Old housemate and rent refund

awec

Fol20 wrote: »

Sorry I should have also said that if all of the tenants are still under a fixed term lease, he would be liable for it and I would put the onus on him to find a new tenant.

If your outside of a fixed term lease if he was renting the entire place, he can just give a months notice and be done with it. So for example. If he signed the contract on the 1st of the Jan 2017. Then on the 15 of July 2019. He provided notice to vacate. He could then leave on the 15th and the balance owed or due would be pro rata'd

Yea but in that case the tenancy is ending cause he rents the entire place.

The tenancy is not ending in this scenario.

awec

bludcrazetiger wrote: »

who said he wanted to move out a week early ?
Infact he left on time!
He gave a 30 days notice on the 24th, and then left the 24th of the following month, the 1 week rent is due back.

its all very easy!

How do people not get this?

You cannot just magically decide off your own bat that you are not paying an entire months rent. Rent is not paid on a rolling 30 day period, it is calendar months. You pay on the 1st day of the month for the entire month (or whatever day of the month you pay on).

It matters not one iota that he gave notice on the 24th, he OWED rent for the entirety of July. He left a week before the end of July, his choice and his problem.

Who do you think reimburses him?

The only thing that his notice does is inform the remaining housemates that he won't be paying rent for August. Nothing more. He may as well have given his notice on the 31st July, giving it a week earlier doesn't give him any magic entitlements.

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awec

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No, it isn't. You pay on a set day every month and it covers you until that day the next month. It is a fixed term.

If you rented on a per-week basis then you pay rent once a week and it covers you until that day the next week. If you moved out midweek you wouldn't get half a week back.

Graham

It's a hard one to answer with any certainty when we don't know the specifics.

Assuming the original occupants all signed a lease/rental agreement, I would think it reasonable to suggest the original tenants remain jointly liable for the rent until they are replaced.

Pelvis

awec wrote: »

How do people not get this?

You cannot just magically decide off your own bat that you are not paying an entire months rent. Rent is not paid on a rolling 30 day period, it is calendar months. You pay on the 1st day of the month for the entire month (or whatever day of the month you pay on).

It matters not one iota that he gave notice on the 24th, he OWED rent for the entirety of July. He left a week before the end of July, his choice and his problem.

Who do you think reimburses him?

The only thing that his notice does is inform the remaining housemates that he won't be paying rent for August. Nothing more. He may as well have given his notice on the 31st July, giving it a week earlier doesn't give him any magic entitlements.

I don't pay rent on the 1st of the month. Nor do I pay per calendar month.

How do you not get that there are no rules with regards to renting. It's solely down to the terms laid out in the rental agreement. Which you nor I have read in this case. For all we know his rental agreement just states that 30 days notice must be given, which it was.

Pelvis

awec wrote: »

No, it isn't. You pay on a set day every month and it covers you until that day the next month. It is a fixed term.

That's not how my rent works.

awec

Pelvis wrote: »

I don't pay rent on the 1st of the month. Nor do I pay per calendar month.

How do you not get that there are no rules with regards to renting. It's solely down to the terms laid out in the rental agreement. Which you nor I have read in this case. For all we know his rental agreement just states that 30 days notice must be given, which it was.

The actual date doesn't matter, we are using the 1st as an example. Whatever period you pay in, that's what you pay for. You don't magically decide you're going to pay for less.

What rental agreement are you talking about? The tenancy is not ending in this situation, they are not giving notice to the landlord.

People are confusing someone moving out of a house share and a tenancy coming to an end with the landlord being given his notice.

awec

Pelvis wrote: »

That's not how my rent works.

Good for you, but again that's entirely irrelevant. In this case they pay per month (like 95% of all rentals out there), not makey-uppey times for whatever length of time they fancy paying for.

This is getting close to the realms of the people who think they don't have to pay rent for when they're on holiday etc.

bludcrazetiger

awec wrote: »

Good for you, but again that's entirely irrelevant. In this case they pay per month (like 95% of all rentals out there), not makey-uppey times for whatever length of time they fancy paying for.

This is getting close to the realms of the people who think they don't have to pay rent for when they're on holiday etc.

tbh its something the guy needs to decide himself, imo he owes it back - and in yours you feel he is right to keep the money!

if this guy who moved out rented the whole property with your man, then he should let ur man keep the 90e, where if he just rented a room ur man should give the money back as he gave and stuck to a 30 days notice.

dilallio

If he knew he was leaving on the 24th July, then why did he pay up to the end of July?

Sounds like he may have originally believed that he was obligated to pay the full month, but changed his mind afterwards.

Regardless of what he is or isn't entitled to, if he paid the full month in advance without coming to an agreement about the last 'unused' week of the month, then it was reasonable for the other tenants to assume that he would not be looking for a refund.

awec

bludcrazetiger wrote: »

tbh its something the guy needs to decide himself, imo he owes it back - and in yours you feel he is right to keep the money!

if this guy who moved out rented the whole property with your man, then he should let ur man keep the 90e, where if he just rented a room ur man should give the money back as he gave and stuck to a 30 days notice.

If he just rented a room then 100% he would be due it back as he'd have given 30 days notice to the landlord and it would be the landlord's responsibility to source a new tenant for that room.

Pelvis

awec wrote: »

The actual date doesn't matter, we are using the 1st as an example. Whatever period you pay in, that's what you pay for. You don't magically decide you're going to pay for less.

What rental agreement are you talking about? The tenancy is not ending in this situation, they are not giving notice to the landlord.

People are confusing someone moving out of a house share and a tenancy coming to an end with the landlord being given his notice.

No the tenancy is not ending, which means it's up to the people involved to sort this amongst themselves when the issue arises. And it's typical in a house share to arrange for a new tenant to move in when the old tenant moves out. The fact that most humans are capable of rudimentary arithmetic means we can calculate rent pro rata at any point throughout the month. Therefore avoiding such mishaps. It's really quite astonishing.

bludcrazetiger

awec wrote: »

If he just rented a room then 100% he would be due it back as he'd have given 30 days notice to the landlord and it would be the landlord's responsibility to source a new tenant for that room.

agree, this has happened to me before and I got my money back no questions asked (although he did take out about 20 euro as I broke a small flimsy bed side lamp which was in the room when I moved in! I could have replaced it myself for 10e! - but I wasn't going to argue)

awec

Pelvis wrote: »

No the tenancy is not ending, which means it's up to the people involved to sort this amongst themselves when the issue arises. And it's typical in a house share to arrange for a new tenant to move in when the old tenant moves out. The fact that most humans are capable of rudimentary arithmetic means we can calculate rent pro rata at any point throughout the month. Therefore avoiding such mishaps. It's really quite astonishing.

And if they couldn't get a tenant to move in on that date? Who ends up out of pocket?

Pelvis

awec wrote: »

And if they couldn't get a tenant to move in on that date?

Unless they live in the back arse of no where this is simply not possible in Ireland atm. Even if someone couldn't physically move on the date plenty would happily pay from that date to secure the room. I did this myself in my current place.

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Mrs OBumble

....... wrote: »

No - that is not how any of my own rentals worked. Or indeed how it works with my tenants today.

I certainly did pay on a set day per month but when I gave notice I only paid the outstanding time left in my notice, I did not have to pay the full month.

Same here.

Just cos someone stays until the 5th of August (for example) doesnt make them necessarily liable for the whole month.

Ideally i try to arrange things so a person only pays for when they stay.

Graham

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It's entirely believable.

4 people take on a tenancy for a house for a year, one decides to move out.

The landlord is not likely to accept a temporary reduction in rent.

awec

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That's because I am.

Sure, there are plenty of instances where things can be worked out and everyone is happy. But at the end of the day, when push comes to shove, the tenant leaving is responsible for the entire months rent. He has absolutely no entitlement to a refund whatsoever. If he can work it out so that nobody is out of pocket then that's great, but if anyone has to end up out of pocket it is the person leaving.

bludcrazetiger

bludcrazetiger wrote: »

tbh its something the guy needs to decide himself, imo he owes it back - and in yours you feel he is right to keep the money!

if this guy who moved out rented the whole property with your man, then he should let ur man keep the 90e, where if he just rented a room ur man should give the money back as he gave and stuck to a 30 days notice.

Who owes it back? The LL has the money and you hardly expect the op to pay him back out of his own pocket. The LL hasn't a hope of giving the money back as when you rent an entire place everyone is liable so even though he moved out someone owes the rent and I don't see why the op should have to pay extra so that means the person who moved out owes rent until a replacement is found.

If they were renting rooms separately it would be totally different as you are only responsible for your own room rent and its the reason I always preferred renting rooms as I never had to cover a housemate who moved out or who was behind with rent etc etc.

awec

Pelvis wrote: »

Unless they live in the back arse of no where this is simply not possible in Ireland atm. Even if someone couldn't physically move on the date plenty would happily pay from that date to secure the room. I did this myself in my current place.

The OP is in Kerry.

In Dublin this scenario is unlikely to arise I agree, but it's entirely possible in lower-demand rural areas.

XVII

if you are moving out after the lease is ended, you are not supposed to find any replacements, nor pay for any gaps. I was in the same situation (I was moving out, while 2 other guys were staying), and somehow we didn't have to discuss on that, it was obvious.

similarly, if it is during the lease, then he has to find a replacement, and pay for any gaps.

bludcrazetiger

Izabella High Puzzle wrote: »

Who owes it back? The LL has the money and you hardly expect the op to pay him back out of his own pocket. The LL hasn't a hope of giving the money back as when you rent an entire place everyone is liable so even though he moved out someone owes the rent and I don't see why the op should have to pay extra so that means the person who moved out owes rent until a replacement is found.

If they were renting rooms separately it would be totally different as you are only responsible for your own room rent and its the reason I always preferred renting rooms as I never had to cover a housemate who moved out or who was behind with rent etc etc.

you need to read my response properly my friend!
I stated if the guy simply just rented a room out, then the guy who rented the whole property should give the money back.

awec

XVII wrote: »

if you are moving out after the lease is ended, you are not supposed to find any replacements, nor pay for any gaps. I was in the same situation (I was moving out, while 2 other guys were staying), and somehow we didn't have to discuss on that, it was obvious.

similarly, if it is during the lease, then he has to find a replacement, and pay for any gaps.

This doesn't even make sense.

Do you think after the lease has ended that the landlord is suddenly happy to get less rent that month? The monthly rent is the same whether you're in the lease or out of the lease.

XVII

awec wrote: »

This doesn't even make sense.

Do you think after the lease has ended that the landlord is suddenly happy to get less rent that month?

I didn't mention anything about landlord. It's a responsibility of the people who are staying in the apartment that rent is paid fully in time.

My lease is finished, so I'm gone, how exactly that doesn't make sense?

awec

XVII wrote: »

I didn't mention anything about landlord. It's a responsibility of the people who are staying in the apartment that rent is paid fully in time.

My lease is finished, so I'm gone, how exactly that doesn't make sense?

Your responsibilities aren't. You are still liable for the rent once the fixed term is over, that just doesn't magically change once you become a part 4 tenant.

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