Deer Hunting. Where do I begin?

Jim.Creele

Hello all,

I've decided I finally want to begin hunting the larger game. My question is, whats the best way to go about this when starting from 0 - In other words, no deer calibre rifle and no deer licence.

I first thought the best thing to do is try getting a licence off Coillte, and once that is attained apply for the rifle licence, however it looks like Coillte ask for your rifle details and like you to have past experience. Also, I assume you have no chance of getting the larger calibre rifle licence first without already having a deer licence?

So what do I do lads? Step by step would be great.

Extra Information: I have held a .22LR licence for almost a year and a shotgun licence for 6 months.


Thanks,

Jim.

gunny123

You can have a larger calibre rifle if you are a member of a club like the midlands rc.

Tommyaya4

Once you have a deposit on a deer caliber rifle you can use the details for your application . So u will either need landowners permission to hunt and apply for your Deere licence using their folio numbers or you will need to buy into a coilllte lease but you will probady need a hcap to get into a lease and some are very expensive

Cass

Hey Jim, and welcome to the forum.

Some other lads will be along to add their bit, but here are the basics from what i know.

Quick guide:

• Have lease or private grounds to shoot on
• Place deposit on deer legal rifle.
• Apply for deer license, from NPWS
• Apply for deer legal rifle license
• Submit a letter from the NPWS to say your deer license will be granted to in your application for the rifle license. Alternatively submit the actual deer license. (this is the part where one needs the other)
• Get the rifle license
• Collect rifle, enjoy shooting.

Additional requirements for Coilte only lands:

• HCAP (training course on deer management including a competency/proficiency course done on a range).
• Insurance

As you are familiar with the firearm license application process it makes things a bit easier. You need either private land permissions or a Coilte lease in order to apply for a deer license. Break it down into two groups.

1. Private - Land permission(s) from private land owners who will sign a consent form to allow you to stalk/hunt on their lands. This will be verified by the NPWS to make sure the lands can sustain you and any other people allowed to shoot on them, and that the deer population is present and also healthy enough to sustain the stalking/hunting of them.
2. Lease - This is, as you point out, a Coilte lease. I don't shoot Coilte lands, but from what i've gathered (and someone will correct any errors) Coilte release the various leases in batches/ Each one is put up for tender. The "winner" is then given the lease. The leases can and do have limits. These include, but are not limited to, amount of deer culled, times the land can be shot, amount of people on the land, etc.

The Coilte one is of interest to you so we'll try and keep to it. Apologies in advance if i meander a little.

As said above Coilte lease out state lands and you need the HCAP before they will allow you to shoot on the lands. The HCAP can be read about here. Pay particular attention to post #6 from cookimonster. Excellent sample questions of what you'll be asked. The HCAP, in short, is done by a written exam, then if you pass a range test. The details are outlined in the above linked thread.

So you've done and passed the HCAP, now to the rifle part. To get a deer legal caliber you need good reason. The two most accepted reasons are deer stalking and target shooting. As it's deer stalking you are interested in we'll stick to that. You need to provide land details and a deer license when applying for the rifle. If you don't have the actual deer license, sometimes the NPWS will issue a letter to say the license will be granted and again sometimes this is accepted by An Gardaí. Other times the NPWS won't issue this, or An Gardaí won't accept it. So best to plan for the fact you may need the actual deer license which may take slightly longer.

With regard to the land/lease. Most lads already have the rifle license from previous applications. So each year they renew the deer license. For a first time applicant it's a little messier, and not something i'm qualified to answer. You don't have the rifle license, you don't have land and don't have a Coilte lease. To apply for the rifle you need some land permission or a lease, but to get a lease you need the HCAP and the rifle. It's a vicious circle and one part depends on having the other. However there doesn't seem to be a good starting point that will allow the others to fall into place. So hopefully someone that has been in this position can better guide/inform you.

We are only days away from the start of the 22017/2018 season. Applying now for a deer license may actually be quicker as most all renewals/applications will have been processed. However it's not a fast process. Between the land, rifle, applications, waiting, etc. you might find you'll loose most of the season or at least a good portion of it.

Of course there is always the issue of experience. The HCAP is a useful tool for beginners, but nothing beats actual hands on experience that i believe can only be gained from tagging along with an experienced hunter for a few seasons. The easy part of deer stalking is the trigger pull, everything after that is the hard part.

Jim.Creele

Cass,

Thanks for the detailed answer. Another option that would get me the rifle and at least get me started is as gunny123 suggested; joining the the MNSCI. However spending 600euro on membership purely to have good reason for the rifle (as I don't see myself actually using the membership) doesn't seem logical, Especially when you add that 600 on to the costs of the rifle, the rifle licence, the HCAP, and the deer licence

It's a complicated hobby we've picked lads!

Cass

Jim.Creele wrote: »

Another option that would get me the rifle and at least get me started is as gunny123 suggested; joining the the MNSCI. However spending 600euro on membership purely to have good reason for the rifle (as I don't see myself actually using the membership) doesn't seem logical,

The cost aside i believe, and he'll correct me if i'm wrong, what gunny123 was suggesting is to join the range, and get the rifle, become competent and even proficient with it before trying your hand at deer stalking.

However if you have no interest in target shooting then joining the range, any range, would create a couple of problems:

1. Its not what you want the firearm for so its technically a fraudulent application. Chances of it being flagged as such would be low, but you're better off knowing.
2. To apply for any firearm, as i'm sure you're aware, you must tick Target shooting, hunting, etc. on the FCA1. For target shooting you must provide details of the range, but for hunting you must provide deer licenses or land permissions if going after non license quarry. As you don't have the deer license to provide, nor the land, you cannot tick this box so if granted a license for target shooting only you'd be breaking the conditions of your license if you got it for range work and went hunting with it.

It's not as complicated as it reads above, but it does take some planning and time like all things shooting. Starting out is always the hardest bu it gets easy each year after that.

I'll offer some unpopular advice. If you have no experience deer stalking or shooting with a large caliber rifle then i'd advise "skipping" this season and trying to get out with an experienced stalker and learn the ropes. If this includes joining a range like the MNSCI to also learn the skills necessary with a large caliber rifle then so be it. As you said it's not a cheap sport and this is just another expense that may be needed.

extremetaz

You're a year shooting dude, and a centerfire is not a 22LR - you'll use the range access, and you'll be bloody glad of it too.
There are few better ways to spend a morning than talking ****e with the lads in Midlands whilst asserting and improving your ability with the rifle.

Best money you'll ever spend I promise you!

As Cass says above - you're as well to take at least a season to get to know your rifle, and the ropes in general, before you head out in any case.

RKMG

I was in a very similar situation to yourself a few years ago, I really wanted to get into deer stalking but had very little prior experience with hunting or with firearms. I luckily had a friend to show and mentor me a bit and was able to get permission from them to get both licences and now I am on a Coillte syndicate. 

If I was to do it all over again however I would 100% join the Midlands Range ( I only just joined myself a couple of months ago) and I would USE it and not just to get your license. You cannot beat the experience you will gain on the range, even from just going a few times my shooting has improved considerably and I know that will pay dividends in my stalking going forward. I would also try to find someone who would be willing to take you out stalking just to tag along. The more you can do this the better in my opinion, it will also give you a very good idea on whether you actually like deer stalking. I still do it from time to time and enjoy it as much as I do when I have my own rifle.

I could be wrong, but to me it seems like you want to get into deer stalking without actually ever having gone stalking before? If that is the case, you are far better off trying to get someone to bring you out. There are even professional guides in the UK who will take novices out for relatively reasonable prices. It could be worth trying out one of these for a weekend or something like that too. 
Essentially what I am trying to say is getting into deer stalking is a long term process so you are better off figuring out its something you defo want before you start

wirehairmax

Couple of questions for you OP:
Have you ever been deer stalking before?
Have you ever had a dead deer on the ground in front of you and got it ready for extraction?
What do you plan to do with the deer after you shoot it?
Have you a coldroom or fridge capable of hanging a full deer before butchering?
You've a .22 which is good out to maybe max 80-100m. Have you ever fired a centrefire at a live animal out to 200-250m though? A .270 is a beast if you plan to go for something like that. I saw a guy on the hcap range test give himself 2 black eyes and a busted nose from firing something similar. Remember you've to hit that animal to knock it down without gut shooting it and you need to be confident and competent with the shot every time. If not you'll be hours looking for a deer that has ran into cover badly shot.

Not trying to put a damper on your enthusiasm but I was like you 10 years ago. Luckily i was able to tag along with a man who cant even remember how many deer he has shot. I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly of deer stalking over the last 10 years. I didn't shoot a deer until my second season. I'm still learning.
Shooting is the easy part, there is so much more though. Deer are not stupid, they can smell novices and all you'll see is a white arse disappearing over the horizon if you dont know what you're doing. Their sense of smell and sight is unreal. Also what happens if you shoot something and youve to gralloch it out without being the cause of a mass outbreak of ecoli? I know guys who've given up deer staking because they havn't got the stomach for it.
Next up is getting it back to the transport, it takes 2 of us to pull reds off the hills in donegal, there are other places it needs a quad or backpacking is the only way out with an animal. They wont all be shot in a nice handy field next to the road.
What happens then? Youll need a shed or somewhere to skin it and cool it before butchering. Have you any butchering experience or will you get someone to do it for you?
Lots to consider before taking the leap. Get good advice and experience before you do though.

Jim.Creele

wirehairmax wrote: »

Couple of questions for you OP:
Have you ever been deer stalking before?
Have you ever had a dead deer on the ground in front of you and got it ready for extraction?
What do you plan to do with the deer after you shoot it?
Have you a coldroom or fridge capable of hanging a full deer before butchering?
You've a .22 which is good out to maybe max 80-100m. Have you ever fired a centrefire at a live animal out to 200-250m though? A .270 is a beast if you plan to go for something like that. I saw a guy on the hcap range test give himself 2 black eyes and a busted nose from firing something similar. Remember you've to hit that animal to knock it down without gut shooting it and you need to be confident and competent with the shot every time. If not you'll be hours looking for a deer that has ran into cover badly shot.

Thanks for your contribution wirehairmax.

Its all of that stuff that I'm looking forward to in fact. The graft of the experience is what i enjoy most about the hunt. The most satisfying part of shooting for me is getting the meat home, preparing it and cooking it. I've often spent hours preparing a a sack of 20 rabbits along with a few birds for the freezer after a hunt and I would take the job of butchering a single deer over 20 rabbits any day!

As for your comment about the .22 and my experience. People often underestimate this calibre. I often take rabbits cleanly at over 150 yards with a HV round with 180 being my limit. I've seen videos of friends pushing beyond 200. The reason I mention this is that I imagine it takes more skill, experience and knowledge of ballistics to hit a rabbit at 150 yards with a .22 than it would to take an animal the size of a deer at 200-300 yards. Now I appreciate the deer rifle will act differently altogether but I'm confident my basic knowledge will allow me to catch on fast.

A lot of what you say seems very true though and I have taken it on board. The stalking practice is very true. I like to think i'd know how to go about it instinctively but that was certainly not the case for a few past hunts iv done!

Its also safe to say I'v changed my mind about the membership with the range thanks to the last few contributors. It's really the only place I can safely practice long distance shots with the new gun and get me ready for the HCAP. I also like the idea of getting into very long range target shooting.

I better start saving those pennies.

Thanks to all of you for the advice.

Jim.

Heavy handed

Bear in mind if your looking to do the HCAP course it'll be next year before the next one takes place. This years courses are now over and no further dates have been announced. Best option to get you going this year is to attain 100 acres of private land from a farmer that has deer on his land and apply from there.

extremetaz

Jim.Creele wrote: »

It's really the only place I can safely and LEGALLY practice long distance shots with the new gun

Fixed that for you.

You'll love the range, I promise.

As to the discipline that is the 22LR, can't be denied , and shooting 1moa at is shooting 1moa regardless of the distance; so if you can hit a 3" target with the 22LR at 150m reliably then you've got yourself a pretty good place to start from.

What is your 22LR? and what ammo are you using?

Jim.Creele

extremetaz wrote: »

Fixed that for you.

You'll love the range, I promise.

As to the discipline that is the 22LR, can't be denied , and shooting e1moa at is shooting 1moa regardless of the distance; so if you can hit a 3" target with the 22LR at 150m reliably then you've got yourself a pretty good place to start from.

What is your 22LR? and what ammo are you using?

Its a french made rifle that I believe is relatively rare as iv yet to come across someone who has one or who as even heard of one. The manufacturer is 'Unique' and the its a 'Mod T Audax'. I love it, its a tackdriver that still surprises me.

In terms of ammo, CCI subsonics for under 100 yards. These are my favourite as I have a moderator and the shots make no more noise than clicking your fingers. Great for pest control when rabbits are dense and you don't want to spook them.

At 100-200 yards I use CCI Stingers. I don't know if you've ever tried these but I was blown away when I first tried them. 300-400 fps faster than a standard velocity round with a 32 grain bullet.And you can hear the difference. It's very loud.

I'm just back from a short target shooting session where i was using stingers at 150 yards. The sight was zeroed at 50. I was only holding 2 millidots over. 2" groups.

Walter Mittys Brother

2" groups with Stingers at 150 yards :eek:

Jim.Creele

Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »

2" groups with Stingers at 150 yards :eek:

Yes. I'm sure I could improve that.

Walter Mittys Brother

Jim.Creele wrote: »

Yes. I'm sure I could improve that.

I'm shooting a lot longer than a year with a .22lr & I've shot lots of different ammo including Stingers. I've never been able to get decent groups, approx 1", with Stingers at much over 50 yards.

Jim.Creele

Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »

I'm shooting a lot longer than a year with a .22lr & I've shot lots of different ammo including Stingers. I've never been able to get decent groups, approx 1", with Stingers at much over 50 yards.

What rifle are you using? Are you using a good scope? and are you shooting the longer distances on calm days? Today when I was shooting it was dead calm.

I started at 50, then moved to 100, then finished at 150. Maybe you could try that, it gives you a great feel for the ballistics.

There is no doubt in my mind that stingers are best for those greater distances (especially on a calm day). As the bullet is the muzzle velocity is far higher and the smaller bullet lessens drop.

I always make sure I'm comfortable and take my time at each shot. Aim small miss small and all that....

extremetaz

Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »

2" groups with Stingers at 150 yards :eek:

Jim.Creele wrote: »

Yes. I'm sure I could improve that.

Nope, you really couldn't dude - stingers are only supersonic out to about 70m on average, your group size is a matter of how hard that japanese butterfly flapped his wings last week from there on out.

Using match grade subs you might manage a little better alright if the rifle is up for it, but if you can manage that with your rifle and CCI ammo, then your rifle would be envy of many an olympic match shooter.

Jim.Creele

extremetaz wrote: »

Nope, you really couldn't dude - stingers are only supersonic out to about 70m on average, your group size is a matter of how hard that japanese butterfly flapped his wings last week from there on out.

Using match grade subs you might manage a little better alright if the rifle is up for it, but if you can manage that with your rifle and CCI ammo, then your rifle would be envy of many an olympic match shooter.

I'm a bit lost. Are you saying that last nights 5 shot 2"-3" groupings at 150 yards (137 metres) was lucky?

Walter Mittys Brother

Jim.Creele wrote: »

I'm a bit lost. Are you saying that last nights 5 shot 2"-3" groupings at 150 yards (137 metres) was lucky?

To answer your questions I'm using an Annie 1710D with BKL mounts and a Leupold VXIII scope. Don't think equipment is holding me back. My ability to shoot is not in question, believe me

"lucky"? As stated above with something like Eley Tenex, Lapua Centre X or RWS R100 it might be possible. With CCI Stingers I'd love to see you doing it. You're either a shooting prodigy or you're range finder isn't working properly.

Jim.Creele

Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »

To answer your questions I'm using an Annie 1710D with BKL mounts and a Leupold VXIII scope. Don't think equipment is holding me back. My ability to shoot is not in question, believe me

"lucky"? As stated above with something like Eley Tenex, Lapua Centre X or RWS R100 it might be possible. With CCI Stingers I'd love to see you doing it. You're either a shooting prodigy or you're range finder isn't working properly.

Prodigy.... I like that I'll take an uncut video next time I'm out and put the link here.

Walter Mittys Brother

Jim.Creele wrote: »

I'll take an uncut video next time I'm out and put the link here.

Only way I'm gonna believe this is to see it in real time with my own eyes..............

extremetaz

Jim.Creele wrote: »

I'm a bit lost. Are you saying that last nights 5 shot 2"-3" groupings at 150 yards (137 metres) was lucky?

2" groups ...something like that.
3" groups I could credit.

Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »

To answer your questions I'm using an Annie 1710D with BKL mounts and a Leupold VXIII scope. Don't think equipment is holding me back.

Now that right there is a rig to be jealous of! Nice setup!

I've a '67 1423, which is the full stock carbine version of the 1422, the predecessor to your rifle. That's wearing a Hensoldt-Wetzlar Diavari on soldered suhler claw mounts (whoever bought this rig from new spent some serious money on it at the time!). Running Eley Edge I reckon it's about 1" capable at 100m but I wouldn't expect any better than 2" by 150m

Walter Mittys Brother

extremetaz wrote: »

Now that right there is a rig to be jealous of! Nice setup!

I've a '67 1423, which is the full stock carbine version of the 1422, the predecessor to your rifle. That's wearing a Hensoldt-Wetzlar Diavari on soldered suhler claw mounts (whoever bought this rig from new spent some serious money on it at the time!). Running Eley Edge I reckon it's about 1" capable at 100m but I wouldn't expect any better than 2" by 150m

Thanks. Sweet setup yourself 😉