Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Former Waterford Crystal site to be placed on vacant sites register. Owners Shocked!

Options

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Max Powers
    Registered Users Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Max Powers


    Yeah,I agree mostly but they had some excuses about environmental surveys being done and trying to sell some of it to WIT(they have no money I presume).
    Would be great to see some movement there so a levy of some sort for certain sites useful idea in general me thinks.


  • Options
    #3
    BBM77
    Registered Users Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭BBM77


    Max Powers wrote: »
    Yeah,I agree mostly but they had some excuses about environmental surveys being done and trying to sell some of it to WIT(they have no money I presume).
    Would be great to see some movement there so a levy of some sort for certain sites useful idea in general me thinks.

    I don’t know, it sounds like an excuse to me, these developers always seem to have one. It would hardly take four years for groundwater testing.


  • Options
    #4
    Max Powers
    Registered Users Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Max Powers


    BBM77 wrote: »
    I don’t know, it sounds like an excuse to me, these developers always seem to have one. It would hardly take four years for groundwater testing.

    True, if they can plausibly say doing something fair enough but yeah,4 years a bit much .only caveat is we don't really know what's going on, if anything going on at all


  • Options
    #5
    Dum_Dum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 587 ✭✭✭Dum_Dum


    Max Powers wrote: »
    True, if they can plausibly say doing something fair enough but yeah,4 years a bit much .only caveat is we don't really know what's going on, if anything going on at all

    While they're making their minds up, they can build some houses.


  • Options
    #6
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    The EPA need to get their bloody skates on if they are the problem. As for University development Frisby would be wise not to wait on that. If it happens chances are the new build will be elsewhere - out on the ring road.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    iseegirls
    Registered Users Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭iseegirls


    Is the full list of zones which will be prone to a levy available online?


  • Options
    #8
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,387 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Dum_Dum wrote:
    While they're making their minds up, they can build some houses.


    The state really should be involved in building our housing deficit, but I guess that's a debate for another thread


  • Options
    #9
    Max Powers
    Registered Users Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Max Powers


    Dum_Dum wrote: »
    While they're making their minds up, they can build some houses.

    Can they build and sell them at a reasonable profit though? Best solution is WIT should have the site for expansion.where money to buy it comes from is the problem.


  • Options
    #10
    robtri
    Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭robtri


    I love that .. the Owner is surprised, how???
    vacant site... no planning permissions... cant get a tenant..
    and yet still surprissed


    Its a load of BS to say water testing is holding up doing anything with site

    he has done alot of work on the site, including major renovation works in the old offices and showroom, to bring them back to shell and core.

    He has tried and continues to try to get tenants onto the site, but just never seems to work out...a lot of pie in the sky stuff...
    i have heard over the years, everything from massive Retail outlet(s), WIT (who we all no have no money) a few high profile multinationals names ....

    and to this day is still actively after tenants..

    so surprised is a bit of a stretch....

    Its just another way of the government to rake in money, personally i thinks its a disgraceful tax...


  • Options
    #11
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    robtri wrote: »

    Its just another way of the government to rake in money, personally i thinks its a disgraceful tax...

    Speaking in general terms sitting on an urban land bank waiting for the biggest deal/best profit is just wrong. It's too important for that.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    goochy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭goochy


    Is it not a case that they tried to get a business park off the ground but it failed ?
    Don't live in Waterford myself but pass through alot . Is there a housing crisis in Waterford? ?


  • Options
    #13
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    I've suggested it before and it was knocked but with the re-development of the North Quays it would be an ideal site for Bus Eireann to re-locate to.
    With the various compulsory purchase orders placed on sites adjacent to Bus Eireann they are really sitting in no mans land in terms of location!


  • Options
    #14
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,387 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    TheQuietFella wrote:
    I've suggested it before and it was knocked but with the re-development of the North Quays it would be an ideal site for Bus Eireann to re-locate to. With the various compulsory purchase orders placed on sites adjacent to Bus Eireann they are really sitting in no mans land in terms of location!


    Am I getting this right, relocate bus eireann to the old factory site? If so, very interesting idea, I wonder how many passengers would want to be dropped outside the city centre?


  • Options
    #15
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Am I getting this right, relocate bus eireann to the old factory site? If so, very interesting idea, I wonder how many passengers would want to be dropped outside the city centre?

    And what about the students who travel to Waterford on a weekly basis?
    How do they make their way to their residential accommodation?

    The cost of a transfer should be included in the price of the ticket without any additional cost to the passenger! Get the expressway buses out of the city centre and have them cross the toll bridge instead. I think it would be better for the city but that's just my thoughts!


  • Options
    #16
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,387 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    TheQuietFella wrote:
    And what about the students who travel to Waterford on a weekly basis? How do they make their way to their residential accommodation?

    It's a fair point alright, students are a very large part of the customer base but they aren't the only ones using the service, not forgetting, the college term is only a few months of the year. Bus eireann could of course do what many other services do and just drop the students at wit, carrying on with their journey or returning to the depot.
    TheQuietFella wrote:
    The cost of a transfer should be included in the price of the ticket without any additional cost to the passenger! Get the expressway buses out of the city centre and have them cross the toll bridge instead. I think it would be better for the city but that's just my thoughts!

    Should everyones transfer be included in the price of the ticket? How do we fund this? It seems strange to want to remove a major part of the public transport system from the city centre, but maybe it's been done elsewhere successfully?


  • Options
    #17
    gscully
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭gscully


    I'd love to see this site developed as an indoor concert venue similar to the 3 Arena. Plenty of nearby parking for concert-goers.


  • Options
    #18
    Deise Vu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭Deise Vu


    I have to say I am not very comfortable with the idea of this tax. Banks will not lend money anymore on what they consider 'speculative' investments. They want leases in place with strong tenant covenants or binding sale contracts before they will even consider lending. Even then they want huge security and, ideally a secure cashflow. There are no Anglo Irish's out there anymore, (thank God).

    Not alone is finance an issue but so far, according to the Sunday Times, only Dublin, Donegal and Waterford have moved to initiate this register. How can that be legal fair and constitutional? A vacant site in Ferrybank would be OK but not on the Cork Road? Also the logical conclusion of the tax is that all these sites get developed (if finance is somehow made available). Then we have every vacant site in the country covered in housing (I presume). I understand we need to do something on the supply side for housing but I think finance is the problem not developers turning their noses up at easy profits for some bizarre reason. History has shown us that nearly every intervention by Govt into construction has had negative unforeseen consequences and I think this register will be yet another one.


  • Options
    #19
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    It's a fair point alright, students are a very large part of the customer base but they aren't the only ones using the service, not forgetting, the college term is only a few months of the year. Bus eireann could of course do what many other services do and just drop the students at wit, carrying on with their journey or returning to the depot.

    Should everyones transfer be included in the price of the ticket? How do we fund this? It seems strange to want to remove a major part of the public transport system from the city centre, but maybe it's been done elsewhere successfully?

    In Dublin we have multiple stops both leaving and entering the city via Bus Eireann. Dublin Bus again have various routes that run through various sections of the city. I accept that unfortunately we are not Dublin but we have to think big if we as a city are to develop!

    Why or is there only one route to Tramore?
    Why is there not a service that runs through Johns Park, Brownes Road, Cork Road particularly during the summer months? Is there even a service from Tramore that goes to the IDA?


  • Options
    #20
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 14,011 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Deise Vu wrote: »
    I have to say I am not very comfortable with the idea of this tax. Banks will not lend money anymore on what they consider 'speculative' investments. They want leases in place with strong tenant covenants or binding sale contracts before they will even consider lending. Even then they want huge security and, ideally a secure cashflow. There are no Anglo Irish's out there anymore, (thank God).

    Not alone is finance an issue but so far, according to the Sunday Times, only Dublin, Donegal and Waterford have moved to initiate this register. How can that be legal fair and constitutional? A vacant site in Ferrybank would be OK but not on the Cork Road? Also the logical conclusion of the tax is that all these sites get developed (if finance is somehow made available). Then we have every vacant site in the country covered in housing (I presume). I understand we need to do something on the supply side for housing but I think finance is the problem not developers turning their noses up at easy profits for some bizarre reason. History has shown us that nearly every intervention by Govt into construction has had negative unforeseen consequences and I think this register will be yet another one.

    So I have a site but do not have the money to develop it.
    Neither do I want to sell it at a loss .... IF I could find a buyer!
    Now I am to be hit with a tax on that site for not developing it.

    Strange logic in there.

    It would be more logical to offer owners of such sites financing for specific development types, dependent on location and suitability of site.

    If such development financing was refused then some form of 'tax' *might* be appropriate.


  • Options
    #21
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    So I have a site but do not have the money to develop it.
    Neither do I want to sell it at a loss .... IF I could find a buyer!
    Now I am to be hit with a tax on that site for not developing it.

    Strange logic in there.

    Why purchase it so?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    JohnC.
    Registered Users Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    Considering how prices are rising, would be really be selling at a loss if he were to sell now?


  • Options
    #23
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 14,011 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    JohnC. wrote: »
    Considering how prices are rising, would be really be selling at a loss if he were to sell now?

    IF a buyer is found ...... only the owner of such a site could determine that.


  • Options
    #24
    Deise Vu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭Deise Vu


    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    Why purchase it so?

    As I mentioned earlier Banks will not lend on speculative investments so the only only potential purchasers are people with the capital to purchase and the capital to develop. That is a very, very, small pool of of potential purchasers who know you are selling because you have no alternative. Not a good position to leverage a decent price.


  • Options
    #25
    CardBordWindow
    Registered Users Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭CardBordWindow


    As with any investment, there is risk involved. The site was bought with the sole intention of making money. Same as any one making an investment.
    Many people have been stung in the past and continue to be stung by investments, so I don't understand the sympathy people are showing to the developer in this situation. If the investment is costing money he has the option to sell it or pay the costs and sit it out and wait.


  • Options
    #26
    robtri
    Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭robtri


    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    Why purchase it so?

    many reasons

    i believe his main one was to invest his money and make a return on it

    I also believe that he genuinely wanted to help Waterford and have something to try and attract business retail and office and Third level expansion to the city

    he did want to make a difference

    he was working a lot of angles and unfortunately none came to fruition..

    I know he is still trying to do things...


    so lets tax him and penalize him for this


  • Options
    #27
    Deiseen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭Deiseen


    Would be a great site for a new stadium....


  • Options
    #28
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 14,011 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    CardBordWindow wrote: »
    As with any investment, there is risk involved. The site was bought with the sole intention of making money. Same as any one making an investment.
    Many people have been stung in the past and continue to be stung by investments, so I don't understand the sympathy people are showing to the developer in this situation. If the investment is costing money he has the option to sell it or pay the costs and sit it out and wait.

    Most of us are used to being taxed on gains made by investments, but when the investment fails it is difficult to understand why there is a 'tax' applied.


Advertisement