"Book readers" - Season 8 - Speculation thread - Spoilers on thread from 15th Apr

s7ryf3925pivug

Sleepy wrote: »

What are you blathering on about? Maybe make sure you know what you're talking about before calling other posters stupid.

The Knights of the Vale were at Winterfell. Yohn Royce was clearly shown in quiet conversations with Sansa during episodes 1 and 2 of this season (usually as someone else turned up). We never saw them leave or had any indication that they intended to so.

They're famed for their heavy cavalry (maybe you were asleep when they swooped in to save the day at the end of the Battle of the Bastards?) yet we only saw the Arryn sigil visible amongst infantry soldiers during The Long Night.

So, either they suddenly decided they'd rather fight on foot (without any comment about that in any episode) or the heavy cavalry were held in reserve elsewhere which would amount to an ace in Sansa's hand for the upcoming negotiation with Dany as to the future of the North.

Or I suppose it's maybe possible that the writers just forgot they were there like you did?

you missed my point, and thought I said something I didnt

The White Wolf

Sansa is definitely acting the whooer anyway that's for sure, subtlety laying seeds in Tyrion's mind in regards to the "Dragon Queen." Increasingly looking for a death by Dracarys.

Paddy Cow

The White Wolf wrote: »

Sansa is definitely acting the whooer anyway that's for sure, subtlety laying seeds in Tyrion's mind in regards to the "Dragon Queen." Increasingly looking for a death by Dracarys.

Sansa knows how to play the game. Dany is too obsessed with the idea that being the Queen means that everyone has to bow to her or die. Sansa would be a much better ruler.

ogsjw

I'm just Sophie Turner learned how to act. She's been really, really good the last two seasons, Emilia Clarke too. They were really struggling in the beginning. Sansa has become one of my favourite characters, very reserved and contemplative. Which I suppose is easier now that Littlefinger is out of her ear haha.

The White Wolf

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Sansa knows how to play the game. Dany is too obsessed with the idea that being the Queen means that everyone has to bow to her or die. Sansa would be a much better ruler.

Sansa is more in tune to Westeros so that automatically makes her currently better equipped than Dany to rule.

But she's literally playing with fire if she's trying to undermine Dany to her own bloody Hand. For all the back up she has in the Vale, Jon and ninja Arya, Dany could burn them all alive in seconds should she get a sniff of what she perceives to be treason.

TerrorFirmer

Dany also has nothing left other than the comradarie she's earned from the rest of the main cast. Dothraki are gone. Jorah is gone. Unsullied are decimated, to what extent we're not yet sure but signs are, they're only a token force at this point at best. The dragons also now know Jon as one of their own. Tyrion and likely Varys will serve, but not to any senseless or maniacal actions.

She's not in a position to suddenly enter brute politics at this stage. She's out there on an island, tethered peacefully for now, but if she plays the power hand she's in the weakest position of all.

Paddy Cow

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Dany also has nothing left other than the comradarie she's earned from the rest of the main cast. Dothraki are gone. Jorah is gone. Unsullied are decimated, to what extent we're not yet sure but signs are, they're only a token force at this point at best. The dragons also now know Jon as one of their own. Tyrion and likely Varys will serve, but not to any senseless or maniacal actions.

She's not in a position to suddenly enter brute politics at this stage. She's out there on an island, tethered peacefully for now, but if she plays the power hand she's in the weakest position of all.

Varys serves the realm. If he thinks Dany is going cray cray like her father, he'll switch sides.

dusty bin

As everyone expected

Jon

to kill the

night king

instead of

arya

, i was wondering what other expectations we can now not expect to see.

Cleganebowl - Dont see it happening now. Maybe Jon kills the mountain. (he did kill his siblings after all)

Jaime/Tyrion/Arya Killing cersei. I now see a dragon ripping her in two.

The White Wolf

dusty bin wrote: »

As everyone expected

Jon

to kill the

night king

instead of

arya

, i was wondering what other expectations we can now not expect to see.

Cleganebowl - Dont see it happening now. Maybe Jon kills the mountain. (he did kill his siblings after all)

Jaime/Tyrion/Arya Killing cersei. I now see a dragon ripping her in two.

Who knows tbh. I'm half expecting Jon and Dany to die with Cersei surviving, having established an agreement with Sansa for the North to become independent.

Who wants good storytelling when the show has a reputation to uphold.

SexBobomb

Cersei to be taken alive and brought to Dany and Sansa, that would be a cool scene. Possibly to be beheaded á la Ned Stark.

Paddy Cow

The White Wolf wrote: »

Who knows tbh. I'm half expecting Jon and Dany to die with Cersei surviving, having established an agreement with Sansa for the North to become independent.

Who wants good storytelling when the show has a reputation to uphold.

Sansa would never negotiate with Cersei as she knows Cersei is a lying C U Next Tuesday and can't be trusted.

SexBobomb

Will Jon stay alive after the NK's been defeated? was that the reason he was resurrected ? Like Beric and The Red Woman.

paulbok

Does Reagal answer to Jon now as dragon rider, or does Danerys still own the log book?

Paddy Cow

Dany probably still considers Rhaegal hers but he'd bonded with Jon so I'd say Rhaegal would be more loyal to Jon. Rhaegal and Viserion were locked up for ages and weren't as close to Dany as Drogon.

Tazzimus

paulbok wrote: »

Does Reagal answer to Jon now as dragon rider, or does Danerys still own the log book?

Possibly a named driver on him.

paulbok

Tazzimus wrote: »

Possibly a named driver on him.

Actually spat out tea I was drinking reading this.

Tired Gardener

I think both Dragons will still be loyal to Dany, seeing as she raised them and they have only know Jon for a very short passage of time. Also Dany is pure Targaryen, where as Jon isn't.

However I think Dany's story arc is going to come crashing down, I suspect that was the reason behind the idiotic way to dispatch both the Dothraki and the Unsullied. The writers have their own story to tell, so they are sweeping out any and all clutter that gets in the way of what they imagine.

Also I imagine having too many extras would be too much for their budget to cover.

It has been hinted that the last 3 episodes are going to be seen as a self contained story, so a beginning, middle and end. Plus there is the talk of a bittersweet ending, which given how post book GoT has panned out, that could mean anything really.

Witcher

None of the Targaryen's are pure, several of the kings had wives from other families. Aegon V married a Blackwood and others married Dayne's etc. I'd doubt it will come down to that.

Tired Gardener

Witcher wrote: »

None of the Targaryen's are pure, several of the kings had wives from other families. Aegon V married a Blackwood and others married Dayne's etc. I'd doubt it will come down to that.

A lot of them married their siblings. It is one of their traditions of marrying so close that has allowed the madness to steep into their family... no such thing as genetic purity, I should have said, she has more Targaryen in her than Jon.

Sleepy

Random predictions for the next three episodes

Dany will have a heel turn and end up being killed, probably by a heart-broken Aegon / Jon
Cersei will be killed by Jaime or, if not, she'll be held in a tower until she gives birth and will take the same escape Tommen did.
Cleganebowl will happen - no other reason for the Hound to have survived Winterfell's battle.
The wheel will be broken and no-one will sit the Iron throne: Westeros will witness the birth of democracy.

ogsjw

I think those are fairly safe bets; maybe if Cersei was lying about the pregnancy (she was drinking with Euron) that would make Jaime angry enough to finally be done with her.

paulbok

Tired Gardener wrote: »

A lot of them married their siblings. It is one of their traditions of marrying so close that has allowed the madness to steep into their family... no such thing as genetic purity, I should have said, she has more Targaryen in her than Jon.

She has now

dsmythy

Sleepy wrote: »

Random predictions for the next three episodes

Dany will have a heel turn and end up being killed, probably by a heart-broken Aegon / Jon
Cersei will be killed by Jaime or, if not, she'll be held in a tower until she gives birth and will take the same escape Tommen did.
Cleganebowl will happen - no other reason for the Hound to have survived Winterfell's battle.
The wheel will be broken and no-one will sit the Iron throne: Westeros will witness the birth of democracy.

Possibilities.

Would probably be a democracy where the aristocratic noble and wealthy are the voters but stepping stones and all that.

If Daenerys were to die though I suspect even that possibility will be buried with her.

One ending could be that the wheel continues just with new players involved. Probably the same players who smashed that possibility in the first place. Some things never change and all that.

paulbok

ogsjw wrote: »

I think those are fairly safe bets; maybe if Cersei was lying about the pregnancy (she was drinking with Euron) that would make Jaime angry enough to finally be done with her.

Women were drinking here during pregnancy up to 30 or so years ago, I wouldn't take that as a major clue.

s7ryf3925pivug

Emilia Clarke appears to reveal a major spoiler at the end of her omaze video on Facebook. If you donate to her charity you can win a vip screening of the last episode with her. She refers to something you see in the last episode.

Sleepy

dsmythy wrote: »

Possibilities.

Would probably be a democracy where the aristocratic noble and wealthy are the voters but stepping stones and all that.

If Daenerys were to die though I suspect even that possibility will be buried with her.

One ending could be that the wheel continues just with new players involved. Probably the same players who smashed that possibility in the first place. Some things never change and all that.

You think Dany is more likely to create a democracy than Jon? :eek:

Dany's a conqueror who has played lip service to breaking the wheel. She's taken her position with blood and fire. Jon, on the other hand has seen a "democratically" elected "king" in Mance Rayder, was elected by the Night's Watch, was chosen as the leader of the wildlings, was chosen as King in the North by Northern Lords. He's never sought power and was the first to tell Danaerys that if she took Westeros by unleashing her dragons she wasn't breaking any wheel, just changing who's sitting on the throne.

Her posturing may have put the seeds in place for him to think of "breaking the wheel" but they were bedded in his experiences with Mance and Ygritte. Jon will be the one to do it (and he'll be aided and abetted by Tyrion and Varys). It really wouldn't surprise me if we see Tyrion "on the throne" as the Hand of the Realm that serves no king at the end.

jebidiah

Very very very interesting... Could Dan and Dave be about to flip us all over and give us a spanking with their incredible writing?

TLDR

Night king touches crasters kids to turn them, he touched Bran....? Hint dropped by Night King actor on twitter, where he has let some stuff out before.

The White Wolf

He's dead; the last 3 episodes are the Cersei Lannister show.

I imagine Bran's role will be fueling the seeds of doubt in Jon's head in regards to what Dany might do and how he is destined to rule.

ogsjw

paulbok wrote: »

Women were drinking here during pregnancy up to 30 or so years ago, I wouldn't take that as a major clue.

... she went out of her way to refuse the drink to drop a hint to Tyrion last season.



... also we should compare GOT to real life as little as possible.

Paddy Cow

Totally agree. The NK is gone. The next episode will be about regrouping and uniting against Cersei. It's going to make for an interesting episode seeing how Dany lost her army of Dothraki and Unsullied but still has two Dragons. Loyalties will be tested.

The White Wolf

Sorry I should have said I don't think Jon will rule but break the wheel as Dany always promised she would; no Iron Throne and various independent states ruled by a council of heads.

ogsjw

The White Wolf wrote: »

Sorry I should have said I don't think Jon will rule but break the wheel as Dany always promised she would; no Iron Throne and various independent states ruled by a council of heads.

Out of embarrassment of being named King in the North, which is the most intense cringe ever. Both times it has happened it just felt like a bunch of little boys playing soldier in their tree house.

I really hope when the end the show its all pretty much wrapped but in terms of what we have watched and the last scene isn't a cut away to some potential danger (like a new NK or some ****) they will have in future. After they do the happy ending finish I think that type of ending would make me lose it.

I know its not probable but I am kinda funking for Bran to be on team bad.

He is essentially part of the children of the forest right so maybe he is trying to lead Man kind on the most destructive path possible to wipe them out. Instead as helping as we think he is

(all that being said I haven't read the books so could be way off on all that)

Tired Gardener

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Totally agree. The NK is gone. The next episode will be about regrouping and uniting against Cersei. It's going to make for an interesting episode seeing how Dany lost her army of Dothraki and Unsullied but still has two Dragons. Loyalties will be tested.

Arya will kill Cersei and no doubt kill Jamie as well... and also the entire Lannister forces. Why, because GoT has become about superhero Arya. Her accomplishments far out strip anyone else when it comes to killing:

The entire Frey house.
The entire Army of The Dead.

All of which she managed to kill without any real effort or struggle.

Such a shame to see what was a great show go the same way as Lost and Battlestar Galactica (reimagined).

paulbok

Tired Gardener wrote: »

Arya will kill Cersei and no doubt kill Jamie as well... and also the entire Lannister forces. Why, because GoT has become about superhero Arya. Her accomplishments far out strip anyone else when it comes to killing:

The entire Frey house.
The entire Army of The Dead.

All of which she managed to kill without any real effort or struggle.

Such a shame to see what was a great show go the same way as Lost and Battlestar Galactica (reimagined).

Whoever killed the Night King was going to also kill the entire army of the dead, so I don't see how you can throw that at her?
As for the Frey's, 4/5 people killed by (mostly) stealth by a well trained assassin is hardly a surprise.

Tired Gardener

paulbok wrote: »

Whoever killed the Night King was going to also kill the entire army of the dead, so I don't see how you can throw that at her?
As for the Frey's, 4/5 people killed by (mostly) stealth by a well trained assassin is hardly a surprise.

I think my disappointment of how the show has handled her character is spilling into my judgement.

The Army of the Dead where going to crumble when the Night King died, that is so obvious that it goes with out saying.

The Frey's were killed by poison, which is a skill very suited to assassins.

Having Arya kill both of these groups of antagonists is a bit of a stretch. I think that is what rubs me the wrong way, and just seems like Arya is now a superhero.

The White Wolf

I'd actually be happy enough with the show ending on a positive note - if you think that would be bad well things could always be way worse - there are a few spoilers going around that would be laughable if true because of the pure shock factor and nothing more.

Source is based on the person successfully predicting that Arya would kill the Night King which no one took seriously at the time.

bur

Tired Gardener wrote: »

Arya will kill Cersei and no doubt kill Jamie as well... and also the entire Lannister forces. Why, because GoT has become about superhero Arya. Her accomplishments far out strip anyone else when it comes to killing:

The entire Frey house.
The entire Army of The Dead.

All of which she managed to kill without any real effort or struggle.

Such a shame to see what was a great show go the same way as Lost and Battlestar Galactica (reimagined).

The last scene should be Arya bursting into the writers' room.

RobbingBandit

I'd rather she gets to put a blade upto George finish the damn books old man or Arya will get ya

Paddy Cow

In the books when Cersei met the witch, she prophesied that Cersei would have three children who would die. She also said that Cersei would be strangled by her younger brother. Cersei always thought that would be Tyrion but most people take it to be Jamie. In the show when Cersei meets the witch there is no mention of this. Does this mean that anyone in the show can kill Cersei? I can accept that Arya killed the Night King but I would be seriously p!ssed off if anyone other than Jamie finally puts her out of her misery!

Dave_The_Sheep

I can't post this on facebook because that would be a dick move, but I will here, despite how many days I'm behind. When the Targ forces ambushed the wagon train:

Dothraki a few episodes ago: wrote:

Your people can't fight.

Dothraki now wrote:

*crickets*

Not so ****ing mouthy now, are you? Useless *****. Delighted you ****ing arrogant tossers are dead, and it was a meaningless death. Arseholes.

Daith

Anybody else think the Glovers will try and take over Winterfell while everyone is away? That would be very "Scouring of the Shire".

IAMAMORON

Daith wrote: »

Anybody else think the Glovers will try and take over Winterfell while everyone is away? That would be very "Scouring of the Shire".

If they weren't defending Winterfell they are dead. So no, I don't think that will happen.

dsmythy

IAMAMORON wrote: »

If they weren't defending Winterfell they are dead. So no, I don't think that will happen.

Not guaranteed they're dead unless the night king swung in their direction on purpose or sent a smaller army to their stronghold. I do think they wont have any role though unless Sansa got in touch with them if they were alive.

IAMAMORON

dsmythy wrote: »

Not guaranteed they're dead unless the night king swung in their direction on purpose or sent a smaller army to their stronghold. I do think they wont have any role though unless Sansa got in touch with them if they were alive.

They could have gone to Bear Island for a while, but I doubt the non-fighting Mormonts' would have stood for that. I would say GRM has enough loose ends at this stage to be tidying up without having to worry about the faith of the Glovers.

spacecoyote

At a guess I'd say they'll come back to the "left me to die" moment with Arya/Hound.

It'll look like, again, Arya is abandoning him to die, at the hands of the mountain, with a last minute twist/intervention to kill the mountain & save the Hound... followed by some loving quip from the hound about her being a little cnut before he dies shortly after

Daith

Daith wrote: »

Anybody else think the Glovers will try and take over Winterfell while everyone is away? That would be very "Scouring of the Shire".

I thought this was one of the better scenes this week...

...but still thought that Jon's speech could have done with a slight change:

We're here to say goodbye to our brothers and sisters, to our fathers and mothers, to our friends...our fellow men and women who set aside their differences, to fight together and die together so that others might live. Except Glover...god lord he was some prick.

Seriously though, I imagine that the Glovers were wiped out like the Umbers when the Dead descended from the Wall to Winterfell.

I reckon if there are Scouring of the Shire influences or similarities in the show, Cersei is Saruman now that the NK/Sauron threat has been wiped out.

Paddy Cow

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought this was one of the better scenes this week...

That was a really powerful scene and I teared up a little when Jon had to light little but brave Lady Lyanna.

I can forgive the show for not showing Arya and Sansa's reaction to Jon's news. I could guess their reactions and expected both to behave as they did - Arya is off to kill Cersei and Sansa played the game by telling Tyrion, but I was actually heart broken for Ghost when Jon just left him and didn't even give him a pet

It doesn't even make any sense. How is Ghost supposed to know he is to go with Tormund? He has no connection to Tormund. They could've at least spared 30 seconds like they did with Arya and Nymeria where Jon says he is sorry but the south is no place for a direwolf and Ghost trots off with Tormund after Jon orders him to. Then Jon giving Ghost one last look of sadness would be closure (to both Ghost and his Stark identity, if that's the theme they were going for). Him leaving a forlorn and injured Ghost just made him look like a sh!tty pet owner. Ghost deserved a better send off and if the writers weren't so crap, they wouldn't have written Jon to be such an ass.

leggo

Paddy Cow wrote: »

In the books when Cersei met the witch, she prophesied that Cersei would have three children who would die. She also said that Cersei would be strangled by her younger brother. Cersei always thought that would be Tyrion but most people take it to be Jamie. In the show when Cersei meets the witch there is no mention of this. Does this mean that anyone in the show can kill Cersei? I can accept that Arya killed the Night King but I would be seriously p!ssed off if anyone other than Jamie finally puts her out of her misery!

I’d say the prophecy still applies but they cut it out to keep it a surprise for non-book readers. If anything, for me, this episode made it obvious that’s how they’re going to go. It annoyed me a little bit that they faked as if Jaime was going back to Cersei out of love when the thing that we’re supposed to assume inspired him to make that decision was the scene directly before with Sansa and Brienne talking about Cersei taking out a dragon. It made it clear that Jaime knew he might be the only one who could take her out. That scene wouldn’t worry him, she seems stronger than ever. Then, for whatever reason, they had him act like it was love that brought him running back. There’d have still been more than enough tension if he’d have just told Brienne he’s going to kill her and he needn’t have broken her heart.