Social housing offers for all ireland

handlemaster

riclad wrote: »

I think if you are offered a house and turn it down you,ll be moved from the top of the list ,or lose a few points.
People have x no of points depending of health status, how long you are on the list,no of kids,etc
the last time i saw the form you can pick out 4 area,s egb city centre, swords,finglas etc
The main problem we have is lack of of supply ,there are not 1000,s of empty council houses in rural area,s waiting to be accupied .
Drive around any council estate or apartment block,
at least 3 per cent of units are boarded up.
i know 2 one bedroom flats empty for 2 years .
in dublin 2 .
The council renovates a flat when someone moves out.
i think they replace kitchen units etc
The government needs to set a target ,we will build say 10 000 units per year for low cost or social housing.
one example ,theres an article in the sunday times this week,
Theres a scheme for builders to get a grant to build affordable housing,
They can get it even if the houses are selling for 400k.
if joe bloggs turns down a house the next person on the list is offered it.
The media seems to love writing about people turning down council houses .
If someone lives in dublin and has 2 kids is it reasonable to expect her to move to kerry to get a council house.?
And leave all her friends and family in dublin.
I find it annoying to read articles about housing ,
saying young people cannot afford to buy a house ,eg every house is 200k etc theres still houses going for 70 k in rural area,s.

If she wants a free public funded house I say its very reasonable

neonsofa

ThisRegard wrote: »

I'm on a UK network at the moment so all my results are coming back UK related, but this is how NI class is



I think the same definition may be used here. Someone living at home until it suits them to move out, saving money, waiting for something to come up etc are all seen as homeless.

Seen as homeless by who?

ash23

endacl wrote: »

Off topic, but how slowly do you drive?!? I could leave Dublin now and be in Limerick in slightly over two hours.

I'm talking about counties like cork or mayo where end to end could take two hours because some of the roads are crap and they're big enough distances to cover.

I can be in Dublin in two and a half hours on the motorway. Takes me nearly that to get from one end of the county to the other.

Much better to have a physical geographical limit such as twenty five miles than impose limits based on county borders which vary quite a lot from area to area.

NIMAN

I would like to see an impartial TV investigation done into this whole crisis.

Looking at people who turn down houses because its too far from Mammy, travel around all the empty houses/boarded up houses and start asking difficult questions to councils and potential tenants.

ThisRegard

pilly wrote: »

No they're not, you're incorrect, sorry. You may be thinking about who makes up the councils waiting list but that's different to the homeless figures.

One of the definitions the OECD use for homelessness is

People living temporarily in conventional housing with family and friends due to lack of housing

https://www.oecd.org/els/family/HC3-1-Homeless-population.pdf

However, I do see in the same document that Ireland does not seem to lump that category into their numbers.

neonsofa wrote: »

Seen as homeless by who?

The media usually.

pilly

ThisRegard wrote: »

I'm on a UK network at the moment so all my results are coming back UK related, but this is how NI class is



I think the same definition may be used here. Someone living at home until it suits them to move out, saving money, waiting for something to come up etc are all seen as homeless.

I don't know how many times you have to be told but that's simply not the case. The figures would be huge if that was the case.

ThisRegard

pilly wrote: »

I don't know how many times you have to be told but that's simply not the case. The figures would be huge if that was the case.

Did you not see where I acknowledged this? And I also stated from the outset that it's in some quarters, not everywhere. It's usually the media pushing these people to the front of their papers/websites. The couple living in their car in Tallaght from a while back being a prime example, before things were as bad as they are now.

pilly

ThisRegard wrote: »

Did you not see where I acknowledged this? And I also stated from the outset that it's in some quarters, not everywhere. It's usually the media pushing these people to the front of their papers/websites.

I didn't see it before I posted no but I was just getting frustrated at your not believing anyone else.

I've done some work in the sector so I know the figures for homeless are very accurate for the very reason that people in the sector don't want them manipulated.

It's also of interest to note that the figure in the report you quoted has now doubled. This is why the media publish stories about it.

In my view they pick the wrong people to do the stories on but that's because the truly troubled and in need people are too ashamed to be in the newspapers or online.

You obviously believe these figures are exaggerated and had to do your own research despite 3 posters telling you otherwise.

It's sometimes hard to let go of a tightly entrenched view.

weldoninhio

handlemaster wrote: »

if you cant afford a home. you take what your given. obviously you will have stories from everyone why they cant move. if the job doesnt pay enought then move. there are jobs in mayo to.

I disagree with that. If you have a job and are on a housing list you should be given priority for houses in the same city as your job. Doesn't have to be city centre for example. If you work in the city centre a house in Balbriggan north or Dun Laoghaire south would work. Train and buses to get you to work.

neonsofa

ThisRegard wrote: »

One of the definitions the OECD use for homelessness is


https://www.oecd.org/els/family/HC3-1-Homeless-population.pdf

However, I do see in the same document that Ireland does not seem to lump that category into their numbers.



The media usually.

Media always exaggerate though.

The agencies allocating services or housing to people have a very rigid definition so it doesn't matter what the media want to say really.

ThisRegard

pilly wrote: »

I didn't see it before I posted no but I was just getting frustrated at your not believing anyone else.
........
In my view they pick the wrong people to do the stories on but that's because the truly troubled and in need people are too ashamed to be in the newspapers or online.

You obviously believe these figures are exaggerated and had to do your own research despite 3 posters telling you otherwise.

It's sometimes hard to let go of a tightly entrenched view.

In fairness, it wasn't that I wasn't believing anyone else, and my view was hardly entrenched given my subsequent posts.

pilly

neonsofa wrote:

Media always exaggerate though

The media report the actual figures. How can they exaggerate that?

ThisRegard

pilly wrote: »

The media report the actual figures. How can they exaggerate that?

Because they run with stories such as the one I mentioned. We all agree that they could do without such stories, as it muddies that water.

neonsofa

pilly wrote: »

The media report the actual figures. How can they exaggerate that?

The explanation of how is literally there to read on thread. If they are classing people moving back home as homeless like that person claims then that's how they would be exaggerating. I am not referring to when they quote actual official figures.

pilly

neonsofa wrote: »

The explanation of how is literally there to read on thread. If they are classing people moving back home as homeless like that person claims then that's how they would be exaggerating. I am not referring to when they quote actual official figures.

Now that's just madness, a newspaper can't just decide to add people into the homeless figure and print that figure, doesn't happen.

If you can find one that has done please post a link.

the_syco

jamesthepeach wrote: »

You would think that all of the boarded up houses would get used quickly then.

You'll find that the ones boarded up either have degenerates or drug dealers living next door to them, or the place got badly damaged (fire, etc), and there's no budget to fix it as of yet.

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Is there a limit to how long you are allowed to keep getting choices?

Can't see that ever happening. I'd say it's a never-ending list which you goto the bottom if you decline the choices given.

handlemaster wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/i-miss-out-on-family-events-and-wont-see-daylight-at-all-some-weeks-says-father-36089828.html
Why not give this guy a home beside his work place, if you think you shouldnt be moved from your friends or family. At least he is paying taxes

Why? Everyone else has to commute. What makes him special?

riclad wrote: »

I find it annoying to read articles about housing ,
saying young people cannot afford to buy a house ,eg every house is 200k etc theres still houses going for 70 k in rural area,s.

If they're buying the house, it means they're working, and thus the house for 70k in the back arse of nowhere isn't near their job.

ThisRegard wrote: »

I'm on a UK network at the moment so all my results are coming back UK related

ThisRegard wrote: »

It's usually the media

Would that be the english media or the Irish media?

neonsofa

pilly wrote: »

Now that's just madness, a newspaper can't just decide to add people into the homeless figure and print that figure, doesn't happen.

If you can find one that has done please post a link.

Can you please read the context in which my comments have been made and not put words in my mouth. I didn't claim they add anything to any offical figures. I literally just said the media always exaggerate as the person said the media where the ones to consider certain cohorts as homeless, I pointed out that in official stats they would not be considered to be homeless in those circumtances. The whole interaction is there for you to read pilly.

pilly

neonsofa wrote: »

Can you please read the context in which my comments have been made and not put words in my mouth. I didn't claim they add anything to any offical figures. I literally just said the media always exaggerate as the person said the media where the ones to consider certain cohorts as homeless, I pointed out that in official stats they would not be considered to be homeless in those circumtances. The whole interaction is there for you to read pilly.

Sorry neon but you're not making sense. Exactly what are the media exaggerating then? If not the figures, then what? Give me an example?

I'm genuinely interested because I'm really disturbed by the sudden trend against homeless people.

Gatling

jamesthepeach wrote: »

So if you end up not choosing anything then you just stay on the list?

Are the choices countrywide or confined to areas close to where you are living at the minute?

Is there a limit to how long you are allowed to keep getting choices?

Yes you stay on the list

I think its 5 areas to choose from I'm currently down for properties north of the naas road clondalkin , lucan , south of the Naas road rathcoole , saggart , tallaght and ,
I've applied for properties just just over 10 years and not been successful ,

And no there is limit to how long you can get to get choices.

Also other housing providers such as cluid ,circle and a few others can also advertise properties so your not just restricted to county council houses/apartments

Monife

riclad wrote: »

I think if you are offered a house and turn it down you,ll be moved from the top of the list ,or lose a few points.
People have x no of points depending of health status, how long you are on the list,no of kids,etc
the last time i saw the form you can pick out 4 area,s egb city centre, swords,finglas etc
The main problem we have is lack of of supply ,there are not 1000,s of empty council houses in rural area,s waiting to be accupied .
Drive around any council estate or apartment block,
at least 3 per cent of units are boarded up.
i know 2 one bedroom flats empty for 2 years .
in dublin 2 .
The council renovates a flat when someone moves out.
i think they replace kitchen units etc
The government needs to set a target ,we will build say 10 000 units per year for low cost or social housing.
one example ,theres an article in the sunday times this week,
Theres a scheme for builders to get a grant to build affordable housing,
They can get it even if the houses are selling for 400k.
if joe bloggs turns down a house the next person on the list is offered it.
The media seems to love writing about people turning down council houses .
If someone lives in dublin and has 2 kids is it reasonable to expect her to move to kerry to get a council house.?
And leave all her friends and family in dublin.
I find it annoying to read articles about housing ,
saying young people cannot afford to buy a house ,eg every house is 200k etc theres still houses going for 70 k in rural area,s.

So are you saying, force tax-paying workers to move 3 hours away from their place of work and relatives/friends but those on the housing list can live where they choose. That is ridiculous!

neonsofa

pilly wrote: »

Sorry neon but you're not making sense. Exactly what are the media exaggerating then? If not the figures, then what? Give me an example?

I'm genuinely interested because I'm really disturbed by the sudden trend against homeless people.

Seriously, read my first post in response to the poster claiming the figures include those back home/couch surfing. I corrected him re official figures. He then said that this cohort of people are seen as homeless by some quarters. I asked by who. He said media. I said media always exaggerate. Nothing to do with them exaggerating figures. Nothing to do with me being "against homeless" whatever you mean by that. Purely a comment made to that poster as to why the media would incude other cohorts in their reporting when official classifications are more rigid.

Again, it is literally all there typed for you to read. Im done explaining what is already there for you to read. I resent your comment re the trend against homeless, as I was actually making the point in defence of homeless people if you bothered to read what was actually posted in the context it was posted, and not just jump to your own conclusions.

Gatling

Monife wrote: »

So are you saying, force tax-paying workers to move 3 hours away from their place of work and relatives/friends but those on the housing list can live where they choose. That is ridiculous!

This is what I never understand with people some people get the best of choices for Absolutely no effort while those working get the least amount of choices (it seems ) and the people sitting doing nothing waiting for a forever home are to be seen as poor unfortunate victim's

pilly

neonsofa wrote: »

Seriously, read my first post in response to the poster claiming the figures include those back home/couch surfing. I corrected him re official figures. He then said that this cohort of people are seen as homeless by some quarters. I asked by who. He said media. I said media always exaggerate. Nothing to do with them exaggerating figures. Nothing to do with me being "against homeless" whatever you mean by that. Purely a comment made to that poster as to why the media would incude other cohorts in their reporting when official classifications are more rigid.

Again, it is literally all there typed for you to read. Im done explaining what is already there for you to read. I resent your comment re the trend against homeless, as I was actually making the point in defence of homeless people if you bothered to read what was actually posted in the context it was posted, and not just jump to your own conclusions.

I apologise so, I did misunderstand.

neonsofa

pilly wrote: »

I apologise so, I did misunderstand.

Thank you! (Finally )

Mrs OBumble

Some real weirdness on this thread.

Firstly: many of the people who are offered council housing aren't homeless. They are "in need of housing assistance" 'cos they're inadequately housed (living in a sh*thole, or at home with mammy despite having a kid of their own), or they are regarded as unable to afford to house themselves because family take-home income is less than a certain amount (last time I looked it was around 35k per year in Dublin). They latter are usually paying high rents to private sector landlord, sometimes supported by HAP. With the housing shortage, the proportion of people on the list to get houisng assistance who are officially homeless has gone up, but it's not 100%.

Next, most people who are on the waiting list for council housing aren't mentally ill or substance abusers - and for the ones who are, their condition is generally known about as part of their housing application, because they're on disability allowance or similar.

Many are low-paid workers - and of course they should only be allocated housing within reasonable commutes of their current job. (Reasonable in my books = able to be done on public transport and taking less than 45 mins each way on average.)

Some are in further education, to make it more likely they can get work eventually. They also should only be offered with the same criteria.

Some have a family member with special health needs - but again, this should be recorded on the housing-assistance application, so is well known.

But plenty have no particular ties, and could well be offered housing around the country.

However this would cause lots of social problems: Irish towns typically don't like blow-ins, people don't want Dubs next door etc. Someone who accepted such an offer could well find themselves in a place where no publican or shop-keeper in town will serve them. So as well as it sounds in theory, I cannot see it working in practise.

pilly

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Some real weirdness on this thread.

Firstly: many of the people who are offered council housing aren't homeless. They are "in need of housing assistance" 'cos they're inadequately housed (living in a sh*thole, or at home with mammy despite having a kid of their own), or they are regarded as unable to afford to house themselves because family take-home income is less than a certain amount (last time I looked it was around 35k per year in Dublin). They latter are usually paying high rents to private sector landlord, sometimes supported by HAP. With the housing shortage, the proportion of people on the list to get houisng assistance who are officially homeless has gone up, but it's not 100%.

Next, most people who are on the waiting list for council housing aren't mentally ill or substance abusers - and for the ones who are, their condition is generally known about as part of their housing application, because they're on disability allowance or similar.

Many are low-paid workers - and of course they should only be allocated housing within reasonable commutes of their current job. (Reasonable in my books = able to be done on public transport and taking less than 45 mins each way on average.)

Some are in further education, to make it more likely they can get work eventually. They also should only be offered with the same criteria.

Some have a family member with special health needs - but again, this should be recorded on the housing-assistance application, so is well known.

But plenty have no particular ties, and could well be offered housing around the country.

However this would cause lots of social problems: Irish towns typically don't like blow-ins, people don't want Dubs next door etc. Someone who accepted such an offer could well find themselves in a place where no publican or shop-keeper in town will serve them. So as well as it sounds in theory, I cannot see it working in practise.

I was almost agreeing with you for once until you said someone could find themselves in a town where no publican or shop-keeper would serve them?

That only happens to a certain sector of our community and has nothing to do with homeless people.

Not sure where you're coming from with that.

Sleeper12

pilly wrote: »

I was almost agreeing with you for once until you said someone could find themselves in a town where no publican or shop-keeper would serve them?

That only happens to a certain sector of our community and has nothing to do with homeless people.

Not sure where you're coming from with that.

I'm guessing you are talking about Travelers & foreign nationals

Some Travelers & foreign nationals are homeless too & there are plenty on the housing list & there are plenty places in Ireland where they wont be served.

pilly

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm guessing you are talking about Travelers & foreign nationals

Some Travelers & foreign nationals are homeless too & there are plenty on the housing list & there are plenty places in Ireland where they wont be served.

I live in rural Ireland and if anything I'd say people are more tolerant down here than in larger cities.

Foreign nationals are served everywhere I know of. Travelers I couldn't care less about tbh.

Btw I wasn't referring to foreign nationals because I literally don't know of anywhere that doesn't serve them either in rural Ireland or in cities.

accensi0n

pilly wrote: »

I apologise so, I did misunderstand.

*Internet explodes*

Mrs OBumble

There are places where a north Dublin accent will get you little or no service, either. And a Cork accent they'll probably pretend they cannot understand.

Especially if you've come down here taking the council house which we were hoping our <<insert adult-child's name>> would be after getting.