PV- real world figures

Something to be aware of is a lot of these white goods machines are declared attended appliances so remote starting them or using them while sleeping can be deemed outside the terms of contract of your house insurance in the event of a calamity.

Gumbo

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Something to be aware of is a lot of these white goods machines are declared attended appliances so remote starting them or using them while sleeping can be deemed outside the terms of contract of your house insurance in the event of a calamity.

+1

As someone who is a member of The Institute of Fire Engineers, I hate the thought of these things running in the night. I don't even charge the phone over night

unkel

kceire wrote: »

Technically you are correct, but I know I wouldn't run the washing machine and dishwasher at night due to the noise they make etc

The kids bedrooms are directly over the kitchen, so for me, even if I was on night rate, I wouldn't do it.

In that case you do save the day rate on those

KCross

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Something to be aware of is a lot of these white goods machines are declared attended appliances so remote starting them or using them while sleeping can be deemed outside the terms of contract of your house insurance in the event of a calamity.

kceire wrote: »

+1

As someone who is a member of The Institute of Fire Engineers, I hate the thought of these things running in the night. I don't even charge the phone over night

I read a lot of the fine print in my house insurance and dont ever remember seeing a reference to "attended appliances" or voiding insurance if I run appliances "unattended".

They have delay timers in them and so you are simply using them as they are designed... I cant see how an insurance company could dodge that if you are using it as designed.... whether it is safe to do so is another argument entirely but for me thats what smoke detectors are for.

Its like saying people get killed on the roads so dont drive.

Even if you run it by day what does "attended" really mean... do you really stand over your appliances to ensure it doesnt explode or catch fire?

Its as likely to catch fire during the day as night.... just check your smoke detectors regularly and ensure they are between the appliance and your bedrooms.

What about my fridge.... should I stay up and watch that?

listermint

KCross wrote: »

I read a lot of the fine print in my house insurance and dont ever remember seeing a reference to "attended appliances" or voiding insurance if I run appliances "unattended".

They have delay timers in them and so you are simply using them as they are designed... I cant see how an insurance company could dodge that if you are using it as designed.... whether it is safe to do so is another argument entirely but for me thats what smoke detectors are for.

Its like saying people get killed on the roads so dont drive.

Even if you run it by day what does "attended" really mean... do you really stand over your appliances to ensure it doesnt explode or catch fire?

Its as likely to catch fire during the day as night.... just check your smoke detectors regularly and ensure they are between the appliance and your bedrooms.

What about my fridge.... should I stay up and watch that?

Sure dont the manufacturers expect you to pull up a chair an monitor them whilst they work away.

This unattended stuff is off the wall. You wont find it in an insurance document because how in the hell would someone notice a problem with a washer thats in a utility room at the back of their house.

Its not realistic.

Clicky

If you are running a drier from solar power you are probably misunderstanding the basic principles of renewable energy.

KCross

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Clicky

That doesnt support your claim about some insurers not covering you for using unattended appliances.


It gave two opt outs for the insurers...

- It says if you use a known bad product then they have an opt out because you were basically stupid to keep using a model known to catch fire... thats fair enough.

- And it says if you use the product outside of its design... if it has a delay timer its clearly designed to be used unattended.


I'll be taking another look at my insurance though to be sure!

Earlier Link

Earlier Link wrote:

Most of the terms and conditions clearly state that you will not be insured if you “fail to follow manufacturers’ instructions”. Whirlpool, which owns Indesit, Creda and Hotpoint, has advised the filter should be cleaned daily and the machine not used unattended.

.

KCross

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

.

If I read it correct, thats for one dryer which has a known fault that was subject to a fire recall. Its not in the design of every appliance..... as I said, if it has a delay timer it is inherently designed to be used unattended therefore not breaking any insurance or manufacture clauses, that I know of.

Not much point in setting it to start in 6hrs time and then having to stand in front of it in 6hrs time to monitor it!

That particular article said "filter can fall against the heating element and catch fire"... thats not even possible in my one. The filter is nowhere near the heating element. Sounds like a badly designed dryer, tbh.

Beko

Indeed, I might have better things to do than read every white goods manual just to demonstrate a point...

Beko wrote:

Don’t start the dryer and go out or go to bed for the reasons stated in point 4. Whilst the dryer does not need continuous monitoring, it should not be left running whilst completely unattended.

Link

https://www.whitegoodshelp.co.uk/is-it-safe-to-leave-washing-machine-on/ wrote:

Many thousands of houses fires are caused each year, and people die in some of these fires. According to the Electricity Safety Council 22 deaths and 2,500 injuries were caused by appliance electrical fires (some due to misuse) in 2012.

Of these fires, the following relevant statistics stand out –

Increasing the risk of serious fire spreading by leaving the tumble dryer running unattended or overnight (9%)
Leaving an electrical appliance on while unattended, only to be alerted by a burning smell (9%)
Blocking air vents by failing to clean behind their fridge/freezer (44%)

The Electrical Safety Council’s website also says that washing machines and tumble dryers are the second most common causes of electrical fires in the UK. I know dishwashers and fridges also can and do catch fire.



....



Many appliances now come with delayed start features. This shows the manufacturers are happy for the appliance to be used totally unattended. However, cases of washing machines, dishwashers and tumble dryers catching fire do occur – and seem to be occurring at alarming rates these days – so clearly using this feature is potentially very dangerous. You need to decide if risking a house fire is a risk you need to take. Government fire safety advice is to not to leave white goods running unattended. This doesn’t mean you have to pull up a chair and watch, but just make sure someone is in the house to hear any smoke alarms go off or smell any burning.

KCross

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Indeed, I might have better things to do than read every white goods manual just to demonstrate a point...

Link

Well this is more like it from that link...

"This doesn’t mean you have to pull up a chair and watch, but just make sure someone is in the house to hear any smoke alarms go off or smell any burning."

I can agree with that.

Ultimately its a risk assessment.... do road deaths and aviation crashes stop you driving or flying? I think the chance of your dryer killing you are statistically very small. Just have a working smoke alarm.

air

It would be good to set up smart sockets or whatever to automatically switch off when the smoke alarm is activated to help remove power before a fault erupts into flames.

Gumbo

KCross wrote: »

I read a lot of the fine print in my house insurance and dont ever remember seeing a reference to "attended appliances" or voiding insurance if I run appliances "unattended".

They have delay timers in them and so you are simply using them as they are designed... I cant see how an insurance company could dodge that if you are using it as designed.... whether it is safe to do so is another argument entirely but for me thats what smoke detectors are for.

Its like saying people get killed on the roads so dont drive.

Even if you run it by day what does "attended" really mean... do you really stand over your appliances to ensure it doesnt explode or catch fire?

Its as likely to catch fire during the day as night.... just check your smoke detectors regularly and ensure they are between the appliance and your bedrooms.

What about my fridge.... should I stay up and watch that?

My post was not related to the insurance side of things. I do t care for that. I just can’t sleep right while those items run. Plus I like to be there in the case of a leak or burst hose which has happened to me before while the washing machine was spinning away.

Specifically what I was thinking of is people using night tariffs or maximising their solar PV usage by using remote monitoring and wifi enabled sockets. In the event of an accident, declaring you were hibernating or at work at the time of the incident is only going to cause you problems.

Driving? You're equally not insured enabling self-drive when you are outside of eyeshot of the vehicle.
I'm not saying don't do it, just it's not advisable. I do things that aren't advisable all the time..as long as you are aware of the risk and assume your own liability...

Regarding the implied statement from a manufacturer that it's ok because it has a delay timer? That's not evidence! For all we know that's the brainchild of the marketing department having consulted the bean counters adding a feature that costs next to nothing to implement and told the design engineers to stow their reservations. Happens all the time.
I soak test all kinds of gear and I can assure you what marketing is implying you are getting and what you actually end up with are two completely different things. If you don't believe me have a look at your inverter quoted efficiency. Then install a DC meter on your solar panel and an independent unbiased AC meter on the output. Wait until the inverter is nice and warm at 30% load then calculate the real world efficiency.
The manufacturer didn't lie by the way they just quoted the maximum efficiency and let you assume the rest.
You know how they got that figure? In a climate controlled clean room, with dense air external active cooling, feeding it a perfectly stable square wave at load voltage, with optimised load, stone cold electronics and zero cable losses.
I spend more time debunking manufacturer claims than validating them.

If it says in the manual "can be left unattended" then you are covered.

Sleeper12

For what it's worth there have been public safety campaigns run in the last year or so in Ireland asking not to run washing machines & dishwashers when you go to bed. Several fires have been caused by this.

I suppose the same could be said about running them during the day while you are at work. The main difference being if you are not in the house & a fire starts then your life wont be in danger

rolion

so funny...any woman around here !? Does your wife reads here ?

My wife says when the wash machine goes on or off,no matter what the sun or manual says...
She calm says: "do you need clean shirt tomorrow !? " and wash machine beeps, indicating start of the washing cycle...

Gnet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/104667631#Comment_104667631

Hi,

Have you any contact details for Trannenergy or do you have installer details? I'm struggling to get a Certificate for one that was installed in our house before we bought it, no response from Trannenergy in Uk..

Thanks

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121126431#Comment_121126431

Unfortunately no as I swapped it out for a hybrid invertor to add the battery.

Gnet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121126931#Comment_121126931

Not to worry, thanks for your reply.