Eirgrid figures during night time EV charging

antoinolachtnai

KCross wrote: »

Sad to see that it is not a permanent thing.

Although if the grid can handle the winter peaks without it, I presume it would be a massive easy win for the government in relation to our CO2 emissions?

We'd need alot of EV's on the road to match the emissions from moneypoint!

The other thing then is, does moneypoint being down cause electricity prices to go up due to more expensive gas/oil? Is that why we have seen the increases recently?

Well, the general price of oil and gas went up over the last year. The price of electricity went up in corresponding measure. However, oil has fallen again in the last few weeks.

The day-ahead price of electricity has gone up the last few days. Today, it was €281/MWh for two hours, which is pretty high. It is honestly hard to say what this really means.

KCross

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Well, the general price of oil and gas went up over the last year. The price of electricity went up in corresponding measure. However, oil has fallen again in the last few weeks.

The day-ahead price of electricity has gone up the last few days. Today, it was €281/MWh for two hours, which is pretty high. It is honestly hard to say what this really means.

There is very little wind forecast for the next 24hrs so maybe that means more gas being burned and hence up the price goes?

antoinolachtnai

Well this is for the current 24 hours. But for sure, low wind is a major cause. The more proximate cause arising from that is that more expensive (OCGT) gas plants are being called. If there were more coal in the mix, then this more expensive power might not be required and the higher price might not need to be paid.

This does not mean that having coal plants is a good idea of course. It just means that with fewer coal plants, you potentially have higher electricity prices at the peak times.

n97 mini

The elephant in the room is still agriculture, the single biggest green house gas emitter at 35% of total output. At least the new minister acknowledged this on the radio today, even though he's as rural as the last.

KCross

n97 mini wrote: »

The elephant in the room is still agriculture, the single biggest green house gas emitter at 35% of total output. At least the new minister acknowledged this on the radio today, even though he's as rural as the last.

How do you deal with that though?
You cant abandon it, like you can coal or diesel cars etc.

If you did nuke it somehow you would then be importing your food and hence just shifting that production to somewhere else and increasing our food cost. I havent heard a solution to it yet other than some tinkering around the edges with biofuels, more forestries etc but nothing that really changes the figures much.

n97 mini

KCross wrote: »

How do you deal with that though?
You cant abandon it, like you can coal or diesel cars etc.

If you did nuke it somehow you would then be importing your food and hence just shifting that production to somewhere else and increasing our food cost. I havent heard a solution to it yet other than some tinkering around the edges with biofuels, more forestries etc but nothing that really changes the figures much.

Beef is the biggest problem. We're producing 6 times more beef than we consume. The rest is exported... 50% of beef total production goes to the UK.

Tinkering around the edges, yes, but there is nothing being done to reduce the size of the beef herd. In fact the opposite is happening: Bord Bia are currently trying to sell Irish beef to China.

conor_mc

n97 mini wrote: »

Beef is the biggest problem. We're producing 6 times more beef than we consume. The rest is exported... 50% of beef total production goes to the UK

So a hard brexit will save us a fortune in carbon penalties..... every cloud and all that!

n97 mini

conor_mc wrote: »

So a hard brexit will save us a fortune in carbon penalties..... every cloud and all that!

That could actually happen! Any beef farmers I know are very worried about Brexit.

marno21

New max wind output set last night at 20:15 of 3,990MW.

It's still early in the Winter so we could break 4,000MW before the winter ends.

unkel

I've been watching the figure on and off over the past few weeks and it is quite impressive. A good bit more wind, a lot more PV and we should be hitting 100% regularly in a few years time.

denismc

It would be interesting to know what all the domestic pv systems in this country are generating. There must be some data somewhere, don't all pv installs have to be registered with the ESB?

antoinolachtnai

It’s a few thousand installs, generating up to 4kW each. So on a really sunny day it’s maybe 10 to 20 MW.

But there isn’t much use for that electricity. If it is generated on a sunny and windy day, the wind generation might even have to be curtailed to facilitate it.

unkel

denismc wrote: »

It would be interesting to know what all the domestic pv systems in this country are generating.

The number of domestic PV systems in Ireland is embarrassingly low and they make feck all difference to the % renewable. Agree with you though it would be interesting to know some figures.

KCross

Update to OP

% Wind vs Demand from 4-8am

Date|% Wind(4am-8am)|Low|High|gCO2/kW(4am-8am)|Low|High|Total Wind %(24hr)|Total Coal %(24hr)|Total Gas %(24hr)
28/7-26/8 2017|28|0|58|365|288|433|24
25/8-23/9|26|1|67|375|259|458|24
23/9-22/10|36|1|62|305|210|429|34
22/10-19/11|29|1|62|334|225|421|23
20/11-18/12|38|5|68|347|224|463|30|16|39
19/12-17/1 2018|46|3|75|331|209|472|39|13|35
17/1-15/2|50|4|75|295|215|500|42|12|33
15/2-16/3|35|1|71|371|215|522|33|20|39
16/3-14/4|29|0|71|373|211|513|26|17|43
14/4-13/5|32|2|82|291|247|336|32|9|45
13/5-11/6|14|1|62||||13|7|66
11/6-10/7|19|1|75||||18|8|65
10/7-8/8|18|1|67|316|212|372|17|6|68
8/8-5/9|30|1|73|319|224|447|26|6|59
6/9-5/10|34|5|74|332|208|440|32|5|49
5/10-3/11|37|1|76|323|204|437|32|0|52
3/11-2/12|51|18|75|276|201|390|44|0|45
2/12-31/12|47|3|80|266|203|393|40|0|42


Coal still at 0% for Dec but alas the current live data shows coal at 5% today so it appears they are firing it up again!

unkel

KCross wrote: »

alas the current live data shows coal at 5% today so it appears they are firing it up again!

Looks like it

Just when the last few months proved that we don't need it anymore. Why the hell did they start it up again?

n97 mini

unkel wrote: »

Looks like it

Just when the last few months proved that we don't need it anymore. Why the hell did they start it up again?

Probably a combination of existing contracts, and to provide employment.

The peat burning plants are all still online "for strategic reasons", but realistically it's political reasons. No TD in the midlands would be re-elected if they were disposed of. Worse again, part of your PSO levy goes to these strategic stations.

antoinolachtnai

We did not prove anything of the sort I don’t think. We just had some mild days and two other old and fairly dirty plants has to be called to make up the difference.

The plant also provides a reserve (in the form of a mountain of coal) which can keep the grid going even in aome sort of international fuel crisis.

KCross

Wind is at almost zero right now, Gas is at 60% so maybe they had to fire up the coal plants?

antoinolachtnai

What is run is really determined by the market. Whatever plants ask below the day ahead price gets to run by and large and whatever doesn’t ask low enough doesn’t run. Up until a week ago moneypoint wasn’t putting in any ask. The cost of carbon is factored into the bids that are made.

washman3

Does ardnacrusha hydro-station contribute anything or is just a museum at this stage.?

unkel

washman3 wrote: »

Does ardnacrusha hydro-station contribute anything or is just a museum at this stage.?

Ardnacrusha was the grid when it opened. It provided 100% of Ireland's electricity needs. Last time I looked it still provided 2%. Not bad for a plant that's 90 years old. Surely it will have paid for itself many times over (while being 100% renewable / zero emissions)

Thanks to the vision of this man:

washman3

Ya, it was an incredible feat of engineering for that era.
The Germans certainly knew how to design things.

n97 mini

Ardnacrusha is the reason there are no salmon in the Shannon. Some people argue the lost tourism is now worth more than the electricity generated. Could be, but I'm not sure.

But it's obvious other hydro plants, like Leixlip, are doing more damage to the eco system than they're worth.

ted1

n97 mini wrote: »

Ardnacrusha is the reason there are no salmon in the Shannon. Some people argue the lost tourism is now worth more than the electricity generated. Could be, but I'm not sure.

But it's obvious other hydro plants, like Leixlip, are doing more damage to the eco system than they're worth.

Really ? The dolphins manage fine.

ted1

KCross wrote: »

Update to OP

% Wind vs Demand from 4-8am

Date|% Wind(4am-8am)|Low|High|gCO2/kW(4am-8am)|Low|High|Total Wind %(24hr)|Total Coal %(24hr)|Total Gas %(24hr)
28/7-26/8 2017|28|0|58|365|288|433|24
25/8-23/9|26|1|67|375|259|458|24
23/9-22/10|36|1|62|305|210|429|34
22/10-19/11|29|1|62|334|225|421|23
20/11-18/12|38|5|68|347|224|463|30|16|39
19/12-17/1 2018|46|3|75|331|209|472|39|13|35
17/1-15/2|50|4|75|295|215|500|42|12|33
15/2-16/3|35|1|71|371|215|522|33|20|39
16/3-14/4|29|0|71|373|211|513|26|17|43
14/4-13/5|32|2|82|291|247|336|32|9|45
13/5-11/6|14|1|62||||13|7|66
11/6-10/7|19|1|75||||18|8|65
10/7-8/8|18|1|67|316|212|372|17|6|68
8/8-5/9|30|1|73|319|224|447|26|6|59
6/9-5/10|34|5|74|332|208|440|32|5|49
5/10-3/11|37|1|76|323|204|437|32|0|52
3/11-2/12|51|18|75|276|201|390|44|0|45
2/12-31/12|47|3|80|266|203|393|40|0|42


Coal still at 0% for Dec but alas the current live data shows coal at 5% today so it appears they are firing it up again!

Money point is back online. ( only 1 unit so far, 2 more back shortly) Was offline for maintenance as cracks were found in the rotor

omicron

n97 mini wrote: »

Beef is the biggest problem. We're producing 6 times more beef than we consume. The rest is exported... 50% of beef total production goes to the UK.

Tinkering around the edges, yes, but there is nothing being done to reduce the size of the beef herd. In fact the opposite is happening: Bord Bia are currently trying to sell Irish beef to China.

Assigning the carbon emissions from agriculture to the country the food is produced in is like assigning the carbon emissions from fossil fuels to the country they were mined or drilled in.
The food will and has to be produced regardless unless consumers decide to no longer eat high carbon food, it'll just be imported from elsewhere.

Also it's largely ignored that the vast majority of the total carbon coming from dairy and beef production comes from cows digesting plants that in turn sequestered the carbon in the first place in the previous 12 months. It's not coming from burning fossil fuels that was carbon sequestered millions of years ago.

n97 mini

omicron wrote: »

Assigning the carbon emissions from agriculture to the country the food is produced in is like assigning the carbon emissions from fossil fuels to the country they were mined or drilled in.
The food will and has to be produced regardless unless consumers decide to no longer eat high carbon food, it'll just be imported from elsewhere.

Maybe, but it's how the system works. We're going to be fined as a result of the beef *we* produce that Britain and elsewhere consumes. Let them produce their own, or better again, import from a country that isn't going to be up to its neck in fines.

Johnboy1951

omicron wrote: »

Assigning the carbon emissions from agriculture to the country the food is produced in is like assigning the carbon emissions from fossil fuels to the country they were mined or drilled in.
The food will and has to be produced regardless unless consumers decide to no longer eat high carbon food, it'll just be imported from elsewhere.

Also it's largely ignored that the vast majority of the total carbon coming from dairy and beef production comes from cows digesting plants that in turn sequestered the carbon in the first place in the previous 12 months. It's not coming from burning fossil fuels that was carbon sequestered millions of years ago.

Indeed that is one of the biggest biases in the whole scheme.

The modern method of grazing is the most carbon neutral of all, where the animals eat the freshly grown plant parts with the highest concentration of sequestered carbon.

Johnboy1951

n97 mini wrote: »

Maybe, but it's how the system works. We're going to be fined as a result of the beef *we* produce that Britain and elsewhere consumes. Let them produce their own, or better again, import from a country that isn't going to be up to its neck in fines.

Do you have some suggestions with what to replace all those exports that this country's economy is dependant on?

denismc

In the last 30 years the milk yield of the average cow has been increased by 30% through selective breeding.
I don't see why the same technique couldn't to produce a cow that produces less gas but there would need to be some economic incentive which seems unlikely.

ted1

omicron wrote: »

Assigning the carbon emissions from agriculture to the country the food is produced in is like assigning the carbon emissions from fossil fuels to the country they were mined or drilled in.
The food will and has to be produced regardless unless consumers decide to no longer eat high carbon food, it'll just be imported from elsewhere.

Also it's largely ignored that the vast majority of the total carbon coming from dairy and beef production comes from cows digesting plants that in turn sequestered the carbon in the first place in the previous 12 months. It's not coming from burning fossil fuels that was carbon sequestered millions of years ago.

No that’s rubbish. The food can be produced differently, they can but down on nitrates. But most importantly people can change their diet to a more substainable one

Gael23

Are Easygo.ie a new player in EV charging?

Carawaystick

denismc wrote: »

In the last 30 years the milk yield of the average cow has been increased by 30% through selective breeding.
I don't see why the same technique couldn't to produce a cow that produces less gas but there would need to be some economic incentive which seems unlikely.

It's not the cows, but the bacteria in their stomachs digesting the grass, making methane

ted1

Carawaystick wrote: »

It's not the cows, but the bacteria in their stomachs digesting the grass, making methane

Ah here, without the cow there would be no bacteria. Let’s just say cow....

Recent studies have been done including sea weed based diets which did reduce the amount of methane.
So by changing the diet of the cow. You can control the damage

ELM327

Gael23 wrote: »

Are Easygo.ie a new player in EV charging?

No, they are a company that have been around for some time, including as "Car Charger.ie" and others.


They have recent tie in deals with Lidl apparently

KCross

ted1 wrote: »

But most importantly people can change their diet to a more substainable one

Reading between the lines are you saying we should all become vegan?

ted1 wrote: »

Recent studies have been done including sea weed based diets which did reduce the amount of methane.
So by changing the diet of the cow. You can control the damage

You could, but I'd wonder how the beef would taste then as the feed used directly affects taste in all products (e.g. free range eggs).

I think it is a good point that relatively speaking our dairy industry is not as bad as other countries for emissions but we get hit with the fines to sell them our meat.

The system is flawed but it is what it is. I dont see an easy way out. Telling people to stop eating meat or shutting the industry down is too simplistic.


In any case, I dont think Eirgrid care

n97 mini

We don't need to change our diets at all. We just need to stop growing so much beef for other countries! A lot of diesel tourism from Northern Ireland too... we sell them chape diesel, they go back to NI and burn it, but it counts towards RoI's figures.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Indeed that is one of the biggest biases in the whole scheme.

The modern method of grazing is the most carbon neutral of all, where the animals eat the freshly grown plant parts with the highest concentration of sequestered carbon.

It's not remotely close to carbon neutral according to recent scientific studies.

This report concludes that grass-fed livestock are not a climate solution. Grazing livestock are net contributors to the climate problem, as are all livestock.

Link

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Do you have some suggestions with what to replace all those exports that this country's economy is dependant on?

We're not dependent on beef exports, it only accounts for less than 3% of exports. I do believe many farmers are switching to tillage ahead of Brexit.

ted1

KCross wrote: »

Reading between the lines are you saying we should all become vegan?




You could, but I'd wonder how the beef would taste then as the feed used directly affects taste in all products (e.g. free range eggs).

It would be better if we all turned Vegan. I love my meat but have committed to skipping it 2 days a week.

A seaweed diet could go well. It’d be close to a surf n’ turf

KCross

ted1 wrote: »

It would be better if we all turned Vegan. I love my meat but have committed to skipping it 2 days a week.

A seaweed diet could go well. It’d be close to a surf n’ turf

Well, I'm with Danny!
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/healy-rae-people-giving-up-meat-have-never-worked-a-hard-day-in-their-lives-897723.html

Do you work ted!

"Them fellas that are talking about stopping people eating meat have never worked hard.

"Whether 'tis bacon and cabbage or whether 'tis beef or mutton stew, if you don't have that you won't rise out the following day."

unkel

KCross wrote: »

Well, I'm with Danny!

Back into a diesel with ya, boi

Johnboy1951

It was good to read this

Minister for Finance and Public Expenditure and Reform, Paschal Donohoe has welcomed the Ireland Strategic Investment Fund (ISIF) announcement of its divestment from 38 global fossil fuel companies.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/donohoe-ireland-to-withdraw-public-money-from-investment-in-fossil-fuels-895625.html

KCross

Seems 2 of the 3 generators are back online.... Coal accounting for ~12% of todays generation.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/moneypoint-furnaces-fired-up-after-shutdown-37752322.html

n97 mini

KCross wrote: »

Seems 2 of the 3 generators are back online.... Coal accounting for ~12% of todays generation.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/moneypoint-furnaces-fired-up-after-shutdown-37752322.html

Boo!

It is also not clear what will replace the coal-burning portion of the plant when it is decommissioned with different plans under consideration, including its transformation into a biofuel station

We're drowning in a sea of plastic! Why there was a waste incinerator built on prime city centre land is beyond me. Ship it all to Moneypoint instead.

KCross

Update to OP

% Wind vs Demand from 4-8am

Date|% Wind(4am-8am)|Low|High|gCO2/kW(4am-8am)|Low|High|Total Wind %(24hr)|Total Coal %(24hr)|Total Gas %(24hr)
28/7-26/8 2017|28|0|58|365|288|433|24
25/8-23/9|26|1|67|375|259|458|24
23/9-22/10|36|1|62|305|210|429|34
22/10-19/11|29|1|62|334|225|421|23
20/11-18/12|38|5|68|347|224|463|30|16|39
19/12-17/1 2018|46|3|75|331|209|472|39|13|35
17/1-15/2|50|4|75|295|215|500|42|12|33
15/2-16/3|35|1|71|371|215|522|33|20|39
16/3-14/4|29|0|71|373|211|513|26|17|43
14/4-13/5|32|2|82|291|247|336|32|9|45
13/5-11/6|14|1|62||||13|7|66
11/6-10/7|19|1|75||||18|8|65
10/7-8/8|18|1|67|316|212|372|17|6|68
8/8-5/9|30|1|73|319|224|447|26|6|59
6/9-5/10|34|5|74|332|208|440|32|5|49
5/10-3/11|37|1|76|323|204|437|32|0|52
3/11-2/12|51|18|75|276|201|390|44|0|45
2/12-31/12|47|3|80|266|203|393|40|0|42
31/12-29/1 2019|36|4|77|341|203|499|30|5|46


As stated earlier, Moneypoint is back online so the 5% Coal above is the average over the month but it wasnt online for the full month, its actually up to 10%+ right now.

A week of sub-zero temperatures for the week ahead will I'm sure drive fossil fuel usage up.

Interesting point in the stats as well is that gCO2/kW back in Sep was 332 when coal was at 5%. It then dropped to mid ~200s when Moneypoint was offline for a few months and is now back up to 341 when its back online. Its a reasonable indication of what our gCO2/kWh figure would be if Moneypoint stayed offline.

ted1

n97 mini wrote: »

Boo!



We're drowning in a sea of plastic! Why there was a waste incinerator built on prime city centre land is beyond me. Ship it all to Moneypoint instead.

Adjacent, to a poo factory isn’t prime city centre land. Nor is adjacent to two other power plants , scrap metal yard.

It’s also where the waste is and reduces carbon emissions by not sending trucks down the country.

Also if Dublin City do their job the waste to energy plant will be providing a heat source for district heating

n97 mini

ted1 wrote: »

Adjacent, to a poo factory isn’t prime city centre land. Nor is adjacent to two other power plants , scrap metal yard.

It’s also where the waste is and reduces carbon emissions by not sending trucks down the country.

The most expensive land in the country is within a 2 mile radius of the Covanta plant.

I didn't say send it by trucks. I said ship it.. Call at Waterford, Cork and Limerick on the way. Or if that's not good enough, extend the rail line.

ted1

n97 mini wrote: »

The most expensive land in the country is within a 2 mile radius of the Covanta plant.

I didn't say send it by trucks. I said ship it.. Call at Waterford, Cork and Limerick on the way. Or if that's not good enough, extend the rail line.

2 miles is a long way. It’s an industrial that has a poo factory , power plants, cement factories , still breaker yards, container yards.
These are all required to make a city work

ewj1978

ship it where exactly?

KCross

Update to OP

% Wind vs Demand from 4-8am

Date|% Wind(4am-8am)|Low|High|gCO2/kW(4am-8am)|Low|High|Total Wind %(24hr)|Total Coal %(24hr)|Total Gas %(24hr)
28/7-26/8 2017|28|0|58|365|288|433|24
25/8-23/9|26|1|67|375|259|458|24
23/9-22/10|36|1|62|305|210|429|34
22/10-19/11|29|1|62|334|225|421|23
20/11-18/12|38|5|68|347|224|463|30|16|39
19/12-17/1 2018|46|3|75|331|209|472|39|13|35
17/1-15/2|50|4|75|295|215|500|42|12|33
15/2-16/3|35|1|71|371|215|522|33|20|39
16/3-14/4|29|0|71|373|211|513|26|17|43
14/4-13/5|32|2|82|291|247|336|32|9|45
13/5-11/6|14|1|62||||13|7|66
11/6-10/7|19|1|75||||18|8|65
10/7-8/8|18|1|67|316|212|372|17|6|68
8/8-5/9|30|1|73|319|224|447|26|6|59
6/9-5/10|34|5|74|332|208|440|32|5|49
5/10-3/11|37|1|76|323|204|437|32|0|52
3/11-2/12|51|18|75|276|201|390|44|0|45
2/12-31/12|47|3|80|266|203|393|40|0|42
31/12-29/1 2019|36|4|77|341|203|499|30|5|46
30/1-27/2|56|12|77|273|208|411|48|5|35


New record... 56% of night time charging over the last month was renewable!

There has been an increase in the number of anti-EV folks posting recently about how EV's arent really zero emissions and its just shifting it to the power plant. This table and the new high of 56% shows how ridiculous that argument is.

0% of an ICE is renewable!

ted1

KCross wrote: »

0% of an ICE is renewable!

Doesn’t petrol contain 10% biofuel? So therefore 10% of ICE is renewable