Bulking for size and strength

Dwellerstew

Hey, so I kind of took a break from my diet, but I want to start bulking consistently gain so I can put on size and strength, primarily strength, I'm currently 81kg(178lbs) about 13 or 14 bodyfat percent, standing at 185cm(6ft 1), my goal is to get up to 110kg and maintain that by recomposing, I've done some research, and I found out that size and weight usually correlates with bones size, and since my bones are fairly big I could probably get up to 110kg and stay at 15% body fat. The only thing I was wondering, how long should I be putting on a month, I personally was thinking about putting on 2kg to 2.5kg a month since i want to reach my goal by September 1st 2018, is this bulk too rushed and how should I approach this bulk? All answers are appreciated thanks

Dtp1979

This would probably interest you
http://revolutionfitness.emlnk1.com/lt.php?i=612A685A25A22144

Dwellerstew

Dtp1979 wrote: »

This would probably interest you
http://revolutionfitness.emlnk1.com/lt.php?i=612A685A25A22144

I read that 2 years ago, that has already been debunked, size matter about the persons bone structure, just because 2 guys have the same height won't mean they will have same maximum potential of muscle growth, I know naturals at 245lbs 15% bodyfat and 6ft 2, while others can't even reach 230lbs and stay at 15% bodyfat, it's all about bone size

Transform

Dwellerstew wrote: »

Hey, so I kind of took a break from my diet, but I want to start bulking consistently gain so I can put on size and strength, primarily strength, I'm currently 81kg(178lbs) about 13 or 14 bodyfat percent, standing at 185cm(6ft 1), my goal is to get up to 110kg and maintain that by recomposing, I've done some research, and I found out that size and weight usually correlates with bones size, and since my bones are fairly big I could probably get up to 110kg and stay at 15% body fat. The only thing I was wondering, how long should I be putting on a month, I personally was thinking about putting on 2kg to 2.5kg a month since i want to reach my goal by September 1st 2018, is this bulk too rushed and how should I approach this bulk? All answers are appreciated thanks

110kg - why though?

Im an inch taller than you, weigh about 92kg, fairly lean year round and couldnt fathom getting even over 100kg without the use of drugs or just getting seriously fat and out of shape

Blacktie.

Dwellerstew wrote: »

I read that 2 years ago, that has already been debunked, size matter about the persons bone structure, just because 2 guys have the same height won't mean they will have same maximum potential of muscle growth, I know naturals at 245lbs 15% bodyfat and 6ft 2, while others can't even reach 230lbs and stay at 15% bodyfat, it's all about bone size

Debunked where? I've only seen this reconfirmed many times.

Also can't see how you read it two years ago when it was only releases two weeks ago...

Alf Veedersane

Tbh, I don't think there's a hope that you can add 2-2.5kg per month for 15 months and stay at 15%. Not without some pharmaceutical assistance anyway and even then it might be a stretch.

Mellor

Dwellerstew wrote: »

Dtp1979 wrote: »

This would probably interest you
http://revolutionfitness.emlnk1.com/lt.php?i=612A685A25A22144

I read that 2 years ago, that has already been debunked, size matter about the persons bone structure, just because 2 guys have the same height won't mean they will have same maximum potential of muscle growth, I know naturals at 245lbs 15% bodyfat and 6ft 2, while others can't even reach 230lbs and stay at 15% bodyfat, it's all about bone size

What part do you think was debunk? It's talking about rate of muscle gain (as in your question) not max genetic potential. Nothing in the article is at odds with theories on bone/frame size. Elsewhere they refer to wrist/ankle size being a predictor of max potential.

How did you work out your bones equal a potential of 110kg? Sounds slightly optimistic. I think the issue is that you're aiming to match "nattys" rather than actual natural lifters.
Skeletal frame size is a predictor. But there is also an upper limit. 245lbs and 15% at 6'2 exceeds that limit.

jive

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Tbh, I don't think there's a hope that you can add 2-2.5kg per month for 15 months and stay at 15%. Not without some pharmaceutical assistance anyway and even then it might be a stretch.

This. The one piece of advice I'll give is aim to add about 1kg per month tops. Assuming you've any bit of training under your belt already, going for 2.5kg per month is a sure fire way to add about 2kg of fat mass per month.

Transform

jive wrote: »

This. The one piece of advice I'll give is aim to add about 1kg per month tops. Assuming you've any bit of training under your belt already, going for 2.5kg per month is a sure fire way to add about 2kg of fat mass per month.

still think 1kg a month might be possible for the first 3-4 months then after that its going to be far slower.

Just the numbers seem so random and dont see the point in getting to that weight

Blacktie.

Transform wrote: »

still think 1kg a month might be possible for the first 3-4 months then after that its going to be far slower.

Just the numbers seem so random and dont see the point in getting to that weight

I'm not OP but isn't there a stornger by science article about the association between height and ideal weight? Though I think it's more aimed at wilks score. Still building towards 105kg... Only 24 kg to go

Alf Veedersane

Blacktie. wrote: »

I'm not OP but isn't there a stornger by science article about the association between height and ideal weight? Though I think it's more aimed at wilks score. Still building towards 105kg... Only 24 kg to go

This the one you mean?

Blacktie.

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

This the one you mean?

Yeah it is. It's actually 110 kg. Some difference between a 450 and a 500 wilks.

Dwellerstew

Mellor wrote: »

What part do you think was debunk? It's talking about rate of muscle gain (as in your question) not max genetic potential. Nothing in the article is at odds with theories on bone/frame size. Elsewhere they refer to wrist/ankle size being a predictor of max potential.

How did you work out your bones equal a potential of 110kg? Sounds slightly optimistic. I think the issue is that you're aiming to match "nattys" rather than actual natural lifters.
Skeletal frame size is a predictor. But there is also an upper limit. 245lbs and 15% at 6'2 exceeds that limit.

It's not accurate since people also start at 50kg and gain nearly double their weight and it goes against what the formula says, it's not really accurate, since it only targets a certain group of people

Transform

Dwellerstew wrote: »

It's not accurate since people also start at 50kg and gain nearly double their weight and it goes against what the formula says, it's not really accurate, since it only targets a certain group of people

you say you want to gain strength mainly - what are you current lifts and what would you like to get them to?

Transform

Dwellerstew wrote: »

It's not accurate since people also start at 50kg and gain nearly double their weight and it goes against what the formula says, it's not really accurate, since it only targets a certain group of people

yes when they're 16yrs old 50kg soaking wet and eats like a bird and his parents call him a picky eater when he's just a fussy controlling kid that needs to eat properly as opposed to surviving on 1,500cals a day.

Mellor

Dwellerstew wrote: »

It's not accurate since people also start at 50kg and gain nearly double their weight and it goes against what the formula says, it's not really accurate, since it only targets a certain group of people

Who did? I know a few 100kg guys in good nic, I doubt any of them were 50kg in their adult life.
If know somebody whdid go from 50kg to 100kg as an adult, how long did it take? Regardless, it wouldn’t be all lean mass.

Anyway, that’s rate of gain, not max potential. Still doesn’t explain where 110kb came from. How big are your bones?

Blacktie. wrote: »

Yeah it is. It's actually 110 kg. Some difference between a 450 and a 500 wilks.

For the sake of completeness part 1 of that series worth a read – Fat Free Mass Index/Max Drug free potential.

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/your-drug-free-muscle-and-strength-potential-part-1/

In a nutshell max drug free FFMI is 25.
The 500 wikis score stats above - 110kg/12% BF/180cm - equals a FFMI of almost 30.

Dwellerstew

Transform wrote: »

yes when they're 16yrs old 50kg soaking wet and eats like a bird and his parents call him a picky eater when he's just a fussy controlling kid that needs to eat properly as opposed to surviving on 1,500cals a day.

When I was 16, I was 56kg, and I was eating around 2,500 kcals on average, after I started bulking, I realised that I would have to eat 3800 to just go on a lean bulk, as I was losing weight when I would only manage to eat 3,400 calories, so it is not the case with everyone

Transform

Dwellerstew wrote: »

When I was 16, I was 56kg, and I was eating around 2,500 kcals on average, after I started bulking, I realised that I would have to eat 3800 to just go on a lean bulk, as I was losing weight when I would only manage to eat 3,400 calories, so it is not the case with everyone

and your current deadlift, squat, weighted dip and chin?

Mellor

Dwellerstew wrote: »

When I was 16, I was 56kg, and I was eating around 2,500 kcals on average, after I started bulking, I realised that I would have to eat 3800 to just go on a lean bulk, as I was losing weight when I would only manage to eat 3,400 calories, so it is not the case with everyone

If you need to eat that much just to maintain it;s even less likely you'll add 30kg in a year.
But ignoring that, lets say there's no limit on how fast you can add muscle. And you could add 2kg to 3kg per month.

That still doesn't explain where you got 110kg from?
You can be 15% bodyfat or 110kg - but you can't be both imo.

Dwellerstew

Mellor wrote: »

If you need to eat that much just to maintain it;s even less likely you'll add 30kg in a year.
But ignoring that, lets say there's no limit on how fast you can add muscle. And you could add 2kg to 3kg per month.

That still doesn't explain where you got 110kg from?
You can be 15% bodyfat or 110kg - but you can't be both imo.

http://www.weightrainer.net/bodypred.html

This is the website I used, it's pretty accurate, more accurate than the ffmi calculator that's for sure, and this is where I got these numbers from

Mellor

Dwellerstew wrote: »

http://www.weightrainer.net/bodypred.html

This is the website I used, it's pretty accurate, more accurate than the ffmi calculator that's for sure, and this is where I got these numbers from

FFMI is just a measurement. There's no accuracy/prediction involved.
Yours is currently 20.

What wrist/ankle measurements did you use. As by putting on generous estimates I got 100kg. Which would be in line with a natural FFMI limits.
That calculator is the same one from the article you said was debunked earlier in the thread.

Transform

Dwellerstew wrote: »

http://www.weightrainer.net/bodypred.html

This is the website I used, it's pretty accurate, more accurate than the ffmi calculator that's for sure, and this is where I got these numbers from

current deadlift/squat, weighted chin and weighted dip?

Alf Veedersane

Outside of the theory of bone size, FFMI etc, it will become obvious over time how realistic or otherwise it is to add 29kg and be at 15% bf in 15 months.

But I don't think it's realistic and absolutely not within that timeframe.

Dtp1979

Transform wrote: »

current deadlift/squat, weighted chin and weighted dip?

I have a stone here Transform, if you want it. You'd have more luck trying to get blood from it

Dwellerstew

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Outside of the theory of bone size, FFMI etc, it will become obvious over time how realistic or otherwise it is to add 29kg and be at 15% bf in 15 months.

But I don't think it's realistic and absolutely not within that timeframe.

I never said that,I said I want to gain 29 kg and recomposition my body, for a year or two,by maintaining my weight and losing bodyfat, and hopefully I would get to 15% bodyfat after another 1 year or 2 after I reached my weight goal

Alf Veedersane

Dwellerstew wrote: »

I never said that,I said I want to gain 29 kg and recomposition my body, for a year or two,by maintaining my weight and losing bodyfat, and hopefully I would get to 15% bodyfat after another 1 year or 2 after I reached my weight goal

It is what you said in your OP, tbf. To achieve your goal by Sept 18 without reference to a later date to get to 15%.

Dwellerstew

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It is what you said in your OP, tbf. To achieve your goal by Sept 18 without reference to a later date to get to 15%.

I clearly stated my intentions, please ready what I said and then reply

Alf Veedersane

Dwellerstew wrote: »

I clearly stated my intentions, please ready what I said and then reply

I did which is why I disagree that they were clearly stated in terms of timelines.

Either way, the response on how realistic it is stands.

LuckyLloyd

Transform wrote: »

and your current deadlift, squat, weighted dip and chin?

Transform wrote: »

you say you want to gain strength mainly - what are you current lifts and what would you like to get them to?

Transform wrote: »

current deadlift/squat, weighted chin and weighted dip?

:pac:

Dwellerstew

Transform wrote: »

current deadlift/squat, weighted chin and weighted dip?

I hit 200kg for 5reps on the dead lift, 120kg on the squat for 5reps, and I also 5reps for 100kg on the bench, theses were my last number before I couldn't go to the gym for a couple of weeks for a multitude of reasons, but I will be back in the gym after 2 to 3weeks and I really want to start hitting impressive numbers and also progress on accessorie work

Dtp1979

Dwellerstew wrote: »

I hit 200kg for 5reps on the dead lift, 120kg on the squat for 5reps, and I also 5reps for 100kg on the bench, theses were my last number before I couldn't go to the gym for a couple of weeks for a multitude of reasons, but I will be back in the gym after 2 to 3weeks and I really want to start hitting impressive numbers and also progress on accessorie work

Those are impressive numbers as it is

Transform

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Those are impressive numbers as it is

exactly - the squat needs to go up a little and would like to see a vid of 5reps at 200kg on deadlift considering the squat is 80kg off that but how strong is strong enough?

Getting a nice balance between being lean, strong and fit aint easy and I think doing that plus 100kg is just asking for people to say 2yrs from now - "Yea Billy was in good shape but then he bulked up and just looks fat now".