Stage 11 -Lorca - Observatorio Astronómico de Calar Alto 187.5km

dastardly00

MPFGLB wrote: »

Not sure what BMC shoulk do now as there are several very hard climbs to come

Maybe try for stages instead ...hard to know

I think they can still aim for a decent GC placing.
I wouldn't bet the house on De La Cruz, Kelderman, Zakarin and Woods not having very bad days before Madrid.

Blowfish

dastardly00 wrote: »

What would you change?

Half the size of the teams and increase the number. Sky wouldn't be able to rotate domestiques to the same extent.

MPFGLB

dastardly00 wrote: »

I think they can still aim for a decent GC placing.
I wouldn't bet the house on De La Cruz, Kelderman, Zakarin and Woods not having very bad days before Madrid.

Maybe ..Zakarin though can doa great tt as can Kelderman but with stage 15 and stage 20 ....well we will see

Lusk_Doyle

MPFGLB wrote: »

I know everyone likes climbing but I found that stage boring....it was just a waiting , waiting & waiting for the end

I find that's the way it is on most climbing stages. I much prefer watching complete and utter devastation on a flat, windy stage with splits all over the place and everyone killing themselves to get back on. That's pure pain and great racing to watch. I much rather that over the mountain processions usually witnessed.

eeeee

Think they should introduce a financial cap on teams.
Level the playing field.

Lusk_Doyle

nee wrote: »

Think they should introduce a financial cap on teams.
Level the playing field.

Imagine a rider walk out like the hockey players did in the NHL a while back! No racing for a season!

Daroxtar

Long mountain stages are often just attrition til the last 3 km. Short stages are often glorious carnage. Stage 15 and 20 are 129 and 117 km respectively. I really hope there will be chaos on those days

TheBlaaMan

With Sky domination set to continue, I think the outlook for this sport as a spectator spectacle is fairly bleak. I know that is a bit 'doom and gloom' in terms of a viewpoint, but there is little chance of a significant rule change that would 're-balance' things - even if that was desirable, which in itself is a questionable approach.

There is little or no chance of either a salary cap or budget cap being implemented, IMO. Reduction of team size might be more likely, but could take a long time to be applied, as there would be a significant number of objections.

None of this is new or hasn't been seen in other sports - most motorsports have been through it and not a lot has changed - the best financed teams continue to win and attract the best talent, which increases their win rates, etc etc. It is self perpetuating.

I would think it is far more likely that Sky will ultimately become so dominant that they will suck up more and more wins and eventually get bored with this sport and move on. Another team will then take over as the No1 and so it will continue. Kinda sad but kinda inevitable.

MPFGLB

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

I find that's the way it is on most climbing stages. I much prefer watching complete and utter devastation on a flat, windy stage with splits all over the place and everyone killing themselves to get back on. That's pure pain and great racing to watch. I much rather that over the mountain processions usually witnessed.

I love a rolling stage like stage 6 of this Vuelta ...there are splits all over the place, climbing, up and down all day..riders dropping and comeing back on ..lots of different riders can do well and its so hard to control

SKY have not managed to strangle these kind of stages/races

Just look at some of the stages in Tour of Yorkshire or Eneco Tour ...much more my cup of tea

These long mountain stages are very boring now as SKY have them down to a tee and no one can or does indeed attack until the lst KM..if indeed they ever do

Only Contador could take anything to Froome in the last few years and he is past his best and will be gone soon

Froome is an admirable climber and leader but its all too formulaic

Nibal can do stuff like attack on descents , ride cobbles, TT but he has no answer for the SKY train and neither has Quintana

retalivity

Where the hell has moscon come from? His debut tour, and another stellar ride in support of froome again

Brian?

Will yis all give over with the moaning!

Froome'a domination will end soon enough. He's the only one capable of winning it for Sky.

eeeee

Brian? wrote: »

Will yis all give over with the moaning!

Froome'a domination will end soon enough. He's the only one capable of winning it for Sky.

Mooooooaaaaaannnnnnn! :P

Beasty

nee wrote: »

Think they should introduce a financial cap on teams.
Level the playing field.

It's never worked in other sports

One of the issues for example would be technology - are the boffins developing stuff for Team GB, or will Team Sky also get some benefit - where does the cap "fit"?

I thought Sky were not the biggest payers either (might be across the team, and I've little doubt Froome will be cashing in) - how would personal vs team sponsorship work? There are also restraint of trade issues within the EU if you try and cap salaries.

Than there's the whole issue of providing stuff "in kind" and valuing it (such as the latest equipment)

eeeee

Hmm I think it can work. It takes the comercialism out of it.
Development can still happen, but it makes it more available to everyone, as all have teh same resources to invest.
You can calculate benefit in kind.
There would be fiddlement for sure, as theyre would be with any system, but the whole whoever has the most money wins kills every sport it's a part of too.
Personal sponsorship could be a different thing to team sponsorship.

It can work, at the minute the disparity to far too great, and leads to an F1 style arms race, except with buying people more than technological development.

Innovation will always happen, it happens on companies anyway. Look at disc brakes, (I know it's hard). They came from the outside and creeping in, this is the way it would be I guess. Teams have more control over equipment too, and easier for sponsors to support the sport, and get a return, instead of a few very wealthy sponsors making themselves and their teams wealthier and widen the gap between the haves and the have nots. Not justified IMO.

I can't help but feel like this is an allegory for something...

I know we'll ultimately have to agree to disagree Beasty, I'll always be in the red corner

Beasty

nee wrote: »

I know we'll ultimately have to agree to disagree Beasty, I'll always be in the red corner

No probs - I know what you commies are like - we have one at work.....:pac:

However I would just add that commercialism it what allows the sport to survive. Take that away and you get no sponsors. Take the sponsors away and the sport returns to its amateur days (which were not particularly glorious)

Borderfox

I was looking forward to that stage but it was a bit meh.

If I was given an option to change it would be to remove race radios, DS with live tv on in the car can relay every single detail to the riders

Lusk_Doyle

You can't take commercialism out of pro sport. It's a business for heaven's sake!

Russman

Borderfox wrote: »

If I was given an option to change it would be to remove race radios, DS with live tv on in the car can relay every single detail to the riders

This ^^^ and powermeters also. Even as an experiment for a few races, although ideally it'd need to be at a grand tour that Froome is competing it, because in real terms that's all Sky are really interested in winning IMO.

Maybe the sport is in a quiet period where there just aren't any really good dominant riders. Contador is well past his best, most of the others from say pre 2012 are gone or have been busted. Quintana might be the man over the next while but he hasn't seemed himself most of the season.

I wonder have the GT's become too much of a climbers preserve ? When is the last time a genuine all-rounder won one ? Valverde maybe ? Does Nibali count as one ?

neris

Russman wrote: »

Maybe the sport is in a quiet period where there just aren't any really good dominant riders. Contador is well past his best, most of the others from say pre 2012 are gone or have been busted. Quintana might be the man over the next while but he hasn't seemed himself most of the season.

I wonder have the GT's become too much of a climbers preserve ? When is the last time a genuine all-rounder won one ? Valverde maybe ? Does Nibali count as one ?

Agree about lack of genuine contenders. Watching the last few GTs I think there are a lot of over rated riders who can't compete with Froome and are touted as GC riders. Zakarin, Aru, the Yates twins, Teejay. I know Arus won gts but not with Froome finishing and the young riders comp in TDF is a mickey mouse award

pelevin

Russman wrote: »

I wonder have the GT's become too much of a climbers preserve ? When is the last time a genuine all-rounder won one ? Valverde maybe ? Does Nibali count as one ?

Your question is a reasonable one about whether the GTs are too geared towards teh climbers but in terms of genuine all-rounders winning you only have to look to this year's Giro won by Tom Dumoulin whose initial reputation as a cyclist has been as a time-trial specialist.

Russman

pelevin wrote: »

Your question is a reasonable one about whether the GTs are too geared towards teh climbers but in terms of genuine all-rounders winning you only have to look to this year's Giro won by Tom Dumoulin whose initial reputation as a cyclist has been as a time-trial specialist.

Fair point, I forgot about him alright.

I'd still love to see a few GTs where the all rounders are realistic contenders to win even if the top guys all turn up (albeit they might need extra luck or a surprise tactic or something).

De Bhál

Russman wrote: »

Fair point, I forgot about him alright.

I'd still love to see a few GTs where the all rounders are realistic contenders to win even if the top guys all turn up (albeit they might need extra luck or a surprise tactic or something).

yeah but bar outright sprinting Froome is an all-rounder in many ways

MPFGLB

De Bhál wrote: »

yeah but bar outright sprinting Froome is an all-rounder in many ways

Emmm?

He is not great on rolling terraine, nor on cobbles ...and he has his team at all times dictating the race...so hard to know if he could think for himself if the formula was changed

For me Nibali, Valverde and Purito are/were all rounders

Daroxtar

MPFGLB wrote: »

Emmm?

He is not great on rolling terraine, nor on cobbles ...and he has his team at all times dictating the race...so hard to know if he could think for himself if the formula was changed

For me Nibali, Valverde and Purito are/were all rounders

Dunno, what about Puritos TT ability?

MPFGLB

Daroxtar wrote: »

Dunno, what about Puritos TT ability?

Well yeah...Purito TT ...I will give you that

But Nibali & Valverde ....Sagan & Kwaito could be too

Also Dumoulin looks like a great all rounder

It unfair really that GTs dont let all rounders have more of a chance at GC

terrydel

dastardly00 wrote: »

What would you change?

Me - smaller teams, cap the budget, which I think would help on a number of levels, ban power meters, limit use of team radio, more short,sharp stages.

dastardly00

terrydel wrote: »

Me - smaller teams, cap the budget, which I think would help on a number of levels, ban power meters, limit use of team radio, more short,sharp stages.

I think a budget cap would probably have the most impact