Chapter 2 - Finding Nemo

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote:

I can almost feel your happiness from hear any time there is a mention of someone concentrating on 10k

Haha I really do to be honest. I love hearing it. Even 5k. People neglect that end in general I think. Not sure why, maybe it's coz it's a very uncomfortable place to be.

skyblue46 wrote:

Great run at the weekend. You can churn out times on bad days now that you thought were superhuman a year ago. I particularly relate to your comment about a process of improvement. I think that my lack of motivation towards DCM training stemmed from the fact that I felt that the success or failure of my training would be determined by whether I hit some arbitrary target in DCM or not.

I get you completely. It's taken me a while to realise it and I sometimes have to remind myself, it's the long term that matters to me. I forgot for a while that I don't need to justify a great block of training with some arbitrary time. Sometimes it takes a few wise words from a coach with an old head on young shoulders to get you back on track in terms of mentality. Haha. Maybe I didn't get the 5k time I thought the recent training deserved but at some point this block will pay massive dividends. It did give me the kick up the bum I needed in terms of nutrition and booze.

I get where you're coming from with the marathon. It's one of the many reasons I still haven't run one. Everything geared up towards that one big race with so many variables that can make it a good or bad day.

OOnegative

Your progress has amazed me to be honest and goes back to the talent vs hard work argument. You clearly work hard but there is talent there to that can be clearly seen. Like myself you have a very understanding missus who grasps what running means to you which is a huge thing. Long may the progress and improvements continue for you, one of the best logs here.

Swashbuckler

OOnegative wrote:

Your progress has amazed me to be honest and goes back to the talent vs hard work argument. You clearly work hard but there is talent there to that can be clearly seen. Like myself you have a very understanding missus who grasps what running means to you which is a huge thing. Long may the progress and improvements continue for you, one of the best logs here.

That's very kind of you to say. Thanks.

Haha the old talent debate. I'll never agree with ye on that one. I'd put it down to being lucky enough to be a member of the glue factory, a loss of roughly 20lbs, cut back on booze, never missing a run, an almost obsessive love of running and countless hours of hard work. But I appreciate what you're saying.

The missus is great. She sees the positive changes in me in the last year. But I'm also very lucky I can run at lunch. Otherwise I'm not sure how I'd work it. But knowing me I'd find a way. Haha

Swashbuckler

Recovery has been pretty good from the race last weekend. Some decent sessions Tuesday and Friday.

Monday - Easy 7M at 8.08/mile.
Was pleasantly surprised with this run. I've often found the first run a couple of days after a race is often very enjoyable. It's weird. Even after what I considered a bad day at the office in Killarney I was full of enthusiasm Monday. Kept it easy. Weather was cooler. Nice to run in normal temperatures again. I skipped the strides this week as I felt the legs could handle what was on the plan and nothing extra.

Tuesday - 6x1200m at 5.45 (Off 2min). 4min jog. 4x1min Hard (90s).
I must say I was surprised when I saw this on the plan. In a way it was a bit of a confidence boost. Coach backing me with a tough session that soon after a decent 10k effort. Nice one. Legs felt up to it to be honest but I was a little tentative. It was a chunky enough looking session at a decent clip.
Usual 2 mile warmup. Skipped the Drills. Took off into the session. The first couple took a little effort. The legs woke up halfway into the first one. As the session went on I felt better and better. By the fifth and sixth I was in the groove. Different story for the 1min hard. By the last one of those there was very little left in the legs. Was very tired but satisfied at a good session.
I felt strong throughout this session and probably at the limit for what I could manage for the day by the end. Didn't help I somehow ended up into a headwind for a couple of the 1min hard.

Splits for the 1200s were;
5.46/5.45/5.45/5.43/5.40/5.46
And for the 1min Hard were;
5.01/5.12/5.08/5.23

I couldn't have run the 1200s better. Spot on effort and pace. Was going well on the 1min hard. The last one was into a headwind and the legs were just about dead by then. Had to skip the cooldown as I was caught for time. Bold.....
Total mileage for the session was 8.6miles.

Wednesday - Easy 7M at 8.20/mile.
Very tired and took it very handy. One of those times where I could really really feel the previous days session.

Thursday - Easy 7M at 8.07/mile.
Legs starting to come round. Still on the tired side.

Friday - (3x3min at 6min pace) + 8min at 6.15 pace + (3x3min at 6min pace)
Starting to see a bit more of this stuff in my plans for the week. Building up a little more on the strength side. I enjoy these sessions. They're more about the legs than the lungs. Less stressful that's for sure but I always feel great after these.. And very hungry. I went out onto the roads for this. I tend to try and encorporate more bumps for these type of runs whereas the Tuesday sessions I almost treat as a track style session so run them on the flat of the estate. This one went well. The first set of 3min I handled very well albeit a couple of up hills made me taper back a bit on the pace to keep the right effort. The 8min section was a good effort. Right where it should be. The last set of 3min were definitely a little tougher and the legs were tired at the end. Very tired. Splits were;

6.08/6.05/6.02
6.13
6.02/5.59/6.00

Total mileage for the session was 8 miles.

Saturday - my favourite. The long run. I'm liking the fact the long run has bumped up to 14miles lately. Woke at ridiculous o clock this morning so decided rather than lying in bed I may as well get up and run. Hit the road at 6am after waking at 4.30am. Body was more awake than my last long run. Some woeful hills around these parts. Jesus. Not much to report apart from the fact the run went well. I didn't feel as fatigued as I expected. Happy to have a very good week in the bag.

Im not sure what's up with me lately but I'm getting crap sleep and it's not baby's fault. The last two weeks have seen me wake at some stupid hours. Hopefully i can get back to normal soon. Nutrition has been much better this week.

Total mileage for the week was 51.7 miles. Happy days.

Great to see some of the DCM 17 grads knocking it out of the park this week. Some great running. Everybody seems to be running some marathon in October?

Swashbuckler

Incase anyone thought I was being sarcastic I've developed a big gra for the long run in the last while.

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Incase anyone thought I was being sarcastic I've developed a big gra for the long run in the last while.

What's that old saying about hunt with the hounds and run with the foxes? Haha. You're a politician in the making. ;-)

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote:

What's that old saying about hunt with the hounds and run with the foxes? Haha. You're a politician in the making. ;-)

Haha long runs are part of 10k training too you know. In all honesty the sessions in the last couple of months have been tough. Very quick paces. The long run is like my light relief at the end of the week. And the extra couple of miles have been enjoyable.

Swashbuckler

One hell of a week and I'll be completely honest in my assessment of it. I must say when I saw the plan for the week I wondered was there a mistake haha. Did Luke accidentally hit a few wrong numbers while he was texting. Alas he didn't. Or at least he didn't admit to it.

Monday - Easy 7M at 8.02. This was a run of the mill run. Felt good. Nothing unusual. Finished up with some strides. All good.

Tuesday - 2x8min at 6.10/3x6min at 6/4x2min at 5.45 off 2mins.

Yikes.

It looked like a beast of a session and felt like a beast. Took this out on to the roads. Did the usual two mile warmup. First 8min kicked off on a hill. Great start! To be fair the 8 min sets weren't too bad. I handled them pretty well. The 6mins were tough. The instruction for the session was not to flog myself and keep it controlled. If I'm completely honest with myself I was stubborn and effort levels were pretty high and I toughed it out. By the time I got to the 2min sets the legs were very tired (as planned). But effort levels were pretty high. I still had the speed to hit the target pace and faster. By the end, I was fecked. A little confused if I had made a balls of the session. A little proud that I had the grit to manage it.

Pace splits were;
6.17/6.09
6.06/6.03/6.05
5.46/5.48/5.39/5.40

I really felt it after this session. By God I ate a fine dinner later that day!
Total mileage for the session was 11 miles.

Wednesday - in theory it was an Easy 7M. Let's call it a recover 7M. Ran at 8.19. Legs were very very tired.

Thursday- AM - 4M and PM 7M both at 8.10.
Legs still very tired. My first ever double day.

Friday - 7x1k at 5.45 Off 2.30mins.
Longer recoveries than usual with the instruction to keep the recoveries at a decent pace in the high 7's.
I was very apprehensive about this one as the legs were still very tired. They weren't as bad as I expected. It's a sign of the progress I'm making that 1k in a session seems fairly manageable. These were OK apart from maybe the first three and last one. Once the legs woke up I wasn't too bad. When I say I wasn't too bad I was pep talking myself to keep going. Once I passed the halfway point it's almost like the finish line is in sight. By the end I was shattered. Dropped to the floor.

5.43/5.42/5.51/5.41/5.45/5.42/5.40
All recoveries between 7.30-7.50.

Total mileage for the session 8.6 miles.

Saturday - 15 miles
Given the week I had I kept it sensible for this one and avoided all the hills in Ballyheigue. So an out and back route. I decided this halfway through the run and typical me being me I had a little negotiation with myself. OK Paul you can keep it on the flat today but as a compromise from miles 10 to 15 you need to do laps of the mobile homes site and pass your bed 7 times and keep going. A mental test so to speak. Negotiation successful. Haha. Passed the mobile home each time and kept going. I won't lie. By mile 13 on extremely tired legs it was tough but I kept going. Finished up just outside the mobile home.

Total mileage for the week was 60.3 miles. My biggest week ever and my body knew all about it.

Had a chat with the boss today and it wasn't so bad after all. Haha. Thought I might be in a little trouble for my Tuesday exploits. Glad for the usual day off today. What a pleasure to wake and not think about running. But only for one day Back to it tomorrow and looking likely I'll get my first session in with the club on Tuesday.

Kellygirl

Well done for handling the big week. Laughing at you torturing yourself passing your bed 7 times!

Swashbuckler

Kellygirl wrote:

Well done for handling the big week. Laughing at you torturing yourself passing your bed 7 times!

Haha. Had to negotiate something out of taking the "easy" route

hot buttered scones

Great week there - every time I look your getting faster! Glad to see things are going well for you.

Swashbuckler

hot buttered scones wrote:

Great week there - every time I look your getting faster! Glad to see things are going well for you.

Cheers man. It's been a good year. I've been very lucky. Good to see you on the comeback trail.

skyblue46

Is there a target race any time soon P or is this block of training simply about improving yourself as an athlete?

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote:

Is there a target race any time soon P or is this block of training simply about improving yourself as an athlete?

There is Charleville HM coming up in September which is definitely a race of interest. I have a five miler in two weeks but that's more to hook in with the club lads. So Charleville is the reason you're seeing a bit more chunky LT/tempo sessions.
But even Charleville aside, given the block of speedy stuff I've put down in May/June/July it's probably the right time to move to the other side of the seesaw and put some focus on the endurance/strength end.

AuldManKing

Super week there!

eyrie

Swashbuckler wrote: »

typical me being me I had a little negotiation with myself. OK Paul you can keep it on the flat today but as a compromise from miles 10 to 15 you need to do laps of the mobile homes site and pass your bed 7 times and keep going. A mental test so to speak.

You're a gas man. You don't like making things easy for yourself do you?
A great week there, well done!

Swashbuckler

eyrie wrote:

You're a gas man. You don't like making things easy for yourself do you? A great week there, well done!

Haha nope. I dunno what it is. Maybe a fear if I start taking the easy way out it could become a habit.

Swashbuckler

Been feeling a slight niggle the last few days. Can't say its even a niggle at this stage but the outer part of my left foot is a little tender..seems to loosen out when i run but the last couple of mornings I've noticed it when I get up...If i was to pinpoint it I'd say directly below my ankle on the lateral edge of my foot. Does anyone have any experience of this? I'm ultra paranoid given my buddy has plantar and has been out for months.

ariana`

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Been feeling a slight niggle the last few days. Can't say its even a niggle at this stage but the outer part of my left foot is a little tender..seems to loosen out when i run but the last couple of mornings I've noticed it when I get up...If i was to pinpoint it I'd say directly below my ankle on the lateral edge of my foot. Does anyone have any experience of this? I'm ultra paranoid given my buddy has plantar and has been out for months.

I had a pain/niggle that sounds similar last year. In my case it ended up being the peroneals which caused the niggle, the peroneals goes from the outside of your heel right up the outside of your calf. It was fine when i was running but a bit sore/tender first thing in the morning to walk on and at random other times when i walked on it. I went to the physio eventually and when he worked on the peroneals up into my calf they were rightly sore but i hadn't noticed this at all. It's an area i roll ever since myself with a small ball (golf, tennis or baseball). Obviously none of us can give you medical advice so i'm just sharing my experience but maybe you should see a phsyio - even if it's nothing it might be no harm to get the legs rubbed out anyhow now that you're chasing Scullion you need to be in tip top shape

Duanington

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Been feeling a slight niggle the last few days. Can't say its even a niggle at this stage but the outer part of my left foot is a little tender..seems to loosen out when i run but the last couple of mornings I've noticed it when I get up...If i was to pinpoint it I'd say directly below my ankle on the lateral edge of my foot. Does anyone have any experience of this? I'm ultra paranoid given my buddy has plantar and has been out for months.

Sounds like a regular morning in my world !!

It isn't unusual to get that kind of thing as you ramp up the miles, P - once its loosening out throughout the day I don't think you've much to worry about. L is also a physio by the way so he'll be able to give you some stretches to keep it under control.
I've any amount of aches in my feet in the mornings any time I ramp the miles up too though, if that makes you feel any better?!

Swashbuckler

ariana` wrote: »

I had a pain/niggle that sounds similar last year. In my case it ended up being the peroneals which caused the niggle, the peroneals goes from the outside of your heel right up the outside of your calf. It was fine when i was running but a bit sore/tender first thing in the morning to walk on and at random other times when i walked on it. I went to the physio eventually and when he worked on the peroneals up into my calf they were rightly sore but i hadn't noticed this at all. It's an area i roll ever since myself with a small ball (golf, tennis or baseball). Obviously none of us can give you medical advice so i'm just sharing my experience but maybe you should see a phsyio - even if it's nothing it might be no harm to get the legs rubbed out anyhow now that you're chasing Scullion you need to be in tip top shape

Haha. Scullion won't know what hit him when I kick.....

I had a google and the peroneals sounds like the exact area. I'm not overly concerned but like I said, ultra paranoid given what happened my buddy whos been out of action since January. I have a roller at home which i never use. Might give the calves a roll tonight. Thanks E.

Swashbuckler

Duanington wrote: »

Sounds like a regular morning in my world !!

It isn't unusual to get that kind of thing as you ramp up the miles, P - once its loosening out throughout the day I don't think you've much to worry about. L is also a physio by the way so he'll be able to give you some stretches to keep it under control.
I've any amount of aches in my feet in the mornings any time I ramp the miles up too though, if that makes you feel any better?!

Haha it does make me feel better. I reckon me and you have similar history when it comes to ankle damage so I'm conscious it might be that combined with the bump in mileage. Although when I was running stupidly last year before L came on the scene I can't say I ever felt ankle niggles - although I wasn't anywhere near 60 miles if I remember correctly. Cheers for the reply.

Duanington

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Haha it does make me feel better. I reckon me and you have similar history when it comes to ankle damage so I'm conscious it might be that combined with the bump in mileage. Although when I was running stupidly last year before L came on the scene I can't say I ever felt ankle niggles - although I wasn't anywhere near 60 miles if I remember correctly. Cheers for the reply.

Wear and tear is all part of it I suppose, managing that wear and tear correctly is probably not as much a part of it as it should be (in my case anyway)
Yep, plenty of blue balloon-like ankles back in the day here too :pac:

AuldManKing

Hows the runners - when I need a new pair, that's exactly where I feel it first.
The old golf ball or frozen bottle of water is a good massage technique too.

Duanington

AuldManKing wrote: »

Hows the runners - when I need a new pair, that's exactly where I feel it first.
The old golf ball or frozen bottle of water is a good massage technique too.

Good point actually, I've just ordered a couple of new pairs and the feet have definitely been feeling it more than usual the last few weeks

Swashbuckler

AuldManKing wrote: »

Hows the runners - when I need a new pair, that's exactly where I feel it first.
The old golf ball or frozen bottle of water is a good massage technique too.

That's a good question and I've been thinking about that too. I have a good few pairs on constant rotation. I had felt this a while back when I was using the new Flex RN's during my sessions so thought maybe that was the issue (I think i underpronate slightly on my left foot and there isn't much support in those Flex RN's so I stopped using them for sessions. But lately I'm wondering is it the Dynaflyte's coming to the end of their life. 700 miles on them I think and I have been relying on them for all of my sessions and most long runs.

hot buttered scones

I'd be lucky to get to 700 miles on any pair of running shoes I own. A about 500 is the most and I've binned pairs after 350/400. A pair with 700 on them are usually relegated to every day walking around shoes or recovery runs on grass. All that being we're all different and some seem to be able to get longer out of shoes than others. Also I'd think I'd be worried if I didn't wake up with a niggle at this stage. Your mileage has increased and you've doing more hilly runs than usual. The foam roller is the right job, but it'll hurt if you haven't used it in a while. It might be worth your while getting a sports massage.

Swashbuckler

hot buttered scones wrote: »

I'd be lucky to get to 700 miles on any pair of running shoes I own. A about 500 is the most and I've binned pairs after 350/400. A pair with 700 on them are usually relegated to every day walking around shoes or recovery runs on grass. All that being we're all different and some seem to be able to get longer out of shoes than others. Also I'd think I'd be worried if I didn't wake up with a niggle at this stage. Your mileage has increased and you've doing more hilly runs than usual. The foam roller is the right job, but it'll hurt if you haven't used it in a while. It might be worth your while getting a sports massage.

I'm never a great judge of when a pair needs to be changed to be honest but I've pretty much decided that Dynaflyte pair probably need to go and i'll start breaking in my Saucony's as my new "session" shoe. A sad day, I liked those Dynaflytes!

Swashbuckler

Another fine week. This is my first proper HM block with L and I have to say it's tough but I'm enjoying it. I've put in a tough few months between the shorter stuff and now leaning more towards the strength LT stuff for Charleville. Learning a lot about what I enjoy about running. I think I may end up being a better HM/10 mile runner than a 5k/10k guy but time will tell I guess.

Monday - Easy 7M at 8.07
Was starting to feel the legs come back a bit after a really tough week last week. The day off on Sunday really helped. Felt OK on this run and finished up with some strides. As mentioned previously the "niggle" was there. I'll mention more about that later.

Tuesday - I had pre-planned with L that this would be a Club session, my first with the lads. Wanted to touch base with them and introduce myself. As it turned out there was a pretty small turn out. Showed up early and met the gang. Convenient they do Tuesday sessions just up the road from my house. We were instructed the session would be 3x1300/2x1000. I had a clear idea in my mind how I wanted to run these. Hard effort but not all out. Bit gonna be one of those lads with ego trying to race sessions. Also didn't want to blow up on my first session with the crew. Haha.
Took off on our two mile warmup and had some good chats. Some sound lads. Came around to the start point and off we went. Settled into a hard enough pace but comfortable. Found myself third of the group but we were all close enough to each other. Some of the faster lads couldn't make it.
Each set I felt great. Dunno was it the company or what but everything felt easier than usual. Pushed myself a bit more for the 1000m. One thing I will say is the recoveries were a little longer than I'd like but I went with it for this session. I'd imagine some of the faster lads will push on quicker between sets which I prefer. Finished up the last one very strong and happy with my days work. Hung around for some more chats and headed home. Pace for the splits were;
5.45/5.44/5.41
5.32/5.36
Nice to run and ignore the watch and just fall in with what's going on around you. Will link in every now and then but I'm happy for the bulk of my Tuesday stuff to be prescribed by L.

Wednesday - Easy 7M at 8.03
Was surprised I was tired as I felt great all day but as soon as I took off I could feel the session in the legs. Nothing major to report. The foot pain eased after two miles. As the week went on it has pretty much gone but will kee monitoring.

Thursday AM - 4M, PM 7M
AM run was great. I felt super and would've loved to keep going. PM felt great but was a little tired by the end. I like the double days.

Friday - 4k-3k-2k-1k off 3/2/1min
I was a little apprehensive about this given my strength session last week was so hellish. In fairness this was a different type of session. Was at home in the motherland for my dad's birthday so this was run in the wesht of limerick county. Figured out my route after some discussions with Dad and took off. Toughest part of this one was the second half of the 4k and some of the 3k into a strong wind. Had to dial back the pace a tiny bit to account for the effort. Luckily I took a turn to head back towards the village and the rest was run with reasonable crosswind and a little more shade from it. These sessions are tough but I love them. It's a different feeling entirely to the sharp stuff. Definitely more leggy. Landed up home and surprised to see the mother didn't have a roast dinner sitting on the table seeing as she was so concerned about my weight. Haha. I'll never escape that no matter how long I'm running. I'm too skinny it seems. Overall a great session of 9.8 miles including warmup and cooldown. Nice to run in new surroundings. Headed off to kerry for the weekend and see the baba and missus. Lovely heading off on a drive like that after a good run and a strong coffee.

Saturday - Easy 15M at 8.03
Felt pretty goo on this run this morning. Body woke up after a few miles. Big fly flew into my eye after three miles and remained for the rest of the run. Was annoying for a while but accepted I'd have company for the rest of the run and trooped on. Legs were tired by the end. Did the usual tormenting myself passing my mobile home again. Good run. Effort levels were fine.

As for the foot it's progressively got better all week. To be honest it wasn't that bad to begin with but I was being ultra cautious. Got a text from L with some advice. It meant Monday evening was mostly me torturing myself with that awful roller and doing some weird clam type stretches in the sitting room. I'll continue to keep an eye on it but I'm not overly concerned.... Yet...

Been a good week. Feels like preparations are going well for Charleville. Touch wood. I have a five miler next week in Churchtown. The last of the Ballyhoura series. Some of the club lads are supporting it so I said I'd head along. Not really a target race or anything with good to have a crack at another five miler. Feeling the fatigue from the last few months a bit but I have been working hard in terms of training. It'll stand to me. Happy with my consistency.

skyblue46

Really looking forward to following your progress over the next few months as you gradually ease up towards eventually running a proper distance marathon

hot buttered scones

skyblue46 wrote: »

Really looking forward to following your progress over the next few months as you gradually ease up towards eventually running a marathon

Me too.

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote:

Really looking forward to following your progress over the next few months as you gradually ease up towards eventually running a proper distance marathon

Haha straight back to cross country after Charleville!

Swashbuckler

Something I've been pondering lately (and if you're reading this Luke, yes a Strava comment triggered me to ask the folks on here. Haha). Recoveries in a session. What are people's thoughts on how recoveries should be run? Is the goal for all or most sessions to be able to run recoveries at a decent pace or is there a place for literally walking recoveries or does it depend on the specific session? I always take great interest in the splits people run in sessions but most of us rarely, if ever, talk about our recoveries?

Part of the reason for asking is that lately, in the last few months in particular as I've been pushing the envelope with training paces, I have found I walk more recoveries than previously. Thoughts? Is there a general rule or target for recoveries or does it depend on the individual?

Maybe this question belongs in another thread.

healy1835

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Something I've been pondering lately (and if you're reading this Luke, yes a Strava comment triggered me to ask the folks on here. Haha). Recoveries in a session. What are people's thoughts on how recoveries should be run? Is the goal for all or most sessions to be able to run recoveries at a decent pace or is there a place for literally walking recoveries or does it depend on the specific session? I always take great interest in the splits people run in sessions but most of us rarely, if ever, talk about our recoveries?

Part of the reason for asking is that lately, in the last few months in particular as I've been pushing the envelope with training paces, I have found I walk more recoveries than previously. Thoughts? Is there a general rule or target for recoveries or does it depend on the individual?

Maybe this question belongs in another thread.

Mine are always walking or jogging. Usually walking for a session with longer intervals eg. 3x2miles and jogging for say a 20x400m.......I'd get sluggish I think if they were standing recoveries. But as with a lot of my running, I just do what my coach tells me to

OOnegative

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Something I've been pondering lately (and if you're reading this Luke, yes a Strava comment triggered me to ask the folks on here. Haha). Recoveries in a session. What are people's thoughts on how recoveries should be run? Is the goal for all or most sessions to be able to run recoveries at a decent pace or is there a place for literally walking recoveries or does it depend on the specific session? I always take great interest in the splits people run in sessions but most of us rarely, if ever, talk about our recoveries?

Part of the reason for asking is that lately, in the last few months in particular as I've been pushing the envelope with training paces, I have found I walk more recoveries than previously. Thoughts? Is there a general rule or target for recoveries or does it depend on the individual?

Maybe this question belongs in another thread.

Most plans say ‘active recovery’ be that running at a good clip or walking I suppose that’s down to the individual in question. I myself jog(roughly 9-9.30min/mile) to give it a number, for recoveries during a session. As long as it’s active i’d say your doing the right thing.

Kellygirl

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Something I've been pondering lately (and if you're reading this Luke, yes a Strava comment triggered me to ask the folks on here. Haha). Recoveries in a session. What are people's thoughts on how recoveries should be run? Is the goal for all or most sessions to be able to run recoveries at a decent pace or is there a place for literally walking recoveries or does it depend on the specific session? I always take great interest in the splits people run in sessions but most of us rarely, if ever, talk about our recoveries?

Part of the reason for asking is that lately, in the last few months in particular as I've been pushing the envelope with training paces, I have found I walk more recoveries than previously. Thoughts? Is there a general rule or target for recoveries or does it depend on the individual?

Maybe this question belongs in another thread.

Great question and been wondering myself. It’s generally been prescribed for me if it’s a jog so I’ve taken it to be a walk then when it doesn’t say - which is shorter recoveries between longer or faster intervals. I did wonder if I was copping out by walking!

eyrie

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Something I've been pondering lately (and if you're reading this Luke, yes a Strava comment triggered me to ask the folks on here. Haha). Recoveries in a session. What are people's thoughts on how recoveries should be run? Is the goal for all or most sessions to be able to run recoveries at a decent pace or is there a place for literally walking recoveries or does it depend on the specific session? I always take great interest in the splits people run in sessions but most of us rarely, if ever, talk about our recoveries?

Part of the reason for asking is that lately, in the last few months in particular as I've been pushing the envelope with training paces, I have found I walk more recoveries than previously. Thoughts? Is there a general rule or target for recoveries or does it depend on the individual?

Maybe this question belongs in another thread.

Been wondering this a lot myself lately and meaning to post in the random running questions thread about it, so I'll just follow along here with interest instead!

Swashbuckler

Cheers for the responses so far. To give context I'd typically manage jog recoveries for all my tempo stuff usually around 8.30min/mile pace but for some of the very fast stuff sometimes recoveries have been as slow as 9min/mile and in some cases walking a few. Take this weeks session of 12x300m the first 9 were slow jog recovery with the last 3 walked. Found it harder to maintain jog recovery for a lot of the sharp 5k block sessions.

Duanington

There's room for active recovery and for standing recovery, I've seen club sessions where the recovery is static...but the reps are run very hard.

There are some strength bases sessions that sometimes specify a pace for the "recovery" part but usually the faster bit is tempo at most, not 10k\5k paced stuff.

I've always been instructed to slowly jog during recoveries, keep the legs moving a little, keep the aerobic system moving a little but at the same time, it allows an actual recovery to take place. L has been clear with me in the past on that, shuffle along during the recovery as slow as you like but not down to walking pace.

It's the same on our Wednesday sessions by the way, we're encouraged to slow right down during recoveries but to keep active and keep the legs moving, a very slow jog does the trick ....8.30 pace would have a coach screaming at us to slow down on a typical session though, that looks way too quick for my liking ( unless it's one of those prescribed recovery-type sessions)

*Edit, spotted your Tempo clarification, I think that's perfect for Tempo style stuff, I'd be the same.....shorter, interval stuff is where the shuffling happens

MY BAD

It depends on the work out. I'm normally told what my recoveries should be. A couple of weeks ago we were doing 1km repeats Dermot had our recovery 400s in 1 minute 50 to 55 seconds. Today I had 3x2 with 90 standing between the 3km repeats then 400 after it in 2 minutes before doing 1km. I have done sessions in marathon training like 7x 2km at mp then recovery 1km 30 seconds per km slower.

Swashbuckler

Duanington wrote:

I've always been instructed to slowly jog during recoveries, keep the legs moving a little, keep the aerobic system moving a little but at the same time, it allows an actual recovery to take place. L has been clear with me in the past on that, shuffle along during the recovery as slow as you like but not down to walking pace.

Most of what you posted are probably along the lines of what I thought. Just I've seen a few sessions on Strava lately where people are pretty active (decent enough pace) between some hard paces (what I'd consider quicker than tempo). I've also had a couple of sessions myself lately were a more steady recovery pace was prescribed.

But mostly in the 5k block of speedy stuff I've struggled to maintain a jog in some cases and was down to a walk. It had me questioning was I overstretching a little even though the actual fast paced section was manageable.

Just got me wondering should more sessions have a steady ish recovery.

Cheers everyone.

Testosterscone

I think I know the comment you are referring to. There is just one caveat from strava. Shorter the recovery time between the reps the less accurate that pace will be and usually errs on the side of fast as you are decelerating.

For me personally recoveries are as specific as the sessions themselves. I don't always prescribe this as usually look at how a runner deals with these week by week and only pipe up if I feel they need a change.

If the role of the session is tempo stuff then HR is a major component of the session and as such an active recovery is essential to keep the heart rate up and away from full recovery. These types of session are influencing energy pathways and as such the aerobic element is vital

In quicker than Vo2 max type sessions (faster than 3k pace) biomechanical efficiencies are the main focus so full recoveries can be more preferable.

Ideally with 5k/10 session's it would be an active recovery where possible however sometimes this will depend on the person, they might not always be able to sustain the session so adapt it but ultimately would be working towards active recoveries

Given the nature of marathon training though I would say 95% of the recoveries I would prescribe here would be active to steady as the majority of sessions would be slower than 5k pace and the role energy pathways and muscle fueling in marathon running means these will be the primary focus of training.

dublin runner

Don't worry, you'll evenutally master the art of making walking pace look like running!

It's all in the arm movement and lifting the knees. A difficult one to hone but one that is worth the effort and time!

Swashbuckler

Great info to have L thanks. Specifically breaking it up into VO2max, 5k/10k, tempo, marathon recoveries. Very helpful. Cheers.

AuldManKing

Good discussion.

I've been instructed by L to easy jog during recoveries and I think this has other benefits for me, especially in Marathon training.

While doing longer repeats, you're waiting for the finish, you can see it in the distance, you finish the rep and take a well earned walk break.
"eerrr, no - what are you doing" - My body was becoming accustomed to these breaks.

Recently I'm doing my recoveries at a decent clip (7:50-8:3x's) for the longer reps and I'm finding a huge difference in perceived fitness as a result.
At the start it was difficult to do it - my body was calling out to stop, but now it feels good and after about 5-10 seconds of toughness the pace feels like 11 min/miles when its actually 8-9.

I think this will also help with the mental side of running (especially mine as I'm psychotic) when things get tough.

Swashbuckler

AuldManKing wrote:

While doing longer repeats, you're waiting for the finish, you can see it in the distance, you finish the rep and take a well earned walk break. "eerrr, no - what are you doing" - My body was becoming accustomed to these breaks.

And that's exactly what I was worried about happening. Getting into the habit of taking these walking breaks. All well and good if it's meant to be a walk but I'd prefer to save the walking for when I should be walking!

ariana`

Great question P and great replies.

Good luck in the race tonight (i think )!

Swashbuckler

ariana` wrote:

Good luck in the race tonight (i think )!

Thanks a mill. This'll be a fun report

hot buttered scones

Great results last night, well done!

On the subject of recoveries I would always aim to jog them, but it doesn't always work out that way. L. has told me not to worry at times, and that the ability to run them would come when my strength/endurance. Sometimes I end end up walking the beginning, then breaking into a jog - usually after a few reps though. I used to think that maybe I was running the reps too fast to be able to properly jog the recoveries, and perhaps I was right, but I think the opposite can also be true - if I run the first few recoveries too fast, then I can struggle to hit the paces on the later reps and then struggle to jog the recoveries for later reps. Slowing down to proper recovery pace (i.e much slower than easy pace) made a significant change to how I was able to handle the sessions - that's for the shorter, faster stuff approaching V02 max pace anyway. For threshold/Lt type longer reps, I always feel I get more out of the session if I can run the recoveries at the slower end of easy pace if possible. I know I'm getting fitter not when I can run at the prescribed pace for the reps, but when I can properly run the recoveries. Does that make sense?

Swashbuckler

That pretty much sounds exactly how I felt and my approach. Especially for the faster stuff. Jog the first few recoveries and then after a few I'd be walking the first 20s and trying to jog the rest of the recovery. Interesting to see different people's views and experiences on this.