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Self driving buses, trains, trucks etc

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    #872
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,080 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    cnocbui wrote: »
    This is a Tesla model S self driving it's owner into their grave, in China. Musk's claim of fully autonomous by the end of the year is scary. Without Lidar, it is probably not possible, let alone safe, but that's Ok, we'll let the public find out by being beta testers.

    tesla-autopilot-china-accident.gif

    Still, Tesla has nothing on Boeing, when it comes to killing people with sheer engineering arrogance in automation.

    Just going by the URL that's about 3 years old. I don't think there is any one on this thread claiming an at least 3 year old Model S is a fully autonomous, self driving car. Most of us think it's a technology that is not ready yet but will be in the near future.


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    #873
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 20,081 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    markodaly wrote: »
    That was almost 3 years ago. The tech has moved a bit since then.

    There have been a couple of instances just last year of Teslas running straight into stationary vehicles, so things haven't improved.
    October 30, 2018 Earlier this month, Shawn Hudson’s Tesla Model S crashed into a stalled car while moving at about 80 miles per hour on a Florida freeway. Tesla’s Autopilot technology was engaged at the time, and now he has filed a lawsuit against Tesla in state courts.
    https://techheading.com/man-sues-tesla-says-autopilot-steered-him-into-a-stalled-car-at-80-mph/
    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    Just going by the URL that's about 3 years old. I don't think there is any one on this thread claiming an at least 3 year old Model S is a fully autonomous, self driving car. Most of us think it's a technology that is not ready yet but will be in the near future.

    Moved on since then? So when did Tesla start fitting LIDAR? AFAIK, Musk's big selling point was that all Teslas with the self driving option are fully capable of level 5 autonomous driving with software updates. He believes you don't need LIDAR and can accomplish the same thing just by advanced processing of images from cameras. All it takes is for a software update containing the required magic from Tesla and you're good to go. The lead engineer who developed Teslas self driving system left the company and founded a startup to develop autonomous driving systems, only he is doing so using LIDAR.


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    #874
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    It's just not going to happen...….ever! Amen!!!


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    #875
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,717 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    It's just not going to happen...….ever! Amen!!!

    What is 'it' specifically?

    Apt you use Amen, as your proposition is entirely faith-based.


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    #876
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,717 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    cnocbui wrote: »
    There have been a couple of instances just last year of Teslas running straight into stationary vehicles, so things haven't improved.

    This has been mentioned before but Tesla's are not self-driving. They are SAE level 2 and are not a leader in that field. A leader in electric cars sure, but not autonomous driving. According to Navigant Research, they are not even in the top 10 of those developing this tech.

    https://insideevs.com/tesla-autonomous-lags-gm-ford-waymo/

    You need to keep an eye on Waymo, who just announced a major expansion.

    https://techcrunch.com/2019/03/19/waymo-is-gearing-up-to-put-a-lot-more-self-driving-cars-on-the-road/


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    #877
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    markodaly wrote: »
    This has been mentioned before but Tesla's are not self-driving. They are SAE level 2 and are not a leader in that field. A leader in electric cars sure, but not autonomous driving. According to Navigant Research, they are not even in the top 10 of those developing this tech.

    https://insideevs.com/tesla-autonomous-lags-gm-ford-waymo/

    You need to keep an eye on Waymo, who just announced a major expansion.

    https://techcrunch.com/2019/03/19/waymo-is-gearing-up-to-put-a-lot-more-self-driving-cars-on-the-road/

    Tesla is a car manufacturer.

    It's goal is to manufacture electric cars and deliver them to customers.
    Autonomous, driverless etc is nowhere near their top priorities and often comes after gimmicky software updates.

    I'd be looking at the major players in the field, Waymo, Mercedes, Renault and Ford.


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    #878
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,991 ✭✭✭kirving


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    Autonomous, driverless etc is nowhere near their top priorities and often comes after gimmicky software updates.

    I'd be looking at the major players in the field, Waymo, Mercedes, Renault and Ford.

    Gotta disagree with the first point there. They're the only company brazen enough to market the system as "Autopilot", and use it as a huge selling point.

    Almost everything I hear about Tesla in their marketing, general media, or pub chats, is about either Ludacris Mode, Range, or "Self Driving".

    It's absolutely something they care about and constantly push in the media.

    In reality, they're way behind the other key players your mentioned.


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    #879
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    Gotta disagree with the first point there. They're the only company brazen enough to market the system as "Autopilot", and use it as a huge selling point.

    Almost everything I hear about Tesla in their marketing, general media, or pub chats, is about either Ludacris Mode, Range, or "Self Driving".

    It's absolutely something they care about and constantly push in the media.

    In reality, they're way behind the other key players your mentioned.

    Yes, but Autopilot is not self-driving. Autopilot is still in Beta AFAIK and it requires you to pay attention and hands on the wheel (even if people dont).

    It's not autonomous, even though people mistakenly use the words interchangeably.


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    #880
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    markodaly wrote: »
    What is 'it' specifically?

    Apt you use Amen, as your proposition is entirely faith-based.


    Jesus came down personally to tell me so there!

    The blind leading the blind he said and I replied, oh you of little faith!

    He wasn't well impressed but he appreciated the humour!


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    #881
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,621 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    a weird decision. i would have assumed the supervising driver was still legally responsible for the vehicle?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/05/technology/uber-self-driving-car-arizona.html


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    #882
    defrule
    Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭defrule


    Where I see this stuff useful is for overnight travel. Say you lived in Belfast but had to be in Cork the next day for business. Currently you would need to travel the day before and stay at a hotel, or you could travel very early in the morning.

    Imagine if you could have a self-driving car/pod that had a bed inside it. You would do everything as normal the previous day, then call for the car at 11PM, jump in and sleep. The car can be set to drive slower, 30mph for comfort, it would mean the journey takes longer but you're sleeping anyway so that doesn't matter. At 30mph you'll reach Cork say in 9 hours so 8AM, just in time to start the morning.

    Slow travel speed overnight would reduce risk of collisions. And there will be far far less human drivers than in the day.


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    #883
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    defrule wrote: »
    Where I see this stuff useful is for overnight travel. Say you lived in Belfast but had to be in Cork the next day for business. Currently you would need to travel the day before and stay at a hotel, or you could travel very early in the morning.

    Imagine if you could have a self-driving car/pod that had a bed inside it. You would do everything as normal the previous day, then call for the car at 11PM, jump in and sleep. The car can be set to drive slower, 30mph for comfort, it would mean the journey takes longer but you're sleeping anyway so that doesn't matter. At 30mph you'll reach Cork say in 9 hours so 8AM, just in time to start the morning.

    Slow travel speed overnight would reduce risk of collisions. And there will be far far less human drivers than in the day.

    That gave me good laugh for the night


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    #884
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    That gave me good laugh for the night

    There was talk of sleeper trains or a sleeper here. Wont work moneywise. Self driving sleeping pods.. Nope.


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    #885
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,310 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    defrule wrote: »
    Where I see this stuff useful is for overnight travel. Say you lived in Belfast but had to be in Cork the next day for business. Currently you would need to travel the day before and stay at a hotel, or you could travel very early in the morning.

    Imagine if you could have a self-driving car/pod that had a bed inside it. You would do everything as normal the previous day, then call for the car at 11PM, jump in and sleep. The car can be set to drive slower, 30mph for comfort, it would mean the journey takes longer but you're sleeping anyway so that doesn't matter. At 30mph you'll reach Cork say in 9 hours so 8AM, just in time to start the morning.

    Slow travel speed overnight would reduce risk of collisions. And there will be far far less human drivers than in the day.

    It'd burned out travelling through the Shankhill at 30 mph at 1am!


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    #886
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 20,081 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    markodaly wrote: »
    This has been mentioned before but Tesla's are not self-driving. They are SAE level 2 and are not a leader in that field. A leader in electric cars sure, but not autonomous driving. According to Navigant Research, they are not even in the top 10 of those developing this tech.

    https://insideevs.com/tesla-autonomous-lags-gm-ford-waymo/

    You need to keep an eye on Waymo, who just announced a major expansion.

    https://techcrunch.com/2019/03/19/waymo-is-gearing-up-to-put-a-lot-more-self-driving-cars-on-the-road/

    Elon Musk made the following claims:
    Elon Musk claims that Tesla will have the technology for fully-autonomous vehicles ready by the end of the year. ..

    “The car will be able to find you in a parking lot, pick you up and take you all the way to your destination without an intervention. I would say I am of certain of that. That is not a question mark,” Musk stated.

    “My guess as to when we would think it is safe for somebody to essentially fall asleep and wake up at their destination? Probably towards the end of next year. That is when I think it would be safe enough for that,” the outspoken exec said.
    https://www.carscoops.com/2019/02/elon-musk-certain-teslas-fully-autonomous-systems-will-ready-year/

    I presume you don't believe him - neither do I, hence my comments.


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    #887
    defrule
    Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭defrule


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    There was talk of sleeper trains or a sleeper here. Wont work moneywise. Self driving sleeping pods.. Nope.

    To be fair nothing works here.


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    #888
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    cnocbui wrote: »
    Elon Musk made the following claims:

    https://www.carscoops.com/2019/02/elon-musk-certain-teslas-fully-autonomous-systems-will-ready-year/

    I presume you don't believe him - neither do I, hence my comments.

    I'm a big fan, but I take any predictions with a bucket of salt.

    He's a bit like Fastways, usually delivers, never on time.


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    #889
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,717 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/all-new-cars-could-be-fitted-with-speed-limiters-under-eu-plans-1.3840046

    Another step to self-driving cars...


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    #890
    RHJ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 925 ✭✭✭RHJ


    Unfortunately, the article linked to above appears to be behind a paywall so here is another article about the technology from New Scientist.

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2197941-driverless-car-learns-to-perform-high-speed-turns-without-crashing/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=SOC&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1bhh9JiSLs4pEGNwkRxGWCXZYugqbtAb9no7iWEDrJw49O2hBPOy2FGKU#Echobox=1553729956

    Or if you'd prefer to just read the scientific paper about the technology then here is the link to that.

    http://robotics.sciencemag.org/content/4/28/eaaw1975


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    #891
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    How Amazon demand drices autonomous truck tech

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMXivgUGVn8


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    #892
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    How Amazon demand drices autonomous truck tech

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMXivgUGVn8

    Its America. Train is the way for long distance. Rail freight in the US is increasing.

    I bought an item from an Ebay seller in California. It was going to the AnPost address pal place in NJ.

    He wanted to put a GPS tracker in the item. No problem I said. 3 days from CA to NJ on a train. No truck can do that.


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    #893
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    3 days from CA to NJ on a train. No truck can do that.

    Not yet..... Or didn't you watch the video? This was one of the main gains, that the limitations put on human drivers would not apply to AI driven trucks and could therefore be driven for much longer periods. This would then allow for the journey times to be slashed.


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    #894
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    Its America. Train is the way for long distance. Rail freight in the US is increasing.

    I bought an item from an Ebay seller in California. It was going to the AnPost address pal place in NJ.

    He wanted to put a GPS tracker in the item. No problem I said. 3 days from CA to NJ on a train. No truck can do that.
    Know what you mean about trains. Got stuck at a crossing for 15 minutes as the longest train I've ever seen went by.

    But there's millions of trucks on the road in the US. Feels like half the traffic on the interstate is trucks.


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    #895
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,621 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Ford CTO Ken Washington explains why self-driving cars are such a hard tech problem
    And why Tesla’s so-called Autopilot features are not really “self-driving.”
    https://www.recode.net/podcasts/2019/4/17/18411242/ken-washington-ford-self-driving-car-artificial-intelligence-kara-swisher-decode-podcast-interview


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    #896
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,717 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    Ford CTO Ken Washington explains why self-driving cars are such a hard tech problem
    And why Tesla’s so-called Autopilot features are not really “self-driving.”
    https://www.recode.net/podcasts/2019/4/17/18411242/ken-washington-ford-self-driving-car-artificial-intelligence-kara-swisher-decode-podcast-interview

    Yes, Tesla self-driving tech is not really self-driving. They are at best SAE level 2
    In terms of self-driving tech, they do not feature in the top 10.

    Keep an eye on what Waymo and GM are doing, it will be one of them that will pioneer the tech to make it safe and ubiquitous for 99% of use cases.


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    #897
    RHJ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 925 ✭✭✭RHJ


    Interesting news from Tesla they claim they will have full self driving operating by next year. I’m not sure whether they will be able to achieve that or not but I do hope they can.

    https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/290029-tesla-well-have-full-self-driving-by-2020-robo-taxis-too


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    #898
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    RHJ wrote: »
    Interesting news from Tesla they claim they will have full self driving operating by next year. I’m not sure whether they will be able to achieve that or not but I do hope they can.

    https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/290029-tesla-well-have-full-self-driving-by-2020-robo-taxis-too

    The said 2016, 2018, 2019 now it's 2020.

    I'll believe it when I see it. GM and Waymo don't thinks it's possible to do in a Tesla. They don't have the processing capability in the car.


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    #899
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 20,081 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    RHJ wrote: »
    Interesting news from Tesla they claim they will have full self driving operating by next year. I’m not sure whether they will be able to achieve that or not but I do hope they can.

    https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/290029-tesla-well-have-full-self-driving-by-2020-robo-taxis-too

    Musk is a bulldust artist trying to shift product in the face of unexpectedly low demand.

    Teslas don't even have LIDAR and are down near the bottom of the pack with Apple in terms of autonomous driving development. When Musk announced this nonsense, Teslas share price fell, because no one believes his guff.

    Not even the best autonomous driving system (waymo) is up to the unoccupied no human occupant/observer robo taxi scenario.


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    #900
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,580 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/vote-funicular-and-driverless-shuttle-for-the-phoenix-park-have-your-say-1.3869557

    Was surprised to see this yesterday in the Times. The OPW claim that a driverless shuttle bus is a 'readily achievable reality'. I'm curious where the OPW are getting this from? I know there was a driverless bus trial in the docklands a while ago but afaik, it was a disaster, despite the road being blocked off from other users. Is this just a case of someone in the OPW not actually researching commercial realities?


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    #901
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,092 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    cgcsb wrote: »
    I know there was a driverless bus trial in the docklands a while ago but afaik, it was a disaster, despite the road being blocked off from other users.
    I was on it for a brief spin up the quays. It had to run off-road, along side the river as there is no legislation to allow a driverless vehicle on a public road. It ran along a marked track, and worked reasonable well for what it did. There was one slightly jerky stop while I was on it, to avoid some 'invisible' obstruction. But it's a long way from working on a public road - maybe the Phoenix Park bye-laws might be a more friendly environment?


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