Chapter 2 - Finding Nemo

eyrie

Sorry to read about the woes P - particularly hard to stomach when you're not sure the root cause has been identified. I'd suggest getting a second opinion just to give reassurance but like you say there's the likelihood of getting a totally different diagnosis from someone else. I guess go with your gut about that. No advice to offer but I hope you get treatment or a rehab routine that works and you're back to normal (or, normal with added S+C ) soon.

shotgunmcos

Crap P - sorry to hear.

I know I'm one to talk (just as guilty of forcing things)! I've come through 2 months of a hip issue (Never pain like you are experiencing) and still actively managing it. Typical I picked up a small calf knot as soon as I was ready to go but I know what that is and what to do :rolleyes:

Thing is the hip is a real pain in the arse, literally! Particularly if your Glute Med (the outside of your glute/hip that provides the stability on foot strike as apposed the glute max that drives the strides after the foot impact). Plus the opposite hip and quads enage differently to compensate for the discomfort.

The one thing I've done more consistently than running since identifying the hip/glute issue is roll my mat out and spend time on it particularly focusing on glute strength, hip mobility and flexibility and core. It made a difference

At first it was just a supplement to running but I've learned its real importance to sustanance of running and as such trest it with the same immportance I'd treat a tempo run. Its well worthwhile getting used to it as you gradully ease back to your base etc..

shotgunmcos

Duanington wrote: »

Have you gotten a specific programme from your physio to address the imbalance/weakness ? That would be something I’d be looking for

Also - as mentioned above, these s+c sessions really don’t have to be very time consuming. I get mine done in 10 minute blocks over the course of the week

100% agree
10-15min of the right specific exerices, done regularly, will maximise the time and provide real benefits.

Baby75

Sorry to hear about the injury and I truly understand the frustration that comes with it. I am also nodding my head in agreement to the sound advice you have gotten already. especially S&C my coach has me doing 3 sessions a week at the start it was 10 to 15 minutes and as I have gotten stronger and can do more reps and add in more resistance it is about 25 minutes now.

Good luck and I hope the hip starts to feel better soon

Swashbuckler

Latest update on the injury front (as I try to remember where I left off). Since the physio I've been to the doc again as there wasn't much he could do for me in the first visit coz everything was just flared up and angry. He took a look and had a poke around. He didn't seem all that concerned in terms of serious issues with the hip or pelvis. He wants me to go for an MRI which is great. Happy about that.

I have to say this has been the most frustratingly flaky injury I've experienced. I made a point of resting all week. Had to take the week off work as I couldn't really walk any sort of distance without having to sit down for some relief. Felt good yesterday. Had less pain during the day. Took my painkiller before bed and hey presto woke at 2.15am in a lot of discomfort. Probably more the upper thigh than the hip. But it's hard to pinpoint as the general area including the hip can get sore depending on what I'm doing or how I've been sitting. Couldn't get back to sleep with the pain. Awake since.

Physio is booked for Thursday again next week. Been on the phone to her quite a bit. She's brilliant in fairness. Doing as much as she can remotely. She very much feels like it's the hip flexor causing a lot of the discomfort. And some very pissed off tendons. Will be going back to the doc tomorrow asking for better pain relief. I'm not running on this until I'm completely pain free. Swimming isn't an option for me either so keeping cardio ticking over is a bit of a concern. I think I'll have to make do with substituting my usual running time with some light core work that doesn't anger the area. Right now even a lunge causes me pain in the left quad. Pain rather than stiffness so that's not good. So we'll see. I know this will probably sound like me lying to myself but I've been pretty OK about it all. This has forced me to take a step back which I wouldn't have taken otherwise and if I'm honest I think I needed it. Pain aside, my mood has been surprisingly good. With that being said another lesson learned from this is I need to approach my training differently going forward, meaning not pushing the envelope all the time.

Some decent advice from the former bossman lately stuck with me. One thing he has learned is not to progress all sessions equally all the time. Try to aim for one specific session per week and a second one which is "supplementary". Paraphrasing but basically you can't ramp everything equally all of the time. Looking at my training over the past two months, Jesus some weeks were two big big sessions plus a long run. You live and learn and no doubt will forget and need to relearn.

So I've been looking at my plan going forward. Obviously with new baba on the horizon the main thing will be, get pain free and string a couple of easy weeks together and see how the leg is. No sessions in that timeframe. Then if all is good keep it easy but start adding in some S&C. Nothing fancy but some core work, glute bridges, some of the myrtl stuff etc. If it means that I initially need to drop a day of running then so be it. I get the feeling that might be a blessing in disguise once baba arrives anyway.

Once I'm happy that I can mentally and physically manage training, two kids, a wife recovering from childbirth and work then I'll look to kick into my "plan".

I've been reading the brad hudson book and I do like elements of it. So some aspects will definitely be incorporated. One thing is the phasing. Base, fundamental and specific. I think what I plan to do a little differently is having a longer combined base/fundamental phase next year. One thing I think I did this year was I rushed too quick to the specific stuff. I don't want to make that mistake again. I expect to have a nice long base where I start introducing some light fartlek stuff once a week and building up from steady to tempo/strength base stuff on the second "session" day of the week. More short hill sprints like AMK has been doing on the easy runs and sprinkling of strides here and there too. Building up the long run to 13-15M. If I can, and it works out I'd like to have one easy run during the week that's a little longer but that will be lifestyle dependent. I'd like my mileage to be in the 55 mile range. Would prefer higher but I doubt time will allow it. My mantra of "don't ramp more than two things at once" remains. Work/Family/Running. They can't all ramp together.

I won't go into the specifics of the rest of the plan as this post has become too long winded as it is but I'd look to be moving into some longer hill sessions and building threshold stuff in the fundamental phase. But that being said I'll continue to try and blend in training across the full pace range throughout the year. All in all it's probably not far off a 26 week "plan". But we'll see. That could change. A lot depends on how this recovery goes and how we adapt to two babies. One thing is for sure, the period of time where we're establishing our new routine will be mostly base building or "run when I can, how I can, if I can"

I'd love some thoughts from people on their own approaches to base building, phasing training etc. But I expect most of ye are all feckin marathon runners in which case it's a very different ballgame.

Any thoughts of marathon training for me have gone out the window at least for the first half of next year anyway.

If I was to ask specific questions to the gang on here it would be;

Is there such a thing as too long base building?

If you're coming from a decent level of fitness should base building be a little more on the "aggressive" side or is the general approach of going after neuromuscular improvements and building strength the right way to go?

Swashbuckler

Just to add all of the above is dependent on good news on the injury.

chickey2

Hope you get the injury fixed soon and it doesn't hold you back too much. I've no advice on training but I will recommend a book I've just read about managing your passions with regular life: "The Passion Paradox" by Brad Stulberg and Steve Magness. It's not particularly about running but as Steve magness is a co-author a lot of the stories are about athletes. I've found it useful for work as well as running.
Anyway, here's the blurb from Amazon:

The coauthors of the bestselling Peak Performance dive into the science behind passion, revealing the ways in which passion is a double-edged sword and offering a plan for following your passion and going all in without ruining your life.

Common advice is to find and follow your passion. A life of passion is a good life, or so we are told. But it's not that simple. Rarely is passion something that you just stumble upon, and the same drive that fuels breakthroughs--whether they're athletic, scientific, entrepreneurial, or artistic--can be every bit as destructive as it is productive. Yes, passion can be a wonderful gift, but only if you know how to channel it. If you're not careful, passion can become an awful curse, leading to endless seeking, suffering, and burnout.
Brad Stulberg and Steve Magness once again team up, this time to demystify passion, showing readers how they can find and cultivate their passion, sustainably harness its power, and avoid its dangers. They ultimately argue that passion and balance--that other virtue touted by our culture--are incompatible, and that to find your passion, you must lose balance. And that's not always a bad thing. They show readers how to develop the right kind of passion, the kind that lets you achieve great things without ruining your life. Swift, compact, and powerful, this thought-provoking book combines captivating stories of extraordinarily passionate individuals with the latest science on the biological and psychological factors that give rise to--and every bit as important, sustain--passion.

Swashbuckler

Thanks chickey. I'm actually signed up to the newsletter so I've been following the articles for quite a while. To be honest I'm a desperate book reader. I'm still only halfway through Brad hudson book and I've had that for ages. And once I finish reading that I'm gonna have to read it again to absorb what I missed the first time!

healy1835

Any thoughts of marathon training for me have gone out the window at least for the first half of next year anyway.

- 'Noonan Declares for DCM 2020!'

Swashbuckler

healy1835 wrote:

- 'Noonan Declares for DCM 2020!'

Haha. This body is not cut out for marathon training.

MY BAD

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I'd love some thoughts from people on their own approaches to base building, phasing training etc. But I expect most of ye are all feckin marathon runners in which case it's a very different ballgame.

Any thoughts of marathon training for me have gone out the window at least for the first half of next year anyway.

If I was to ask specific questions to the gang on here it would be;

Is there such a thing as too long base building?

Not us all though!

As a non marathon runner who picked up an injury in February, it took me six months of building to feel I could race again. For you I guess it will depend on your targets, goals, and what distance you want to focus on. I would say once you get over this injury and start to build the mileage again you'll want to start testing yourself a bit more adding tempo stuff, maybe short hills etc. My advice would be use the next few months to get in the habit of supplementary running specific work, but never let it be too taxing that if will affect your running. Don't ramp it up too much, not just the mileage but more importantly the training load. Also get in the habit of strides just to keep a good turnover. Obviously the longer you're out the longer your base building period will be...

healy1835

Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote: »

As a non marathon runner......

What's with the username S?

MY BAD

healy1835 wrote: »

What's with the username S?

Past notions!! Maybe some time in the future myself Swashbuckler can join the DCM novice thread :pac:

Swashbuckler

Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote:

As a non marathon runner who picked up an injury in February, it took me six months of building to feel I could race again. For you I guess it will depend on your targets, goals, and what distance you want to focus on. I would say once you get over this injury and start to build the mileage again you'll want to start testing yourself a bit more adding tempo stuff, maybe short hills etc. My advice would be use the next few months to get in the habit of supplementary running specific work, but never let it be too taxing that if will affect your running. Don't ramp it up too much, not just the mileage but more importantly the training load. Also get in the habit of strides just to keep a good turnover. Obviously the longer you're out the longer your base building period will be...

Thanks for the feedback S. Someone took the jump!

When you say supplementary stuff do you mean Drills, strides etc or do you mean the core, foam rolling, stretching/flexibility/S&C stuff?

You were one guy I was interested in getting feedback from. How long were you actually off the road?

In terms of racing Im not pushed. I'd happily spend the year training without specific targets. Like you said though it all depends how long I'm out. I don't feel too optimistic right now!

MY BAD

I've had a spell n the past when I hadn't ran in months then months of slowly slowly building thinking I'll never race again. When you go over a year without a race if can be hard be optimistic but never give up and keep it positive. I suppose some background, I actually had two injuries. The first was a issue with my left shin which I got in the middle of February. That kept me out for a maximum of 7 consecutive days in a row but I had another 5 and 6 day spells out too in that period. I only ran less than 30 km for the next 4 weeks. I blame the shoes for that injury because I never got fully diagnosed. When I felt I was over it I started to ramp things up pretty quickly. Big mistake! That's when I picked up at IT band issue on my right knee. This kept me out for four days straight first, a very frustrating 4 weeks with some runs as short as 3km followed. I was running between 2 and 4 times a week and stopped as soon as I felt any pain. I got in the habit on my days off doing supplementary work. The next four weeks I made good progress, all easy runs with strides added once a week or so. I finally did my first session after 9 weeks of easy running. But it was 14 weeks really since I was doing sessions consistently. I'm still base building even though I've raced twice in July. I think because of the strides and strength work I never really lost my speed in this period I can knock out 800s at the speed before these injuries but my endurance strength definitely has gone backwards. In terms of supplementary work what am I doing? No foam rolling, and not much stretching either. My week target is the following but not always like this...
Monday is strength work day. Deadlifts maybe 60kg 3x8, single leg squats with 25kg kettlebells in each hand 3x 10, planks, Copenhagens maybe 3 sets of 15second holds, tippy toe farmer walks with the 25kg kettle bells. Heel drops/holds with weight. Strength running on YouTube has some good excerises I add in. I can spend a hour doing this if time permits.
Tuesday easy 45 minutes run finish off with strides. Then the myrtl routine at home with resistance bands.
Wednesday is track session. Drills and strides before any session. What ever the boss prescribes for the workout. And maybe 20 minutes of light strength work with body weight only at home afterwards.
Wednesday 60 minutes of running easy. If I can't be arsed or tight for time after Wednesdays sessions I'll do that 20 minutes of body weight strength work after this run.
Friday 45 easy again with strides or short hills sprints. Then I've a very basic plyometrics routine I follow for 10 to 20 minutes as it gets the tendons firing. Sometimes I swap this routine with my mytrl on Tuesday and vice versa depending if I do hill sprints or strides.
Saturday is normally tempo day. Drills and strides before it. I'm not too pushed about paces so much more so by feel, even if I'm given a pace target. I'd like to spend another 20 minutes doing strength work using body weight after this but I don't usually have time.
Sunday. Long ish run 10 to 12 miles at the moment. If I notice a flare up in my knee I might do a few single leg squats with weights after as I find this the best.
It sounds a lot but it's not very time consuming. If you do your run in the morning then what ever routine you follow in the evening to complement your running.

Swashbuckler

Cheers for all that detail S. A lot to digest there! I think I know where I've gone wrong this time so at least that's something. Moving forward (if and when that is) I definitely think I need to add some sort of s&c/myrtl/core work.

Now if only I could shake this feckin injury. Frustratingly flaky. Fine one minute and angry hip the next. More physio tomorrow and scan next week.

Swashbuckler

Thought I'd update y'all incase ye were worried.

What a difference a couple of days and a second physio visit makes.

Feeling much much better the last couple of days. Went to physio again on Thursday. Earlier in the week I had to go back to the doc for more pain relief (and stronger). Sleep has been badly hit with this injury. No comfortable position to be found.

So in terms of the physio visit I went into her on Thurs feeling a fair bit better but still some pain in the hip and plenty of numbness and tingling in the thigh. Went through a lot of questions and checks before even putting her hands near me. It's one thing I like about my physio is the level of detail she goes into before even going near me. Maybe they're all like that! After the checks she was a little surprised and went over the notes from the last day. Now that things have calmed down and the whole area is less angry it seems like the quad is the main culprit.

She did lots of work on it and some dry needling. Went at the piriformis, psoas etc and they seemed fine. First time dry needling. Not a fan of it but it seemed to be effective. Anyway yesterday and today I'm much much better. Was even able to sleep on my belly last night with pretty much no hip pain and much more feeling in the thigh.

So I need to make sure I keep rolling it. The core is something the physio wants me to make part of my routine. Very simple core work and told me to stay away from planks, sit-ups etc. The exercise she showed me is super effective and I can feel the core getting hit nicely but most importantly it's focused there and no loss of form elsewhere.

In terms of running its up to me really. I'll see how I go. Realistically I'm gonna be starting simple, bring the mileage back up conservatively and base build for a long chunk of time assuming I stay healthy. I can't say I've been overly pissed off the last two weeks. I think the injury forced me into a break that I needed. Work has ramped again and baba on the way so need to stick to my rule.

Anyways all good it seems. No big plans forthcoming in terms of running. Have kinda steered clear of strava a bit but checking every now and then incase anyone was wondering why I wasn't giving kudos. Lol.

skyblue46

Delighted to see you get significant improvement. Long may it continue. There's no doubt you are planning the right steps going forward as well.

MY BAD

Good to hear you are making some progress. Hopefully you're on the right path.

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Have kinda steered clear of strava a bit but checking every now and then incase anyone was wondering why I wasn't giving kudos. Lol.

I was the same I stayed away from strava and here. I didn't want to add to the anxiety of been injured and seeing everyone flying

coogy

Happy to hear this positive news!

I'm sure you'll do what's for the best over the coming weeks!!

Kellygirl

Delighted to hear of this progress. That’s great news.

eyrie

This is great to hear! Hope the positive trend continues

Swashbuckler

Our little girl got a little brother tonight. All are doing well

healy1835

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Our little girl got a little brother tonight. All are doing well

Nice one mate. Exciting times, enjoy every second

OOnegative

Congratulations P!!!

Kellygirl

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Our little girl got a little brother tonight. All are doing well

Congrats P. Delighted for you. Lovely news.

skyblue46

Great news P. All the best to mama and baba. Hopefully all went well and you have them home soon.

Wubble Wubble

Congrats on the new arrival P. Delighted for you.

ariana`

Super news to start the day P! Thanks for sharing. Congratulations to all and a speedy recovery to L.

Younganne

Congrats on the new arrival. Great news P

MY BAD

Congrats P

diego_b

Big congrats to you and your family!

Singer

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Our little girl got a little brother tonight. All are doing well

Congrats to the 4 of you

Back in Black

Congratulations and enjoy!!

Baby75

massive congratulations

average_runner

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Our little girl got a little brother tonight. All are doing well

Congrats, ye will have great fun!!

AuldManKing

A book has been opened on the name of the ickle boy;




No - its not Alan.

OOnegative

AuldManKing wrote: »

A book has been opened on the name of the ickle boy;




No - its not Alan.

Don’t call him Michael anyway........

skyblue46

OOnegative wrote: »

Don’t call him Michael anyway........

Michael Noonan from Limerick! Oh that brings me out in a cold sweat :pac:

I'm sure P and his good lady will be much more tasteful than that.

Duanington

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Our little girl got a little brother tonight. All are doing well

Love it - congrats P

Swashbuckler

His name is Notluke Sean Noonan haha

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

His name is Notluke Sean Noonan haha

Go on....you can tell them....I'm truly honoured

Swashbuckler

Haha. Luca Sean.

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Haha. Luca Sean.

Luca Sean Noonan....It has a certain ring to it. I'm sure ex coach will be as honoured as I am. Hahaha..

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote:

Luca Sean Noonan....It has a certain ring to it. I'm sure ex coach will be as honoured as I am. Hahaha..

It's an athletic sounding name isn't it. Haha

OOnegative

skyblue46 wrote: »

Luca Sean Noonan....It has a certain ring to it. I'm sure ex coach will be as honoured as I am. Hahaha..

Bound to be cranky so if Sean is in the name!!!

Swashbuckler

Cheers to everyone for the well wishes. Surprised to see people still following this ghost town of a log. I'm hoping once things settle I can start logging a bit again but I know how this goes so I'm saying that more in hope than expectation. Maybe I could turn this into a running commentary log rather than a detailed breakdown with paces etc. We'll see.

In the short term given the circumstances its a 'play it by ear' job for a while. No solid plans until I'm happy that the energy levels and mind can handle the demands of proper training. I expect to spend a few weeks tipping away with easy stuff and hopefully some tempo stuff thrown in. Pretty much all aerobic. Once I'm back at work it's easier to establish routine so the only question then will be the energy levels. We'll see. Priority is the mind and the family.

The body feels great again. One of the bonuses of being up at silly hours with baba is that suddenly there's a quiet house to do some core stuff. Haha.

Excited to get back into it proper once things settle. I was really starting to feel like a runner again before baba2 was born so that was encouraging. I don't see myself racing much for the rest of the year. Once I get back into it I have a plan outlined covering roughly six months. Hopefully all goes well and I can kick into that sooner rather than later. But patience is key.

coogy

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Cheers to everyone for the well wishes. Surprised to see people still following this ghost town of a log. I'm hoping once things settle I can start logging a bit again but I know how this goes so I'm saying that more in hope than expectation. Maybe I could turn this into a running commentary log rather than a detailed breakdown with paces etc. We'll see.

In the short term given the circumstances its a 'play it by ear' job for a while. No solid plans until I'm happy that the energy levels and mind can handle the demands of proper training. I expect to spend a few weeks tipping away with easy stuff and hopefully some tempo stuff thrown in. Pretty much all aerobic. Once I'm back at work it's easier to establish routine so the only question then will be the energy levels. We'll see. Priority is the mind and the family.

The body feels great again. One of the bonuses of being up at silly hours with baba is that suddenly there's a quiet house to do some core stuff. Haha.

Excited to get back into it proper once things settle. I was really starting to feel like a runner again before baba2 was born so that was encouraging. I don't see myself racing much for the rest of the year. Once I get back into it I have a plan outlined covering roughly six months. Hopefully all goes well and I can kick into that sooner rather than later. But patience is key.

Ah, totally missed the big announcement, congrats to you and the family!!

Swashbuckler

coogy wrote:

Ah, totally missed the big announcement, congrats to you and the family!!

Thanks a mill. We'll done on Ratoath by the way. Super HM in the bank there. One to be proud of.

healy1835

We'll get that showdown one day