Kids on Flights

caniask86

Candie wrote: »

People do indeed have their own stuff, but they're adults so are likely to be better equipped to deal with them for a few hours than a special needs child.

I think we're down the rabbit hole of entitlement top trumps when you can't be irritated at an adult huffing and puffing at an autistic child, in case the adult is also autistic. The far more likely explanation is that the adult is just being rude.

If the kid kicks off and the parents are trying to deal with it, there is nothing that eye-rolling, sighing, or dirty looks will add to the situation other than make it even more stressful and unlikely to be resolved.

Thanks Candie for explaining this much better than I can. Exactly this.

caniask86

irishmoss wrote: »

But isn't that the whole point of this conversation? A mother subjected her autistic child to a two hour flight and the child was in complete distress for an hour and a half. Why is her mother not listening to her child's distress instead of posting on Facebook how her fellow passengers were annoyed.[/quote

Subjected... Hmm. Maybe her son hates the plane but it's the only way to get to his nanny who he loves. My son hates getting his hair cut, nails trimmed etc but is delighted with the results. Also hates and screams at injections but needs them.
Isn't there alot on this thread judging women from bringing in plane, is this for the child's sake of their own.
We all deserve the same enjoyment of life special needs or not.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

So when your son is an adult, would you not appreciate people showing some consideration to his needs or is he fair game when he reaches adulthood? That he needs to ignore triggers and accept he's not as important as a screaming child?

caniask86

LexieOnRale wrote: »

So when your son is an adult, would you not appreciate people showing some consideration to his needs or is he fair game when he reaches adulthood? That he needs to ignore triggers and accept he's not as important as a screaming child?

I'll be raising him with understanding and compassion. Hopefully through early intervention and support he will learn the ability to cope in difficult situations in adulthood if not he will have a companion or carer with him which I'm sure will explain the situation to him and put on his ear defenders or music.

irelandrover

Candie wrote: »

People do indeed have their own stuff, but they're adults so are likely to be better equipped to deal with them for a few hours than a special needs child.

I think we're down the rabbit hole of entitlement top trumps when you can't be irritated at an adult huffing and puffing at an autistic child, in case the adult is also autistic. The far more likely explanation is that the adult is just being rude.

If the kid kicks off and the parents are trying to deal with it, there is nothing that eye-rolling, sighing, or dirty looks will add to the situation other than make it even more stressful and unlikely to be resolved.

The parent should just ignore the eye roll. How many eye rolls or dirty looks do you get on a flight? You cant expect people to ignore a screaming child and then not ignore an eye roll or quick dirty look.

caniask86

irelandrover wrote: »

The parent should just ignore the eye roll. How many eye rolls or dirty looks do you get on a flight? You cant expect people to ignore a screaming child and then not ignore an eye roll or quick dirty look.

What about the child? My child is emotional intelligent and high IQ. He understands this dirty looks and eyerolls.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

caniask86 wrote: »

What about the child? My child is emotional intelligent and high IQ. He understands this dirty looks and eyerolls.

Just tell the child the truth if he's able to understand. "When people scream constantly, some people find that upsetting and don't enjoy listening to it on a plane".

caniask86

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Just tell the child the truth if he's able to understand. "When people scream constantly, some people find that upsetting and don't enjoy listening to it on a plane".

Hope we are never beside you on a plane

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

caniask86 wrote: »

Hope we are never beside you on a plan.

Hope so

irishmoss

caniask86 wrote: »

Subjected... Hmm. Maybe her son hates the plane but it's the only way to get to his nanny who he loves. My son hates getting his hair cut, nails trimmed etc but is delighted with the results. Also hates and screams at injections but needs them.
Isn't there alot on this thread judging women from bringing in plane, is this for the child's sake of their own.
We all deserve the same enjoyment of life special needs or not.

In this case the mother was going on holidays with her partner and two other children.

The things you describe above that your son hates are necessary to his welfare. Of course you deserve enjoyment of life like everyone else but that doesn't mean putting a child in an enclosed space for two to three hours when they have sensory issues. Holiday's don't have to be a two hour plane journey.

If this situation happened anywhere else I'd have no sympathy for the complainers because they could get up and walk away. But in this situation everyone was trapped.

keith_sixteen

irishmoss wrote: »

If this situation happened anywhere else I'd have no sympathy for the complainers because they could get up and walk away. But in this situation everyone was trapped.

Trapped. Give me a break. Nothing stopping the precious hostages from buying first class tickets now, is there?

Bitches Be Trypsin

I have always believed that's kids who can't behave themselves shouldn't fly. I know this child had autism and was young, but all the more reason not to have her fly. It's unfair on the other passengers.

caniask86

irishmoss wrote: »

In this case the mother was going on holidays with her partner and two other children.

The things you describe above that your son hates are necessary to his welfare. Of course you deserve enjoyment of life like everyone else but that doesn't mean putting a child in an enclosed space for two to three hours when they have sensory issues. Holiday's don't have to be a two hour plane journey.

If this situation happened anywhere else I'd have no sympathy for the complainers because they could get up and walk away. But in this situation everyone was trapped.

Yes two children who deserve a holiday too. My god get some earphones.

Should all autistic children in Ireland and any children who may or may not scream stay within driving range incase they upset other passengers.

Well then it offends me when people drink on planes and go on stupid cause I'm trapped there too. Lets ban all alcoholic drinks.

Bitches Be Trypsin

caniask86 wrote: »

Yes two children who deserve a holiday too. My god get some earphones.

Should all austitic children in Ireland and any children who may or may not scream stay within driving range incase they upset other passengers.

Well then it offends me when people drink on planes and go on stupid cause I'm trapped there too. Lets ban all alcoholic drinks.

Leave the others go on holiday and have her stay at a relatives or something.

Autistic kids tend to dislike change. Staying in a hotel in a different climate with a different language will be a huge change

caniask86

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

I have always believed that's kids who can't behave themselves shouldn't fly. I know this child had autism and was young, but all the more reason not to have her fly. It's unfair on the other passengers.

I could say the same about you. What If I don't like what you are doing on a plane. If you are crying because you are nervous etc then you shouldn't fly.

Your attitude is horrible and it certainly would change if you had a child with autism I've no doubt.

Bitches Be Trypsin

caniask86 wrote: »

Yes two children who deserve a holiday too. My god get some earphones.

Should all autistic children in Ireland and any children who may or may not scream stay within driving range incase they upset other passengers.

Well then it offends me when people drink on planes and go on stupid cause I'm trapped there too. Lets ban all alcoholic drinks.

caniask86 wrote: »

I could say the same about you. What If I don't like what you are doing on a plane. If you are crying because you are nervous etc then you shouldn't fly.

Your attitude is horrible and it certainly would change if you had a child with autism I've no doubt.

I don't cry on planes or cause a fuss...

caniask86

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

Leave the others go on holiday and have her stay at a relatives or something.

Autistic kids tend to dislike change. Staying in a hotel in a different climate with a different language will be a huge change

Are you an expert on all autistic children. Wow. You do realise there are different levels and issues on the spectrum right.

It is good to encourage change and for the child to experience new things. How are they ever meant to get used to flying if they never go.

If you can't be considerate maybe you should holiday at home. Take your own advice. Spare people.

caniask86

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

I don't cry on planes or cause a fuss...

You might find yourself in that situation one day. Life can be unpredictable.

Bitches Be Trypsin

caniask86 wrote: »

Are you an expert on all autistic children. Wow. You do realise there are different levels and issues on the spectrum right.

It is good to encourage change and for the child to experience new things. How are they ever meant to get used to flying if they never go.

If you can't be considerate maybe you should holiday at home. Take your own advice. Spare people.

I am incredibly considerate and sympathise with people if it's a 5 or 10 minute tantrum. But one of that length is ridiculous. Ruining everyone else's flight over one person.

Some parents, not saying you, don't seem to understand that you can discipline an autistic child, and teach them basic concepts of right and wrong. Sometimes all the kindness and understanding in the world doesn't work so punishment should be implemented, depending on the child obviously

caniask86

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

I am incredibly considerate and sympathise with people if it's a 5 or 10 minute tantrum. But one of that length is ridiculous. Ruining everyone else's flight over one person.

Some parents, not saying you, don't seem to understand that you can discipline an autistic child, and teach them basic concepts of right and wrong. Sometimes all the kindness and understanding in the world doesn't work so punishment should be implemented, depending on the child obviously

I do agree with discipline part but my son has no learning difficulties and can be reasoned with and that is why he is going to mainstream school. However through my son I know many children with ASD. No child is alike and tantrums are handled differently with all children. I was not on that aeroplane but I do know that if a child is affected by noise we have ear defenders or earphones as a preferred movie for him as distraction. We also have toys that are wrapped up and he gets them as reward.

Every child is different and I obviously have a lot of sympathy for other parents as being an ASD parent s tough and daily we get a lot of negative comments. It's hard.

mewe

Seriously, can people stop dispensing advice to caniask86 on how to rear a child with autism. I'm sure she has more experience than ye in this regard and quite frankly ye're "advice" is disrespectful to say the least and disgraceful in my opinion.

Bitches Be Trypsin

caniask86 wrote: »

I do agree with discipline part but my son has no learning difficulties and can be reasoned with and that is why he is going to mainstream school. However through my son I know many children with ASD. No child is alike and tantrums are handled differently with all children. I was not on that aeroplane but I do know that if a child is affected by noise we have ear defenders or earphones as a preferred movie for him as distraction. We also have toys that are wrapped up and he gets them as reward.

Every child is different and I obviously have a lot of sympathy for other parents as being an ASD parent s tough and daily we get a lot of negative comments. It's hard.

Of course it's hard. Nobody said it's not. And none of the situation is the child's fault. It's just the parents should have been equipped with an iPad and earphones, special toy, whatever it is that helps that specific child in these situations!

Bitches Be Trypsin

mewe wrote: »

Seriously, can people stop dispensing advice to caniask86 on how to rear a child with autism. I'm sure she has more experience than ye in this regard and quite frankly ye're "advice" is disrespectful to say the least and disgraceful in my opinion.

People aren't advising her on how to parent. We are offering our opinions about the aerlingus flight incident. We are discussing it, on a discussion board.

mewe

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

People aren't advising her on how to parent. We are offering our opinions about the aerlingus flight incident. We are discussing it, on a discussion board.

Oh I get we're on a discussion board. That doesn't equate to not being able to call out someone for when they're dispensing advice to someone when they're in no position to.

Pac1Man

I blame the Wright brothers.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

mewe wrote: »

Oh I get we're on a discussion board. That doesn't equate to not being able to call out someone for when they're dispensing advice to someone when they're in no position to.

Okay but are you not advising others on what to say?

jackofalltrades

Can people give it a rest with suggesting to people to travel first class.
Autistic children aren't banned from first class.
That and first class cabins are a rarity on short haul travel or are too expensive for most.

Are people really trying to compare crying to loud screaming/seat kicking over a prolonged period of time.
IME nervous flyers tend to go really quite.
That and people know how to deal with someone crying.
Less would know how to deal with a child having a tantrum.
And even less would know how to deal with an autistic child having a tantrum.

Also earplugs are not some kind of magic solution that block out all noise.
They do reduce it but screaming is very loud, your still going to notice it.

LirW

I must be deaf then but I have some crappy 'came with the phone' ear plugs but when I put them in and have my music on a bit louder than average I'm not hearing anything beside the ever present plane buzzing. Honestly the plane buzz makes all the noise a lot more insignificant.
But to be fair, I'd probably sleep when there's an elephant stomping next to me.

caniask86

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Can people give it a rest with suggesting to people to travel first class.
Autistic children aren't banned from first class.
That and first class cabins are a rarity on short haul travel or are too expensive for most.

Are people really trying to compare crying to loud screaming/seat kicking over a prolonged period of time.
IME nervous flyers tend to go really quite.
That and people know how to deal with someone crying.
Less would know how to deal with a child having a tantrum.
And even less would know how to deal with an autistic child having a tantrum.

Also earplugs are not some kind of magic solution that block out all noise.
They do reduce it but screaming is very loud, your still going to notice it.

:eek: Really ban Autistic children from first class?

Can every please stop trying to say Autistic children should stay at home.

kittensmittens

I was in a flight once where a guy about 18 with what appeared to be cerebral palsy and learning difficulty etc was on. He, and what I assumed were his parents were seated in the very first aisle as you board. They were boarded first as per the norm. It was a long haul flight. He couldn't speak but was making a lot of sounds etc(not loud,just sort of grunts ).
There was a middle age couple boarding just before us and obviously they could see him too.
They guy said to his wife "sweet fukc, we are behind this shyte for the next 11 hours, ffs"
I almost saw red for that family.

I have seen and encountered so many asshat adults, whose self entitled bitching and whnging over SFA in flights over the years(the above just being the mist cold hearted ), that I am certain that these people are just miserable shytehawks in everyday life.

irishmoss

caniask86 wrote: »

You might find yourself in that situation one day. Life can be unpredictable.

Ne're a truer word was spoken!

In your case you know your own child well and how he behaves. The thing that got me though in this case was the mother complaining people were covering their ears and being rude. She admitted her child screamed for an hour and a half so I think she should have had some understanding of how others were effected on that flight. This was a serious meltdown, not a brief crying session.

caniask86

kittensmittens wrote: »

I was in a flight once where a guy about 18 with what appeared to be cerebral palsy and learning difficulty etc was on. He, and what I assumed were his parents were seated in the very first aisle as you board. They were boarded first as per the norm. It was a long haul flight. He couldn't speak but was making a lot of sounds etc(not loud,just sort of grunts ).
There was a middle age couple boarding just before us and obviously they could see him too.
They guy said to his wife "sweet fukc, we are behind this shyte for the next 11 hours, ffs"
I almost saw red for that family.

I have seen and encountered so many asshat adults, whose self entitled bitching and whnging over SFA in flights over the years(the above just being the mist cold hearted ), that I am certain that these people are just miserable shytehawks in everyday life.

This story ugh, make my gut wrench. As if life isnt hard enough.
My son was non verbal for a long time. He used to make those repetitive grunts or humming. We had this guy infront of us who just kept looking back and giving dirty looks when we didnt respond he then started giving out stink to my son who was 3 at the time. When that didnt work he starting flinging abuse at us and demanding we were moved. He was moved instead but still turned around and gave us the middle finger. My son was upset by the situation and humming turned into a meltdown after the guy had screamed at him. Situation like this make me lose faith in humanity. Now my son is verbal and so much improved and I try to be understanding and helpful to anyone I see struggling.

caniask86

irishmoss wrote: »

Ne're a truer word was spoken!

In your case you know your own child well and how he behaves. The thing that got me though in this case was the mother complaining people were covering their ears and being rude. She admitted her child screamed for an hour and a half so I think she should have had some understanding of how others were effected on that flight. This was a serious meltdown, not a brief crying session.

I think if your look at her FB posts people were saying stuff to her too. Always more to a story.

LirW

caniask86 wrote: »

This story ugh, make my gut wrench. As if life isnt hard enough.
My son was non verbal for a long time. He used to make those repetitive grunts or humming. We had this guy infront of us who just kept looking back and giving dirty looks when we didnt respond he then started giving out stink to my son who was 3 at the time. When that didnt work he starting flinging abuse at us and demanding we were moved. He was moved instead but still turned around and gave us the middle finger. My son was upset by the situation and humming turned into a meltdown after the guy had screamed at him. Situation like this make me lose faith in humanity. Now my son is verbal and so much improved and I try to be understanding and helpful to anyone I see struggling.

I mean it's a flight. A flight. you're spending a few hours of your life on a plane with random people and you'll forget them all again. A flight isn't a spa treatment. It amazed me that people put so much effort and energy into being upset. Why do people care so much about what others are doing?
That guy just sounds like a miserable twit waffle. If you have the need to give a 3 year old the finger then there's something seriously wrong with you.

caniask86

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Okay but are you not advising others on what to say?

I feel like Lexie you are determined to argue for the sake of arguing.

kittensmittens

caniask86 wrote: »

This story ugh, make my gut wrench. As if life isnt hard enough.
My son was non verbal for a long time. He used to make those repetitive grunts or humming. We had this guy infront of us who just kept looking back and giving dirty looks when we didnt respond he then started giving out stink to my son who was 3 at the time. When that didnt work he starting flinging abuse at us and demanding we were moved. He was moved instead but still turned around and gave us the middle finger. My son was upset by the situation and humming turned into a meltdown after the guy had screamed at him. Situation like this make me lose faith in humanity. Now my son is verbal and so much improved and I try to be understanding and helpful to anyone I see struggling.

I wouldn't give a second thought to people like him, life has a funny way of coming back to bite people like him in the backside.
Lot's of nasty miserable gits in the world, with not an ounce if empathy. Christ, years ago I had a right bint call the air hostess over after we sat behind her(LITERALLY upon boarding with our then two year old) and say very loudly "If there are any available seats, I'd like to swap as this child behind might be an annoyance during the flight".....(she slept practically the way)
She clearly had an issue with children, and that is her issue. Not mine. She can move wherever the fukc she likes. Further away from me the better

jackofalltrades

caniask86 wrote: »

:eek: Really ban Autistic children from first class?

Can every please stop trying to say Autistic children should stay at home.

No, it was a statement of fact not a suggestion.
In response to suggestions that you can avoid certain groups by travelling in certain classes.

keith_sixteen

jackofalltrades wrote: »

That and first class cabins are a rarity on short haul travel or are too expensive for most.

Are people really trying to compare crying to loud screaming/seat kicking over a prolonged period of time.

Sorry, but a short haul flight cannot be considered a prolonged period of time. It's a two hour flight to Santa bleedin' jaysis where-ever...kids will be crying. Adults will be acting up too.

I work in the aviation industry. The biggest cause of non-technical disruption on a flight are always adults. A flight has never had to turn around or make an unscheduled stop because some precious snowflake thinks they should have the cabin to themselves.

anewme

keith_sixteen wrote: »

Sorry, but a short haul flight cannot be considered a prolonged period of time. It's a two hour flight to Santa bleedin' jaysis where-ever...kids will be crying. Adults will be acting up too.

I work in the aviation industry. The biggest cause of non-technical disruption on a flight are always adults. A flight has never had to turn around or make an unscheduled stop because some precious snowflake thinks they should have the cabin to themselves.

No one wants the cabin to themselves.

The mother has said that the child was kicking, screaming, hair pulling, banging her head for an hour and 45 minutes. She admitted herself that it was so loud that people covered their ears.

People are not "snowflakes" for being upset in this instance.

Being rude to the family is not helpful and achieves nothing, but don't try to downplay it. It must have been very distressing for all concerned INCLUDING other passengers.

Winterlong

If Parents stayed at home with their kids and never flew the prices of flights would sky rocket to 80s levels and the choice of airlines and destinations would diminish.
We need the kids and their parents on planes to help keep the prices down.

Zubeneschamali

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

I have always believed that's kids who can't behave themselves shouldn't fly.

That does seem to be a common opinion here.

But neither I nor the airlines care about that common opinion.

iamwhoiam

The point here I think is being lost . The mother in the OP post wanted consideration for her sons kicking off . Fine , but then she wasn't giving others consideration that they also have a right to be stressed or upset . It has to work both ways , yes autistic kids are unpredictable and can shout and scream and we need to try to be patient and understanding . But their carers also need to understand that screaming upsets some people
I for one cannot handle high pitched screaming , be it a toddler in tge playground or whatever . It hurts my ears and actually stresses me . ( Equally a very high soprano opera singer stresses me )
So yes I would have to cover my ears and get stressed at an hour and 45 minutes of kicking off on a plane

My point is that if the mum asks for tolerance for her son then she must afford the same tolerance to the other stressed passengers as she does not know why they are travelling or what stresses or indeed illnesses they also might have

The child cannot help screaming and I cannot help being stressed over it . In my opinion its that simple

irishmoss

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

That does seem to be a common opinion here.

But neither I nor the airlines care about that common opinion.

Well we know that, you've mentioned it a few times. Anything else to contribute?

keith_sixteen

anewme wrote: »

No one wants the cabin to themselves.

The mother has said that the child was kicking, screaming, hair pulling, banging her head for an hour and 45 minutes. She admitted herself that it was so loud that people covered their ears.

People are not "snowflakes" for being upset in this instance.

Being rude to the family is not helpful and achieves nothing, but don't try to downplay it. It must have been very distressing for all concerned INCLUDING other passengers.

What's this thread about then?

Is it about the attention seeking episode in the OP? All the usual outrage mob on here sound like they wish they could have been on that flight.

Or, is it about kids on flights in general? Cos if so, again - kids have every much a right to be on a flight regardless what some entitled pricks (such as the lady in the OP) think.

People insisting that this is about the right to "be" on a flight without reference to behaviour are just avoiding the entire question. In fairness, thread should have been called 'uncontrolled kids on flights' maybe

People whataboutery drunk adults- off with ye to the 'drunk adults on flights threads

Zubeneschamali

Deleted User wrote: »

People insisting that this is about the right to "be" on a flight without reference to behaviour are just avoiding the entire question

There is no question except in your head. Children, even children who melt down, are allowed on flights. If that is a problem, it is your problem.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

There is no question except in your head. Children, even children who melt down, are allowed on flights. If that is a problem, it is your problem.

I think there lies the problem.

Your kids behaviour is in fact your problem, not everyone else's

irelandrover

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

There is no question except in your head. Children, even children who melt down, are allowed on flights. If that is a problem, it is your problem.

There is no right to be on a flight.

If a child is melting down so that they cannot be restrained in their seat for take-off can be removed. I've seen that happen. The airline were very apologetic but they couldnt take off while the child wouldnt sit down.

So if the meltdown of the child compomises the safety on the flight they are not allowed on the flight. The exact same way that an adult who does the same is not allowed on the flight.

keith_sixteen

Deleted User wrote: »

People whataboutery drunk adults- off with ye to the 'drunk adults on flights threads

It would be a much bigger thread for sure:

- Drunken fools
- People not bothering to turn up to the gate - wait for their bag to be offloaded - flight delayed
- People trying to smoke on flights
- People sitting in the wrong seats
- People dragging their oversized luggage in and ramming into the overhead bin

Crying kids has never been an issue for me.

iamwhoiam

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

There is no question except in your head. Children, even children who melt down, are allowed on flights. If that is a problem, it is your problem.

yes they are , and others have a right not to like it or get stressed by it . I would really hope I would find it in my heart to be tolerant and accepting of a child who is having a meltdown . But to deny that it would stress me is nonsense in my opinion as everyone has different stress inducers . I would have to leave a room with a screaming toddler in normal life but on a plane I cant so would be stressed and upset .I hope I would just put in ear plugs and try to avoid being an additional stress on the parents. But as I said it works both ways and the fact others find it stressful must also be acknowledged .
The plane is not full of angels it is full of humans with their own upsets , illnesses, stresses .