Poolbeg Incinerator

onimpulse

How did we let this happen?

The new Incinerator at Poolbeg is now up and running and is spewing out smoke almost non stop. Did we really need to build an incinerator so close to the city centre? Surely there were better locations?

While other cities in the world try to move industrial sites out of city centres we put new polluting buildings in areas that would otherwise be amazing recreational and scenic areas.

How short sighted and ignorant are our planners to allow this and how stupid are we that we didn't stop it?! Now we're stuck with it for decades most likely.

waxon-waxoff

Im guessing its steam not smoke spewing out of the chimney? I was going down Bath ave last week and i could'nt see the Poolbeg chimneys as there was a massive cloud of smoke/ steam blocking them out. Did nobody at planning realise there would be so much emissions?

So the landmark, iconic Poolbeg chimneys were spared the wrecking ball only to disappear in a low hanging cloud.

uck51js9zml2yt

It's emitting less toxins than the vehicles which use the roads in the surrounding area

. Let's ban cars!

gerrowadat

It's steam.

aliveandkicking

onimpulse wrote: »

How did we let this happen?

The new Incinerator at Poolbeg is now up and running and is spewing out smoke almost non stop. Did we really need to build an incinerator so close to the city centre? Surely there were better locations?

While other cities in the world try to move industrial sites out of city centres we put new polluting buildings in areas that would otherwise be amazing recreational and scenic areas.

How short sighted and ignorant are our planners to allow this and how stupid are we that we didn't stop it?! Now we're stuck with it for decades most likely.

The white "smoke" you can see is steam. The actual emissions from the incinerator is less than from all the cars and trucks using the roads around Dublin Port not to mention all the ships coming in and out of the port spewing out vast amounts of pollution from using dirty bunker fuel. Did you also know that literally right beside the incinerator is a gas fired power generation plant? That plant burns gas pretty much 24/7 and the resulting emissions is vastly more than from the incinerator.

When fully commissioned the incinerator will provide steam to the power plant meaning the power plant will be able to produce electricity using the steam from the incinerator. Rather than increasing pollution in the area the incinerator will actually reduce it as the power plant won't be burning as much gas. The clue is in the official name of the incinerator - Dublin Waste to Energy.

Maybe before forming such strong opinions on something it might be an idea to do a small bit of research on it?

odyssey06

I am glad to hear that it is steam.

That said it is an eyesore when the wind blows it back across the city. The steam stacks are too low. Its a pity there was no way to route it through the much taller Poolbeg stacks. Lets hope it is only temporary while the plant generator becomes operational.

onimpulse

aliveandkicking wrote: »

The white "smoke" you can see is steam. The actual emissions from the incinerator is less than from all the cars and trucks using the roads around Dublin Port not to mention all the ships coming in and out of the port spewing out vast amounts of pollution from using dirty bunker fuel. Did you also know that literally right beside the incinerator is a gas fired power generation plant? That plant burns gas pretty much 24/7 and the resulting emissions is vastly more than from the incinerator.

When fully commissioned the incinerator will provide steam to the power plant meaning the power plant will be able to produce electricity using the steam from the incinerator. Rather than increasing pollution in the area the incinerator will actually reduce it as the power plant won't be burning as much gas. The clue is in the official name of the incinerator - Dublin Waste to Energy.

Maybe before forming such strong opinions on something it might be an idea to do a small bit of research on it?

While I'm glad to hear it will eventually reduce pollution, why is the steam currently being emitted? Is that temporary? In any case, it's an eyesore. Go out today for a walk on Dollymount and tell me otherwise.

I know the area is zoned industrial but I think that should be revised, we should be reclaiming spaces like that for recreational use not further industrialising them. There was a proposal a few years ago to move the Port north to near Drogheda, I would fully support such a move so we can clean up our beaches and the port area. We have amazing natural resources in terms of tourism and recreation in Dublin, overshadowed by industry and pollution. Most cities are now making moves to rezone areas like this as recreational or commercial and moving industrial area out of city centres. We're doing the exact opposite which is really disappointing.

onimpulse

Simeon Deafening Clothespin wrote: »

It's emitting less toxins than the vehicles which use the roads in the surrounding area

. Let's ban cars!

How much additional traffic is it generating?

alastair

onimpulse wrote: »

While I'm glad to hear it will eventually reduce pollution, why is the steam currently being emitted? Is that temporary? In any case, it's an eyesore. Go out today for a walk on Dollymount and tell me otherwise.

It's no more an eyesore than the rest of the power/industrial structures that have been along there since before any of us were born. It's emitting steam as it's been operational as an incinerator for a number of weeks now. Personally I don't think the steam is remotely unsightly.

onimpulse

alastair wrote: »

It's no more an eyesore than the rest of the power/industrial structures that have been along there since before any of us were born. It's emitting steam as it's been operational as an incinerator for a number of weeks now. Personally I don't think the steam is remotely unsightly.

And because it's like that since before most of us were born - we can't possibly consider changing that... we have to make it worse?

odyssey06

alastair wrote: »

It's no more an eyesore than the rest of the power/industrial structures that have been along there since before any of us were born. It's emitting steam as it's been operational as an incinerator for a number of weeks now. Personally I don't think the steam is remotely unsightly.

The steam is the eyesore. It creates a dreadful impression especially considering that visiting cruise liners sail right past it.

alastair

onimpulse wrote: »

And because it's like that since before most of us were born - we can't possibly consider changing that... we have to make it worse?

It's not being made worse, and it makes perfect sense that an industrial area would be the location for an industrial activity. The primary landmark of the area was, for decades, pumping actual toxic smoke out, and yet it's a well loved icon of the city. A bit of stream, that actually dissipates within close proximity to the incinerator is really offensive to no-one with a modicum of perspective.

alastair

odyssey06 wrote: »

The steam is the eyesore. It creates a dreadful impression especially considering that visiting cruise liners sail right past it.

No doubt they're equally offended by the typical port structures in pretty much all city ports then. but I supposed if you're determined to look past generating stations - active and derelict, brownfield dereliction and carparks, gasometers, fuel dumps, stockyards, sewage treatment plants, and the roll-on roll-off freight activities, they could well be alarmed at the sight of a bit of steam.

odyssey06

alastair wrote: »

No doubt they're equally offended by the typical port structures in pretty much all city ports then. but I supposed if you're determined to look past generating stations - active and derelict, brownfield dereliction and carparks, gasometers, fuel dumps, stockyards, sewage treatment plants, and the roll-on roll-off freight activities, they could well be alarmed at the sight of a bit of steam.

How are they supposed to know it is steam?

They dont know it is steam... they expect most of those things at a port. They probably don't expect whats looks like a smoking power plant.
It looks awful. If I think that, I guarantee so do most of the cruise visitors. It creates an awful impression coming into the city.
Appearances matter when it comes to tourism.

alastair

odyssey06 wrote: »

How are they supposed to know it is steam?

They dont know it is steam... they expect most of those things at a port. They probably don't expect whats looks like a smoking power plant.
It looks awful. If I think that, I guarantee so do most of the cruise visitors. It creates an awful impression coming into the city.
Appearances matter when it comes to tourism.

It doesn't look like smoke, it looks like steam. And it's not impacting on any cruise ship tourists - the port is pig ugly in any case - they're going elsewhere in Dublin.

BTW - the busiest tourist attraction in the country:


The steam there doesn't seem to dissuade the tourists.

onimpulse

alastair wrote: »

It's not being made worse, and it makes perfect sense that an industrial area would be the location for an industrial activity. The primary landmark of the area was, for decades, pumping actual toxic smoke out, and yet it's a well loved icon of the city. A bit of stream, that actually dissipates within close proximity to the incinerator is really offensive to no-one with a modicum of perspective.

I disagree.The fact that the area has been worse in the past doesn't mean this is ok. Can we not aim to clean up the city, in particular areas like this which are visible and in close proximity to recreational areas (our cities beaches for example).

Or maybe your rational which excuses lack of vision by citing the poor history of planning in the city is exactly the type of attitude which limits ambition and achievements in this country.

alastair

onimpulse wrote: »

I disagree.The fact that the area has been worse in the past doesn't mean this is ok. Can we not aim to clean up the city, in particular areas like this which are visible and in close proximity to recreational areas (our cities beaches for example).

Or maybe your rational which excuses lack of vision by citing the poor history of planning in the city is exactly the type of attitude which limits ambition and achievements in this country.

It's not about being 'worse in the past'. It's an industrial area, and will remain so, as long as it's a working port. Nothing 'ambitious' in attempting to pretend that steam is smoke, and that you can relocate sewage works away from the city that they serve. The area serves multiple necessary purposes for the life of the city, and the consequent industrial structures really don't impact on tourism, or the enjoyment of the beaches - which continue to be highly popular.

onimpulse

alastair wrote: »

It's not about being 'worse in the past'. It's an industrial area, and will remain so, as long as it's a working port. Nothing 'ambitious' in attempting to pretend that steam is smoke, and that you can relocate sewage works away from the city that they serve. The area serves multiple necessary purposes for the life of the city, and the consequent industrial structures really don't impact on tourism, or the enjoyment of the beaches - which continue to be highly popular.

Please refrain from inaccurate accusations in an attempt to discredit my argument.

I find it amusing that you mention sewage works and enjoyment of beaches so shortly after no swim notices at Dublin main beaches.

The area does not have to be industrial and should not be. The fact you and others can't even consider such a possibility is a limiting factor in the future positive development of this city.

alastair

onimpulse wrote: »

I find it amusing that you mention sewage works and enjoyment of beaches so shortly after no swim notices at Dublin main beaches.

The area does not have to be industrial and should not be. The fact you and others can't even consider such a possibility is a limiting factor in the future positive development of this city.

Not sure why you're amused. The point of the sewage treatment plant is to avoid raw sewage entering the sea. It's the absence of sewage treatment that brings about no swim notices.

The intrinsic nature of a working port is that it's industrial. Sorry if this poses difficulties for you.

hidinginthebush

This incinerator burns solid household waste at extremely high temperatures. The heat generated by this burning is used to power turbines which generate electricity. The leftover ash, metals, etc. are retrieved or recycled (eg ash can be used for fertilisers).

The general public are mainly fearful of the emissions from these plants, however, as pointed out, the plant mainly emits steam. The exhaust puts out numerous particulates, dioxins, etc., but these are removed via a process called "scrubbing" of the gas, which removes these nasty chemicals through filtering through lime, carbon, and physical means.

It is safe and environmental solution, and these plants are stringently monitored, with any infringement on the rules reported to, and punished by the EPA accordingly, in line with Irish and European guidelines. The EPA are well within their powers to inspect the site at any stage and can at a moment's notice close this site if it is found to be unsafe.

While some people bemoan the existence of the plant, the alternative is to construct or send the waste to one of our already overfill landfill sites, or to export the waste to be burned / disposed abroad at great cost, I think I'd settle for a steam-emitting, power-generating plant every time.

Interested Observer

Every single angle possible is being covered here to be outraged at, it's remarkable.

"Whaaaa smoke!"
"It's not smoke"
"That doesn't matter!"

I mean what the hell?

onimpulse wrote: »

How much additional traffic is it generating?

All traffic to the plant, bar that coming from Ringsend itself, including traffic coming from the south, is routed through the Port Tunnel. So it's putting a few extra vehicles on the motorways of the city. It is generating no extra traffic in the city itself.

screamer

Shock horror Dublin being expected to deal with its own waste! Better get used to it cause there's not enough waste in Ireland to keep the incinerator fed and running at capacity. Waste will be imported to keep it burning at full capacity that's why it was built by the port....rocket science isn't it.

uck51js9zml2yt

Typical boards.
Outrage at its "smoke" which is really not smoke.
Outrage at its shape, outrage at its location....the list goes on.
Much better to send everything to landfill , it doesn't create steam.
No one is outraged at all the people standing outside pubs smoking and filling out lungs with toxins as we pass by!

I actually think it looks quiet nice coming in from sandymount.
One of the best thing is to happen in Dublin (prior to Tyrone being beaten at the weekend)

odyssey06

Simeon Deafening Clothespin wrote: »

Typical boards...
Much better to send everything to landfill , it doesn't create steam.

Rubbish. Literally.

Where did anyone say that??? Go back through the thread.
Please find me the reference where that was said.

Typical boards ... If you raise any sort of objection to something, you're assumed to oppose all progress and must be shouted down.

screamer

odyssey06 wrote: »

Rubbish. Literally.

Where did anyone say that??? Go back through the thread.
Please find me the reference where that was said.

Typical boards ... If you raise any sort of objection to something, you're assumed to oppose all progress and must be shouted down.

The time for concerns is long gone poolbeg had one of the longest most disputed planning applications ever. The incinerator has some of the most modern technology and has cost millions and they have to be recouped now. But sure good old nimbyism prevails.

odyssey06

hidinginthebush wrote: »

While some people bemoan the existence of the plant, the alternative is to construct or send the waste to one of our already overfill landfill sites, or to export the waste to be burned / disposed abroad at great cost, I think I'd settle for a steam-emitting, power-generating plant every time.

Was that the only alternative???
Strange you don't consider any other alternative locations in which to build it?
The equation you have constructed seems to be: build the plant in Dublin Port or else no plant.
Maybe Dublin Port was the only place for it, I don't know.
But I don't buy the formula as presented.

I'm not objecting to a power-generating incinerator full stop.
I'm saying I'm not sure it was put in the best location, given it's effect on the skyline view of the city.
I'm glad to hear it's steam coming out of it but not smoke - I'm not sure how the lay person is supposed to realise that though.

odyssey06

screamer wrote: »

The time for concerns is long gone poolbeg had one of the longest most disputed planning applications ever. The incinerator has some of the most modern technology and has cost millions and they have to be recouped now. But sure good old nimbyism prevails.

Anyone opposed to the deployment of modern technology is engaged in NIMBYISM. You read it here.
You can roll that argument out to defend the Death Star! Come on now.

We should change the planning process: "Will your device\structure use the most modern technology"?
Yes: "Grand, put it anywhere you like."
No: "Please tick Yes."

If we're going to have a Death Star can we at least have one that looks a bit sleeker?

killbillvol2

What submissions did the OP and/or odyssey06 make during the multiple public consultations on this issue?

TheChizler

odyssey06 wrote: »

How are they supposed to know it is steam?

They dont know it is steam... they expect most of those things at a port. They probably don't expect whats looks like a smoking power plant.
It looks awful. If I think that, I guarantee so do most of the cruise visitors. It creates an awful impression coming into the city.
Appearances matter when it comes to tourism.

The vast majority of "smoke" from modern power plants is in fact steam, unlike the diesel exhaust coming out of the cruise liner they're on.

odyssey06

killbillvol2 wrote: »

What submissions did the OP and/or odyssey06 make during the multiple public consultations on this issue?

There was no public consultatation on this. There was a sham process.

Dublin City Council ignored the overwhelming vote of its own councillors on the issue. The vote was 50 out of 52 councillors against the proposal.

In what city do you think a Council which ignores the officials I elected will pay the slightest heed to a submission it doesn't like by an ordinary voter?
Hint: it's not this one.

wordofwarning

hidinginthebush wrote: »

This incinerator burns solid household waste at extremely high temperatures. The heat generated by this burning is used to power turbines which generate electricity. The leftover ash, metals, etc. are retrieved or recycled (eg ash can be used for fertilisers).

The remaining hot water can be used to heat homes. The new developments close to the site will likely use the hot water for heating etc. This is another bonus

There appears to be more outrage from this plant actually disposing of waste in a safe manner than the illegal dumping found in Wicklow/Donegal. There is more outrage from the highly regulated plant than illegal waste getting into ground water etc.