Dublin V Mayo .. opinions on the final

Are Am Eye

With all our nutritionists and statisticians we can produce these statistics. And facts.

We have ten times the amount of facts in Dublin than Mayo.

Shurimgreat

DoctaDee wrote: »

Ah they're reliable, just mightn't be palatable for some .. here ya go

Again, they include hurling and football. You presented it as if Galway and Tipperary were two of the biggest spenders on the football side of things when clearly they are not.

Even the Mayo figure includes hurling spend.

Out on their own for 2016 were Mayo, who had a carry-over from 2015 of around €150,000 accounted for in their 2016 figures and also had Nicky Rackard Cup and All-Ireland U-21 B hurling finals to cater for.

So your chart is pointless.

It also doesn't include other factors such as population and also the number of professional or semi professional coaches teaching young kids, which would not be considered part of the inter-county spend.

MayoAreMagic

DoctaDee wrote: »

Pole position ?

Mayo played 2 more games than Dublin last year though. In fact that indicates that Dublin are spending more per game than Mayo, and everyone else. Considering they don't have hotel or travel costs, you would wonder how they are managing that.

Bonniedog

DoctaDee wrote: »

Ah they're reliable, just mightn't be palatable for some .. here ya go

Another interesting snippet from that article:



Gate receipts ...... accounted for 50pc of the GAA's €60m annual turnover.


I would confidently wager that Dublin's % contribution to that 30,000,000 is significantly greater than the 6.5% we receive from central funding.

DoctaDee

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Again, they include hurling and football. You presented it as if Galway and Tipperary were two of the biggest spenders on the football side of things when clearly they are not.

Even the Mayo figure includes hurling spend.



So your chart is pointless.

It also doesn't include other factors such as population and also the number of professional or semi professional coaches teaching young kids.

I didn't present anything - Inter County Spending it says it's not my chart and if that's the sum total that you've garnered from it then my work here is done ..

Bonniedog

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Mayo played 2 more games than Dublin last year though. In fact that indicates that Dublin are spending more per game than Mayo, and everyone else. Considering they don't have hotel or travel costs, you would wonder how they are managing that.

Dublin had a senior hurling team in the top tier, and under 21s and minor hurlers who won Leinster and advanced to the final stages of the championship.

How much did Mayo spend on its hurlers?

danganabu

Tom Petty wrote a song about this thread one time I believe.........

Shurimgreat

DoctaDee wrote: »

I didn't present anything - Inter County Spending it says it's not my chart and if that's the sum total that you've garnered from it then my work here is done ..

We are having a discussion about Mayo v Dublin in terms of football resources, etc and you produced a chart that includes hurling spend.

As Mayomaffia said, Mayo have to cover costs of travel to and from games including games and replays in Croke Park, whereas Dublin don't. That's a whole squad as well as officials and back room. Mayo is also a big county so more mileage expenses. Also food costs after training which Dublin players do not.

You can take Galway, Cork and Tipp out of that chart, because most of their spend is on hurling. It leaves Dublin and Mayo up there, but again Mayo would have a lot of costs Dublin simply don't.

As for Dublin receiving 6.5% from the GAA, there are 33/34 counties in the championship so they should only be receiving 3%.

The whole area of funding needs to be looked at soon. The imbalance contributes to the imbalance on the field.

Fattes

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Hard to know how reliable those charts are.

Like I said, spending is one factor. Population pick, ability to do regular collective training in the same county (players not away in college, work, etc), number of senior teams, and so on. Population pick would be the biggest factor for me. If you have ten times the population, you are going to have far more to choose from.

Population, great Jo Cannong lives in Dublin can we pick him for the Hurlers. There was a few seasons were Roscommon Trained in Dublin as most of their panel lived here. Approx 25% of Dublins population are not Native Dubs. I could probably name 30-40 inter county players that live in Dublin and represent Mayo, Waterford, Kilkenny , Tyrone, Kerry and many more

Also if population is such a factor, how can Kilkenny dominate hurling for so long with a small population? Antrim, Cork, Down, Kildare, Derry limerick, Meath and Tyrone make up the top 10 populated counties in the island how is their All ireland count? Mayo and Kerry are the 15th and 17th most populated counties why are they succesfull??

As for the final? Both teams are strong and hungry, both have been here before and both are very aware of each other.

Tactically Rochfird has the hardest job, it's hard to learn a lot from most of Dublins games so far and then there is which 15 will start? Could he end up with Connolly on the bench, it's a realistic possibility.

Gavin will have a good idea of what Mayo Team and how they will line up offensively.

Here is hoping its a good entertaining team and after 70 minutes the Dubs win 😂😂😂😂

Honestly it could go either way

DoctaDee

Shurimgreat wrote: »

We are having a discussion about Mayo v Dublin in terms of football resources, etc and you produced a chart that includes hurling spend.

As Mayomaffia said, Mayo have to cover costs of travel to and from games including games and replays in Croke Park, whereas Dublin don't. That's a whole squad as well as officials and back room. Mayo is also a big county so more mileage expenses. Also food costs after training which Dublin players do not.

You can take Galway, Cork and Tipp out of that chart, because most of their spend is on hurling. It leaves Dublin and Mayo up there, but again Mayo would have a lot of costs Dublin simply don't.

As for Dublin receiving 6.5% from the GAA, there are 33/34 counties in the championship so they should only be receiving 3%.

The whole area of funding needs to be looked at soon. The imbalance contributes to the imbalance on the field.

I'm pointing out to you that Mayo have access to the very same financial resources as Dublin (but that doesn't make good reading does it ?)

Mayo have to cover costs of travel to and from games including games and replays in Croke Park, whereas Dublin don't.

No they don't, Central Council reimbursed Mayo €476,988 in team expenses last year - once again the highest figure for any county .. oh that's football and hurling . btw

Fattes

DoctaDee wrote: »

I'm pointing out to you that Mayo have access to the very same financial resources as Dublin (but that doesn't make good reading does it ?)
No they don't, Central Council reimbursed Mayo €476,988 in team expenses last year - once again the highest figure for any county .. oh that's football and hurling . btw

Dublin stay in the Gibson as part of a sponsorship arrangement , and transport is sponsored bye Bus Eireann (I think)

Kerry coaches sponsor Kerries transport, well their owner is on the seniour panel!

Most of the Big 4 teams have transport and accommodation covered with no cost

blanch152

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I'd like to know that too. And does the Galway and Tipperary figures include football and hurling?

Yes they are, they refer to spending on inter-county teams. The Mayo one stands out miles, as the four teams below them - Galway, Tipperary, Cork and Dublin - are dual counties.

If Mayo spent a bit more money on under-age coaching and a lot less money on warm-weather training for the senior footballers, they might have a better long-term chance of a win.

Shurimgreat

DoctaDee wrote: »

I'm pointing out to you that Mayo have access to the very same financial resources as Dublin (but that doesn't make good reading does it ?)



No they don't, Central Council reimbursed Mayo €476,988 in team expenses last year - once again the highest figure for any county .. oh that's football and hurling . btw

And equally it doesn't make for good reading for you that I pointed out spending on inter county team is one factor in resources. Population is another. You must agree that having ten times the population gives you a much greater pick of players and a much greater pick of good players. And this is borne out in the Dublin squad who seem to have an endless supply of talented players coming through.

blanch152

Shurimgreat wrote: »

We are having a discussion about Mayo v Dublin in terms of football resources, etc and you produced a chart that includes hurling spend.

As Mayomaffia said, Mayo have to cover costs of travel to and from games including games and replays in Croke Park, whereas Dublin don't. That's a whole squad as well as officials and back room. Mayo is also a big county so more mileage expenses. Also food costs after training which Dublin players do not.

You can take Galway, Cork and Tipp out of that chart, because most of their spend is on hurling. It leaves Dublin and Mayo up there, but again Mayo would have a lot of costs Dublin simply don't.

As for Dublin receiving 6.5% from the GAA, there are 33/34 counties in the championship so they should only be receiving 3%.

The whole area of funding needs to be looked at soon. The imbalance contributes to the imbalance on the field.

I have had this discussion before with fans who are only interested in inter-county football. If that is all they know and think about, the financing looks unfair.

However, there is a lot more to the GAA out there. Dublin have hurling, camogie and women's football inter-county commitments, their teams at minor and U-21 are successful etc. but that isn't where the vast majority of money goes. The vast majority of money that Dublin gets is spent on juveniles, 99.9% of whom will never get near pulling on an inter-county jersey in competition.

Fattes

Shurimgreat wrote: »

And equally it doesn't make for good reading for you that I pointed out spending on inter county team is one factor in resources. Population is another. You must agree that having ten times the population gives you a much greater pick of players and a much greater pick of good players. And this is borne out in the Dublin squad who seem to have an endless supply of talented players coming through.

You have to be aware that 25% of Dublin population are not eligible to be selected as they are not Dubs.

That Kerry and Mayo are 15th and 17th in the population Table and are always there or there about a since the 90's which debunks your population theory somewhat

Bunny Colvin

I've said this before. Dublin play the majority of their games in Dublin. It isn't a huge issue anymore as the likes of Mayo are used to Croke Park. But, the one thing that gets continuously overlooked is Hill 16. Cillian O'Connor has to kick into a goal that is full of Dublin supporters trying to put him off. That's an advantage imo, as is the fact that it's easy for them to drum up noise. Give us the Davin, I'd gladly sit in there with the Mayo support and we can properly greet Dean Rock when he's taking a free. Will never happen though.

danganabu

blanch152 wrote: »

The vast majority of money that Dublin gets is spent on juveniles, 99.9% of whom will never get near pulling on an inter-county jersey in competition.

Maybe if we split Dublin into say 20, then a higher % would get to wear an inter county jersey.......you might be on to something here blanch

MayoAreMagic

Bonniedog wrote: »

Dublin had a senior hurling team in the top tier, and under 21s and minor hurlers who won Leinster and advanced to the final stages of the championship.

How much did Mayo spend on its hurlers?

Well they won the Nicky Rackard so Id imagine a considerable enough amount. They still have to train, travel and stay before games, regardless of the quality they are producing and they had 5 games in all... Dublin hurlers only played 3 as I recall. Their u-21 hurlers got to the final of the B championship also, losing to meath, so a reasonable spend required for hurling in the county for 2016.

Mayo also enter a team in the Junior all ireland football championship, while Dublin don't... They reached the final of that in 2016 too...

Martina1991

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

Cillian O'Connor has to kick into a goal that is full of Dublin supporters trying to put him off. That's an advantage imo, as is the fact that it's easy for them to drum up noise.

I've heard Cillian has a recording of roars and boos from hill 16 that he listens to before games. I've seen him walking the pitch before games with headphones on. He's well used to it at this stage.

Bunny Colvin

Martina1991 wrote: »

I've heard Cillian has a recording of roars and boos from hill 16 that he listens to before games. I've seen him walking the pitch before games with headphones on. He's well used to it at this stage.

Jason Doherty might not have a pair of headphones! Point is, it isn't nearly the same for Dean Rock.

Martina1991

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

Jason Doherty might not have a pair of headphones! Point is, it isn't nearly the same for Dean Rock.

You're right, and it is the final, it just depends how both lads perform under pressure.

MayoAreMagic

Martina1991 wrote: »

I've heard Cillian has a recording of roars and boos from hill 16 that he listens to before games. I've seen him walking the pitch before games with headphones on. He's well used to it at this stage.

Im sure boxers are used to getting punched in the head too. It doesn't mean the hits don't have an effect though...

In fairness, once you get to semi finals and finals, really and truly efforts should be made to even out the sections, particularly the ones behind the goals, as much as possible. It is just common sense and the players deserve the same chance as each other at that stage of the competition.

Bonniedog

Martina1991 wrote: »

I've heard Cillian has a recording of roars and boos from hill 16 that he listens to before games. I've seen him walking the pitch before games with headphones on. He's well used to it at this stage.

Mayo supporters don't booh of course!

Nor do their backs slam into Rock every time he takes a free. They are the only ones who do that now actually. I wonder will such sporting tactics be deployed in the final, again?


Shurimgreat, the much greater spend by Dublin on teams outside of senior football means that Mayo's spend on the senior team is even more disproportionate, Indeed the article points that out. Over 60%. there is no way that such a high % of Dublin's budget goes to the senior footballers.

corny

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Hard to know how reliable those charts are.

Like I said, spending is one factor. Population pick, ability to do regular collective training in the same county (players not away in college, work, etc), number of senior teams, and so on. Population pick would be the biggest factor for me. If you have ten times the population, you are going to have far more to choose from.

MayoAreMagic

Bonniedog wrote: »

Another interesting snippet from that article:



Gate receipts ...... accounted for 50pc of the GAA's €60m annual turnover.


I would confidently wager that Dublin's % contribution to that 30,000,000 is significantly greater than the 6.5% we receive from central funding.

Where are you getting the 6.5% figure?

PARlance

We should knock 3-5 days out of this.

km79

I think Dublin should be split into 4

MayoAreMagic

Bonniedog wrote: »

Mayo supporters don't booh of course!

Nor do their backs slam into Rock every time he takes a free. They are the only ones who do that now actually. I wonder will such sporting tactics be deployed in the final, again?

Kind of a nonsense point to be honest. Nobody said they don't boo. Nobody said the players wont get stuck into rock, like Dublin players will get stuck into COC and AOS and whoever else.

The point is that a partisan crowd, particularly behind a goal, is unfair. No more, no less.

km79

PARlance

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Kind of a nonsense point to be honest. Nobody said they don't boo. Nobody said the players wont get stuck into rock, like Dublin players will get stuck into COC and AOS and whoever else.

The point is that a partisan crowd, particularly behind a goal, is unfair. No more, no less.

It's up to us to get in there with them so. I'm sure it's a nice boost to see a decent crowd amongst all the blue.

ProudDUB

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Kind of a nonsense point to be honest. Nobody said they don't boo. Nobody said the players wont get stuck into rock, like Dublin players will get stuck into COC and AOS and whoever else.

The point is that a partisan crowd, particularly behind a goal, is unfair. No more, no less.

You do realise that supporters from other counties have just as much access to Hill tickets as Dubs do, don't you? Nobody forces county boards to swap their allocation of terrace tickets for stand ones. If people don't like Dubs primarily being behind the Hill goal, then there is a very easy fix for that - take up your full county board allocation of terrace tickets, and/or go buy a Hill ticket at Supervalu & get your arses to the Hill. There is no big GAA conspiracy keeping you out.

MayoAreMagic

PARlance wrote: »

It's up to us to get in there with them so. I'm sure it's a nice boost to see a decent crowd amongst all the blue.

It is and generally we do that well. But my point isnt just about the next day out, it is just in general. In big games where there is a strong demand for tickets there should be 'all that blue', or 'all that red and green' or whatever, in the first place.

MayoAreMagic

ProudDUB wrote: »

You do realise that supporters from other counties have just as much access to Hill tickets as Dubs do, don't you? Nobody forces county boards to swap their allocation of terrace tickets for stand ones. If people don't like Dubs primarily being behind the Hill goal, then there is a very easy fix for that - take up your full county board allocation of terrace tickets, and/or go buy a Hill ticket at Supervalu & get your arses to the Hill. There is no big GAA conspiracy keeping you out.

I never said there was a big conspiracy at all. The reality is Dublin clubs have more club members and so will get more tickets. It is a side-effect of the system in place, and it is flawed. I accept that it is hard to control up to the final, but for a final, there should be a quota directed to each county - 50% of tickets for behind each goal. Surely that is completely reasonable?

km79

Vinny Murphy complaining about Rochford using the Connacht Telegraph to influence the unappointed ref is a thing of beauty
The irony ........the fact that like Kerry the Dubs are very very worried ........

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I never said there was a big conspiracy at all. The reality is Dublin clubs have more club members and so will get more tickets. It is a side-effect of the system in place, and it is flawed. I accept that it is hard to control up to the final, but for a final, there should be a quota directed to each county - 50% of tickets for behind each goal. Surely that is completely reasonable?

It is my understanding that the All-Ireland tickets get distributed equally between the competing counties.

donkey balls

ProudDUB wrote: »

Parnell Pass holder, almost the same thing. Hands down, the best 120 quid I spend every year !

Same as myself but we got to remember the barren days of the noughties getting beat out the door by Kerry &Tyrone,Every year when we lost the aul lad be saying that's it I'm finished with the PP.
And every year we would renew the passes.

ProudDUB

blanch152 wrote: »

It is my understanding that the All-Ireland tickets get distributed equally between the competing counties.

I didn't have the heart to tell him that most basic of facts. He's determined to play the poor mouth.

blanch152

ProudDUB wrote: »

I didn't have the heart to tell him that most basic of facts. He's determined to play the poor mouth.

He comes out with some gems all right.

donkey balls

The 2013 and 2016 final you could say there was an equal amount of Dublin and Mayo supporters on the Hill. Myself and the lads were surrounded by Mayo fans
I also heard a rumour at the time that the county boards from the counties not competing in the final,Were sending their tickets to the Mayo county board and not back to central council.

Bonniedog

There were definitely almost as many Mayo supporters on Hill in all those games. I was in Cusack corner for the drawn game and whole section apart from ourselves and a few other Dubs was Mayo. and a pleasant lot they were too.

One of reasons some non Dubs won't go to Hill is their own prejudices. I remember seeing a Kerry chap before the 2013 semi final practically begging someone to swap him for his Hill ticket.

You would think he was going to have to sleep in a doorway in the South Bronx :-)

Gael85

donkey balls wrote: »

The 2013 and 2016 final you could say there was an equal amount of Dublin and Mayo supporters on the Hill. Myself and the lads were surrounded by Mayo fans
I also heard a rumour at the time that the county boards from the counties not competing in the final,Were sending their tickets to the Mayo county board and not back to central council.

Kildare gave their allocation to Mayo last year.

glack

Ah seriously, the arguments over money always annoys me! Because the general discussion is on how much each county spends on their inter county teams (football/hurling/minor/u21). Mayos spending is the highest, but they have crazy amounts of travel to account for and I'm not talking just for matches but for training. The county itself is massive so some players living in Mayo have a decent hike to training and then there's the lads in Dublin. During the spring that means there has to be a separate mid week training for them in Dublin and all the costs involved in organising that. And during the summer months, they're travelling west at least twice a week. Then when we get to Croker, it's a cross country trip for the entire team. Last year was also unusual in that our hurlers were successful as were our u21s. So all the costs add up and are higher than Dublins with good reason.

In any case, this to me is not the relevant spending at all. That's just costs of running top teams. The relevant spending is on games development. I'd be really interested to see county by county spends on this. I'm talking about those involved in going into schools etc. The money spent here is what keeps the numbers up and keeps the conveyor belt going. This is where Dublins financial advantage comes into play and not in the day to day costs.

It's also worth noting that Mayo GAA have the expenses involved in redeveloping and maintaining McHale Park while the Dublin footballers use Croke Park. I'd imagine the costs discrepancy here is significant even though I'd imagine the Dublin county board have the upkeep of Parnell Park to mangage??? This again leaves less money for games development.

I've no issue with Dublin getting funding, but there needs to be some sort of balancing done on the differences in the levels given to each county. Keep Dublins as it is and increase the funding to the rest of us and we'll be happy!!

Fattes

blanch152 wrote: »

It is my understanding that the All-Ireland tickets get distributed equally between the competing counties.

Using PST year finals as an example approx, 40,000 - 50,000 tickets go to senior final counties, 10,000 approx to minor counties. The rest go to the other 28-30 counties in the country, overseas teams, campfire, ladies football etc break down for last year below

58,401, Provinces: 335, Overseas: 470, Central Council and former Presidents: 798, Camogie: 120, Ladies’ football: 150, Rounders and handball: 147, Sponsors: 935, Press: 254 (we want some of these), TV and radio: 74, Schools and educational bodies: 2,229, 3rd Level: 240, Croke Park residents: 250, Match officials and national referees’ panel: 103, Irish Sports Council and health bodies: 60, Match day / Vertigo / minor teams: 148, GAA staff and sub-committees: 718, Jubilee teams: 68, Mini-sevens: 244, Term tickets: 4,144,Season tickets: 1,884

Fattes

blanch152 wrote: »

It is my understanding that the All-Ireland tickets get distributed equally between the competing counties.

Using PST year finals as an example approx, 40,000 - 50,000 tickets go to senior final counties, 10,000 approx to minor counties. The rest go to the other 28-30 counties in the country, overseas teams, campfire, ladies football etc break down for last year below

58,401, Provinces: 335, Overseas: 470, Central Council and former Presidents: 798, Camogie: 120, Ladies’ football: 150, Rounders and handball: 147, Sponsors: 935, Press: 254 (we want some of these), TV and radio: 74, Schools and educational bodies: 2,229, 3rd Level: 240, Croke Park residents: 250, Match officials and national referees’ panel: 103, Irish Sports Council and health bodies: 60, Match day / Vertigo / minor teams: 148, GAA staff and sub-committees: 718, Jubilee teams: 68, Mini-sevens: 244, Term tickets: 4,144,Season tickets: 1,884

Stoner

km79 wrote:

I think Dublin should be split into 4

You'd get a second Mayo team then.

17togo

irishfeen wrote:

It's basically the whole country in support of Mayo v Dublin.

I dunno about that, I'm not a dub, living and working in Dublin however. I think I'm actually gonna shout for them and It's surprising how many non dubs I know that are hoping Dublin win. I think it's the whole 'mayo4sam' slogan that's spotted everywhere from the superbowl to the world hopscotch championships (a slight exaggeration, I know). That article that was written about the players supposedly ousting the last management didn't help either!

I'm surprised in myself because I normally shout wholeheartedly against Dublin, but just can't seem to warm to Mayo.

No offence mayo people......

happyoutscan

17togo wrote: »

I dunno about that, I'm not a dub, living and working in Dublin however. I think I'm actually gonna shout for them and It's surprising how many non dubs I know that are hoping Dublin win. I think it's the whole 'mayo4sam' slogan that's spotted everywhere from the superbowl to the world hopscotch championships (a slight exaggeration, I know). That article that was written about the players supposedly ousting the last management didn't help either!

I'm surprised in myself because I normally shout wholeheartedly against Dublin, but just can't seem to warm to Mayo.

No offence mayo people......

Shout for who you want, why should we care? Each to their own.

Bonniedog

Mayo are generally the team people want to see win. Not so much for anti dub reasons - which we Dubs like to exaggerate! - but because they've not won it in so long and keep coming back.

Whole thing about the management heave and worse the leaks about trying to get players dropped has put some people off. I actually thought that would scuttle their chances this year but they seem to have mended their bridges.

Strangely enough I've found that people from counties that are not really competitive tend to like Dublin more than the average bear. I know a good few Fermanagh people who support Dubs as second team but that's possibly because of certain arrogant neighbours who like to rub their noses in it!

Have relations in Kilkenny and they and a good few of their friends support Dublin.

I suppose they recognise excellence :-)

17togo

happyoutscan wrote:

Shout for who you want, why should we care? Each to their own.

Thanks for the reassurance!

kupus

17togo wrote: »

I dunno about that, I'm not a dub, living and working in Dublin however. I think I'm actually gonna shout for them and It's surprising how many non dubs I know that are hoping Dublin win. I think it's the whole 'mayo4sam' slogan that's spotted everywhere from the superbowl to the world hopscotch championships (a slight exaggeration, I know). That article that was written about the players supposedly ousting the last management didn't help either!

I'm surprised in myself because I normally shout wholeheartedly against Dublin, but just can't seem to warm to Mayo.

No offence mayo people......

Couldnt care less. When we are going for the 4 in row you'll hate us even more.