Pro14 2017-18 season thread

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Disappointing for Ospreys and the pro14 to be honest. Biggars comments also odd as Northampton are well and truly gash the last few years.

Can't remember the name of the no.2 at Ospreys but I know he was getting a lot of positive commentary last season so hopefully steps things up again this year.

His comments are bog standard I'm-signing-for-a-new-club-here's-some-platitudes stuff. He's hardly going to say "well I've doubled my salary so I couldn't say no".

I think Sam Davies is who you're thinking of. Very talented player.

Clegg

You're thinking of Sam Davies. Biggar has flaws but has always been a steady hand for the Ospreys and Wales. It's a blow to the league that he's leaving.

Jeremy Melodic Carp

Jeremy Melodic Carp wrote: »

His comments are bog standard I'm-signing-for-a-new-club-here's-some-platitudes stuff.

Of course they are, no disagreement here. But it's odd to say that given where Northampton are at the moment and what just happened to them at the weekend. It's like saying you're going to eat Ice Cream because it's low in fat.

Jeremy Melodic Carp wrote: »

I think Sam Davies is who you're thinking of. Very talented player.

That's the one. He looked good the few times I saw him last season.

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course they are, no disagreement here. But it's odd to say that given where Northampton are at the moment and what just happened to them at the weekend. It's like saying you're going to eat Ice Cream because it's low in fat.



That's the one. He looked good the few times I saw him last season.

Was there another interview where he was saying all this? I'm just looking at the BBC article and he just talks about the history and tradition of Northampton

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Was there another interview where he was saying all this? I'm just looking at the BBC article and he just talks about the history and tradition of Northampton

I'm not going looking for it but I read the comments about how he wants to win trophies etc etc.

irishbucsfan

Jeremy Melodic Carp wrote: »

I'm not going looking for it but I read the comments about how he wants to win trophies etc etc.

Ah right its in the full comment which is on the Saints site:

“I'm hugely privileged to sign for a club with the history and tradition of Saints,” he says. “It's extremely exciting to start a new chapter of my career with a club that shares my ambition to win trophies, which is where this club belongs. I have to say a massive thank you to the coaches and board for the confidence put in me and I look forward to working as hard as I ever have in my career to return the faith.

“This is an opportunity for me and my family to experience rugby in a different environment and playing in a town and surrounding area which has a massive passion for rugby was a huge attraction.

“I would like to thank everyone at the Ospreys and the Welsh Rugby Union who has supported and helped me throughout my career and an extra special thank you to the fans who have helped and supported me through highs and lows.

“To play for my home club was a dream come true, let alone to play as many times as I have done. I hope my passion for the shirt and people of this region has shone through in my performances and I would love to leave on a high note with some silverware. I also remain fully committed to Wales and achieving the best I can every time I pull on the red shirt.”

I think its fair enough. Surely every club has an ambition to win trophies. Especially a club that has actually won major trophies like Northampton.

Homesick Alien

Clegg wrote: »

You're thinking of Sam Davies. Biggar has flaws but has always been a steady hand for the Ospreys and Wales. It's a blow to the league that he's leaving.

It's not that big a blow. Biggar played very few pro12 games and hasn't yet recaptured his world cup form. Sam Davies is the incumbent for the Wales 10 Jersey. Very exciting player.

Neil3030

Be funny if he said, "to me, as a Welshman, it's very important that my countrymen see me play as regularly as possible, so I signed for a club in the English Premiership".

Homesick Alien

Homesick Alien wrote: »

It's not that big a blow. Biggar played very few pro12 games and hasn't yet recaptured his world cup form. Sam Davies is the incumbent for the Wales 10 Jersey. Very exciting player.

The problem is more than he's a marquee Welsh player and it doesn't say a whole pile for the league that he's leaving for a mid-tier English side.

Neil3030

Ha! Anyone notice where www.pro14rugby.com leads you :pac:

Blut2

Jeremy Melodic Carp wrote: »

The problem is more than he's a marquee Welsh player and it doesn't say a whole pile for the league that he's leaving for a mid-tier English side.

Between Madigan getting £500k a year and Biggar getting £600k a year I think its more indicative that the English teams either a) have too much money or b) are terrible with their money. Or maybe a combination of both a) and b).

If the Pro14 gets an influx of cash from the Saffers over the next few seasons it'll definitely help teams compete financially at least.

Wexfordboy89

Neil3030 wrote: »

Ha! Anyone notice where www.pro14rugby.com leads you :pac:

Lol what the heck

Cookiemunster

Neil3030 wrote: »

Ha! Anyone notice where www.pro14rugby.com leads you :pac:

The official site is pro14rugby.org.

Blut2

Blut2 wrote: »

Between Madigan getting £500k a year and Biggar getting £600k a year I think its more indicative that the English teams either a) have too much money or b) are terrible with their money. Or maybe a combination of both a) and b).

If the Pro14 gets an influx of cash from the Saffers over the next few seasons it'll definitely help teams compete financially at least.

I don't believe for a minute Madigan is on that much per year.

irishbucsfan

Jeremy Melodic Carp wrote: »

I don't believe for a minute Madigan is on that much per year.

I'd believe it if its a deal structured in a way that gets him (and the other guys like Luatua) a bunch of money during the first year while Bristol are in the Championship and therefore have no salary cap.

EDIT: Although Midi Olympique said it was 500k per year.

Neil3030

Post Brexit inflation and the weakening pound is going to make salaries in the half-million territory the norm to entice players to the UK, I suspect.

Winters

I see that Stuart Berry (South Africa) and Assistant referees Quinton Immelman (South Africa) and Cwengile Jadezweni (South Africa) are all up in Myreside this Friday.

Clegg

Homesick Alien wrote: »

It's not that big a blow. Biggar played very few pro12 games and hasn't yet recaptured his world cup form. Sam Davies is the incumbent for the Wales 10 Jersey. Very exciting player.

He's the one of the biggest names in the Pro 14. Over 200 caps for the Ospreys and over 50 for Wales. It's a sizeable loss especially when the league is trying to expand and attract more viewers.

Neil3030

But lads think of the BANTER they'll have on BT talking about his Macarena dance! We are all winners here!

Clegg

James Davies is out for 3 months with a shoulder injury. Huge blow for the Scarlets. Best openside flanker in the Pro 14 right now.

Erik Shin

Clegg wrote: »

James Davies is out for 3 months with a shoulder injury. Huge blow for the Scarlets. Best openside flanker in the Pro 14 right now.

Ah he's no Tommy O'Donnell like

Former Former

Erik Shin wrote: »

Ah he's no Tommy O'Donnell like

Indeed he's not.

So it's a huge blow for the Scarlets.

bilston

Blut2 wrote: »

Jeremy Melodic Carp wrote: »

The problem is more than he's a marquee Welsh player and it doesn't say a whole pile for the league that he's leaving for a mid-tier English side.

Between Madigan getting £500k a year and Biggar getting £600k a year I think its more indicative that the English teams either a) have too much money or b) are terrible with their money. Or maybe a combination of both a) and b).

If the Pro14 gets an influx of cash from the Saffers over the next few seasons it'll definitely help teams compete financially at least.

Well it also goes to show how difficult it will be for the provinces and the IRFU to keep the likes of Byrne and Carbery in Ireland in the future. I believe that Ulster had a serious battle.on their hands to keep Jackson last time round. Quality out halfs are pretty rare beasts.

bilston

Clegg wrote: »

James Davies is out for 3 months with a shoulder injury. Huge blow for the Scarlets. Best openside flanker in the Pro 14 right now.

That's crap news for the league. Quality player.

Tigerandahalf

bilston wrote: »

Well it also goes to show how difficult it will be for the provinces and the IRFU to keep the likes of Byrne and Carbery in Ireland in the future. I believe that Ulster had a serious battle.on their hands to keep Jackson last time round. Quality out halfs are pretty rare beasts.

Carbery is very raw. His goalkicking is really poor for a 10. He is not going to attract anything too soon.

Byrne is a better prospect at 10. I fear Carbery could be another Madigan/Olding type player - plenty of talent but not good enough in any one position to count. Even at full back Joey looks very dodgy under the high ball and his tackling will have to improve a lot. I love to watch him just like Madigan but time will tell.

Dave_The_Sheep

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Carbery is very raw. His goalkicking is really poor for a 10. He is not going to attract anything too soon.

Byrne is a better prospect at 10. I fear Carbery could be another Madigan/Olding type player - plenty of talent but not good enough in any one position to count. Even at full back Joey looks very dodgy under the high ball and his tackling will have to improve a lot. I love to watch him just like Madigan but time will tell.

While I don't disagree with your assessment of potential (who knows at this point), his lack of goal-kicking prowess might not be as much a disadvantage in somewhere like France where it's not necessarily always the 10 making the kicks at goal.

Dog Botherer

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

While I don't disagree with your assessment of potential (who knows at this point), his lack of goal-kicking prowess might not be as much a disadvantage in somewhere like France where it's not necessarily always the 10 making the kicks at goal.

No reason why he couldn't do the same at Leinster honestly, Ringrose is an excellent goalkicker. Even at international level pairing him with Cooney would solve the goalkicking issue.

Just needs to work on his game management.

PTH2009

Made sense of this but took a while. Cheetahs and Kings get a break during European Cup weekends and are getting the Xmas and New year's weekends matchdays off too (there playing 10 Rounds each in the 2017 part of the season while the Celtic clubs play 12 rounds) but cheetahs vs Kings will play against each other for Rounds 11/12 (11-12 Jan 18 ECC weekends)

At least the South African lads will get a summer holiday in decemebr but then again they will be playing no rugby during there Winter (May/June/July)

swiwi_

So...are we still happy about the new SA teams...

They bring money but not a lot else judging by the score lines from week 1 and 2.

Super Rugby was foolish to expand and I for one am glad it's going back to 15 teams.

Maybe after curry cup they get a bit better, we see I suppose.

They better improve though, otherwise once the novelty goes it's just SA versions of Treviso & Zebre, and that will wear thin quickly.

Subpopulus

swiwi_ wrote: »

So...are we still happy about the new SA teams...

They bring money but not a lot else judging by the score lines from week 1 and 2.

Super Rugby was foolish to expand and I for one am glad it's going back to 15 teams.

Maybe after curry cup they get a bit better, we see I suppose.

They better improve though, otherwise once the novelty goes it's just SA versions of Treviso & Zebre, and that will wear thin quickly.

Bit early to say. We'll see how they perform at home. Even with the travel distance and the altitude I still don't see them winning too many games though...

thomond2006

swiwi_ wrote: »

So...are we still happy about the new SA teams...

They bring money but not a lot else judging by the score lines from week 1 and 2.

Super Rugby was foolish to expand and I for one am glad it's going back to 15 teams.

Maybe after curry cup they get a bit better, we see I suppose.

They better improve though, otherwise once the novelty goes it's just SA versions of Treviso & Zebre, and that will wear thin quickly.

Connacht, Munster, Scarlets and Ulster weren't exactly the easiest four opponents to start off with. The Kings look far better than the Cheetahs as it stands. They are bringing more intensity and look like they have a coaching staff. The Cheetahs are a shambles defensively and look like they're the Saffer team that's been thrown together. Having said that, the Cheetahs have split their coaching team between their Pro14 and CC squads so they have an excuse!

All eyes on the Leinster and Zebre trip to SA now. A lot of people are writing this off too quickly, partly IMO because it's fashionable to shít on the league.

bilston

swiwi_ wrote: »

So...are we still happy about the new SA teams...

They bring money but not a lot else judging by the score lines from week 1 and 2.

Super Rugby was foolish to expand and I for one am glad it's going back to 15 teams.

Maybe after curry cup they get a bit better, we see I suppose.

They better improve though, otherwise once the novelty goes it's just SA versions of Treviso & Zebre, and that will wear thin quickly.

Yep I'm delighted to have them on board, judging them now would be a mistake anyway.

Iompair

It'll be next season before we can get a proper feel for the SA teams. No real lead-in into this season and no rest from super rugby. They'll have a chance to recruit properly and get a real preseason in for 18/19.

They could even be a different animal after their Christmas break.

thomond2006

Both the Kings and Cheetahs might be able to pick some players from the other provinces once the Currie Cup ends and players are out of contract.

molloyjh

Yeah, the dash to get the competition set up didn't afford either SA team much of a chance to prepare properly. Kings lost a good few players between the announcement of their departure from SR to their joining the Pro14, and as thomand mentioned Cheetahs are caught between Currie Cup commitments and the Pro14 at the moment. We may need to write this season off for them in general and hold off making a judgement until next season.

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah, the dash to get the competition set up didn't afford either SA team much of a chance to prepare properly. Kings lost a good few players between the announcement of their departure from SR to their joining the Pro14, and as thomand mentioned Cheetahs are caught between Currie Cup commitments and the Pro14 at the moment. We may need to write this season off for them in general and hold off making a judgement until next season.

I know to many it needed to happen this year or not at all, but sometimes it's better to get things right from the start. If there are 'a lot of easy games in the pro14' it wont do much for the competition even if it's just for a few years.

This weekend is the worst weekend of celtic rugby I can remember since the weekend we lost at home to Dragons.

Still, will be good to see how the mini tour goes.

thomond2006

Deleted User wrote: »

I know to many it needed to happen this year or not at all, but sometimes it's better to get things right from the start. If there are 'a lot of easy games in the pro14' it wont do much for the competition even if it's just for a few years.

This weekend is the worst weekend of celtic rugby I can remember since the weekend we lost at home to Dragons.

Still, will be good to see how the mini tour goes.

It had to happen this year or the two SA sides would have gone out of existence.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

It had to happen this year or the two SA sides would have gone out of existence.

Expansion of the pro12 didn't *have* to happen this year. Expansion of the pro12 to save these two teams did.

Blut2

It was far easier for SARU to move two more-or-less intact teams over whole hog this season though. It would have been much, much more difficult for them to create two brand new franchises from the ground up in a few years time for the purposes of expanding into the Pro12/14. And for them to sell the idea to players, fans and financial backers.

The Pro12 saw a rare good opportunity to expand and jumped at it. Its a risk, but given the growing financial clout of the English/French teams they had to do something. Doing nothing and just letting things continue as-is would just see a continual bleeding of the best talent from the league away to wealthier markets.

errlloyd

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah, the dash to get the competition set up didn't afford either SA team much of a chance to prepare properly. Kings lost a good few players between the announcement of their departure from SR to their joining the Pro14, and as thomand mentioned Cheetahs are caught between Currie Cup commitments and the Pro14 at the moment. We may need to write this season off for them in general and hold off making a judgement until next season.

I don't think we can give the Cheetahs that excuse tbh. They sent their absolute first string on tour. The currie cup was as much a distraction for them this weekend as the B&I cup is for Leinster.

Western Province tonked the Cheetahs, leading 57-0 at one time yesterday in the CC. I was at the game and they were absolutely shambolic which is fine, 28 of their best players were in Thomond.

pickarooney

The back 3 and OH couldn't have been first choice. To think that a couple of years ago their full back was Willie Le Roux.

bilston

In fairness if, as reported, the existing Pro 12 sides all get an extra £500,000 (or maybe it's €500,000) a year out of the deal to include the South Africans I'd imagine there will be a fair bit of patience to allow them to get up to speed.

thomond2006

Dragons vs Connacht
Ulster vs Scarlets
Edinburgh vs Benetton

---

Kings vs Leinster
Ospreys vs Munster
Cheetahs vs Zebre
Cardiff vs Glasgow

Some good fixtures with Ulster-Scarlets and Ospreys-Munster standing out. Cheetahs are in a must-win situation at home to Zebre. If they play as poorly again then it's a big problem for the league.

molloyjh

errlloyd wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah, the dash to get the competition set up didn't afford either SA team much of a chance to prepare properly. Kings lost a good few players between the announcement of their departure from SR to their joining the Pro14, and as thomand mentioned Cheetahs are caught between Currie Cup commitments and the Pro14 at the moment. We may need to write this season off for them in general and hold off making a judgement until next season.

I don't think we can give the Cheetahs that excuse tbh. They sent their absolute first string on tour. The currie cup was as much a distraction for them this weekend as the B&I cup is for Leinster.

Western Province tonked the Cheetahs, leading 57-0 at one time yesterday in the CC. I was at the game and they were absolutely shambolic which is fine, 28 of their best players were in Thomond.

They have their best team in the Pro14, but I believe their coaching team has been split. And they look like a side with coaching issues. Hell, they look like they don't even have a defence coach. So if they are operating with a shadow coaching team that would explain a lot.

thomond2006

Would it be too early to write off Cardiff if they lose to Glasgow? In their current form I reckon Cardiff won't get anything from this game.

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Would it be too early to write off Cardiff if they lose to Glasgow? In their current form I reckon Cardiff won't get anything from this game.

They seem to be in a bad way alright

thomond2006

irishbucsfan wrote: »

They seem to be in a bad way alright

The following three games are Connacht (A), Munster (H) and Dragons (H). Their Pro14 season could be done by the Dragons game. It's hard to know how many wins/points teams will need to make the top 3 in each conference but a team that's 1 win from 6 is probably out of the running.

Former Former

I doubt Cardiff had too many aspirations for this season other than basic survival and holding on to their players. Anything above that is a bonus.

pickarooney

Are we going to get many upsets this year or is the interest mainly in the top of the table clashes and the play offs?

I think whoever travels to Bloemfontein later in the season could be in for a testing game.

thomond2006

pickarooney wrote: »

Are we going to get many upsets this year or is the interest mainly in the top of the table clashes and the play offs?

I think whoever travels to Bloemfontein later in the season could be in for a testing game.

Right now Edinburgh look like a team that could break into the top tier of teams, however they haven't really been tested yet. They go to Leinster and Scarlets in Weeks 4 and 5 which will determine whether are legitimate contenders or not.