Social housing offers for all ireland

handlemaster

Is it not time that offers of housing include the whole republic and not just done county by county . If someone is homeless surely the location of the property should not be an issue to turn down a home. People speak about been close to family and friends who dont house them as if that is reason enough to turn housing down. Another is schools same educational system in all counties should not be an issue to turn down a property.

gizmo81

handlemaster wrote: »

Is it not time that offers of housing include the whole republic and not just done county by county . If someone is homeless surely the location of the property should not be an issue to turn down a home. People speak about been close to family and friends who dont house them as if that is reason enough to turn housing down. Another is schools same educational system in all counties should not be an issue to turn down a property.

If you watch any of the UK documentaries on this topic two things spring to mind:

People are being separated from family and friends, leading to isolation. Someone independent living with mental illness moved 6 hours from their family removing all their support. Or a single mother with a toddler.

Class warfare in city spaces.

Gatling

People only want to live in one particular area or estate ,
Even those living in hotels and b&b are still turning down offers of social housing , something has to be done 100,000 people can't expect to live in a handful of areas or estates

handlemaster

Someone with registered mental health issues yes. Someone who has a kid no. Your kid your decision. . Cant rent privately then take the free home where ever that maybe

Sleeper12

Some homeless people are fragile or have special needs. It's not suitable for some people to live outside their support network. For example someone with autism most likely suffers from anxiety. They may not be able to live too far from their family.

I don't think people should be able to pick & choose especially with the amount on the social housing. Having said that I do think that they should be able to hope for a home near their family and friends. By near I think within 5 miles for Dublin. Outside of Dublin within their own county.

There's plenty that should be taken into account. Ideally kids should not have to move schools etc

Sleeper12

Gatling wrote:

People only want to live in one particular area or estate , Even those living in hotels and b&b are still turning down offers of social housing , something has to be done 100,000 people can't expect to live in a handful of areas or estates

Totally agree with you but I would change "even those living in hotels" to "even some of those living in hotels"
Most haven't been offered anywhere yet

handlemaster

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Some homeless people are fragile or have special needs. It's not suitable for some people to live outside their support network. For example someone with autism most likely suffers from anxiety. They may not be able to live too far from their family.

I don't think people should be able to pick & choose especially with the amount on the social housing. Having said that I do think that they should be able to hope for a home near their family and friends. By near I think within 5 miles for Dublin. Outside of Dublin within their own county.

There's plenty that should be taken into account. Ideally kids should not have to move schools etc

Mental health is a point to be located near to family and friends if possible. Kids going to a particular school is BS. Workers move all the time with their families I never heard of a government support for workers kids so why should anyone else get special treatment

yabadabado

If you can afford to buy your own home then its up to you to pick the area.People turning down homes for no other reason than they want to be near their mam/dad/other need to be told to cop the **** on.
Obviously it's a totally different situation if a person has health/mental health issues but people not willing to move 30 minute drive from the area they grow up is beyond a joke.

ash23

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Having said that I do think that they should be able to hope for a home near their family and friends. By near I think within 5 miles for Dublin. Outside of Dublin within their own county.

There's plenty that should be taken into account. Ideally kids should not have to move schools etc

The county stipulation makes no sense. I can live where I am and be five minutes from another county. I could drive two hours and still be in the same county.

There would need to be a more defined radius for people to choose from.
I definitely think the current system of being limited to your own locality is a bit silly.

NIMAN

yabadabado wrote: »

Obviously it's a totally different situation if a person has health/mental health issues.

But these people are wise to all the tricks.

What happens if you introduce exceptions for those with mental health issues? Everyone develops mental health issues.

Most know how to play the game.

yabadabado

Yeah within the same county is a stupid idea some massive counties .5 miles in Dublin is also way too narrow.
If you need social housing you shouldn't be calling the shots when housing is on offer,the regs need to be changed and updated so people aren't constantly turning down housing waiting for their dream area/home.

yabadabado

NIMAN wrote: »

But these people are wise to all the tricks.

What happens if you introduce exceptions for those with mental health issues? Everyone develops mental health issues.

Most know how to play the game.

There are dozens of medical assessors working for Social Welfare nationwide.Get them into the doctor and prove their status.Its done for numerous payments could be done for this.

pilly

handlemaster wrote:

Is it not time that offers of housing include the whole republic and not just done county by county . If someone is homeless surely the location of the property should not be an issue to turn down a home. People speak about been close to family and friends who dont house them as if that is reason enough to turn housing down. Another is schools same educational system in all counties should not be an issue to turn down a property.

This idea doesn't make sense because if you do that every waiting list in the country has 100k people on it, far too much administration.

Also not everyone on a housing list is unemployed believe it or not so are they supposed to jack in their jobs.

With a ridiculous system like you suggest you could have someone from Dublin shipped down to Tipperary and someone from Tipperary sent up to Dublin. Where's the sense in that?

Lumen

pilly wrote: »

This idea doesn't make sense because if you do that every waiting list in the country has 100k people on it, far too much administration.

Also not everyone on a housing list is unemployed believe it or not so are they supposed to jack in their jobs.

With a ridiculous system like you suggest you could have someone from Dublin shipped down to Tipperary and someone from Tipperary sent up to Dublin. Where's the sense in that?

One waiting list.

Sleeper12

NIMAN wrote: »

But these people are wise to all the tricks.

What happens if you introduce exceptions for those with mental health issues? Everyone develops mental health issues.

Most know how to play the game.

If you play by those rules things like this happen more often https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0831/901330-homeless-woman/

Because some will abuse the system can't mean we ignore mental issues

Gatling

Sleeper12 wrote: »

If you play by those rules things like this happen more often https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0831/901330-homeless-woman/

Because some will abuse the system can't mean we ignore mental issues

That's a friend of mines sister ,

But I think your wrong using the mental health /autism as an excuse why people can't live out side of a particular area ,

All that is required is accessible schools and doctors surgeries and hospitals or clinics which all can be found in every county ,
A forever home is better for people suffering aniexty than worrying about becoming homeless because they can't afford rents ,

This is why no real meaning discussion or changes could happen here because people are quick to use every excuse in the book not to push through real needed changes

Sleeper12

Gatling wrote:

But I think your wrong using the mental health /autism as an excuse why people can't live out side of a particular area ,

80 percent of autistic people are on long term unemployment. Many more are on permanent disability. Many can't leave their own homes from anxiety.

Gatling wrote:

This is why no real meaning discussion or changes could happen here because people are quick to use every excuse in the book not to push through real needed changes

While it's nice to discuss these things this thread is sort of pointless. Even if we all agreed that no one can refuse an offer of a home it makes no difference. The real issue is still that we have a shortage of property. Private, social, affordable, rental etc. We can argue all we want about who's fault that is or if the problem was ignored for the last 5 years or not but the bottom line is a shortage. I genuinely feel for the homeless but I also feel for ordinary people renting. You want to see some of the cramped conditions. I changed carbon brushes in a shower in one property and they lasted 3 months. They should last years. Turns out there's 15 people sharing a 2 bedroom flat in an old Georgian building. These are paying rent. People wouldn't live like that if they had a choice. The real issue isn't turning down offers or even the ones scamming. The issue is the lack of property

Gatling

Sleeper12 wrote: »

80 percent of autistic people are on long term unemployment. Many more are on permanent disability. Many can't leave their own homes from anxiety.

Have you actual figures for the above .

But as you already said the main issue is massive stock shortages across the board and till that is sorted discussion isn't doing anyone any good

LirW

handlemaster wrote: »

Someone with registered mental health issues yes. Someone who has a kid no. Your kid your decision. . Cant rent privately then take the free home where ever that maybe

In fairness though, when you have a single mother (it can have a million reasons why she's now alone) of 2 with work in Dublin will put her in a predicament when she gets a house offered in the backsticks of Cavan.
It just takes a low paid job like being a hairdresser or a care assistant for example, if she doesn't have a car and struggling with money already she most likely will have to give her job up because she can't afford a commute and the childcare for it.

quadrifoglio verde

gizmo81 wrote: »

If you watch any of the UK documentaries on this topic two things spring to mind:

People are being separated from family and friends, leading to isolation. Someone independent living with mental illness moved 6 hours from their family removing all their support. Or a single mother with a toddler.

Class warfare in city spaces.

Hmm have a secure home in Leitrim or some cardboard and a doorway in Dublin
I know which one I'd choose and it ain't Dublin

Want to be housed in Dublin? Prove why it's necessary. Greater priority should be given to low waged workers working in Dublin than the single mother of three because she wants to be near her parents.

As for the person with mental illness being forced to live in isolation. What about the person in rural Ireland, with mental illness being forced to live in isolation? No one makes a big song and dance to bring them to the city's so they're near supports and no longer in isolation!
Why not?

handlemaster

LirW wrote: »

In fairness though, when you have a single mother (it can have a million reasons why she's now alone) of 2 with work in Dublin will put her in a predicament when she gets a house offered in the backsticks of Cavan.
It just takes a low paid job like being a hairdresser or a care assistant for example, if she doesn't have a car and struggling with money already she most likely will have to give her job up because she can't afford a commute and the childcare for it.

If your looking for the tax payer to pay for you , you shouldnt call the shots. Heres a free home do you want it ? No! go to the back of the list

handlemaster

pilly wrote: »

This idea doesn't make sense because if you do that every waiting list in the country has 100k people on it, far too much administration.

Also not everyone on a housing list is unemployed believe it or not so are they supposed to jack in their jobs.

With a ridiculous system like you suggest you could have someone from Dublin shipped down to Tipperary and someone from Tipperary sent up to Dublin. Where's the sense in that?

the people waiting will not change straight away. the numbers where they can go would be more flexible. the fact I want to live in free housing in Dalkey shouldnt stop me taking a house in cavan. we all have unaffordable dreams. When you live your life on state benefits you shouldn't be picky, this would encourage more to get out to improve their lot

hawkwind23

Ill offer a solution....
With all our taxes maybe we could build more social housing?

gizmo81

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Hmm have a secure home in Leitrim or some cardboard and a doorway in Dublin
I know which one I'd choose and it ain't Dublin

Want to be housed in Dublin? Prove why it's necessary. Greater priority should be given to low waged workers working in Dublin than the single mother of three because she wants to be near her parents.

As for the person with mental illness being forced to live in isolation. What about the person in rural Ireland, with mental illness being forced to live in isolation? No one makes a big song and dance to bring them to the city's so they're near supports and no longer in isolation!
Why not?

So the single mother of three who works 25 hours a week while kids are in school, you want her to give up her job, family, friends, the kids move school, leave family and friends and move over 2.5 hours away?

The person with mental illness in Ireland is being taken out of the area they know and away from their supports for gentrification!

But that's not what you're really advocating for, you want anyone not working moved out of Dublin.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

Why should Joe Worker have to live in Mullingar or Portlaoise to spend half his life commuting to Dublin because he can't afford to rent or buy in the capital, while the career single Ma with 3 kids by 3 different men gets to pick an area she'd like to live in which happens to be some of the most prime real estate on the island? I've always thought that was ludicrous.

handlemaster

gizmo81 wrote: »

So the single mother of three who works 25 hours a week while kids are in school, you want her to give up her job, family, friends, the kids move school, leave family and friends and move over 2.5 hours away?

The person with mental illness in Ireland is being taken out of the area they know and away from their supports for gentrification!

But that's not what you're really advocating for, you want anyone not working moved out of Dublin.

Gentrification ... you mean investment in an area. If we shouldnt renovate because some would not afford to leave their after how is this bad ? the country would still have donkeys and carts and one room houses

pilly

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:

Why should Joe Worker have to live in Mullingar or Portlaoise to spend half his life commuting to Dublin because he can't afford to rent or buy in the capital, while the career single Ma with 3 kids by 3 different men gets to pick an area she'd like to live in which happens to be some of the most prime real estate on the island? I've always thought that was ludicrous.

Because Joe Worker won't go live in a council estate in Ballymun now would he?

Victor

handlemaster wrote: »

If someone is homeless surely the location of the property should not be an issue to turn down a home.

Not everyone who is homeless is unemployed.

Would you send someone working in Cork to live in Mayo? Note that the firs train from Mayo arrives in Cork at 12:35 and they'll have to be in the 15:20 train back. They will then spend 8 hours in Mayo and have to be up for the 07:15 train the next morning.

yabadabado wrote: »

people not willing to move 30 minute drive from the area they grow up is beyond a joke.

I'm guessing here, but people who are homeless probably have a much lower car ownership than the general population.

handlemaster

Victor wrote: »

Not everyone who is homeless is unemployed.

Would you send someone working in Cork to live in Mayo? Note that the firs train from Mayo arrives in Cork at 12:35 and they'll have to be in the 15:20 train back. They will then spend 8 hours in Mayo and have to be up for the 07:15 train the next morning.

if you cant afford a home. you take what your given. obviously you will have stories from everyone why they cant move. if the job doesnt pay enought then move. there are jobs in mayo to.

jamesthepeach

You put all the lists together right now in order of when people went on it.
You put all of the available houses in the country at the moment into a website and categorize them.
You give everyone on the housing list a priority number and a categoryike 3 bed, 2 bed etc.
You give them one week to browse the houses available their category and pick say 10 in order of preference and then you make offers , cao style.
Do this every month.
If you don't get the house of your choice you go again next month. You get a choice, but if you get too fussy you get nothing. It yourself to blame.

NIMAN

You have to be very careful not to be seen to be hitting those on lists hard, or being discriminatory towards them. The lefties will be up in arms.

It is of course perfectly fine to have rules for those struggling to commute every day, pay bills, mortgage, taxes etc.