Tillage as viable part time farming option

GoingForIt

Lads,

The story is that we have 80 acre farm at home that my father ran as a good dairy farm up until about 12 yers ago when he sold cows and quota because neither myself or my brother were going to full-time farm it. The father now has the perfect retirement going around the marts buying cattle and finishing them and turning a few bob which supplements his SFP + Pension......perfect sure..

Now here comes the problem, he is getting well-on and he now plans to give the whole lot over to me.

I will be honest, I live about 20 miles away and I have a good job (manager in a multinational). Although I have a good job, I am time poor as I often have to travel at short notice, therefore keeping animals is simply not an option as I am typically out of the country 8-10 weeks per year.

So I have 3 options:
1. Rent it out (nope - i want use the land)
2. Bale silage and sell silage to dairy lads (nope - i would be all year selling and then chasing money)
3. Small tillage setup (maybe - can work at evening's/weekends for maybe 6 wks per year?)

We have a decent 120hp tractor

So my question is:
If I invested in a (45k in savings)
- 4 furrow reversible plough
- 3m One-pass system
- sprayer
AND
- contracted out the harvesting
- contracted out baling the straw
would I
a) make >15k profit (consider the 45k as not requiring repayment)
b) only have to minimal time (only need to be around at certain times of year)

I know about the teagasc calculator, but i want to opinion of real people and their experiences if there is any out there in a similar position.

cheers

kk.man

GoingForIt wrote: »

Lads,

The story is that we have 80 acre farm at home that my father ran as a good dairy farm up until about 12 yers ago when he sold cows and quota because neither myself or my brother were going to full-time farm it. The father now has the perfect retirement going around the marts buying cattle and finishing them and turning a few bob which supplements his SFP + Pension......perfect sure..

Now here comes the problem, he is getting well-on and he now plans to give the whole lot over to me.

I will be honest, I live about 20 miles away and I have a good job (manager in a multinational). Although I have a good job, I am time poor as I often have to travel at short notice, therefore keeping animals is simply not an option as I am typically out of the country 8-10 weeks per year.

So I have 3 options:
1. Rent it out (nope - i want use the land)
2. Bale silage and sell silage to dairy lads (nope - i would be all year selling and then chasing money)
3. Small tillage setup (maybe - can work at evening's/weekends for maybe 6 wks per year?)

We have a decent 120hp tractor

So my question is:
If I invested in a (45k in savings)
- 4 furrow reversible plough
- 3m One-pass system
- sprayer
AND
- contracted out the harvesting
- contracted out baling the straw
would I
a) make >15k profit (consider the 45k as not requiring repayment)
b) only have to minimal time (only need to be around at certain times of year)

I know about the teagasc calculator, but i want to opinion of real people and their experiences if there is any out there in a similar position.

cheers

Why don't you keep your money and get a contactor to do it.

You have no capital outlay and maintaining machinery. Probably work out about the same. A contractor near me reconds it would cost a tillage farmer 150e per acre. That would save time too. Do a set deal with a big well equipped contractor. Most grain merchants have a local guy to spread fertilizer. Try to do a deal with them also.

You could get a lessor tractor for bringing in bales etc u will do well coming out of it with 100e per acre excl SFP.

Who2

GoingForIt wrote: »

Lads,

The story is that we have 80 acre farm at home that my father ran as a good dairy farm up until about 12 yers ago when he sold cows and quota because neither myself or my brother were going to full-time farm it. The father now has the perfect retirement going around the marts buying cattle and finishing them and turning a few bob which supplements his SFP + Pension......perfect sure..

Now here comes the problem, he is getting well-on and he now plans to give the whole lot over to me.

I will be honest, I live about 20 miles away and I have a good job (manager in a multinational). Although I have a good job, I am time poor as I often have to travel at short notice, therefore keeping animals is simply not an option as I am typically out of the country 8-10 weeks per year.

So I have 3 options:
1. Rent it out (nope - i want use the land)
2. Bale silage and sell silage to dairy lads (nope - i would be all year selling and then chasing money)
3. Small tillage setup (maybe - can work at evening's/weekends for maybe 6 wks per year?)

We have a decent 120hp tractor

So my question is:
If I invested in a (45k in savings)
- 4 furrow reversible plough
- 3m One-pass system
- sprayer
AND
- contracted out the harvesting
- contracted out baling the straw
would I
a) make >15k profit (consider the 45k as not requiring repayment)
b) only have to minimal time (only need to be around at certain times of year)

I know about the teagasc calculator, but i want to opinion of real people and their experiences if there is any out there in a similar position.

cheers

I don't know much about tillage but I'd reckon no way would it be viable. How would you manage with contractors in a year like this? You'll be the last lad they go to as there own would be more important or someone else would be shouting. Surely you could manage checking dry stock daily, graze what you can comfortably, finishing some off grass and the rest fed out of the shed. Use a tangled to buy and contractors as much as possible.

Mooooo

GoingForIt wrote: »

Lads,

The story is that we have 80 acre farm at home that my father ran as a good dairy farm up until about 12 yers ago when he sold cows and quota because neither myself or my brother were going to full-time farm it. The father now has the perfect retirement going around the marts buying cattle and finishing them and turning a few bob which supplements his SFP + Pension......perfect sure..

Now here comes the problem, he is getting well-on and he now plans to give the whole lot over to me.

I will be honest, I live about 20 miles away and I have a good job (manager in a multinational). Although I have a good job, I am time poor as I often have to travel at short notice, therefore keeping animals is simply not an option as I am typically out of the country 8-10 weeks per year.

So I have 3 options:
1. Rent it out (nope - i want use the land)
2. Bale silage and sell silage to dairy lads (nope - i would be all year selling and then chasing money)
3. Small tillage setup (maybe - can work at evening's/weekends for maybe 6 wks per year?)

We have a decent 120hp tractor

So my question is:
If I invested in a (45k in savings)
- 4 furrow reversible plough
- 3m One-pass system
- sprayer
AND
- contracted out the harvesting
- contracted out baling the straw
would I
a) make >15k profit (consider the 45k as not requiring repayment)
b) only have to minimal time (only need to be around at certain times of year)

I know about the teagasc calculator, but i want to opinion of real people and their experiences if there is any out there in a similar position.

cheers

If you kept a portion of it and rent out the rest. Rental income once over 5+yrs is tax free. Tillage the last few years is taking a bad hit profit wise. Realistically if you want to get money out of it without much time renting is the main one, perhaps only one

GoingForIt

checking every day is perfect during the long summer evenings, but when something goes wrong (eg. sick animal or water issue) then it ain't nice.

the folks went away for 7 weeks holidays this year and I was looking after ~60 beef stock........honestly lads, it felt as though I was working 24/7 for the 7 weeks.

I remember one night during the summer when a water pump was giving trouble, the animals had no water for nearly a full day and here I was at midnight trying to fix the pump.....and I still had to be in work the following morning! Fair enough it was a once off.

But the bigger issue is that I couldnt travel with work for the 7 weeks, which was not good. But with tillage, I can easily say for 1 or 2 weeks as being "i can't travel" about 4-5 times per year......and that would be around harvesting, ploughing and sowing time. Spraying could be easily a wknd job

GoingForIt

i'd be worried about the contractor taking all the money and literally leaving me with 0, or worse i owe money.

My plan would be to do it in stages:
Year 1 - Buy the plough, contract everything else
Year 2 - Buy the sprayer, contract remainder
etc.......

kk.man

GoingForIt wrote: »

i'd be worried about the contractor taking all the money and literally leaving me with 0, or worse i owe money.

My plan would be to do it in stages:
Year 1 - Buy the plough, contract everything else
Year 2 - Buy the sprayer, contract remainder
etc.......

Why not price it..get a set price

lakill Farm

kk.man wrote: »

Why not price it..get a set price

Stay away from ploughing. It's hard on machinery and tyres and diesel.on tractors and is cheap enough at e25 an acre.

So that be one of the last things.

Combine at 60e an acre and baling at e5 a bale.
Maybe concentrate at that.
Buy a decent combine to knock 80a for 10/15k.
Baler 5k

Sprayer. E3/5k

Sower e5k

Need a roller also.

GoingForIt

lakill Farm wrote: »

Stay away from ploughing. It's hard on machinery and tyres and diesel.on tractors and is cheap enough at e25 an acre.

So that be one of the last things.

Combine at 60e an acre and baling at e5 a bale.
Maybe concentrate at that.
Buy a decent combine to knock 80a for 10/15k.
Baler 5k

Sprayer. E3/5k

Sower e5k

Need a roller also.

remember that if i got a combine, then i need to transport it also which means a trailer.

i agree on the baler.

so if i spent ~45k as follows:
Sprayer - 4k
One pass - 17k
Baler - 12k
Plough - 8k
Roller - 5k

Contract
harvesting 60e per acre

would i pull 10-15k out of 80 acres?

GoingForIt

kk.man wrote: »

Why don't you keep your money and get a contactor to do it.

You have no capital outlay and maintaining machinery. Probably work out about the same. A contractor near me reconds it would cost a tillage farmer 150e per acre. That would save time too. Do a set deal with a big well equipped contractor. Most grain merchants have a local guy to spread fertilizer. Try to do a deal with them also.

You could get a lessor tractor for bringing in bales etc u will do well coming out of it with 100e per acre excl SFP.

would you reckon 100/ac after paying contractor.

with 80 acres that would give me 8k, which it i were to plough and bale only then i could another ~30e/ac onto that with 80 ac at 130e/ac = 10.5k which I would be happy with

lakill Farm

GoingForIt wrote: »

remember that if i got a combine, then i need to transport it also which means a trailer.

i agree on the baler.

so if i spent ~45k as follows:
Sprayer - 4k
One pass - 17k
Baler - 12k
Plough - 8k
Roller - 5k

Contract
harvesting 60e per acre

would i pull 10-15k out of 80 acres?

You drive a combine on the road. Most do 20/25kph. Insure it for fire anyway and tax it. E100 PA

Why would you spend 15k on a baler to bale straw

You need to factor out as much contracting as possible.

More Margain in for you then

Mooooo

GoingForIt wrote: »

remember that if i got a combine, then i need to transport it also which means a trailer.

i agree on the baler.

so if i spent ~45k as follows:
Sprayer - 4k
One pass - 17k
Baler - 12k
Plough - 8k
Roller - 5k

Contract
harvesting 60e per acre

would i pull 10-15k out of 80 acres?

Yield × price of grain and straw - Costs, ie seed, fert, spray, diesel, machinery, time etc.
Prob have to count for bad wether at setting or harvest as well. The tillage lads on here may contribute yet but depends on sfp etc with it id say

kk.man

GoingForIt wrote: »

would you reckon 100/ac after paying contractor.

with 80 acres that would give me 8k, which it i were to plough and bale only then i could another ~30e/ac onto that with 80 ac at 130e/ac = 10.5k which I would be happy with

Well this guy rented a big farm last year n here is what he told me
Paid the farmer 150 per acre
Carried or all the work themselves
Got a v good yield
Sold the straw it made 60e per acre
Didn't charge himself 4 the work
But he said it would have come to 150 per acre
So with the price of straw this year it should b at least 100e per acre

Thus the straw is ur profit !

GoingForIt

lakill Farm wrote: »

You drive a combine on the road. Most do 20/25kph. Insure it for fire anyway and tax it. E100 PA

Why would you spend 15k on a baler to bale straw

You need to factor out as much contracting as possible.

More Margain in for you then

remember, I will have to factor in machine maintenance. I want to buy semi-decent machines that I can look after.

i am looking at a 15 year view, so I don't want to buy a combine and spend a lot of time trying to maintain it.

that is reason for buying relatively basic machinery. No way would I be able to maintain second hand combine. But a 15k baler doing 80 acres of straw every year should see me out.......

GoingForIt

kk.man wrote: »

Well this guy rented a big farm last year n here is what he told me
Paid the farmer 150 per acre
Carried or all the work themselves
Got a v good yield
Sold the straw it made 60e per acre
Didn't charge himself 4 the work
But he said it would have come to 150 per acre
So with the price of straw this year it should b at least 100e per acre

Thus the straw is ur profit !

so in theory, if i were to take my 45k as an investment and write it off on machinery, and best on your buddies experience
- i will own land (saving of 150e/ac)
- the work comes to 150e/ac (but i will pay contractor to harvest, which means 60-70 e/ac)

i should still make ~140e/ac???????

kk.man

GoingForIt wrote: »

so in theory, if i were to take my 45k as an investment and write it off on machinery, and best on your buddies experience
- i will own land (saving of 150e/ac)
- the work comes to 150e/ac (but i will pay contractor to harvest, which means 60-70 e/ac)

i should still make ~140e/ac???????

That 150 is all in from ploughing right thru bailing

Gawddawggonnit

GoingForIt wrote: »

Lads,

The story is that we have 80 acre farm at home that my father ran as a good dairy farm up until about 12 yers ago when he sold cows and quota because neither myself or my brother were going to full-time farm it. The father now has the perfect retirement going around the marts buying cattle and finishing them and turning a few bob which supplements his SFP + Pension......perfect sure..

Now here comes the problem, he is getting well-on and he now plans to give the whole lot over to me.

I will be honest, I live about 20 miles away and I have a good job (manager in a multinational). Although I have a good job, I am time poor as I often have to travel at short notice, therefore keeping animals is simply not an option as I am typically out of the country 8-10 weeks per year.

So I have 3 options:
1. Rent it out (nope - i want use the land)
2. Bale silage and sell silage to dairy lads (nope - i would be all year selling and then chasing money)
3. Small tillage setup (maybe - can work at evening's/weekends for maybe 6 wks per year?)

We have a decent 120hp tractor

So my question is:
If I invested in a (45k in savings)
- 4 furrow reversible plough
- 3m One-pass system
- sprayer
AND
- contracted out the harvesting
- contracted out baling the straw
would I
a) make >15k profit (consider the 45k as not requiring repayment)
b) only have to minimal time (only need to be around at certain times of year)

I know about the teagasc calculator, but i want to opinion of real people and their experiences if there is any out there in a similar position.

cheers

The last 5yrs have been very bad for tillage farmers.
Growing feed crops is a waste of time.
The way things are going <500ac farms are only able to support part time farming.
You could be away on your real job when a crop needs chemicals or harvesting etc.

Let the farm and leave some other poor sod take the risk while you pocket tax free euros.

ml100

I do something similar only less acres, a couple of things to note, you need a good contractor, do the ploughing yourself as the contractor probably won't have time, spraying is very time sensitive and with greening rules you will need 3 different crops which means 3 different spray cycles, don't underestimate the amount of time this takes getting the different sprays etc, I get my contractor to sow, spray and cut, it has just about worked out but you will struggle to make more with the current feed grain prices and it's very difficult to time the cutting if malting Barley etc right when using a contractor.
If I was travelling amount that you do with work I don't think it would be worth the stress for return you would be getting.
If you do decide to do it, look into registering for vat before you spend any more.

K.G.

Maybe im missing something but when do you plan to do the work.field work tends to be done in weather windows and all has to be done when it needs to be done.every saturday aint going to be suitable

lakill Farm

K.G. wrote: »

Maybe im missing something but when do you plan to do the work.field work tends to be done in weather windows and all has to be done when it needs to be done.every saturday aint going to be suitable

That's why I said about subbing out ploughing. It's a slow job

You can easily sow at night with GPS and also spraying

2 days would knock 80 acres with a 16ft header in the right conditions.

freedominacup

Crop husbandry is if anything more technically skilled than managing a high output dairy operation. Maybe not the same day to day intensity of dairying but the good operators are constantly monitoring their crops throughout the growing season and timing applications of fert and chems to very fine margins. Tillage done right is not the fire and forget operation you seem to think it is. When a crop is due chems it's due them today not when you're back from travelling for your real job.

You could look at a contract farming option. Maybe look at doing your own ploughing and straw clearance if you want to keep an interest. Tillage farmer/contractor does everything else and supplies sprays . You supply seed, fert and land and split the profits. You get access to his skills and machinery. He is spreading his fixed costs over more acres. He will probably have a far better price on sprays than you will ever get if he's covering reasonable acreage. You both share risks and rewards.

cute geoge

freedominacup wrote: »

Crop husbandry is if anything more technically skilled than managing a high output dairy operation. Maybe not the same day to day intensity of dairying but the good operators are constantly monitoring their crops throughout the growing season and timing applications of fert and chems to very fine margins. Tillage done right is not the fire and forget operation you seem to think it is. When a crop is due chems it's due them today not when you're back from travelling for your real job.

You could look at a contract farming option. Maybe look at doing your own ploughing and straw clearance if you want to keep an interest. Tillage farmer/contractor does everything else and supplies sprays . You supply seed, fert and land and split the profits. You get access to his skills and machinery. He is spreading his fixed costs over more acres. He will probably have a far better price on sprays than you will ever get if he's covering reasonable acreage. You both share risks and rewards.

Thats is very good idea but wondering who owns the straw in that situation because i reckon the straw is where there might just a small bit of profit to be made on

Bullocks

If you have sheds , would you consider a lightly stocked suckler herd and enter every environment scheme available ?
Go for the simplest low input / low stress method you can because compared to a reasonable job any type of farming leaves a depressing return for the work involved.
For the same reason as above only start a type of farming you like because if you don't like it you're wasting your time doing it for financial reasons.
I think financially you would be aswell off renting it out for a few years

blue5000

freedominacup wrote: »

Crop husbandry is if anything more technically skilled than managing a high output dairy operation. Maybe not the same day to day intensity of dairying but the good operators are constantly monitoring their crops throughout the growing season and timing applications of fert and chems to very fine margins. Tillage done right is not the fire and forget operation you seem to think it is. When a crop is due chems it's due them today not when you're back from travelling for your real job.

You could look at a contract farming option. Maybe look at doing your own ploughing and straw clearance if you want to keep an interest. Tillage farmer/contractor does everything else and supplies sprays . You supply seed, fert and land and split the profits. You get access to his skills and machinery. He is spreading his fixed costs over more acres. He will probably have a far better price on sprays than you will ever get if he's covering reasonable acreage. You both share risks and rewards.

Bullocks wrote: »

If you have sheds , would you consider a lightly stocked suckler herd and enter every environment scheme available ?
Go for the simplest low input / low stress method you can because compared to a reasonable job any type of farming leaves a depressing return for the work involved.
For the same reason as above only start a type of farming you like because if you don't like it you're wasting your time doing it for financial reasons.
I think financially you would be aswell off renting it out for a few years

Combination of these 2, you plough it, do share farming with a contractor, he sows it, sprays it, harvests it and bales it. You provide the land, seed and fertiliser, keep the straw for your livestock so dung goes back to your tillage land. 40 acres of tillage, 40 acres of grass for a small suckler herd, hopefully the old lad will be around a few more years to have an interest. 15-20 cows, AA or HE bull. Just my 2 cents

Gawddawggonnit

cute geoge wrote: »

Thats is very good idea but wondering who owns the straw in that situation because i reckon the straw is where there might just a small bit of profit to be made on

When I was a lad my father said to me that if you're growing cereals for straw then you're at nothing. Same holds true today.
For the loss of p and k, straw should be double the price it is now.

kowtow

K.G. wrote: »

Maybe im missing something but when do you plan to do the work.field work tends to be done in weather windows and all has to be done when it needs to be done.every saturday aint going to be suitable

My thought exactly.

You might be a long time waiting for a "spraying sunday"

kowtow

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

When I was a lad my father said to me that if you're growing cereals for straw then you're at nothing. Same holds true today.
For the loss of p and k, straw should be double the price it is now.

Not many free lunches, but another man's fertility for sale at twelve quid a bale always puts a smile on my face.

Floki

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

When I was a lad my father said to me that if you're growing cereals for straw then you're at nothing. Same holds true today.
For the loss of p and k, straw should be double the price it is now.

Most of the p and k transfers to the grain not the straw.

aidanki

Is the land suitable for grain, I know someone with wet ground cant cut grain at the min, TBH its rather wet in a good year, never mind at the minute

Waffletraktor

kowtow wrote: »

My thought exactly.

You might be a long time waiting for a "spraying sunday"

You would be supprised about the no. of spray hours there are in a day, mostly in early morning from 4am+. Not un common to be going at dawn and bowser out with 1st load an hour or so after when need to 'get on'. Led lights down the boom for spary pattern are a help.

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

When I was a lad my father said to me that if you're growing cereals for straw then you're at nothing. Same holds true today.
For the loss of p and k, straw should be double the price it is now.

I would say the only thing you want to know about straw is when the stock farmer has delivered you back all their dung for the year. Otherwise i hear good things about wood chips for bedding!

GrasstoMilk

Waffletraktor wrote: »

You would be supprised about the no. of spray hours there are in a day, mostly in early morning from 4am+. Not un common to be going at dawn and bowser out with 1st load an hour or so after when need to 'get on'. Led lights down the boom for spary pattern are a help.

I would say the only thing you want to know about straw is when the stock farmer has delivered you back all their dung for the year. Otherwise i hear good things about wood chips for bedding!

Offered Local big guy dung for straw, wasn't overly interested.

The part time boy

Speaking as a former tillage farmer here.

Your plan there wont work Unless u can take time of your work when needed at drop of a hat .

The window for planting spraying and cutting is very narrow . Your going to be growing noghing but weeds if u are going to be looking out of your office At the fine morning hoping it wont rain that evening hoping you can spray something before 2nd leaf stage. Growing grain not easy most of the time never mind doing it in weekends and evening .

Going to be frank and say forget that totally

The only way to work it is to contract out everything . The only job you could manage part time is plouging as your weather window is not as tight.

There a guy around here with a job who grows grain . Gets contrator to do everything. His doing it 20 years so i presume his not losing money but might not making a lot either .

If you have sheds draw all the straw in and sell it out of sheds in the winter. Or even buy a bail trailer and deliver it at weekends . Put your time and money into the straw

Bass Reeves

What sort of beef stock have do you deal in. Are you making money at it.

Floki

Floki wrote: »

Most of the p and k transfers to the grain not the straw.

Roughly I think 80 or 85% of the p and k in the plant is in the mature hardened grain.

The ultimate recycling would be to have the user of the grain (pigs, poultry, maybe even humans ) waste spread back on the growing land plus benefits (at it again) of more diverse bacteria that conventional tillage does a good job of killing.

Bass Reeves

OP I had not read enough of the thread before I replied above. If you cannot manage drystock with your job it is unlikely you can do tillage profitably. This idea you can spray at weekends or evenings will not work. I often spend a week looking for a good spraying window either to spray off a paddock or to spray a reseed. Farm is 10 miles away, yours is 20 from you, while weather might be perfect at your house it might be too windy at the farm etc, etc.

If you cannot contract out the whole I forget about it. Unless you are willing to move onto the farm and move house framing in your case is not really an option. If you were 10-12 miles nearer it would be if you could get a lad to look after them at when you were away. Renting the place is the only viable option.

However I imagine that your parents are against this as they live on the place. In reality the most viable option is a share milking scheme if the land was in one block but it may be split in more than one parcel. In reality leasing or selling is the only viable option.

MF290

A lot of people mentioning that contractors are the solution to getting work done in a narrow time frame. The contractors themselves are going to be farming or contracting a lot more acres or at silage, slurry etc.. and will be difficult get when you want them.

larthehar

I can be done but won.t be easy.. i agree that spraying windows are tight and you will have to do it as soon as you can.. i don.t know where you are based but if it is on wet and windy territory i wouldn.t advise it.. if it is a dry sheltered region then worth a try.. you could always go the contractor route in year one and take it from there.. or you are happy.. just plough on! You will be doing a lot of late nights and long weekends and it is not for the faint hearted..

The part time boy

That a valid enough point but u need to pick the right contractor .

The fella near me uses differant contractor for each job. Fella that cuts the grain does not have much grain . Fella that sprays does not have grain himself so his able to come when needed.

This fella grows good grain and his normal the first fella around to set and cut around here.

When i used to be at grain i used to get contractor to set and cut . Never had a problem getting them when i needed them. They would stop working at there own stuff to come to me. A contrator would have to do that to keep the job .

I do know another fella who could do it but he cut his own first . Hense why he gets very little to none hire work

Waffletraktor

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Offered Local big guy dung for straw, wasn't overly interested.

His loss.

Bass Reeves

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Offered Local big guy dung for straw, wasn't overly interested.

Waffletraktor wrote: »

His loss.

It is all subjective. First take the value of the straw at 10 ish/bale. Add in the cost of drawing and spreading the Dung. You would have the P&K replaced with artificial fertlizer for that money and maybe a bit in the pocket as well. In lots of cases cost of spreading organic fertlizer is break even with artifical. If adding a journey to spreading distance and trading straw it would be a loss making venture.

As well Organic manure has to well rotted and has to be ploughed in to tillage ground. While it will add organic matter to soil the fertlizer value is varible depending on what it was used for.

Gawddawggonnit

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It is all subjective. First take the value of the straw at 10 ish/bale. Add in the cost of drawing and spreading the Dung. You would have the P&K replaced with artificial fertlizer for that money and maybe a bit in the pocket as well. In lots of cases cost of spreading organic fertlizer is break even with artifical. If adding a journey to spreading distance and trading straw it would be a loss making venture.

As well Organic manure has to well rotted and has to be ploughed in to tillage ground. While it will add organic matter to soil the fertlizer value is varible depending on what it was used for.

No and no Bass.

Only fertiliser salesmen will try and compare artificial fertiliser and organic manure.

Fym does not need to be ploughed in...

Waffletraktor

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It is all subjective. First take the value of the straw at 10 ish/bale. Add in the cost of drawing and spreading the Dung. You would have the P&K replaced with artificial fertlizer for that money and maybe a bit in the pocket as well. In lots of cases cost of spreading organic fertlizer is break even with artifical. If adding a journey to spreading distance and trading straw it would be a loss making venture.

As well Organic manure has to well rotted and has to be ploughed in to tillage ground. While it will add organic matter to soil the fertlizer value is varible depending on what it was used for.

We don't plough arable ground us costs too much on the clay land(rest is no-til) and only hides bad practice, we do let a student loose turning with a digger though when the heaps vary from between 50and 85 degrees. Spread it on milling wheats in late winter as an early N.
It suits us to send out barley and oaten straw with some wheat, get bio-solids(sludge), green waste compost which we might mix in some kalphos or fibrophos in with on the heap. Plenty of lorries looking for work around here from bulkers to 'wagon and drags'.

Gawddawggonnit

Waffletraktor wrote: »

We don't plough arable ground us costs too much on the clay land(rest is no-til) and only hides bad practice, we do let a student loose turning with a digger though when the heaps vary from between 50and 85 degrees. Spread it on milling wheats in late winter as an early N.
It suits us to send out barley and oaten straw with some wheat, get bio-solids(sludge), green waste compost which we might mix in some kalphos or fibrophos in with on the heap. Plenty of lorries looking for work around here from bulkers to 'wagon and drags'.

There's a lad that does the rounds here with one of those yokies for turning fym that you'd see in mushroom compostors. At €90/hr he can turn a helluva lot in a day. You're very scientific with temps...our guy just turns it whenever he's passing.
I supply turkey and chicken houses with chopped straw and the litter is returned. It only costs a Euro a bale extra for the Baler to chop.

I've three spreaders going here this week to try and make a start on osr.

Waffletraktor

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Waffletraktor wrote: »

We don't plough arable ground us costs too much on the clay land(rest is no-til) and only hides bad practice, we do let a student loose turning with a digger though when the heaps vary from between 50and 85 degrees. Spread it on milling wheats in late winter as an early N.
It suits us to send out barley and oaten straw with some wheat, get bio-solids(sludge), green waste compost which we might mix in some kalphos or fibrophos in with on the heap. Plenty of lorries looking for work around here from bulkers to 'wagon and drags'.

There's a lad that does the rounds here with one of those yokies for turning fym that you'd see in mushroom compostors. At €90/hr he can turn a helluva lot in a day. You're very scientific with temps...our guy just turns it whenever he's passing.
I supply turkey and chicken houses with chopped straw and the litter is returned. It only costs a Euro a bale extra for the Baler to chop.

I've three spreaders going here this week to try and make a start on osr.

When it gets too hot it will effect the bugs doing the work and when it gets cold their running out of O2. Want to cook any weed seeds.

Gawddawggonnit

Waffletraktor wrote: »

When it gets too hot it will effect the bugs doing the work and when it gets cold their running out of O2. Want to cook any weed seeds.

Thanks. Useful information.


What post and pre emerge herbicides do you use on osr?

Waffletraktor

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Thanks. Useful information.


What post and pre emerge herbicides do you use on osr?

Will go at a full rate on headlands and areas known to be 'weedy'. Combine drivers can mark it in when cutting for the next time. Also to do with managing not putting ruts in before spring, so work to be lighter on wet tramlines but unless it has a helium ballon attachment it'll never be 100%.

Waffletraktor

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Will go at a full rate on headlands and areas known to be 'weedy'. Combine drivers can mark it in when cutting for the next time. Also to do with managing not putting ruts in before spring, so work to be lighter on wet tramlines but unless it has a helium ballon attachment it'll never be 100%.

We put pellets down a day or 2 post drilling and then fire brigade runs before it gets to being a problem, so needs to be checked at least every 2 days for next month as it's wet ATM here. Last drilled stuff just coming and early is away. Some flea beetles about but pointless to spray as it's being used on them for the last 30 years and they laugh at it now really. Just as a fire brigade run really.
There was a serious sense of humour malfunction when someone decided to use a quadie rather than a hire tractor(no gps you see) to roll the last of the heavy land stuff. Inherited the gator, ok an a cold day otherwise a sauna.
To add we use the centurion for bad patches of BG in spring otherwise glyphosate is the tool of choice. Mix and match the rest to the season but ideal do a post em tight to emergence and then leave til march.

Waffletraktor

Looking at osr earlier with the mini assistant.
Difference in early sowing vs late is alot this year, not too worried for later stuff. YET.

GoingForIt

The part time boy wrote: »

Speaking as a former tillage farmer here.

Your plan there wont work Unless u can take time of your work when needed at drop of a hat .

The window for planting spraying and cutting is very narrow . Your going to be growing noghing but weeds if u are going to be looking out of your office At the fine morning hoping it wont rain that evening hoping you can spray something before 2nd leaf stage. Growing grain not easy most of the time never mind doing it in weekends and evening .

Going to be frank and say forget that totally

The only way to work it is to contract out everything . The only job you could manage part time is plouging as your weather window is not as tight.

There a guy around here with a job who grows grain . Gets contrator to do everything. His doing it 20 years so i presume his not losing money but might not making a lot either .

If you have sheds draw all the straw in and sell it out of sheds in the winter. Or even buy a bail trailer and deliver it at weekends . Put your time and money into the straw

Thanks for this reply.

just to let everyone know, i had to travel to US for 2 weeks, hence.....busy with work.......my whole predicament.

but based on your experience as someone in tillage, if I
- ploughed
- sowed
- baled straw
- sold straw

contract out:
- spraying
- harvesting

what would i have per acre out of it????

GoingForIt

Bass Reeves wrote: »

What sort of beef stock have do you deal in. Are you making money at it.

we buy at 450kg and finish to factory.

on average, we would make ~170 per animal, with about 60 animals per year

so, the returns are ok for what i want out of it, but i am just back from 2 weeks in US, and my dad looked after everything......long term, this is not an option

GoingForIt

Bass Reeves wrote: »

OP I had not read enough of the thread before I replied above. If you cannot manage drystock with your job it is unlikely you can do tillage profitably. This idea you can spray at weekends or evenings will not work. I often spend a week looking for a good spraying window either to spray off a paddock or to spray a reseed. Farm is 10 miles away, yours is 20 from you, while weather might be perfect at your house it might be too windy at the farm etc, etc.

If you cannot contract out the whole I forget about it. Unless you are willing to move onto the farm and move house framing in your case is not really an option. If you were 10-12 miles nearer it would be if you could get a lad to look after them at when you were away. Renting the place is the only viable option.

However I imagine that your parents are against this as they live on the place. In reality the most viable option is a share milking scheme if the land was in one block but it may be split in more than one parcel. In reality leasing or selling is the only viable option.

i agree.......

the idea behind me ploughing, sowing and baling is that by and large their will be a big enough time window to do this.

spraying and harvesting definitely best to contract out