Sold car, gave logbook. Owner no longer wants the car

I love Sean nos

XsApollo wrote: »

But if it's a couple with kids or a person that's after dropping a lot of dough on a nice car and then now being in the position of having nothing and they could be in trouble Financially and now in the Sh*t.

Depending on the type of person you are you could say FYou and ignore them.
Or you could offer a few quid back to help them get it fixed.
If it genuinely snapped and they are honest people depending on the money involved you could offer something back
Towards the repair.
You would be facing the bill now yourself if it is genuine.

Anyway some of the responses just seem a bit harsh.

When you're looking to next change your car, PM me and I'll seriously consider buying it from you.

XsApollo

I love Sean nos wrote: »

When you're looking to next change your car, PM me and I'll seriously consider buying it from you.

I have a 2010 Audi A6 sline that can be bought if you like.
But knowing how you would treat me if it was the other way around you wouldn't be hearing from me as soon as you went out the drive :-D

Seriously a bit of context is great.
A 3000 euro car I wouldn't be too pushed myself.

But the attitude of ignore and f*ck em is pretty shi*ty without knowing anything.
Legally you are obliged to do nothing.
As a person if you don't give a fukc about the other person that's your own business.
What goes around comes around,
Wouldn't be the attitude I'd have myself.

coylemj

mordajedna wrote: »

Also the owner never specifically said it's the timing chain. He actually said "belt" and that the car is "totalled" and "needs entire new engine".

It probably does need a new engine. And a new catalytic converter - because he has swapped out the ones that were in the car when you sold it to him.

But even if this is not a scam, legally he doesn't have a leg to stand on and the less you engage with him the better because if he sniffs that you are prepared to 'meet him halfway' (i.e. give him cash to p1ss off), you'll never shake him off.

Any lawyer will tell you that the legal principle that applies in a private sale is 'caveat emptor' - let the buyer beware. It states that the buyer basically has little or no rights. You sold the car in good faith, it's now his problem.

BeQuiet

I was selling an old Renault Scenic in July for a few hundred. Got an offer and took it from a 'travelling man' . He paid me the cash , and drove off. We did all the paperwork and he signed the ownership transfer although he wasnt too sure of his own address!
Then he comes back the next day looking for his money back .... no reason - just changed his mind! As he was a hard chaw and not the brightest, I figured it would be easier to give him the cash and deal with the forms hassle myself.
From sounds of OPs issue here, this guy is a similar or worse chancer - my tuppence worth would be to not even take his calls or have anything to do with him.

_Kaiser_

XsApollo wrote: »

As a person if you don't give a fukc about the other person that's your own business.
What goes around comes around,
Wouldn't be the attitude I'd have myself.

Personally I've never been one for all that "karma" superstition and such, but you're making a bit of a leap inferring that some here "don't give a fúck" about others.

The OP's buyer inspected the car and was happy to proceed and pay based on this. Now they're claiming something is wrong and wanting their money back.

1) The OP is not a car dealer/business thus did not offer a warranty

2) There's no telling what the buyer may have done to the car in the interim

3) Giving cash back as you suggest (even as goodwill) could be inferred as the OP admitting they knew something was wrong, thus potentially leaving him liable for far bigger costs.

In short, if the buyer wanted a warranty and comeback they should have bought from a dealer, not the OP

XsApollo

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Personally I've never been one for all that "karma" superstition and such, but you're making a bit of a leap inferring that some here "don't give a fúck" about others.

The OP's buyer inspected the car and was happy to proceed and pay based on this. Now they're claiming something is wrong and wanting their money back.

1) The OP is not a car dealer/business thus did not offer a warranty

2) There's no telling what the buyer may have done to the car in the interim

3) Giving cash back as you suggest (even as goodwill) could be inferred as the OP admitting they knew something was wrong, thus potentially leaving him liable for far bigger costs.

In short, if the buyer wanted a warranty and comeback they should have bought from a dealer, not the OP

Context man,
Nobody new the context of the ops dealings and we're all on the bandwagon of tough Luck ignore them.
Nobody knew the price of the car, type of car , type of people that bought it.

Obviously they wouldn't be worrying about the other person if they are saying ignore them , tough luck caveat emptor

Back to my main point and my first post was asking what type of deal was it , who were you dealing with.
If I sold my car to some hard up genuine person, or some single mother with kids
Who was going to be up sh*t creek,
No I wouldn't have that attitude.
Would you yourself?
Legally he doesn't have to do nothing.
It's up to him what he wants to do after that.

bazz26

Where do you draw the line though, what if that hard up buyer was back to you the week after next with another problem? Do you fix that too or tell them to get on their bike? How far does your generosity go as you have now set a precedence? If you wear your heart on your sleeve when it comes to selling stuff to strangers then you'll be both out of pocket and made a fool of very quickly.

MarkR

XsApollo wrote: »

Context man,
Nobody new the context of the ops dealings and we're all on the bandwagon of tough Luck ignore them.
Nobody knew the price of the car, type of car , type of people that bought it.

Obviously they wouldn't be worrying about the other person if they are saying ignore them , tough luck caveat emptor

Back to my main point and my first post was asking what type of deal was it , who were you dealing with.
If I sold my car to some hard up genuine person, or some single mother with kids
Who was going to be up sh*t creek,
No I wouldn't have that attitude.
Would you yourself?
Legally he doesn't have to do nothing.
It's up to him what he wants to do after that.

What about if it was a single father? Or do they have to have kids? Does it matter if I have kids? Does my marital status come into it?

XsApollo

Look nobody knew what the car was or how much money was involved.
If it was a 15 - 20k car and the engine shat itself after a few days I probably throw them a grand or 2 and be done with it.
A 3k I probably wouldn't do anything.
Or Give em a couple of hundred quid and be done with it.
Just to be clear both instances I wouldn't take the car back.
But I wouldn't be saying tough luck, and blocking their number, or actually that depends on how they are really.

I've sold plenty of stuff online and had one or 2 complaints but I have never had the attitude of tough luck don't ring me again.
Depends on who I am dealing with.

XsApollo

MarkR wrote: »

What about if it was a single father? Or do they have to have kids? Does it matter if I have kids? Does my marital status come into it?

Are you putting words in my mouth now or what?

coylemj

XsApollo wrote: »

Look nobody knew what the car was or how much money was involved.
If it was a 15 - 20k car and the engine shat itself after a few days I probably throw them a grand or 2 and be done with it.

But if you gave the buyer a partial refund, you would not be 'done with it' because you would have tacitly admitted that you had a liability in the matter and the follow-up would be a solicitor's letter looking for the balance.

Not a cent. Caveat emptor. Can't say it often enough.

XsApollo

Ok. That depends on the other person too as well.
Anyway
I'm out now
I don't fancy a long debate about it.
It's not the attitude I would have is my point.

godtabh

XsApollo wrote: »

Look nobody knew what the car was or how much money was involved.
If it was a 15 - 20k car and the engine shat itself after a few days I probably throw them a grand or 2 and be done with it.
A 3k I probably wouldn't do anything.
Or Give em a couple of hundred quid and be done with it.
Just to be clear both instances I wouldn't take the car back.
But I wouldn't be saying tough luck, and blocking their number, or actually that depends on how they are really.

I've sold plenty of stuff online and had one or 2 complaints but I have never had the attitude of tough luck don't ring me again.
Depends on who I am dealing with.

What if the OP was selling the car out of desperation and need the cash?

TheShow

XsApollo wrote: »

Ok. That depends on the other person too as well.
Anyway
I'm out now
I don't fancy a long debate about it.
It's not the attitude I would have is my point.

I get what you're saying and there is nothing wrong with having a conscience, its an unfortunate situation, but at the end of the day it is what it is. As per the OP's comments, the buyer inspected the motor and purchased as seen. Deal done, no swapsies.

mordajedna

Well, first of all, thanks everyone for their input. I was not expecting this amount of replies in such a short notice.

The new owner is attempting to convince me that the car is still my "liability" as I didn't sign the papers, to which I politely reply that I am happy to comply with the vehicle ownership transfer regulations & meet to sign the documents in his presence.

Moreover, the new owner attempts to somehow tell me that I knew about the timing chain ?! His mechanic told him that it should rattle when the engine is cold. Funny enough, I started the car cold with him @ the inspection and neither one of us could hear any rattle whatsoever.

I also have a proof that the car was working as the owner drove through M50 toll gate and the letter came to my address...today.

I feel bad for him as I bought few lemons back in my day, and I know it hurts. In my case, it was a head gasket on Lexus IS200... It took me a year of putting new parts in the car before I figured out what was wrong with it (the car kept losing coolant through overflow pipe (although quite slow) but no chocolate milk etc...). The previous owner definitely knew about that issue but there wasn't really any way back.

My bet would be that after buying the car, he red-lined the engine while cold or downshifted like an idiot. The chain still shouldn't have broken but well, unlucky.

kona

BeQuiet wrote: »

Got an offer and took it from a 'travelling man' .

The first rule of selling cars, dont sell to "insert pc term here"

WealthyB

kona wrote: »

The first rule of selling cars, dont sell to "insert pc term here"

First rule of anything.

I love Sean nos

XsApollo wrote: »

I have a 2010 Audi A6 sline that can be bought if you like.
But knowing how you would treat me if it was the other way around you wouldn't be hearing from me as soon as you went out the drive :-D

Bit hypocritical of you not to behave while preaching to the OP.

goochy

Did you give a receipt to say you received money ? tell him you will call the guards if he persists.
even if you knew there was a fault - he cant get dealer comeback with private sale - if the chain was close to going - it would have been a bit noisey ?
anyone who buys privately without professional inspection gets no sympathy from me.

Duke O Smiley

First of all, a logbook is not proof of ownership so the car is 100% not your "liability". Tell him to keep it, frame it if he wants. Get onto Shannon again and tell them the car no longer belongs to you. Same with eflow and the likes.

And then cut all contact. Do not offer to pay a cent, do not contact this person at all.

XsApollo

I love Sean nos wrote: »

Bit hypocritical of you not to behave while preaching to the OP.

I wasn't preaching to the op.
I was preaching too people like you,
saying, you have his money , keep it.
Treat people like they treat you and all that :-)

Duke O Smiley

XsApollo wrote: »

Treat people like they treat you and all that :-)

Well yer man in this case hasn't been exactly amiable, has he?

Sleeper12

OSI wrote:

He bought the car as seen. Unless he can prove you deliberately misled him, tell him to **** off.

I've been told that a timing chain isn't like a timing belt. Timing belt can snap without warning but I've been told that a timing chain makes a fierce racked long before it snaps. If this is the case op couldn't have fooled him even if he wanted to

XsApollo

Duke O Smiley wrote: »

Well yer man in this case hasn't been exactly amiable, has he?

I agree.
I wouldn't give him anything either.
Majority of the discussion happened before there was any context given.

the_syco

XsApollo wrote: »

Who was going to be up sh*t creek,
No I wouldn't have that attitude.
Would you yourself?

I wouldn't leave myself open to a lawsuit by admitting liability by giving the buyer cash to fix the car. Heck, unless he showed me the car, I wouldn't believe them.

XsApollo wrote: »

Look nobody knew what the car was or how much money was involved.
If it was a 15 - 20k car and the engine shat itself after a few days I probably throw them a grand or 2 and be done with it.

Giving any money means you admit liability. A decent lawyer will squeeze the cost of a new engine out of you.

XsApollo wrote: »

It's not the attitude I would have is my point.

How about you just give a full refund, and let them keep the car?

XsApollo wrote: »

Majority of the discussion happened before there was any context given.

The context is that it was a private sale.

jasper100

mordajedna wrote: »

Well, first of all, thanks everyone for their input. I was not expecting this amount of replies in such a short notice.

The new owner is attempting to convince me that the car is still my "liability" as I didn't sign the papers, to which I politely reply that I am happy to comply with the vehicle ownership transfer regulations & meet to sign the documents in his presence.

Moreover, the new owner attempts to somehow tell me that I knew about the timing chain ?! His mechanic told him that it should rattle when the engine is cold. Funny enough, I started the car cold with him @ the inspection and neither one of us could hear any rattle whatsoever.

I also have a proof that the car was working as the owner drove through M50 toll gate and the letter came to my address...today.

I feel bad for him as I bought few lemons back in my day, and I know it hurts. In my case, it was a head gasket on Lexus IS200... It took me a year of putting new parts in the car before I figured out what was wrong with it (the car kept losing coolant through overflow pipe (although quite slow) but no chocolate milk etc...). The previous owner definitely knew about that issue but there wasn't really any way back.

My bet would be that after buying the car, he red-lined the engine while cold or downshifted like an idiot. The chain still shouldn't have broken but well, unlucky.

Go to your solicitor. Sign an affidavit that you are no longer the owner since xx date. Send it to Shannon. Absolves you of all liability concerning parking tickets, ownership, crashes etc. in case yer man acts the dick.

I had something of a similar situation, guy said he would post in a log book, never did and then I started getting tickets.

An affidavit costs €10 IIRC.

It's a while since it happened me so I can't remember exactly the procedure but either or Shannon or your solicitor will explain how to wash your hands of all this.

Do this immediately then forget about yer man.

XsApollo

the_syco wrote: »

I wouldn't leave myself open to a lawsuit by admitting liability by giving the buyer cash to fix the car. Heck, unless he showed me the car, I wouldn't believe them.


Giving any money means you admit liability. A decent lawyer will squeeze the cost of a new engine out of you.


How about you just give a full refund, and let them keep the car?


The context is that it was a private sale.

That's good.
Still doesn't mean it's not a sh*t attitude to have.
As soon as you sell something, block their number and run.

Henry Ford III

Time to be firm with your buyer OP. Tell him it's unfortunate what's happened but from the point he paid you and drove off in the car any future liability was solely his. It's a private sale and no warranty exists.

Then tell him not to contact you again.

bludcrazetiger

this is why you shouldn't sell a car privately from your home (meet at a public place, even a police station car park I have done previously) and never, never give the log book over EVER!

jasper100

XsApollo wrote: »

As soon as you sell something, block their number and run.

Of course. Its a private sale.

Or else advertise it as a business sale, charge XX% extra and offer comeback if there is a problem.

Same for the buyer. For peace of mind people can buy off a shop, business or dealer. Some do, some don't. Their choice.