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Property in an RPZ Below Market Rate

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    #92
    Galadriel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭Galadriel


    ThehPatroniser wrote: »
    Disaster

    The brother is now a nervous wreck. He phoned the main tenant and said that he would be prepared to do a deal and accept half of what he was originally looking for, rather than let the case go to court with bad publicity for everyone. She told him that he could speak to her solicitor but that they they have withdrawn their offer. CAN THEY DO THAT?? They openly offered half and now when he is prepared to accept that proposal they have slapped him in the face and said that they will see him in court. This is the last straw. We'll get nothing. How can they be permitted to offer a deal and then back down on it. Surely every person can reject an offer at first but come back later and say "We've thought about it and we'll take it" It's a nightmare
    Also there are huge nursing home fees in our family.

    Even if they accepted the offer, they can still go to the RTB as it's an illegal price increase, there is no getting around that.


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    #93
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    ThehPatroniser wrote: »
    Disaster

    The brother is now a nervous wreck. He phoned the main tenant and said that he would be prepared to do a deal and accept half of what he was originally looking for, rather than let the case go to court with bad publicity for everyone. She told him that he could speak to her solicitor but that they they have withdrawn their offer. CAN THEY DO THAT?? They openly offered half and now when he is prepared to accept that proposal they have slapped him in the face and said that they will see him in court. This is the last straw. We'll get nothing. How can they be permitted to offer a deal and then back down on it. Surely every person can reject an offer at first but come back later and say "We've thought about it and we'll take it" It's a nightmare
    Also there are huge nursing home fees in our family.

    They can do that. Given she's referred him to her solicitor I suspect they've gotten advice that the increase is illegal.

    Sounds like she is quite happy to go to the rtb

    If be getting legal advice and ensuring your brothers tax affairs are in order.

    Finally after all the advice you got on this thread not to act illegally I'm bemused that your brother has now done what he did


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    #94
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    ThehPatroniser wrote: »
    As a family we need this money for genuine reasons. We are not talking about Spanish holidays here. We are talking about nursing homes and trying to break even.

    But you said the only reason he was increasing the rent is because other similar rents are higher than what he is getting.

    He was happy before but now he's not.


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    #95
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    You need to take all emotion out of this. Your brother clearly wasn't worried about nursing home fees before this whole fiasco so don't drag them into the discussion now.

    Of course the tenants can withdraw their offer. The max increase allowed is 4% (double check the calculator to be sure) and given your brother's faux pas they'd be daft to accept any thing else.

    And from a landlord's perspective, your brother would be equally daft to accept an offer of higher rent as this would put him in breach of the RPZ and open to prosecution. You need to get this idea of entitlement out of your heads. You are entitled to 4% and you are pissing off good tenants by continuing


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    #96
    pansophelia
    Registered Users Posts: 277 ✭✭pansophelia


    ThehPatroniser wrote: »
    As a family we need this money for genuine reasons. We are not talking about Spanish holidays here. We are talking about nursing homes and trying to break even.

    I'm sorry for the difficulty you and your family have with nursing home fees. I agree that that can be a significant expense, and there isn't enough being done in terms of tax breaks to help allay the cost.
    However, is this a brand new issue? Are you and your brother relying on a soaring housing market to pay for nursing home fees? How has your brother managed to date? Surely this would have been an incentive previously for him to keep a close eye on his income from the house?
    Perhaps your brother should sell the house (has likely seen significant gains over the past few years as I mentioned)?
    Of course they can rescind the offer - your brother has acted like a bully, and they have no option but to now follow the letter of the law to ensure that they are protected, particularly if there's any possibility of the case going before the PRTB. Surely your brother realised that a 1000euro rent increase would cause difficulties within any household?


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    #97
    Dr Crayfish
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭Dr Crayfish


    ThehPatroniser wrote: »
    they have slapped him in the face and said that they will see him in court

    Who slapped who in the face here? Sweet Jesus...


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    #98
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    ThehPatroniser wrote: »
    As a family we need this money for genuine reasons. We are not talking about Spanish holidays here. We are talking about nursing homes and trying to break even.

    You've now gone from your brother being pissed at not being able to charge the same rent as others, to him being willing to leave the house empty rather than get the extra rent, to desperately need8ng the money for family reasons.

    Doesn't add up


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    #99
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,080 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    ThehPatroniser wrote: »
    As a family we need this money for genuine reasons. We are not talking about Spanish holidays here. We are talking about nursing homes and trying to break even.

    You wrote that your brother would be happy to leave the property empty for two years to use as an occasional crash pad.

    But now he needs money for nursing home fees.

    :D


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    #100
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    dubal wrote: »
    If the property is 50% under market rate, leaving it idle for 2 years probably makes sense in the long term.

    I can't imagine this was the intention of the law though.

    Dubal

    No rent for two years.
    After the two years he then lets it for double the current rent it will him take two more years to make up for two year rent loss at current rate.
    So it will be four years from now before he sees the benefit of his much needed increase if he goes that route.


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    #101
    pansophelia
    Registered Users Posts: 277 ✭✭pansophelia


    he would be prepared to do a deal and accept half of what he was originally looking for, rather than let the case go to court with bad publicity for everyone.

    The only person that would suffer with bad publicity is your brother.


    She told him that he could speak to her solicitor but that they they have withdrawn their offer. CAN THEY DO THAT?? They openly offered half and now when he is prepared to accept that proposal they have slapped him in the face and said that they will see him in court.

    They have to do that. Your brother is acting illegally.

    This is the last straw. We'll get nothing.

    No - your brother will be getting the same rent he's been getting the past few years, and 4-8% extra depending on the exact rules.

    It's a nightmare

    Spare a thought for the tenants that your brother threatened with eviction unless they stumped up an extra grand a month.


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    #102
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Posters - apologies for the extreme move here but I need to close this thread immediately for review. I will discuss with the moderators and we will update you

    dudara


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    #103
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    The fact that you have additional costs- such as nursing home costs for an aged parent- quite simply, and brutally, is of no relevance whatsoever to the Residential Tenancies Act. The Residential Tenacies Board- have to obey the letter of the law- and it is unambiguous- in black and white- the property is in a RPZ zone- and is subject to the RPZ rules- without exception. It is not in the giving of the RTB to make an exception for your brother- if it wasn't spelt out in the SI- perhaps they might- however, that quite simply is not the case.

    Your brother cannot increase the rent in the manner proposed.
    The tenants- even if they agree to a 500 Euro increase- are agreeing to an increase which is prohibited by law- and can- at any time up to 6 years hence- come after your brother with a case- and as its in breach of the Act- it is indefensible.

    Even if the current tenancy was extinguished- the rent level at which its set- is not. This is the whole raison d'etre of an RPZ. Your brother is stuck with the RPZ sanctioned increase- and if he tries to get a larger increase out of the tenants- they can pursue him up to 6 years after the fact- and will be compensated handsomely............

    Your brother has two options- accept an RPZ increase (here is a handy link to the RPZ calculator: https://www.rtb.ie/rent-pressure-zones/rpz-calculator
    or sell.............

    Any option to try and get the property back for personal use- has fallen by the wayside- compliments of that e-mail that your brother sent the tenants. Its their get-out-of-jail-free card- he has given them all the cards with that e-mail.


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    #104
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    UPDATE

    The OP of this thread is not believed to be a genuine poster, but instead using Boards for reasons unknown.

    I've also consulted with the A&P mods. This thread has been a great source of information from all sides which may be of use to other posters in similar situations. So the thread will remain public, but closed for future posting.

    dudara


This discussion has been closed.
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