. It's not nearly as intuitive as people think and we all jump to conclusions. That's why they don't let you near a masters or PhD without first proving you understand research methodologies!

Encephalopathy

batgoat wrote: »

One of the popular claims is that there was less autism historically. But it simply had been identified. Eg the likes of Mozart, Einstein etc were likely candidates for having it.

Popular alright, autism rate in the 80s was meant to be something like 10000/1 and around 60/1 today, so I take it you come across several 35+ year olds undiagnosed with autism on a daily basis?

And it's not just asd, there's a rise I behavioural disorders, speech development, asthma, allergies, immune disorders,children's cancer, sids.

Children have never been so sick.

Pa8301

Encephalopathy wrote: »

Children have never been so sick.

Do you have a source for that assertion?

Encephalopathy

sullivlo wrote: »

Andrew Wakefield was a doctor once upon a time.

He sure was, bet you heard a story about him writing an article in the Lancet and believed that story without ever going and reading the article yourself.
It's okay most of the world believed that honest reporters version aswell.

ancapailldorcha

Gonad wrote: »

What’s hateful about telling ones own experiences ?

It’s coming from somewhere isn’t it ?

Plenty of evidence and court cases seem to suggeet there is no smoke without fire .

Plenty of evidence and yet you cite none.

Encephalopathy wrote: »

He sure was, bet you heard a story about him writing an article in the Lancet and believed that story without ever going and reading the article yourself.
It's okay most of the world believed that honest reporters version aswell.

So he wasn't struck off and prevented from practicing medicine then?

Martina1991

Encephalopathy wrote:

And it's not just asd, there's a rise I behavioural disorders, speech development, asthma, allergies, immune disorders,children's cancer, sids.

Encephalopathy wrote:

Children have never been so sick.

Any proof of any of this?

sullivlo

Encephalopathy wrote: »

He sure was, bet you heard a story about him writing an article in the Lancet and believed that story without ever going and reading the article yourself.
It's okay most of the world believed that honest reporters version aswell.

I have read it. I have spent a considerable amount of time in vaccine research. I don’t just trust what I read online without checking sources.

Unlike 90% of sheep in this thread.

Capt'n Midnight

Encephalopathy wrote: »

And it's not just asd, there's a rise I behavioural disorders, speech development, asthma, allergies, immune disorders,children's cancer, sids.

Children have never been so sick.

In the past most children died before their fifth birthday.

And it wasn't in road traffic accidents which are the main killer today.

Encephalopathy

banie01 wrote: »

You should go back and ask her to walk you through the results then, as the information she has provided is patently false.
There is no genetic test for Autism or ASD.
Fragile X can present in a similar fashion but it is a specific chromosomal disorder that is not Autism.

As far as I can see, A Dr. Andrew Zimmerman has said there may be a link with underlying mitochondrial abnormalities and may contribute to the child's development of asd.
Maybe something to do with that, no harm done anyway.

This Dr. Zimmerman was involved in the "omnibus autism proceeding" in the vaccine court, it's going to be interesting to see if anything comes of his addvicat regarding it.

Encephalopathy

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

But linking to forums of people who agree that vaccines are bad would be grand, wouldnt it? Cos those internet people are telling the truth.

Never really thought of YouTube as a forum, the actual video I pointed to seemed slot more unbiased compared to what I was directed too.

"The Highwire" on YouTube is a good one, it may be antivax, but he backs up everything he says with facts from the appropriate websites, well worth a watch.

Igotadose

Encephalopathy wrote: »

As far as I can see, A Dr. Andrew Zimmerman has said there may be a link with underlying mitochondrial abnormalities and may contribute to the child's development of asd.
Maybe something to do with that, no harm done anyway.

This Dr. Zimmerman was involved in the "omnibus autism proceeding" in the vaccine court, it's going to be interesting to see if anything comes of his addvicat regarding it.

Oh ffs. Go get better sources than the Age of Autism crap you're quoting. Zimmerman's story is known he's legit but you antivax zealots misquote him. Here's one of several articles explaining what's up with him. https://respectfulinsolence.com/2019/01/17/zimmerman-useful-idiot-for-antivaxers/

Encephalopathy

mzungu wrote: »

Batgoat posted one above, but here is another one:
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/48/4/456/284219



The above is only one of many. There have been numerous studies (some mentioned in the articles posted for you so you can have a read in your free time) that back it up.

If I make it to 50 posts, I'll provide links to studies made by impartial parties.
Stanley Plotkin aka the vaccine king or godfather (something like that) is the first name I see on that,he has done a interview in the last couple of weeks saying there is no scientific proof that vaccines don't cause autism.

banie01

Encephalopathy wrote: »

A Dr. Andrew Zimmerman has said there may be a link with underlying mitochondrial abnormalities and may contribute to the child's development of asd.

Now you are being disingenuous!
I asked you to provide proof of a genetic test existing for autism.
A test you claim to have received.

So rather than accept you made an error, you misquote Zimmerman?
Note the words may in the statement above.
There may be, I actually agree there may well be!

But "may" is not the basis for any test that preclude a genetic cause.
The prime mitochondrial flaw that presents autistic behaviour is Fragile X.

The usual Anti-Vax tactics of starting off with "no-idea" but my research led me to this...
Perhaps you should research the test you claim to have had that ruled the DNA as a likely so conclusively?
Then share it with the world so everyone else can get it too!?

banie01

Encephalopathy wrote: »

Stanley Plotkin aka the vaccine king or godfather (something like that) is the first name I see on that,he has done a interview in the last couple of weeks saying there is no scientific proof that vaccines don't cause autism.

There's no scientific proof that my magic rock keeps bears away either?
But yet I have a rock and have never seen a bear round my house?
Does that count as scientific proof?
Because it is about as "scientific" as the assertion above!

There is plenty of evidence based, peer reviewed studies that prove no causation link between Autism and vaccines.
Spouting the above nonsense doesn't change that.

Timberrrrrrrr

Encephalopathy wrote: »

If I make it to 50 posts, I'll provide links to studies made by impartial parties.
Stanley Plotkin aka the vaccine king or godfather (something like that) is the first name I see on that,he has done a interview in the last couple of weeks saying there is no scientific proof that vaccines don't cause autism.

Doesn't bode well for you if yoi are saying this, how many times have you been banned before? If you're a rereg then why should we believe anything you say?

Encephalopathy

Gonad wrote: »

My child was perfectly fine . Hitting all his milestones and targets . We got vaccine and things started to change . My wife is convinced it was the vaccination. We have spoken to a few parents who are in the same boat and they all say like our child their kids were not great feeders when baby’s and had problems keeping food down and issues when pooping .

My wife thinks it may have something to do with the gut when vaccine is administered .

My kid used to constantly talk and run around excitedly and it all stopped after vaccine

Same kinda story, daughter hit every milestone as recorded in the wee orange book that the nurse,was actually quite advanced for her age, people would always comment how smart she was.
Cried solid for a couple of days after injection, speech gone, all interaction gone, avoided eye contact at all costs, no more responding to her name,flapping hands and started walking around on her tiptoes, couldn't use spoon anymore, used to just zone out staring into space, clicking your fingers in front her face and wouldn't flinch.
In a space of a couple of days we had a completely different child, 3 and half years ago, the day of her injections was the last time we heard her speak.( If you don't count the videos of her pre injections)
The only advice I could give to people that are going to vaccinate, is to record loads of video's.

batgoat

Encephalopathy wrote: »

If I make it to 50 posts, I'll provide links to studies made by impartial parties.
Stanley Plotkin aka the vaccine king or godfather (something like that) is the first name I see on that,he has done a interview in the last couple of weeks saying there is no scientific proof that vaccines don't cause autism.

I'm sure you can provide us with a quote... In context.

Timberrrrrrrr

Encephalopathy wrote: »

If I make it to 50 posts, I'll provide links to studies made by impartial parties.
Stanley Plotkin aka the vaccine king or godfather (something like that) is the first name I see on that,he has done a interview in the last couple of weeks saying there is no scientific proof that vaccines don't cause autism.

You can post links you know? Just post the link and remove the . In the xyz.com

We can copy the address and add the . To see the full address

Encephalopathy

Gonad wrote: »

What’s hateful about telling ones own experiences ?

It’s coming from somewhere isn’t it ?

Plenty of evidence and court cases seem to suggeet there is no smoke without fire .

It doesn't fit the story's they've come to believe, antivaxxers ( who are probably flat earthworks aswell) are all Facebook moms, who knows somebody, who knows somebody the a vaccine caused autism and that's all linked back to what Andy Wakefield said in paper( but Wakefield didnt actually say it).
Apparently alot of people where claiming it long before that paper was written, if only we were half as loud as the Americans, our own fellow citizens would know that " antivaxxers" have turned their back on vaccines because an adverse reaction has happened to them, to a family member or most commonly their child.

Dohnjoe

Encephalopathy wrote: »

" antivaxxers" have turned their back on vaccines because an adverse reaction has happened to them, to a family member or most commonly their child.

I know a lot of people, and I don't know any. So my anecdotal evidence trumps your anecdotal evidence

Which is why we rely on the medical science.

mzungu

Encephalopathy wrote: »

Same kinda story, daughter hit every milestone as recorded in the wee orange book that the nurse,was actually quite advanced for her age, people would always comment how smart she was.
Cried solid for a couple of days after injection, speech gone, all interaction gone, avoided eye contact at all costs, no more responding to her name,flapping hands and started walking around on her tiptoes, couldn't use spoon anymore, used to just zone out staring into space, clicking your fingers in front her face and wouldn't flinch.
In a space of a couple of days we had a completely different child, 3 and half years ago, the day of her injections was the last time we heard her speak.( If you don't count the videos of her pre injections)
The only advice I could give to people that are going to vaccinate, is to record loads of video's.

Any comment on the fact that autism rates are similar across different places with high and low vaccination uptake rates?

Capt'n Midnight

Three guesses as to why measles is on the rise again

25th Jan State of emergency declared in Washington State , USA

WHEREAS, The measles virus is a highly contagious infectious disease that can be fatal in
small children, and the existence of 26 confirmed cases in the state of Washington creates an
extreme public health risk that may quickly spread to other counties;
...
NOW, THEREFORE, I, Jay Inslee, Governor of the state of Washington, as a result of the
above-noted situation, and under Chapters 38.52 and 43.06 RCW, do hereby proclaim that a
State of Emergency exists in all counties in the state of Washington, and direct the plans and
procedures of the Washington State Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan be
implemented.

pdf link
https://www.governor.wa.gov/sites/default/files/proclamations/19-01%20State%20of%20Emergency.pdf?utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery

rawn

Encephalopathy wrote: »

batgoat wrote: »

One of the popular claims is that there was less autism historically. But it simply had been identified. Eg the likes of Mozart, Einstein etc were likely candidates for having it.

Popular alright, autism rate in the 80s was meant to be something like 10000/1 and around 60/1 today, so I take it you come across several 35+ year olds undiagnosed with autism on a daily basis?

And it's not just asd, there's a rise I behavioural disorders, speech development, asthma, allergies, immune disorders,children's cancer, sids.

Children have never been so sick.

Cases of autism are not more common than they were, DIAGNOSIS of autism is now common. Years ago it would be "little Jimmy is a bit slow" or "yer man next door is a weirdo". Now we have an entire spectrum of diagnoses and labels for people.

Flange/Flanders

Encephalopathy wrote: »

Popular alright, autism rate in the 80s was meant to be something like 10000/1 and around 60/1 today, so I take it you come across several 35+ year olds undiagnosed with autism on a daily basis?

And it's not just asd, there's a rise I behavioural disorders, speech development, asthma, allergies, immune disorders,children's cancer, sids.

Children have never been so sick.

Children have never been so sick? Ffs Have you not even bothered looking up the rates of childhood mortality. As a race, we are healthier than we have ever been.

Guy:Incognito

Encephalopathy wrote: »

Children have never been so sick.

They've never been surviving their first decade in such been numbers as they do today. Wonder why that is? Medicine maybe?


Dead kids dont get sick.........


Edit. Beaten to it.