Chapter 2 - Finding Nemo

hot buttered scones

Great week there - every time I look your getting faster! Glad to see things are going well for you.

Swashbuckler

hot buttered scones wrote:

Great week there - every time I look your getting faster! Glad to see things are going well for you.

Cheers man. It's been a good year. I've been very lucky. Good to see you on the comeback trail.

skyblue46

Is there a target race any time soon P or is this block of training simply about improving yourself as an athlete?

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote:

Is there a target race any time soon P or is this block of training simply about improving yourself as an athlete?

There is Charleville HM coming up in September which is definitely a race of interest. I have a five miler in two weeks but that's more to hook in with the club lads. So Charleville is the reason you're seeing a bit more chunky LT/tempo sessions.
But even Charleville aside, given the block of speedy stuff I've put down in May/June/July it's probably the right time to move to the other side of the seesaw and put some focus on the endurance/strength end.

AuldManKing

Super week there!

eyrie

Swashbuckler wrote: »

typical me being me I had a little negotiation with myself. OK Paul you can keep it on the flat today but as a compromise from miles 10 to 15 you need to do laps of the mobile homes site and pass your bed 7 times and keep going. A mental test so to speak.

You're a gas man. You don't like making things easy for yourself do you?
A great week there, well done!

Swashbuckler

eyrie wrote:

You're a gas man. You don't like making things easy for yourself do you? A great week there, well done!

Haha nope. I dunno what it is. Maybe a fear if I start taking the easy way out it could become a habit.

Swashbuckler

Been feeling a slight niggle the last few days. Can't say its even a niggle at this stage but the outer part of my left foot is a little tender..seems to loosen out when i run but the last couple of mornings I've noticed it when I get up...If i was to pinpoint it I'd say directly below my ankle on the lateral edge of my foot. Does anyone have any experience of this? I'm ultra paranoid given my buddy has plantar and has been out for months.

ariana`

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Been feeling a slight niggle the last few days. Can't say its even a niggle at this stage but the outer part of my left foot is a little tender..seems to loosen out when i run but the last couple of mornings I've noticed it when I get up...If i was to pinpoint it I'd say directly below my ankle on the lateral edge of my foot. Does anyone have any experience of this? I'm ultra paranoid given my buddy has plantar and has been out for months.

I had a pain/niggle that sounds similar last year. In my case it ended up being the peroneals which caused the niggle, the peroneals goes from the outside of your heel right up the outside of your calf. It was fine when i was running but a bit sore/tender first thing in the morning to walk on and at random other times when i walked on it. I went to the physio eventually and when he worked on the peroneals up into my calf they were rightly sore but i hadn't noticed this at all. It's an area i roll ever since myself with a small ball (golf, tennis or baseball). Obviously none of us can give you medical advice so i'm just sharing my experience but maybe you should see a phsyio - even if it's nothing it might be no harm to get the legs rubbed out anyhow now that you're chasing Scullion you need to be in tip top shape

Duanington

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Been feeling a slight niggle the last few days. Can't say its even a niggle at this stage but the outer part of my left foot is a little tender..seems to loosen out when i run but the last couple of mornings I've noticed it when I get up...If i was to pinpoint it I'd say directly below my ankle on the lateral edge of my foot. Does anyone have any experience of this? I'm ultra paranoid given my buddy has plantar and has been out for months.

Sounds like a regular morning in my world !!

It isn't unusual to get that kind of thing as you ramp up the miles, P - once its loosening out throughout the day I don't think you've much to worry about. L is also a physio by the way so he'll be able to give you some stretches to keep it under control.
I've any amount of aches in my feet in the mornings any time I ramp the miles up too though, if that makes you feel any better?!

Swashbuckler

ariana` wrote: »

I had a pain/niggle that sounds similar last year. In my case it ended up being the peroneals which caused the niggle, the peroneals goes from the outside of your heel right up the outside of your calf. It was fine when i was running but a bit sore/tender first thing in the morning to walk on and at random other times when i walked on it. I went to the physio eventually and when he worked on the peroneals up into my calf they were rightly sore but i hadn't noticed this at all. It's an area i roll ever since myself with a small ball (golf, tennis or baseball). Obviously none of us can give you medical advice so i'm just sharing my experience but maybe you should see a phsyio - even if it's nothing it might be no harm to get the legs rubbed out anyhow now that you're chasing Scullion you need to be in tip top shape

Haha. Scullion won't know what hit him when I kick.....

I had a google and the peroneals sounds like the exact area. I'm not overly concerned but like I said, ultra paranoid given what happened my buddy whos been out of action since January. I have a roller at home which i never use. Might give the calves a roll tonight. Thanks E.

Swashbuckler

Duanington wrote: »

Sounds like a regular morning in my world !!

It isn't unusual to get that kind of thing as you ramp up the miles, P - once its loosening out throughout the day I don't think you've much to worry about. L is also a physio by the way so he'll be able to give you some stretches to keep it under control.
I've any amount of aches in my feet in the mornings any time I ramp the miles up too though, if that makes you feel any better?!

Haha it does make me feel better. I reckon me and you have similar history when it comes to ankle damage so I'm conscious it might be that combined with the bump in mileage. Although when I was running stupidly last year before L came on the scene I can't say I ever felt ankle niggles - although I wasn't anywhere near 60 miles if I remember correctly. Cheers for the reply.

Duanington

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Haha it does make me feel better. I reckon me and you have similar history when it comes to ankle damage so I'm conscious it might be that combined with the bump in mileage. Although when I was running stupidly last year before L came on the scene I can't say I ever felt ankle niggles - although I wasn't anywhere near 60 miles if I remember correctly. Cheers for the reply.

Wear and tear is all part of it I suppose, managing that wear and tear correctly is probably not as much a part of it as it should be (in my case anyway)
Yep, plenty of blue balloon-like ankles back in the day here too :pac:

AuldManKing

Hows the runners - when I need a new pair, that's exactly where I feel it first.
The old golf ball or frozen bottle of water is a good massage technique too.

Duanington

AuldManKing wrote: »

Hows the runners - when I need a new pair, that's exactly where I feel it first.
The old golf ball or frozen bottle of water is a good massage technique too.

Good point actually, I've just ordered a couple of new pairs and the feet have definitely been feeling it more than usual the last few weeks

Swashbuckler

AuldManKing wrote: »

Hows the runners - when I need a new pair, that's exactly where I feel it first.
The old golf ball or frozen bottle of water is a good massage technique too.

That's a good question and I've been thinking about that too. I have a good few pairs on constant rotation. I had felt this a while back when I was using the new Flex RN's during my sessions so thought maybe that was the issue (I think i underpronate slightly on my left foot and there isn't much support in those Flex RN's so I stopped using them for sessions. But lately I'm wondering is it the Dynaflyte's coming to the end of their life. 700 miles on them I think and I have been relying on them for all of my sessions and most long runs.

hot buttered scones

I'd be lucky to get to 700 miles on any pair of running shoes I own. A about 500 is the most and I've binned pairs after 350/400. A pair with 700 on them are usually relegated to every day walking around shoes or recovery runs on grass. All that being we're all different and some seem to be able to get longer out of shoes than others. Also I'd think I'd be worried if I didn't wake up with a niggle at this stage. Your mileage has increased and you've doing more hilly runs than usual. The foam roller is the right job, but it'll hurt if you haven't used it in a while. It might be worth your while getting a sports massage.

Swashbuckler

hot buttered scones wrote: »

I'd be lucky to get to 700 miles on any pair of running shoes I own. A about 500 is the most and I've binned pairs after 350/400. A pair with 700 on them are usually relegated to every day walking around shoes or recovery runs on grass. All that being we're all different and some seem to be able to get longer out of shoes than others. Also I'd think I'd be worried if I didn't wake up with a niggle at this stage. Your mileage has increased and you've doing more hilly runs than usual. The foam roller is the right job, but it'll hurt if you haven't used it in a while. It might be worth your while getting a sports massage.

I'm never a great judge of when a pair needs to be changed to be honest but I've pretty much decided that Dynaflyte pair probably need to go and i'll start breaking in my Saucony's as my new "session" shoe. A sad day, I liked those Dynaflytes!

Swashbuckler

Another fine week. This is my first proper HM block with L and I have to say it's tough but I'm enjoying it. I've put in a tough few months between the shorter stuff and now leaning more towards the strength LT stuff for Charleville. Learning a lot about what I enjoy about running. I think I may end up being a better HM/10 mile runner than a 5k/10k guy but time will tell I guess.

Monday - Easy 7M at 8.07
Was starting to feel the legs come back a bit after a really tough week last week. The day off on Sunday really helped. Felt OK on this run and finished up with some strides. As mentioned previously the "niggle" was there. I'll mention more about that later.

Tuesday - I had pre-planned with L that this would be a Club session, my first with the lads. Wanted to touch base with them and introduce myself. As it turned out there was a pretty small turn out. Showed up early and met the gang. Convenient they do Tuesday sessions just up the road from my house. We were instructed the session would be 3x1300/2x1000. I had a clear idea in my mind how I wanted to run these. Hard effort but not all out. Bit gonna be one of those lads with ego trying to race sessions. Also didn't want to blow up on my first session with the crew. Haha.
Took off on our two mile warmup and had some good chats. Some sound lads. Came around to the start point and off we went. Settled into a hard enough pace but comfortable. Found myself third of the group but we were all close enough to each other. Some of the faster lads couldn't make it.
Each set I felt great. Dunno was it the company or what but everything felt easier than usual. Pushed myself a bit more for the 1000m. One thing I will say is the recoveries were a little longer than I'd like but I went with it for this session. I'd imagine some of the faster lads will push on quicker between sets which I prefer. Finished up the last one very strong and happy with my days work. Hung around for some more chats and headed home. Pace for the splits were;
5.45/5.44/5.41
5.32/5.36
Nice to run and ignore the watch and just fall in with what's going on around you. Will link in every now and then but I'm happy for the bulk of my Tuesday stuff to be prescribed by L.

Wednesday - Easy 7M at 8.03
Was surprised I was tired as I felt great all day but as soon as I took off I could feel the session in the legs. Nothing major to report. The foot pain eased after two miles. As the week went on it has pretty much gone but will kee monitoring.

Thursday AM - 4M, PM 7M
AM run was great. I felt super and would've loved to keep going. PM felt great but was a little tired by the end. I like the double days.

Friday - 4k-3k-2k-1k off 3/2/1min
I was a little apprehensive about this given my strength session last week was so hellish. In fairness this was a different type of session. Was at home in the motherland for my dad's birthday so this was run in the wesht of limerick county. Figured out my route after some discussions with Dad and took off. Toughest part of this one was the second half of the 4k and some of the 3k into a strong wind. Had to dial back the pace a tiny bit to account for the effort. Luckily I took a turn to head back towards the village and the rest was run with reasonable crosswind and a little more shade from it. These sessions are tough but I love them. It's a different feeling entirely to the sharp stuff. Definitely more leggy. Landed up home and surprised to see the mother didn't have a roast dinner sitting on the table seeing as she was so concerned about my weight. Haha. I'll never escape that no matter how long I'm running. I'm too skinny it seems. Overall a great session of 9.8 miles including warmup and cooldown. Nice to run in new surroundings. Headed off to kerry for the weekend and see the baba and missus. Lovely heading off on a drive like that after a good run and a strong coffee.

Saturday - Easy 15M at 8.03
Felt pretty goo on this run this morning. Body woke up after a few miles. Big fly flew into my eye after three miles and remained for the rest of the run. Was annoying for a while but accepted I'd have company for the rest of the run and trooped on. Legs were tired by the end. Did the usual tormenting myself passing my mobile home again. Good run. Effort levels were fine.

As for the foot it's progressively got better all week. To be honest it wasn't that bad to begin with but I was being ultra cautious. Got a text from L with some advice. It meant Monday evening was mostly me torturing myself with that awful roller and doing some weird clam type stretches in the sitting room. I'll continue to keep an eye on it but I'm not overly concerned.... Yet...

Been a good week. Feels like preparations are going well for Charleville. Touch wood. I have a five miler next week in Churchtown. The last of the Ballyhoura series. Some of the club lads are supporting it so I said I'd head along. Not really a target race or anything with good to have a crack at another five miler. Feeling the fatigue from the last few months a bit but I have been working hard in terms of training. It'll stand to me. Happy with my consistency.

skyblue46

Really looking forward to following your progress over the next few months as you gradually ease up towards eventually running a proper distance marathon

hot buttered scones

skyblue46 wrote: »

Really looking forward to following your progress over the next few months as you gradually ease up towards eventually running a marathon

Me too.

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote:

Really looking forward to following your progress over the next few months as you gradually ease up towards eventually running a proper distance marathon

Haha straight back to cross country after Charleville!

Swashbuckler

Something I've been pondering lately (and if you're reading this Luke, yes a Strava comment triggered me to ask the folks on here. Haha). Recoveries in a session. What are people's thoughts on how recoveries should be run? Is the goal for all or most sessions to be able to run recoveries at a decent pace or is there a place for literally walking recoveries or does it depend on the specific session? I always take great interest in the splits people run in sessions but most of us rarely, if ever, talk about our recoveries?

Part of the reason for asking is that lately, in the last few months in particular as I've been pushing the envelope with training paces, I have found I walk more recoveries than previously. Thoughts? Is there a general rule or target for recoveries or does it depend on the individual?

Maybe this question belongs in another thread.

healy1835

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Something I've been pondering lately (and if you're reading this Luke, yes a Strava comment triggered me to ask the folks on here. Haha). Recoveries in a session. What are people's thoughts on how recoveries should be run? Is the goal for all or most sessions to be able to run recoveries at a decent pace or is there a place for literally walking recoveries or does it depend on the specific session? I always take great interest in the splits people run in sessions but most of us rarely, if ever, talk about our recoveries?

Part of the reason for asking is that lately, in the last few months in particular as I've been pushing the envelope with training paces, I have found I walk more recoveries than previously. Thoughts? Is there a general rule or target for recoveries or does it depend on the individual?

Maybe this question belongs in another thread.

Mine are always walking or jogging. Usually walking for a session with longer intervals eg. 3x2miles and jogging for say a 20x400m.......I'd get sluggish I think if they were standing recoveries. But as with a lot of my running, I just do what my coach tells me to

OOnegative

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Something I've been pondering lately (and if you're reading this Luke, yes a Strava comment triggered me to ask the folks on here. Haha). Recoveries in a session. What are people's thoughts on how recoveries should be run? Is the goal for all or most sessions to be able to run recoveries at a decent pace or is there a place for literally walking recoveries or does it depend on the specific session? I always take great interest in the splits people run in sessions but most of us rarely, if ever, talk about our recoveries?

Part of the reason for asking is that lately, in the last few months in particular as I've been pushing the envelope with training paces, I have found I walk more recoveries than previously. Thoughts? Is there a general rule or target for recoveries or does it depend on the individual?

Maybe this question belongs in another thread.

Most plans say ‘active recovery’ be that running at a good clip or walking I suppose that’s down to the individual in question. I myself jog(roughly 9-9.30min/mile) to give it a number, for recoveries during a session. As long as it’s active i’d say your doing the right thing.

Kellygirl

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Something I've been pondering lately (and if you're reading this Luke, yes a Strava comment triggered me to ask the folks on here. Haha). Recoveries in a session. What are people's thoughts on how recoveries should be run? Is the goal for all or most sessions to be able to run recoveries at a decent pace or is there a place for literally walking recoveries or does it depend on the specific session? I always take great interest in the splits people run in sessions but most of us rarely, if ever, talk about our recoveries?

Part of the reason for asking is that lately, in the last few months in particular as I've been pushing the envelope with training paces, I have found I walk more recoveries than previously. Thoughts? Is there a general rule or target for recoveries or does it depend on the individual?

Maybe this question belongs in another thread.

Great question and been wondering myself. It’s generally been prescribed for me if it’s a jog so I’ve taken it to be a walk then when it doesn’t say - which is shorter recoveries between longer or faster intervals. I did wonder if I was copping out by walking!

eyrie

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Something I've been pondering lately (and if you're reading this Luke, yes a Strava comment triggered me to ask the folks on here. Haha). Recoveries in a session. What are people's thoughts on how recoveries should be run? Is the goal for all or most sessions to be able to run recoveries at a decent pace or is there a place for literally walking recoveries or does it depend on the specific session? I always take great interest in the splits people run in sessions but most of us rarely, if ever, talk about our recoveries?

Part of the reason for asking is that lately, in the last few months in particular as I've been pushing the envelope with training paces, I have found I walk more recoveries than previously. Thoughts? Is there a general rule or target for recoveries or does it depend on the individual?

Maybe this question belongs in another thread.

Been wondering this a lot myself lately and meaning to post in the random running questions thread about it, so I'll just follow along here with interest instead!

Swashbuckler

Cheers for the responses so far. To give context I'd typically manage jog recoveries for all my tempo stuff usually around 8.30min/mile pace but for some of the very fast stuff sometimes recoveries have been as slow as 9min/mile and in some cases walking a few. Take this weeks session of 12x300m the first 9 were slow jog recovery with the last 3 walked. Found it harder to maintain jog recovery for a lot of the sharp 5k block sessions.

Duanington

There's room for active recovery and for standing recovery, I've seen club sessions where the recovery is static...but the reps are run very hard.

There are some strength bases sessions that sometimes specify a pace for the "recovery" part but usually the faster bit is tempo at most, not 10k\5k paced stuff.

I've always been instructed to slowly jog during recoveries, keep the legs moving a little, keep the aerobic system moving a little but at the same time, it allows an actual recovery to take place. L has been clear with me in the past on that, shuffle along during the recovery as slow as you like but not down to walking pace.

It's the same on our Wednesday sessions by the way, we're encouraged to slow right down during recoveries but to keep active and keep the legs moving, a very slow jog does the trick ....8.30 pace would have a coach screaming at us to slow down on a typical session though, that looks way too quick for my liking ( unless it's one of those prescribed recovery-type sessions)

*Edit, spotted your Tempo clarification, I think that's perfect for Tempo style stuff, I'd be the same.....shorter, interval stuff is where the shuffling happens

MY BAD

It depends on the work out. I'm normally told what my recoveries should be. A couple of weeks ago we were doing 1km repeats Dermot had our recovery 400s in 1 minute 50 to 55 seconds. Today I had 3x2 with 90 standing between the 3km repeats then 400 after it in 2 minutes before doing 1km. I have done sessions in marathon training like 7x 2km at mp then recovery 1km 30 seconds per km slower.