Maximizing the current Rail Infrastructure

Sam Russell

Marty Bird wrote: »

I pass over both LC every day and they do not stay closed 30/40 seconds after the train has gone clear. I posted earlier that IE have reduced the closing times for the trains to keep the LC open for the public longer.

I will check with a stop watch next time I am near it. It is certain that the SP gate closes for NB trains at the same time as Merrion Gates, while that does not happen for SB trains.

Marty Bird

Sam Russell wrote: »

I will check with a stop watch next time I am near it. It is certain that the SP gate closes for NB trains at the same time as Merrion Gates, while that does not happen for SB trains.

Signal distances are different on the SB line as far as I’m aware the SB train will sit for a couple of seconds on the platform at SP then the gates will come down, for NB trains I don’t think it’s simultaneously but it’s not far off must have a look next time I’m at them.

Sam Russell

Marty Bird wrote: »

Signal distances are different on the SB line as far as I’m aware the SB train will sit for a couple of seconds on the platform at SP then the gates will come down, for NB trains I don’t think it’s simultaneously but it’s not far off must have a look next time I’m at them.

That is not the case.

There is a detector just past the gates for SB trains. When the last of the train passes, the gates open. For NB trains, the gates close at the same time as Merrion Gates, 700 metres away. They open when the train is 100 metres north of the gates, having been closed while the train travels from the Merrion Gates, stops at the station and then travels another 100 metres up the line.

There is a signal halfway beteween SP and the Merrion Gates and it is when the train passes this SB that the Merrion Gates close. The timing for the Merrion Gates is very tight, unlike those at SP.

When I get the chance, I will time them.

Marty Bird

Sam Russell wrote: »

That is not the case.

There is a detector just past the gates for SB trains. When the last of the train passes, the gates open. For NB trains, the gates close at the same time as Merrion Gates, 700 metres away. They open when the train is 100 metres north of the gates, having been closed while the train travels from the Merrion Gates, stops at the station and then travels another 100 metres up the line.

There is a signal halfway beteween SP and the Merrion Gates and it is when the train passes this SB that the Merrion Gates close. The timing for the Merrion Gates is very tight, unlike those at SP.

When I get the chance, I will time them.

There is no detector it’s a track circuit when the track circuit for any level crossing clears and once no other train is looking for the LC it will open . The SB and NB signal config is not the same. When you leave Sandymount it’s 1 signal that protects SP and 1 for Merrion when you leave Bootertown it’s 1 signal for Merrion and 2 for SP why I don’t know safety I would say.

Sam Russell

Marty Bird wrote: »

There is no detector it’s a track circuit when the track circuit for any level crossing clears and once no other train is looking for the LC it will open . The SB and NB signal config is not the same. When you leave Sandymount it’s 1 signal that protects SP and 1 for Merrion when you leave Bootertown it’s 1 signal for Merrion and 2 for SP why I don’t know safety I would say.

I would call that a detector.

The NB train causes the SP gates to close at the same time as Merrion Gates, but SB trains do not cause Merrion Gates to close at the same time as SP.

I assume the signal blocks are the same NB and SB.

Marty Bird

Sam Russell wrote: »

I would call that a detector.

The NB train causes the SP gates to close at the same time as Merrion Gates, but SB trains do not cause Merrion Gates to close at the same time as SP.

I assume the signal blocks are the same NB and SB.

Again they are not the same the NB line has 2 signals protecting SP LC and the SB has only one signal protecting Merrion is further away from the platform were the train is stopping but the NB the signal is on the Platform.

metrovick001

I always wondered how road haulage would compare to rail transport if the road traffic act was enforced in Ireland (when was the last time ya saw a truck travelling at/under its speed limit of 80KPH? :-) )
With private firms marketing the freight service and shouldering the risk there is potential for container traffic in Ireland (18 trucks require 18 drivers).
The problem appears to be based in Kingsbridge.

end of the road

metrovick001 wrote: »

I always wondered how road haulage would compare to rail transport if the road traffic act was enforced in Ireland (when was the last time ya saw a truck travelling at/under its speed limit of 80KPH? :-) )
With private firms marketing the freight service and shouldering the risk there is potential for container traffic in Ireland (18 trucks require 18 drivers).
The problem appears to be based in Kingsbridge.

that and the pampered roads lobby and pampered large road haulage companies are hugely powerful.

L1011

metrovick001 wrote: »

I always wondered how road haulage would compare to rail transport if the road traffic act was enforced in Ireland (when was the last time ya saw a truck travelling at/under its speed limit of 80KPH? :-) )
.

About 2012, when the limit for them was 80.

It was increased.

Del.Monte

metrovick001 wrote: »

I always wondered how road haulage would compare to rail transport if the road traffic act was enforced in Ireland (when was the last time ya saw a truck travelling at/under its speed limit of 80KPH? :-) )
With private firms marketing the freight service and shouldering the risk there is potential for container traffic in Ireland (18 trucks require 18 drivers).
The problem appears to be based in Kingsbridge.

Not to mention the various road haulage firms who routinely force their drivers to work illegal hours. We've one very large company down these parts who are brand leaders for cowboy operations.

rebel456

metrovick001 wrote: »

I always wondered how road haulage would compare to rail transport if the road traffic act was enforced in Ireland (when was the last time ya saw a truck travelling at/under its speed limit of 80KPH? :-) )
With private firms marketing the freight service and shouldering the risk there is potential for container traffic in Ireland (18 trucks require 18 drivers).
The problem appears to be based in Kingsbridge.

end of the road wrote: »

that and the pampered roads lobby and pampered large road haulage companies are hugely powerful.

Del.Monte wrote: »

Not to mention the various road haulage firms who routinely force their drivers to work illegal hours. We've one very large company down these parts who are brand leaders for cowboy operations.

Yes, it's all a conspiracy. The Government, political parties, CIE, NRA, the AA are all in cahoots with each other to stop those meddling trains.

That of course ignores the significant expansion of our motorway network making cross country journeys much shorter - and delivering goods direct from ferry to location without having the transfer while en-route, the lack of major bulk freight in Ireland as opposed to point to point shipping, the little rail strike in 2000 that drove Kingscourt traffic to the roads... small little details. But please continue the conspiring and finger pointing.

end of the road

rebel456 wrote: »

Yes, it's all a conspiracy. The Government, political parties, CIE, NRA, the AA are all in cahoots with each other to stop those meddling trains.

That of course ignores the significant expansion of our motorway network making cross country journeys much shorter - and delivering goods direct from ferry to location without having the transfer while en-route, the lack of major bulk freight in Ireland as opposed to point to point shipping, the little rail strike in 2000 that drove Kingscourt traffic to the roads... small little details. But please continue the conspiring and finger pointing.

ah, the old, deny, deny, deny.

rebel456

end of the road wrote: »

ah, the old, deny, deny, deny.

What else do you want me to do? Put on dark sunglasses and an overcoat and agree with your bases 'theories'?

end of the road

rebel456 wrote: »

What else do you want me to do? Put on dark sunglasses and an overcoat and agree with your bases 'theories'?

they aren't baseless. anyone who really knows how this country works will know the government have agendas and really only work in their own interest.

rebel456

end of the road wrote: »

they aren't baseless. anyone who really knows how this country works will know the government have agendas and really only work in their own interest.

Why do you think it is the Government 'agenda' to support road haulage companies then? (and is it just this Government, the past Gov(s) too?)

jimmycrackcorm

end of the road wrote: »

that and the pampered roads lobby and pampered large road haulage companies are hugely powerful.

Care to provide numbers on how many deliveries are blocked by road haulage companies due to union strikes?

Markcheese

I think the problem has more to do with multiple handling the containers either side..

andrewfaulk

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Care to provide numbers on how many deliveries are blocked by road haulage companies due to union strikes?

Jimmy, care to back up your argument.. how many extra trucks were put on the roads by this years rail strikes??

It's not information many people are privy to with rail or road transport, so don't know how you claim to know or how it's going to support your argument

Euppy

Could we put a second platform at the docklands and terminate some of the trains coming from Drogheda there. It would free up the Connolly area which has been a mess since the Park Tunnel was re-opened.

Some of those Drogheda trains already terminate in Connolly, Docklands offers commuters the same access to IFSC as those trains plus it is a short walk to GCD.

I've read that docklands will be a hub for westbound trains only, but this seems a waste.

Any obvious downsides I don't see?

loyatemu

Euppy wrote: »

Could we put a second platform at the docklands and terminate some of the trains coming from Drogheda there. It would free up the Connolly area which has been a mess since the Park Tunnel was re-opened.

Some of those Drogheda trains already terminate in Connolly, Docklands offers commuters the same access to IFSC as those trains plus it is a short walk to GCD.

I've read that docklands will be a hub for westbound trains only, but this seems a waste.

Any obvious downsides I don't see?

I think it isn't currently laid out for northern line trains to use it (though presumably that would be simple to fix).

Euppy

loyatemu wrote: »

I think it isn't currently laid out for northern line trains to use it (though presumably that would be simple to fix).

You are right, but northern lines are linked to the docks. I think it'd be a very quick fix to get a line running into docklands. Maybe 200m of rail to be laid?

LeinsterDub

Euppy wrote: »

Could we put a second platform at the docklands and terminate some of the trains coming from Drogheda there. It would free up the Connolly area which has been a mess since the Park Tunnel was re-opened.

Some of those Drogheda trains already terminate in Connolly, Docklands offers commuters the same access to IFSC as those trains plus it is a short walk to GCD.

I've read that docklands will be a hub for westbound trains only, but this seems a waste.

Any obvious downsides I don't see?

The trains must run to the city centre brigade will certainly have issues with it.

Euppy

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The trains must run to the city centre brigade will certainly have issues with it.

Would the objections really be that bad?

Train delays have gotten so bad in the connolly area that you'd arrive in dockland mins earlier than connolly currently and then its only a 15min walk to connolly. So a small loss of 10mins on only maybe two trains in the morning.

Plus it would arguably be quicker for people who work near Pearse and GCD.

LeinsterDub

Euppy wrote: »

Would the objections really be that bad?

Train delays have gotten so bad in the connolly area that you'd arrive in dockland mins earlier than connolly currently and then its only a 15min walk to connolly. So a small loss of 10mins on only maybe two trains in the morning.

Plus it would arguably be quicker for people who work near Pearse and GCD.

Jump back about 100 posts in this thread and see.

tabbey

Euppy wrote: »

Could we put a second platform at the docklands and terminate some of the trains coming from Drogheda there. It would free up the Connolly area which has been a mess since the Park Tunnel was re-opened.

Some of those Drogheda trains already terminate in Connolly, Docklands offers commuters the same access to IFSC as those trains plus it is a short walk to GCD.

There is already second platform, both sides can take an 8 car dmu.

The problem is that people taking trains to town want to arrive in the city centre, either for business or making transfer to other trains, buses and trams.

A few years ago, when the off-peak Dunboyne trains continued to Docklands, a driver would shout at people on the platform, "this is not your train". He had probably got so much abuse from passengers arriving in Docklands, that he tried to have them wait for the following Maynooth - Pearse train. I only got on the Docklands train for the experience, as a rail enthusiast, I felt quite intimidated boarding against the driver's advice.

Euppy

tabbey wrote: »

A few years ago, when the off-peak Dunboyne trains continued to Docklands, a driver would shout at people on the platform, "this is not your train". He had probably got so much abuse from passengers arriving in Docklands, that he tried to have them wait for the following Maynooth - Pearse train. I only got on the Docklands train for the experience, as a rail enthusiast, I felt quite intimidated boarding against the driver's advice.

I love it

howiya

Running extra carriages would surely be a way to maximize the infrastructure. I imagine there’s not much lying around spare during the week but I’m sitting on the 13:00 to Cork ex Heuston and it’s a five carriage train. Standing room only

Markcheese

howiya wrote:

Running extra carriages would surely be a way to maximize the infrastructure. I imagine there’s not much lying around spare during the week but I’m sitting on the 13:00 to Cork ex Heuston and it’s a five carriage train. Standing room only

Do they still do peak pricing? So if the 1 O clock to Cork is peak make sure there's a price differential between that and off peak... Are the free travel brigade "steered" to off peak?

end of the road

Markcheese wrote: »

Are the free travel brigade "steered" to off peak?

the peak restrictions were abolished a long time ago.

tabbey

howiya wrote: »

I’m sitting on the 13:00 to Cork ex Heuston and it’s a five carriage train. Standing room only

Do you mean a five coach ICR, or a Mk IV with a coach missing?

end of the road

tabbey wrote: »

Do you mean a five coach ICR, or a Mk IV with a coach missing?

likely a 5 car ICR. mk4 are 7 car i think.

howiya

Was a five car ICR. Another thing I thought was strange was that at Thurles they announced, change here for Limerick. Thurles was the first stop so would have assumed anyone wanting to go to Limerick would have waited in Dublin for the 13:25. Maybe just covering themselves as the 13:00 to Cork wasn't stopping at Limerick Junction.

metrovick001

"free travel brigade"?
Not a very nice remark.

Jamie2k9

howiya wrote: »

Running extra carriages would surely be a way to maximize the infrastructure. I imagine there’s not much lying around spare during the week but I’m sitting on the 13:00 to Cork ex Heuston and it’s a five carriage train. Standing room only

Normally a Mark IV, engineering works required a switch. Poor planning the day after a Rugby match all the same.

Was a five car ICR. Another thing I thought was strange was that at Thurles they announced, change here for Limerick. Thurles was the first stop so would have assumed anyone wanting to go to Limerick would have waited in Dublin for the 13:25. Maybe just covering themselves as the 13:00 to Cork wasn't stopping at Limerick Junction.

Passengers are really stupid, they see Cork and assume it serves where they want as most services do.

Markcheese

metrovick001 wrote:

"free travel brigade"? Not a very nice remark.

Wasn't meant as anything offensive...

XPS_Zero

Markcheese wrote: »

Do they still do peak pricing? So if the 1 O clock to Cork is peak make sure there's a price differential between that and off peak... Are the free travel brigade "steered" to off peak?

Lets let him ask a simple question, people are too afraid to ask questions now lest they get their head torn off, but we only learn if we exchange information and we can't do that if were leaping down peoples throats

You would think such restrictions would free up a lot of space but Seamus Brennan got rid of them around the same time FT was expanded to all-Ireland travel, for a couple of reasons:

1. They realized most FT users don't travel at rush hour anyway, and try to avoid it for obvious reasons (seniors and people seriously ill don't wanna stand on a train mashed into someones back choking on Lynx and hairspray)

2. Those who did either have no choice as they're working (people transitioning off disability usually start back with PT work and like anyone else their shift might start at 9am) or going to a hospital appointment. Many consultants clinics are blocked together v early or v late in the day and they do their rounds in between during the transport off peak hours. So you might get a letter from the hospital to come in for 8am and be sitting there while they work through patients until 10:30, which means you have to be on a 7am train, or earlier.

3. There was many many cases of utter farce when busses were late say, a bus meant to be there at 16:50 get there at 17:01 and the old lady can't be let on or people were rushing out of work or appointments and doing sprints to the train station or bus stop frantic hoping to make it time.


I remember when I was laid down with cancer and pretty massive depression I did my best to avoid rush hour services like the plague because it meant you didn't get a seat, and while a senior might be offered a seat people would look at me, an apparently healthy fit 23 year old who nothing obviously wrong (which led to many a smart remark by CIE staff when they saw my pass, which caused a kind cold burning rage in me I can't describe), probably too pale but that's not unusual in Ireland, so I'd be standing, in fact if I got the seat first and someone remotely pregnant or with the slightest wrinkle came alongside I'd get dirty looks if I didn't stand up - people totally oblivious to what was happening on the inside of me unaware of the nausea, muscle soreness, catastrophic energy drain, acid reflux, cramps, dizziness and lack of sleep.

They should IMO have a poster campaign same as they do with other things like bags on seat, earphones, urging FT users to avoid peak travel if they can avoid it. Won't always be possible though

howiya

howiya wrote: »

Running extra carriages would surely be a way to maximize the infrastructure. I imagine there’s not much lying around spare during the week but I’m sitting on the 13:00 to Cork ex Heuston and it’s a five carriage train. Standing room only

For the purposes of balance currently sitting on the 15:00 service to Cork waiting to depart Heuston and there’s any amount of spare seats

funnyname

http://www.irishrail.ie/news/newtimetable2017

I thought we were due reductions of about 15 minutes for intercity trips or are there more improvements due?

L1011

There will likely be another revision mid year to add extra services on dart and off peak commuter so some may have been held back to see if real world performance matches expectation

Isambard

2 1/2 hours Cork to Dublin is nothing to be proud of.

Del.Monte

Isambard wrote: »

2 1/2 hours Cork to Dublin is nothing to be proud of.

Just like the late 1980s schedule so - well worth all the money spent and disruptions in recent years. :rolleyes:

Hugh Jampton

Isambard wrote: »

2 1/2 hours Cork to Dublin is nothing to be proud of.

I heard that in the voice of Adam Ant singing Prince Charming -

‘Irish Rail, uh oh, Irish Rail, 2 1/2 hours Cork to Dublin is nothing to be proud of’

Seanmk1

Heard Barry Kenny on Newstalk this afternoon. It looks like they have some agreement with the drivers' unions to allow training and mentoring to go ahead while talks continue. This should allow preparation for the 10-minute DART timetable frequency to begin.

Decuc500

Oh great. The dart I get every morning at Kilbarrack comes from Howth and is 10 minutes after a previous Howth train. The new super duper '10 minute' service means trains every 20 minutes from Howth/Malahide which means my train will be twice as busy. Can't wait.

LeinsterDub

Decuc500 wrote: »

Oh great. The dart I get every morning at Kilbarrack comes from Howth and is 10 minutes after a previous Howth train. The new super duper '10 minute' service means trains every 20 minutes from Howth/Malahide which means my train will be twice as busy. Can't wait.

Where did you read this?

LeinsterDub

Seanmk1 wrote: »

Heard Barry Kenny on Newstalk this afternoon. It looks like they have some agreement with the drivers' unions to allow training and mentoring to go ahead while talks continue. This should allow preparation for the 10-minute DART timetable frequency to begin.

And the tail continues wag the dog!

Stephen15

Decuc500 wrote: »

Oh great. The dart I get every morning at Kilbarrack comes from Howth and is 10 minutes after a previous Howth train. The new super duper '10 minute' service means trains every 20 minutes from Howth/Malahide which means my train will be twice as busy. Can't wait.

God bless ya!

Decuc500

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Where did you read this?

If it's the same timetable they wanted to bring in two years ago it's a departure from Howth and Malahide every 20 minutes.

LeinsterDub

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/irish-rail-curtailed-essential-engineering-work-to-fund-pay-rise-1.3466262?mode=amp&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&__twitter_impression=true

Irish Rail curtailed essential engineering work to pay for a pay rise for its staff last year, the company has told Minister for Transport Shane Ross

Guessing it wasn't all that essential then. The mind boggles at IÉ