Should date be set to cut off long-term dole wasters ?"

Wheeliebin30

ooter wrote: »

Yes it does.

I see. Anyway that wasn't the initial point.

It was end of the road saying people paying rent in social houses will never have the option to own then which was wrong.

ooter

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

I see. Anyway that wasn't the initial point.

It was end of the road saying people paying rent in social houses will never have the option to own then which was wrong.

And you said many people paying €40 per week rent eventually bought their council houses at a discount of up to 60% which is also wrong.
If you are means tested to only pay €40 a week rent there's not a hope in hell you're getting a mortgage.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

40 years in social housing? No inclination to try house themselves in 40 years?

end of the road

LexieOnRale wrote: »

40 years in social housing? No inclination to try house themselves in 40 years?

obviously their income doesn't allow it. funnily enough that can happen, people working but don't earn enough to get a mortgage or pay huge rents.

Karangue

Having balls of young lads to increase their income should be addressed.

ooter

LexieOnRale wrote: »

40 years in social housing? No inclination to try house themselves in 40 years?

Yes my parents are 40+ years living in social/local authority housing and 25 years living in an actual house, my father would've been 45 when he got the keys to his first council house. by the time he was in a position financially to approach the council about maybe buying the house he was told he was too old to get a mortgage.

Hollister11

My mum knows a guy in his 40s.

He has never worked day in his life, he has been getting the dole since he left school. When his mum died last year he inherited "his mums" council house. He does course constantly just to keep his benefits. This council house is in an upmarket place in Dublin. The house is worth circa 450K

ooter

Hollister11 wrote: »

My mum knows a guy in his 40s.

He has never worked day in his life, he has been getting the dole since he left school. When his mum died last year he inherited "his mums" council house. He does course constantly just to keep his benefits. This council house is in an upmarket place in Dublin. The house is worth circa 450K

He wouldn't inherit the house, his mother would've never owned the house if she was paying rent and neither will he. What usually happens in situations like this is the son will be offered alternative (usually 1 bedroom) accommodation and the council will take back possession of the house.

Hollister11

ooter wrote: »

He wouldn't inherit the house, his mother would've never owned the house if she was paying rent and neither will he. What usually happens in situations like this is the son will be offered alternative (usually 1 bedroom) accommodation and the council will take back possession of the house.

Well he's still living there. Actually its 2 years ago in November, not 1.

The fact is he shouldn't be living in a 3 bed house in Dublin worth almost half a million.

ooter

Hollister11 wrote: »

Well he's still living there. Actually its 2 years ago in November, not 1.

The fact is he shouldn't be living in a 3 bed house in Dublin worth almost half a million.

100% agree with you, but if he was moved out and the council gave the house to a single parent with a few kids I'd imagine the locals would say she shouldn't be living in a house worth almost half a million.

Donal55

ooter wrote: »

When did this happen, my parents are living in council accomodation 40+ years (neither have ever been dole wasters btw) and I don't ever remember them having the opportunity to buy at 80% discount?

My brother bought his coco house in 1988, the millenium year, for €11k.

Think he sold it for about €250k at the height of the boom.

Hollister11

ooter wrote: »

100% agree with you, but if he was moved out and the council gave the house to a single parent with a few kids I'd imagine the locals would say she shouldn't be living in a house worth almost half a million.

They probably would. But at least a family will get decades of use out of it, like his family did.

ooter

Donal55 wrote: »

My brother bought his coco house in 1988, the millenium year, for €11k.

Think he sold it for about €250k at the height of the boom.

Yeah I remember that offer and it was a great deal for anyone who could afford to avail of it, unfortunately my parents were living in a council flat at the time and not a house so couldn't avail.

Hollister11

Hollister11 wrote: »

Well he's still living there. Actually its 2 years ago in November, not 1.

The fact is he shouldn't be living in a 3 bed house in Dublin worth almost half a million.

Could only be possible if he was living there his entire life, or at least at the same time that the mother died.

In other words, he had to have been paying rent ('on the rent') to the council. Or, like has happened around the corner from me, the council would board the house up and give it to someone else.


And if someone has lived with their parents their entire lives, in the same house, do you not feel it would be a bit unfair to suddenly make them homeless because their remaining parent has died?

Hollister11

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Could only be possible if he was living there his entire life, or at least at the same time that the mother died.

In other words, he had to have been paying rent ('on the rent') to the council. Or, like has happened around the corner from me, the council would board the house up and give it to someone else.


And if someone has lived with their parents their entire lives, in the same house, do you not feel it would be a bit unfair to suddenly make them homeless because their remaining parent has died?

Maybe unfair, but they don't own it. Entitled to nothing

BillyBobBS

A boards.ie thread about the dole and council house tenants, well this is a first.

Shanotheslayer

BillyBobBS wrote: »

A boards.ie thread about the dole and council house tenants, well this is a first.

Ironically like your post.

jamesthepeach

I've paid a fortune in tax and prsi over the years.
If I wanted to go on the for a couple of years for a break from work I wouldn't be allowed.

I think everyone should be allowed to take a dole break of about 5 years during their career if they feel like sitting back and putting their feet up for a while.

Widdershins

ooter wrote: »

Yes my parents are 40+ years living in social/local authority housing and 25 years living in an actual house, my father would've been 45 when he got the keys to his first council house. by the time he was in a position financially to approach the council about maybe buying the house he was told he was too old to get a mortgage.

I don't think you should have to justify your parents staying in their home. It's good that they are housed and secure.

ooter

ooter wrote: »

LexieOnRale wrote: »

40 years in social housing? No inclination to try house themselves in 40 years?

Yes my parents are 40+ years living in social/local authority housing and 25 years living in an actual house, my father would've been 45 when he got the keys to his first council house. by the time he was in a position financially to approach the council about maybe buying the house he was told he was too old to get a mortgage.

A bit off topic but Ruth Coppinger lives in a LA house/apartment. Unlike some of her socialist comrades she doesn't believe in owning property.

ooter

ooter wrote: »

LexieOnRale wrote: »

40 years in social housing? No inclination to try house themselves in 40 years?

Yes my parents are 40+ years living in social/local authority housing and 25 years living in an actual house, my father would've been 45 when he got the keys to his first council house. by the time he was in a position financially to approach the council about maybe buying the house he was told he was too old to get a mortgage.

A bit off topic but Ruth Coppinger lives in a LA house/apartment. Unlike some of her socialist comrades she doesn't believe in owning property.

Hollister11

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A bit off topic but Ruth Coppinger lives in a LA house/apartment. Unlike some of her socialist comrades she doesn't believe in owning property.

Shes on 90K a year plus expenses and she gets a local authority house. This isn't 'she doesn't believe in owning property: He's leeching of the state, for a cheaper house.

Donal55

Hollister11 wrote: »

Shes on 90K a year plus expenses and she gets a local authority house. This isn't 'she doesn't believe in owning property: He's leeching of the state, for a cheaper house.

She wasn't on €90k when she got the house.

ELM327

Donal55 wrote: »

She wasn't on €90k when she got the house.

So she should now give it up.

Wheeliebin30

Donal55 wrote: »

She wasn't on €90k when she got the house.

Thank you!

Just proves my whole point about people scamming the system if true.

Donal55

ELM327 wrote: »

So she should now give it up.

Not if she's paying her rent. Perhaps the system is wrong, and if it is then perhaps everyone who has a job should be turfed out of coco homes. Might just exacerbate the housing problem a little all the same.

ELM327

Donal55 wrote: »

Not if she's paying her rent. Perhaps the system is wrong, and if it is then perhaps everyone who has a job should be turfed out of coco homes. Might just exacerbate the housing problem a little all the same.

Puh-leeese

"Rent" probably like 50 quid a week or something,
If she declared her income correctly and has an LA house she should be booted or charged full market rent plus a penalty for occupying a social house . Stealing a living she is.

Donal55

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Thank you!

Just proves my whole point about people scamming the system if true.

How is it a scam? She's obviously meeting all the criteria as is. Now if that system is wrong, thats another topic altogether.

ELM327

Donal55 wrote: »

How is it a scam? She's obviously meeting all the criteria as is. Now if that system is wrong, thats another topic altogether.

because her earnings changed after getting the house and she still keeps it when she is no longer eligible

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Donal55 wrote: »

How is it a scam? She's obviously meeting all the criteria as is. Now if that system is wrong, thats another topic altogether.

because her earnings changed after getting the house and she still keeps it when she is no longer eligible

Why not? Her TDs job may not last forever. I would imagine she's paying a huge rent.

ooter

ELM327 wrote: »

Puh-leeese

"Rent" probably like 50 quid a week or something

There's no way she's only paying €50 a week rent, my parents' rent was well over €100 a week when my father was working, it's lower now since he retired.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Donal55 wrote: »

How is it a scam? She's obviously meeting all the criteria as is. Now if that system is wrong, thats another topic altogether.

because her earnings changed after getting the house and she still keeps it when she is no longer eligible

Why not? Her TDs job may not last forever. I would imagine she's paying a huge rent. And, like Paul Murphy, most of her salary goes to the Party with her only taking the average industrial wage.

Donal55

ELM327 wrote: »

because her earnings changed after getting the house and she still keeps it when she is no longer eligible

Thousands of people occupying council houses after their circumstances change. They juat don't get turfed out when that happens. That brother of mine who I mentioned earlier, initially qualified as he was on poor wages, when he was still in the house years later he was a prison officer earning almost as much as a junior doctor.

Are you under the impression that come Jan 1 every year the councils do a check and turf ye out?

ELM327

ooter wrote: »

There's no way she's only paying €50 a week rent, my parents' rent was well over €100 a week when my father was working, it's lower now since he retired.

Deleted User wrote: »

Why not? Her TDs job may not last forever. I would imagine she's paying a huge rent. And, like Paul Murphy, most of her salary goes to the Party with her only taking the average industrial wage.

Wow yeah that's a huge rent for Dublin. Not sarcasm, at all.
PS: Deductions to a political party still count as income.

Donal55 wrote: »

Thousands of people occupying council houses after their circumstances change. They juat don't get turfed out when that happens. That brother of mine who I mentioned earlier, initially qualified as he was on poor wages, when he was still in the house years later he was a prison officer earning almost as much as a junior doctor.

Are you under the impression that come Jan 1 every year the councils do a check and turf ye out?

No, but if your earnings change your "rent" (and i use the word loosely when figures of "over 100 a week" are bandied about) should be severely adjusted to account for the salary being well over twice the average industrial wage.

jamesthepeach

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why not? Her TDs job may not last forever. I would imagine she's paying a huge rent. And, like Paul Murphy, most of her salary goes to the Party with her only taking the average industrial wage.

My salary goes to my wife, and I only take the average industrial wage.

end of the road

Hollister11 wrote: »

Maybe unfair, but they don't own it. Entitled to nothing

wrong i'm afraid, they are entitled to something otherwise they wouldn't get it.
funnily enough, owning a house doesn't entitle you to anything extra then those in council houses apart from ownership of that house.

ELM327 wrote: »

Wow yeah that's a huge rent for Dublin. Not sarcasm, at all.
PS: Deductions to a political party still count as income.


No, but if your earnings change your "rent" (and i use the word loosely when figures of "over 100 a week" are bandied about) should be severely adjusted to account for the salary being well over twice the average industrial wage.

you cannot use the word rent loosely as any form of monitary payment big or small to remain within a house is rent. so whether it's 50 euro or 500 euro a week it's still rent.

ELM327

end of the road wrote: »

you cannot use the word rent loosely as any form of monitary payment big or small to remain within a house is rent. so whether it's 50 euro or 500 euro a week it's still rent.

Ok but it's not representative of market rent for that area. The airquotes were used to indicate derision. But I suspect you were aware of that

end of the road

ELM327 wrote: »

Ok but it's not representative of market rent for that area. The airquotes were used to indicate derision. But I suspect you were aware of that

none of that matters. market rent isn't the only show in town. market rent is for those who can afford, for those who can't, local authority rent is availible as it should be. it's still just as much rent as market rent, but reflects income availibility.

ELM327

end of the road wrote: »

none of that matters. market rent isn't the only show in town. market rent is for those who can afford, for those who can't, local authority rent is availible as it should be. it's still just as much rent as market rent, but reflects income availibility.

Ooookaaay.
I think I've reached the end of the road where that discussion is concerned so. Can't discuss social housing with a socialist.

end of the road

ELM327 wrote: »

Ooookaaay.
I think I've reached the end of the road where that discussion is concerned so. Can't discuss social housing with a socialist.

i'm not a socialist but a realist.

ELM327

end of the road wrote: »

i'm not a socialist but a realist.

Ok.
So lets test your theory.

Are you currently availing of social housing?
(feel free not to answer of course)

end of the road

ELM327 wrote: »

Ok.
So lets test your theory.

Are you currently availing of social housing?
(feel free not to answer of course)

no i'm not, nor have i ever. why?

Hollister11

Hollister11 wrote: »

Maybe unfair, but they don't own it. Entitled to nothing

Incorrect. They're entitled to the use of the house.

ELM327 wrote: »

Puh-leeese

"Rent" probably like 50 quid a week or something,
If she declared her income correctly and has an LA house she should be booted or charged full market rent plus a penalty for occupying a social house . Stealing a living she is.

Your rent is adjusted with your income. A family of 4, all working, and a man on his own on the dole, in identical houses, next door to each other, will both pay hugely different amounts of rent.

bodhrandude

More like the government should be telling employers to cop on and start training people again, people on the dole get stuck in a trap of 'no experience' even if they do numerous courses or schemes its still not enough for employers. Employers like the recent one discussed here from Dublin, the one looking for floor staff for his pub and the entry level was three years experience, that employer should be told to cop the fcuk on and to train new staff.

Wheeliebin30

bodhrandude wrote: »

More like the government should be telling employers to cop on and start training people again, people on the dole get stuck in a trap of 'no experience' even if they do numerous courses or schemes its still not enough for employers. Employers like the recent one discussed here from Dublin, the one looking for floor staff for his pub and the entry level was three years experience, that employer should be told to cop the fcuk on and to train new staff.

Rubbish.

There is plenty of jobs out there now where with a little bit of initiative you can work your way up.

We are actually experiencing a labour shortage.

Nothing stopping someone starting a job and furthering themselves in education on the side and working their way up.

It's not going to get handed on a silver platter for them though.

They have to use a bit of self motivation to do it. I suspect a lot are just too dam lazy to try it though.

jamesthepeach

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Incorrect. They're entitled to the use of the house.



Your rent is adjusted with your income. A family of 4, all working, and a man on his own on the dole, in identical houses, next door to each other, will both pay hugely different amounts of rent.

Garauntee you neither of them will be paying anywhere near the rent a working person pays when renting privately in the exact same house in the exact same neighbourhood.

Wheeliebin30

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Garauntee you neither of them will be paying anywhere near the rent a working person pays when renting privately in the exact same house in the exact same neighbourhood.

Unequal society is right.

Just not in the way the left like to shout about.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

Incorrect. They're entitled to the use of the house.



Your rent is adjusted with your income. A family of 4, all working, and a man on his own on the dole, in identical houses, next door to each other, will both pay hugely different amounts of rent.

But they shouldnt. That's inequitable.
Why should they both receive the same house? What is the value of work, if you get it for free anyway?

Creative83

The dole has become a lifestyle choice for many, an absurd situation considering the tax band of 42% starts at just €33000 for a single person.

Your being robbed to pay for all of this bullsh!t

ELM327

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Unequal society is right.

Just not in the way the left like to shout about.

mini_Sapphire wrote: »

The dole has become a lifestyle choice for many, an absurd situation considering the tax band of 42% starts at just €33000 for a single person.

Your being robbed to pay for all of this bullsh!t

+1 to both