300% more properties available on Airbnb than daft

jamesthepeach

Another property headline today.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/300-more-properties-available-on-airbnb-than-daftie-in-dublin-804433.html


Gee I wonder why.
Daft better get in on the short term rental market before they get left behind.

gizmo81

I've written to the Minister about this and received a lengthy response;


The proposals under consideration aim to facilitate the short-term letting of accommodation within permanent residences – homesharing – while protecting the existing stock of residential property in areas of high demand, safeguarding neighbourhood amenity and consumer protection and generating revenue to address negative externalities of short term letting.

jamesthepeach

It will never happen. Let me know if it does. Until then, thats just the way it is.

Hotels would be just delighted though if it did.

Tourists would not.

gizmo81

There's a backlash worldwide to Air BnB I've linked to this across various threads, too many non-owners exploiting the platform, they have to do something.

Also, something will be done about apartment complexes as the article suggests,

The Sunday Independent reports that management companies are resorting to canceling key fobs if owners are found to be using their apartments as short term lets.

jamesthepeach

gizmo81 wrote: »

There's a backlash worldwide to Air BnB I've linked to this across various threads, too many non-owners exploiting the platform, they have to do something.

Well we'll just have to wait and see then. In the meantime Airbnb is taking over from regular let's.

gizmo81

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Well we'll just have to wait and see then. In the meantime Airbnb is taking over from regular let's.

You don';t have to wait, as the article says Management Companies are cancelling fobs, others have banned it.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/how-airbnb-is-breaking-up-communities-nationwide-36094655.html

Residents say they feel like victims in their own homes due to the increase in short-term holiday lets

And Spencer Dock has banned Air BnB, others are following

http://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/spencer-dock-residents-banned-subletting-12057505

super_furry

How many of those Air BnB lets are for a room in a house rather than a full let though?

jamesthepeach

gizmo81 wrote: »

You don';t have to wait, as the article says Management Companies are cancelling fobs, others have banned it.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/how-airbnb-is-breaking-up-communities-nationwide-36094655.html

Residents say they feel like victims in their own homes due to the increase in short-term holiday lets

And Spencer Dock has banned Air BnB, others are following

http://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/spencer-dock-residents-banned-subletting-12057505

Imagine if all those fobs weren't cancelled. It would be way more than 300%

I think this is a wake up call for rent controls.
They don't work. In fact they are detrimental wherever they have ever been introduced.

gizmo81

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Imagine if all those fobs weren't cancelled. It would be way more than 300%

I think this is a wake up call for rent controls.
They don't work. In fact they are detrimental wherever they have ever been introduced.

I don't believe it has anything to do with rent controls. in the apartment back I had to move out of because of Air BnB there were no landlords letting through Air BnB.

It was tenants and this is reflected on the Air BnB website, most hosts are 20 something foreign nationals.

worded

But the taxes that have to be paid by air bnb hosts are very high and yet still hosts host ?

It's. It worth being a host if you have to pay 50% tax so why does it continue ?

yer man!

Would love to see an NYC type ban on AirBnB in Dublin. Not allowed to let out a whole apartment for less than 30 days.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2016/10/21/13361536/airbnb-new-york-cuomo-bill-ban-short-term

This crisis is just out of control and significant measures need to be taken.

stevedublin

Title gives the impression that there are 3 times the number of properties on airbnb (short-term tourists mostly) than are rented to long-term tenants (people who live and work in the country.
I think this is misleading:
1. Airbnb properties are usually listed all the time (even if currently let since owners want to take bookings for vacant dates which come around quickly)
2. longer term rentals are only on daft.ie for shorter times before a current tenant moves out and is delisted when a new tenant is found
3. with rent controls in place for much of the country, tenants may be more likely to stay with the same rental

wordofwarning

yer man! wrote: »

This crisis is just out of control and significant measures need to be taken.

I agree. We need to stop scapegoating Airbnb for a start!

I have been on insideairbnb to see all the Airbnb's around where I live. I was surprised with how many there were. So started clicking them. I discovered in my area, out of the 10/15 or some entire lets. Bar one or two of them, none were in fact available to let. If you were to stick your house up on Airbnb for the 2 weeks you were in France. Several months later it was still showing up on insideairbnb. In fact a family friend who hosted once on Airbnb well over two years ago and hasn't since was still showing up on insideairbnb...

If I took all the listing of daft.ie and all the listings on insideairbnb for the last 2 years (as that is what some journalists are doing...), it would seem like there is no housing crisis. But if you use flawed data, you get impression that there are huges amounts of Airbnbs that simply are not there

Banning Airbnb is not the solution. Airbnb is popular in Dublin as hotels are a complete rip off. Banning Airbnb is not going to going address the hotel room shortage in the city, but make it worse. Airbnb would not be so popular, if there were a healthy level of hotel rooms. We need to build more hotels. You don't need a PhD in economics to see if hotel rooms are nearly entirely full during the Summer what banning Airbnb will do tourist numbers in Dublin

Banning Airbnb in Dublin is going to be like the Berlin ban. Politicians are going to take a ton of credit for solving the housing crisis. When in reality they have had minimal impact on the housing crisis. Airbnb is only a problem in Dublin due to the shortage of apartments/houses.

Banning Airbnb is dangerous. Everyone in Government will be giving themselves credit for 'easing the housing crisis' by banning Airbnb. They will have done nothing of the sort. But it will appease the masses who can't see through that

circular flexing

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Imagine if all those fobs weren't cancelled. It would be way more than 300%

I think this is a wake up call for rent controls.
They don't work. In fact they are detrimental wherever they have ever been introduced.

Even without rent controls, the (potential) profit to be made on Airbnb would still far outweigh the rental potential.

GGTrek

People should not use insideairbnb for any data analysis since its author massages the data for his own communist agenda:

http://www.murraycox.com/venezuela/

Graham

GGTrek wrote: »

People should not use insideairbnb for any data analysis since its author massages the data for his own communist agenda:

http://www.murraycox.com/venezuela/

That link doesn't tell me much other than the author has opinions about Venezuela. Did I miss the Irish Airbnb connection?

Del2005

worded wrote: »

But the taxes that have to be paid by air bnb hosts are very high and yet still hosts host ?

It's. It worth being a host if you have to pay 50% tax so why does it continue ?

The majority of long term rental is by landlords with 1 or 2 dwellings. They are paying 50% tax on much lower income with zero protection from rouge tenants and a potential huge fine if they do anything wrong.

That's the reason why when rents are at their highest level thousands of landlords are selling up or going short term only, if we had a functioning system people would be rushing to invest in rental properties. There is no rush.

worded

Del2005 wrote: »

worded wrote: »

But the taxes that have to be paid by air bnb hosts are very high and yet still hosts host ?

It's. It worth being a host if you have to pay 50% tax so why does it continue ?

The majority of long term rental is by landlords with 1 or 2 dwellings. They are paying 50% tax on much lower income with zero protection from rouge tenants and a potential huge fine if they do anything wrong.

That's the reason why when rents are at their highest level thousands of landlords are selling up or going short term only, if we had a functioning system people would be rushing to invest in rental properties. There is no rush.

Ah ok I understand how it's attractive to LL renting entire properties.

But the 50% tax is a disencentive to someone letting a single room and turning it from a private dwelling to a commercial property and the threat of being hit with capital gains in the sale of the place in the future.

I know someone who air bnb a room for just a few days before the tax scare into and then dropped the idea like a hot pototato.

LuckyLloyd

They're not paying tax to the standard required.

worded

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

They're not paying tax to the standard required.

What do you mean ?

GGTrek

Graham wrote: »

GGTrek wrote: »

People should not use insideairbnb for any data analysis since its author massages the data for his own communist agenda:

http://www.murraycox.com/venezuela/

That link doesn't tell me much other than the author has opinions about Venezuela. Did I miss the Irish Airbnb connection?

He is the creator of insideairbnb. He has a clear agenda:
http://insideairbnb.com/behind.html

antoinolachtnai

The first thing is: It is always going to appear like there is more overnight/short-stay accommodation than housing. The reason is that people hardly ever move their home (maybe once in 1000 nights) but they change their overnight/short-stay accommodation every night or two. Every time people move out, the property has to be re-advertised, and they are always moving in and out.

The second thing is that hotels are paying rates. They are paying about 1250 euros per room per year in Dublin 2 from a quick look (my reference is the hotel on Fenian St) which is 4 euros per room per night. Airbnb's don't pay any equivalent levy. The easy thing would be to throw a similar levy into the mix, maybe a bit higher.

Graham

GGTrek wrote: »

He is the creator of insideairbnb. He has a clear agenda:
http://insideairbnb.com/behind.html

Sorry GGTrek, I see absolutely no evidence that the author having an opinion on Venezuela is having any effect on the data.

I notice that the author is making the raw data available for download, I'd consider that to be fairly transparent.

wordofwarning

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

They're not paying tax to the standard required.

In what sense?

I see a lot of non-sense on how everyone on Airbnb is evading taxes. Yet none of them seem to realise that Revenue gets data from Airbnb on revenue earned by host. There is zero room for tax evasion, as it is entirely trackable with the paper trail

beauf

yer man! wrote: »

Would love to see an NYC type ban on AirBnB in Dublin. Not allowed to let out a whole apartment for less than 30 days.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2016/10/21/13361536/airbnb-new-york-cuomo-bill-ban-short-term

This crisis is just out of control and significant measures need to be taken.

... you realize reducing the rental stock further isn't going to help anything...

gizmo81

beauf wrote: »

... you realize reducing the rental stock further isn't going to help anything...

How will the rental stock be reduced?

What about all the tenants listing the spare room on Air BnB instead of Daft. If Air BnB is banned in non-permanent residences 2moro do you think they'll not put a long term tenant in the spare room?

Graham

beauf wrote: »

... you realize reducing the rental stock further isn't going to help anything...

Reverting holiday accommodation back to residential is.

beauf

It won't revert back because no one wants to be a LL.

All that will happen is you will have more people competing for even less spaces.

Graham

beauf wrote: »

It won't revert back because no one wants to be a LL.

In which case most of it will be sold, still back to residential so still a gain.

beauf

There are 300% more properties for rent on Airbnb in Dublin than there are to rent on Daft.ie.

..its renting thats the main problem... (not the only problem)

Graham

People move out of rented accommodation when they buy, freeing up rental units. Still a gain.