Unlimited Broadband - Why do you push this message but yet cap at 1TB

raydator

eir: Adam wrote: »

raydator wrote: »

eir: Adam wrote: »

raydator wrote: »

These responses are an absolute joke! "nobody would be able to give you more information on this".

So "absolutely no usage limit" is placed on your advert/website and approved by someone in Eir, but yet nobody in Eir would be able to provide more information on the statement.

Sorry I can't give you more information here, Ray. If you go onto our website, you can see that our usage policy is stated on our main page for broadband as well as in the terms and conditions.

https://www.eir.ie/broadband/

If you scroll to the bottom of this page and click on 'Products explained - broadband & phone' you should be able to see where this is outlined.

- Adam

Let break this down from the link you provided!.

See highlighted.


Now, "scroll to the bottom of this page and click on 'Products explained"

Unlimited broadband means you and your whole family can shop, stream and download as much as you like and not worry about exceeding a usage limit. Subject to a fair usage cap, don’t worry the usage cap will cover even the largest family.

"as much as you like and not worry about exceeding a usage limit" But yet the very next line Subject to a fair usage cap!. 

What formula did you use to calculate the cap to cover even the "largest family"

Where customer usage exceeds the specified monthly download/upload limit appropriate to the customer's chosen level, the company reserves the right to charge the customer for the excess use or to request the customer to select a more appropriate level. In the event of a customer refusing or neglecting to select an appropriate level, eir may upon due notice terminate the provision of the facility to the customer. 


OK, so what are the more appropriate levels?

A more appropriate level for the 1000MB Extreme has to be greater than 1TB for my current/projected usage.

So what more appropriate levels can I select from?

I'm afraid there are no more levels of broadband allowance available to you as you are receiving our maximum broadband allowance.

This is in place for customers who are availing of our 30GB broadband plan. This plan is not available to order anymore, however, some customers are still on this package from when it was available.  All of the plans that are available to order now have a 1TB usage limit. 

- Adam

Adam,

How can you tell customers "as much as you like and not worry about exceeding a usage limit", when clearly customers are worried? 
I am worried and many of the posters here are worried!

eir: Adam

raydator wrote: »

eir: Adam wrote: »

raydator wrote: »

eir: Adam wrote: »

raydator wrote: »

These responses are an absolute joke! "nobody would be able to give you more information on this".

So "absolutely no usage limit" is placed on your advert/website and approved by someone in Eir, but yet nobody in Eir would be able to provide more information on the statement.

Sorry I can't give you more information here, Ray. If you go onto our website, you can see that our usage policy is stated on our main page for broadband as well as in the terms and conditions.

https://www.eir.ie/broadband/

If you scroll to the bottom of this page and click on 'Products explained - broadband & phone' you should be able to see where this is outlined.

- Adam

Let break this down from the link you provided!.

See highlighted.


Now, "scroll to the bottom of this page and click on 'Products explained"

Unlimited broadband means you and your whole family can shop, stream and download as much as you like and not worry about exceeding a usage limit. Subject to a fair usage cap, don’t worry the usage cap will cover even the largest family.

"as much as you like and not worry about exceeding a usage limit" But yet the very next line Subject to a fair usage cap!. 

What formula did you use to calculate the cap to cover even the "largest family"

Where customer usage exceeds the specified monthly download/upload limit appropriate to the customer's chosen level, the company reserves the right to charge the customer for the excess use or to request the customer to select a more appropriate level. In the event of a customer refusing or neglecting to select an appropriate level, eir may upon due notice terminate the provision of the facility to the customer. 


OK, so what are the more appropriate levels?

A more appropriate level for the 1000MB Extreme has to be greater than 1TB for my current/projected usage.

So what more appropriate levels can I select from?

I'm afraid there are no more levels of broadband allowance available to you as you are receiving our maximum broadband allowance.

This is in place for customers who are availing of our 30GB broadband plan. This plan is not available to order anymore, however, some customers are still on this package from when it was available.  All of the plans that are available to order now have a 1TB usage limit. 

- Adam

Adam,

How can you tell customers "as much as you like and not worry about exceeding a usage limit", when clearly customers are worried? 
I am worried and many of the posters here are worried!

Hi Ray,

The reason that this wording is used on our website is that the majority of our customers do not exceed our fair usage limit.

- Adam

Tzardine

eir: Adam wrote: »

Hi Ray,

The reason that this wording is used on our website is that the majority of our customers do not exceed our fair usage limit.

- Adam

Just because you can advertise the product as unlimited under the 1% rule does not mean that you should.

Its a pretty ****ty practice.

Doctor Jimbob

eir: Adam wrote: »

Hi Ray,

The reason that this wording is used on our website is that the majority of our customers do not exceed our fair usage limit.

- Adam

Is that the official eir line? Lying is grand because most people won't notice anyway?

raydator

Adam,
 
Eir love using * to denote a comment in relation to a product/service/fee, however, I have looked all over your website and it does not use the * on the statement "as much as you like and not worry about exceeding a usage limit" . 

Therefore, you are not employing (*) "the majority of our customers do not exceed our fair usage limit." when it comes to the "as much as you like and not worry about exceeding a usage limit" .  statement

Eir must send their rep staff on a course to teach them a way to respond to questions without actually answering the questions.

Who do I raise the issue with around the 1TB FUP within Eir? Surely there is someone who I can speak to other than a rep?

PAKNET

Can I ask a different question?

If I am happy to pay the €100 overage for going over my unlimited broadband's limit, does this therefore mean I am free to utilise the entire 1Gbps/100Mbps bandwidth of my line non-stop, 24/7/365 and Eir is happy with that? After all it is unlimited!

I mean, I suppose 300TB of download and 30TB of upload usage a month isn't too bad for €195 a month when you think about it? Right?

raydator

PAKNET wrote: »

Can I ask a different question?

If I am happy to pay the €100 overage for going over my unlimited broadband's limit, does this therefore mean I am free to utilise the entire 1Gbps/100Mbps bandwidth of my line non-stop, 24/7/365 and Eir is happy with that? After all it is unlimited!

I mean, I suppose 300TB of download and 30TB of upload usage a month isn't too bad for €195 a month when you think about it? Right?

That's a fecking car repayment (well for me at least), but I guess the entire 1Gbps/100Mbps bandwidth non-stop, 24/7/365  its one way to look at it, then €195 is not that bad.

Odyssey 2005

Wish I had a car repayment like that

raydator

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Wish I had a car repayment like that

Monthly repayment: €190.00
Loan amount:€2,193
Interest rate:7.5%
Term:12 months
Cost of Credit:€87.11

Just in case you think it's for a big price tagged car! even if it's a little bit off topic.

georgewickstaff

Ok so I have read 10 pages of moaning and trying to be clever with the Eir reps. We all know they are not policy makers and they are presumably drip fed the responses by their supervisors who never have to face the wrath of the customers.

So with that in mind, what are you all going to do given that most of you are going round and round in circles?

The petition is a good idea. I signed it.

Has anyone written to the Eir CEO? Has anyone written to their local TD? Has anyone braved taking on Eir on the radio about this issue? Letter to Irish Times?

By this time next week this thread could be 40 pages. What I'd like to see is a thoughtful and well directed approach to someone who can actually help. What I don't want to see is a bunch of "clever clogs" trying to best a junior member of the Eir staff on a moderately popular internet forum.

Put your thinking caps on.

With every good wish
GW

raydator

georgewickstaff wrote: »

Ok so I have read 10 pages of moaning and trying to be clever with the Eir reps. We all know they are not policy makers and they are presumably drip fed the responses by their supervisors who never have to face the wrath of the customers.

So with that in mind, what are you all going to do given that most of you are going round and round in circles?

The petition is a good idea. I signed it.

Has anyone written to the Eir CEO? Has anyone written to their local TD? Has anyone braved taking on Eir on the radio about this issue? Letter to Irish Times?

By this time next week this thread could be 40 pages. What I'd like to see is a thoughtful and well directed approach to someone who can actually help. What I don't want to see is a bunch of "clever clogs" trying to best a junior member of the Eir staff on a moderately popular internet forum.

Put your thinking caps on.

With every good wish
GW

I have contacted Liveline and have a pending response(received first response already) from The Advertising Standards Authority for Ireland. 

georgewickstaff

Excellent. Very well done. I hope the advertising agency respond asap.

Best wishes

flaneur

It shouldn’t be allowed. End of story.

If you can’t be upfront and honest about your products and services, it comes across like you’re trying to pull a fast one.

Unlimited should mean unlimited.

Also 1TB on 100Mbits/ or even worse, on 1Gbit/s connections is absolutely not a huge allowance and as the amount of HD, UHD and other data-heavy content increases, those limits will be gobbled up.

I appreciate that you need to be able to cap huge data users, but there’s still no reason why you or any other company should be advertising “Unlimited” when it’s very clearly limited.

irishgrover

raydator wrote: »

georgewickstaff wrote: »

Ok so I have read 10 pages of moaning and trying to be clever with the Eir reps. We all know they are not policy makers and they are presumably drip fed the responses by their supervisors who never have to face the wrath of the customers.

So with that in mind, what are you all going to do given that most of you are going round and round in circles?

The petition is a good idea. I signed it.

Has anyone written to the Eir CEO? Has anyone written to their local TD? Has anyone braved taking on Eir on the radio about this issue? Letter to Irish Times?

By this time next week this thread could be 40 pages. What I'd like to see is a thoughtful and well directed approach to someone who can actually help. What I don't want to see is a bunch of "clever clogs" trying to best a junior member of the Eir staff on a moderately popular internet forum.

Put your thinking caps on.

With every good wish
GW

I have contacted Liveline and have a pending response(received first response already) from The Advertising Standards Authority for Ireland. 

regarding the Advertising Standards Authority - they are the must inept, amateur, blinkered self regulatory body in the country.... They will ignore their own charter as long as there is something buried in Eir's T's&C's.......... however the latest blatant misspelling and lying by "Absolutely no usage limits" Eir might actually force them into action...probably not though.... 

flaneur

This really needs to be dealt with by ComReg or legislation.
It’s completely misleading.

Doctor Jimbob

georgewickstaff wrote: »

Ok so I have read 10 pages of moaning and trying to be clever with the Eir reps. We all know they are not policy makers and they are presumably drip fed the responses by their supervisors who never have to face the wrath of the customers.

So with that in mind, what are you all going to do given that most of you are going round and round in circles?

The petition is a good idea. I signed it.

Has anyone written to the Eir CEO? Has anyone written to their local TD? Has anyone braved taking on Eir on the radio about this issue? Letter to Irish Times?

By this time next week this thread could be 40 pages. What I'd like to see is a thoughtful and well directed approach to someone who can actually help. What I don't want to see is a bunch of "clever clogs" trying to best a junior member of the Eir staff on a moderately popular internet forum.

Put your thinking caps on.

With every good wish
GW

It appears you haven't done much yourself other than sign the petition, something I would imagine most of the other contributors to this thread have also done.

It's not about trying to best a junior eir rep, it's about calling out eir's cop out responses. I really don't see the harm in doing that in an area where it's going to get some extra visibility. Not everyone listens to the radio or reads the Irish times. It should be brought up through those as well obviously, but I don't see the harm in pursuing it on here as well.

There's a stickied post on here (which is rather laughably now locked) describing the fact that this forum is here to allow for increased transparency between eir and it's customers. The more eir's responses are questioned, the more likely someone with the ability to do something will take note.

CoM1993

Is there an actual limit on the amount of download/upload you can use after you exceed 1tb? Because, if not, that would technically be unlimited, no? The advertising is morally wrong but technically correct, really you should check the terms and conditions before you buy into something like this

Seth Brundle

CoM1993 wrote: »

Is there an actual limit on the amount of download/upload you can use after you exceed 1tb? Because, if not, that would technically be unlimited, no? The advertising is morally wrong but technically correct, really you should check the terms and conditions before you buy into something like this

There is a limit on what your monthly payment will allow. Exceeding this limit incurs additional charges.
...which makes it "limited", not "unlimited"!

CoM1993

kbannon wrote: »

There is a limit on what your monthly payment will allow. Exceeding this limit incurs additional charges.
...which makes it "limited", not "unlimited"!

I know that and that isn't what I asked. What I'm asking is once you reach that limit (in this case, the 1tb fair usage cap) are there any other limits? If there isn't and they allow you to pay to use whatever you want, then that would be unlimited.

MajesticDonkey

I would agree with CoM1993 on this. What eir is doing here is almost certainly legally correct (not that I agree with it).

georgewickstaff

Doctor Jimbob wrote:

It appears you haven't done much yourself other than sign the petition, something I would imagine most of the other contributors to this thread have also done.

I'm not an Eir customer. I do think it is sneaky what they are doing though. I can only dream about speeds you guys are getting. However, I think it is a huge waste of time to be clever dicking junior Eir staff on a moderately popular message board. It's not calling out Eir at all.

Best wishes

raydator

CoM1993 wrote: »

kbannon wrote: »

There is a limit on what your monthly payment will allow. Exceeding this limit incurs additional charges.
...which makes it "limited", not "unlimited"!

I know that and that isn't what I asked. What I'm asking is once you reach that limit (in this case, the 1tb fair usage cap) are there any other limits? If there isn't and they allow you to pay to use whatever you want, then that would be unlimited.

The term "Absolutely no usage limits" implies that there is no restriction.
By putting a fair usage of 1TB, you are restricting customers from exceeding the 1TB if they do not wish to be charged additional fees. This, therefore, impeeds my ability to use the "Absolutely no usage limits" aspect of this service.

Digital Solitude

CoM1993 wrote: »

I know that and that isn't what I asked. What I'm asking is once you reach that limit (in this case, the 1tb fair usage cap) are there any other limits? If there isn't and they allow you to pay to use whatever you want, then that would be unlimited.

Most data plans, mobile or home have unlimited usage by this definition then

Paulmc.

Hey folks, atm I have 15mb satellite bb with a 30gb limit lol. I've never went over that 30gb limit once yet. 
But, I was due for an Eir ftth installation today which was cancelled for reasons beyond my control. My worry now after reading this thread is, will my usage go up in the moon for no apparent reason?, as I've read on here one persons usage went up from 300gb to 750gb over night with no activity! 
I would also agree that this issue needs to go higher, as the reps from Eir are doing exactly as trained & most likely reading they're answers from a script or being prompted by a supervisor. I doubt any senior member of Eir would put themselves in the firing line on here & actually give a constructive answer. Petition signed & will spread the word.
I'm wondering now should I be looking elsewhere for my bb.

Seth Brundle

Paulmc. wrote: »

I would also agree that this issue needs to go higher, as the reps from Eir are doing exactly as trained & most likely reading they're answers from a script or being prompted by a supervisor. I doubt any senior member of Eir would put themselves in the firing line on here & actually give a constructive answer. Petition signed & will spread the word.

No offence but don't be naive.
Eir have never cared about their customers and I see no reason why they would suddenly change over a few high usage customers. You are nothing more than a minor inconvenience and your concerns won't make it beyond the "customer support" team.
I don't believe that a petition will have any impact. Don't get me wrong: good luck with it but I really don't see them changing their ways unless they are forced to!

Digital Solitude

Paulmc. wrote: »

Hey folks, atm I have 15mb satellite bb with a 30gb limit lol. I've never went over that 30gb limit once yet. 
But, I was due for an Eir ftth installation today which was cancelled for reasons beyond my control. My worry now after reading this thread is, will my usage go up in the moon for no apparent reason?, as I've read on here one persons usage went up from 300gb to 750gb over night with no activity! 
I would also agree that this issue needs to go higher, as the reps from Eir are doing exactly as trained & most likely reading they're answers from a script or being prompted by a supervisor. I doubt any senior member of Eir would put themselves in the firing line on here & actually give a constructive answer. Petition signed & will spread the word.
I'm wondering now should I be looking elsewhere for my bb.

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057756687/4/#post104610307

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057783856/1/#post104587453

Yes, yes you should

Paulmc.

kbannon wrote:

No offence but don't be naive. Eir have never cared about their customers and I see no reason why they would suddenly change over a few high usage customers. You are nothing more than a minor inconvenience and your concerns won't make it beyond the "customer support" team. I don't believe that a petition will have any impact. Don't get me wrong: good luck with it but I really don't see them changing their ways unless they are forced to!

No offence taken bud, just trying to support the folks on boards & have a vested interest also in this thread. Maybe the petition will help, maybe it won't, but surely worth a shot, nothing ventured an all that

chris_ie

CoM1993 wrote: »

Is there an actual limit on the amount of download/upload you can use after you exceed 1tb? Because, if not, that would technically be unlimited, no? The advertising is morally wrong but technically correct, really you should check the terms and conditions before you buy into something like this

I get what you are saying but I don't agree. You are paying the monthly fee based on what is advertised as unlimited. They are advertising that, for that specific amount per month, you get unlimited broadband. This is not true. If you want unlimited, in the way you specify, you need to pay up to €100 extra. So by your logic they should be advertising unlimited for the the normal monthly price plus €100.

If you paid to hire a car for a week for €200 and were told you could drive it as much as you want. Would you be happy if they turned around when you hit 100miles that from then on you will pay €20 per 50miles extra. Yeah sure you can still drive it as much as you want but that's not what you bought.

It's true that people should always read the T&C but for these kind of things you shouldn't have to check T&C to see if they are saying the opposite of the large ads. It's false advertising. Many people don't have much of a choice when it comes to BB otherwise many would choose someone else.

I do think it's early days and the FUP will change. But they should not be allowed advertise as unlimited. It should be "Up to 1TB"

alexonhisown

Thankfully im not with eir, was thinking of switching to them, deffo wont be now.
There seems to be something wrong with their data use calculations.
I am with virgin and since 21st august we have only used 69gb and there are 3 adults in the house watching netflix etc, the most we have ever used is 450gb

1hnr79jr65

chris_ie wrote: »

It's true that people should always read the T&C but for these kind of things you shouldn't have to check T&C to see if they are saying the opposite of the large ads. It's false advertising. Many people don't have much of a choice when it comes to BB otherwise many would choose someone else.

I do think it's early days and the FUP will change. But they should not be allowed advertise as unlimited. It should be "Up to 1TB"

Would you take out a mortgage with TSB, k owing you will get 2% cash back based on their current advertisement campaign with out reading the fine print?

The answer to this is logically a NO unless the person is really clueless about what they getting into or ignorant of the T's & C's.

At the end of the day it does not matter if you are getting a mortgage or car loan or even a phone/fibre contract. You are entering into a LEGALLY BINDING AGREEMENT of which both Eir as a provider and "You" as the consumer/benefited party and have certain responsibilities for.

If the provider does not adhere to the terms of contract such as grossly overcharging and taking money from your account outside of say a system issue, then you have recourse to challenge and get compensated. Equally the consumer/benefited party has a responsibility to understand the terms of the contract and meet their obligations.

These are always found In the terms and conditions section and anyone who does not spend the short while at minimum to quickly go over them, has no one to blame but themselves if they fail to understand consequences of going outside contracted terms.

Also Eir as a provider is not responsible for how customers choose to use their contracted entitlement (within legal obligations) such as Netflix and others streaming services. Again it is the consumer who is at fault for not understanding the effect of using those services and how they may affect current contractual agreements with fibre provider.

At the end of the day it's the consumers responsibilty to educate themselves on what they getting involved with.

And I have no sympathy for anyone here complaining if they have not done anything for themselves to help them understand their rights and obligations.