Why do so many people insist that teachers get long paid holidays

wirelessdude01

Noveight wrote:

How many is a few? Three to four thousand? Source for that?

As of Oct the 1st there are 1711 primary teachers on career break. Source: documentation from my most recent branch meeting. I think in or around 300 of those are officially on secondment to the PDST, The Teaching Council, The Dept and universities. These for the uninformed are teachers looking for promotion opportunities elsewhere as they aren't available within our current teaching system.

Billy86

maryishere wrote: »

lol I was too bright to be a teacher and the part time hours would not have suited my work ethic or ambition, so I done something else.

So what is your occupation?

wirelessdude01

maryishere wrote:

If teachers in the UK can work until mid July, why can Irish teachers not do so?

So you want us to ape the UK education system which is falling apart at the seams?

You do know that 22% of teachers in England leave the profession within 5yrs of qualification due to the unsustainable demands placed on them. Source for that was a lecturer while I trained over there on the Queen's pound ðŸ˜

Noveight

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

As of Oct the 1st there are 1711 primary teachers on career break. Source: documentation from my most recent branch meeting. I think in or around 300 of those are officially on secondment to the PDST, The Teaching Council, The Dept and universities. These for the uninformed are teachers looking for promotion opportunities elsewhere as they aren't available within our current teaching system.

Thanks wireless!

maryishere wrote: »

It is back in the thread if you look.:D

1711 on career break minus 300 of whom are looking for promotions currently unavailable to them leaves 1,400 teachers "travelling around the world".

1,400 hardly equates to a few thousand now does it? Don't let that get in the way of a bit of sensationalism, mind.

givyjoe

Billy86 wrote: »

Lots of employers did instructed their employees not to go in on Monday. The majority of employers actually. My employer instructed me not to go in on Monday. The employer of every single person I know instructed them not to go in on Monday. Therefore, we should all work that day back in the interests of consistency.

And what about patients that couldn't get to their appointments? Parents that couldn't get to their access visits with their children? Shouldn't all of these people be forced to work an extra day to get back around to that, too?

What about private schools and tutors?


It is equally as 'easy' for teachers to facilitate to make up for it. Let's not pretend that pages of every textbook are essentially being ripped up and burned here, never to be covered again.

I was specifically referring to Tuesday. The point is there is a huge amount of leeway for the time to be made up, without the need to simply right this off as an extra days holiday. A point directly related to the title of the thread.

Why on earth shouldn't Tuesday be made up for in the upcoming mid term?

maryishere

Noveight wrote: »

Thanks wireless!



1711 on career break minus 300 of whom are looking for promotions currently unavailable to them leaves 1,400 teachers "travelling around the world".

1,400 hardly equates to a few thousand now does it? Don't let that get in the way of a bit of sensationalism, mind.

from post 1279:
There are plenty of young people wanting to get in to a teaching career. See the points required. For teachers who are employed, it is very relatively easy to get a "career break" and go travelling the world or whatever. This has led to a shortage of teachers in some areas. It is the reason most private sector employees and self employed cannot take a year or some years off and expect a job to come back to at the end of it all as if nothing has happened.
The number of primary and secondary school teachers on a career break has increased by a third over the last five years, according to the Department of Education. During the 2016/17 academic year, 1,348 female primary school teachers were on a career break, as well as 373 female secondary school teachers, 245 male primary teachers and 124 male post-primary teachers.

That is a few thousand, is it not

Billy86

givyjoe wrote: »

I was specifically referring to Tuesday. The point is there is a huge amount of leeway for the time to be made up, without the need to simply right this off as an extra days holiday. A point directly related to the title of the thread.

Why on earth shouldn't Tuesday be made up for in the upcoming mid term?

Schools being open or closed is not a decision that should be made an hour before the workday starts, like the text I got at 8am Monday. So how come Tuesday counts towards this and not Monday, given the decision was made on Monday when there was horrific weather in parts of the country?

wirelessdude01

maryishere wrote:

from post 1279: There are plenty of young people wanting to get in to a teaching career. See the points required. For teachers who are employed, it is very relatively easy to get a "career break" and go travelling the world or whatever. This has led to a shortage of teachers in some areas. It is the reason most private sector employees and self employed cannot take a year or some years off and expect a job to come back to at the end of it all as if nothing has happened. The number of primary and secondary school teachers on a career break has increased by a third over the last five years, according to the Department of Education. During the 2016/17 academic year, 1,348 female primary school teachers were on a career break, as well as 373 female secondary school teachers, 245 male primary teachers and 124 male post-primary teachers.

Points required is not an indicator of the number wanting to get into teaching. High points is an indicator of the relatively low number of places available.

I've heard it all now that teachers are somehow the reason why private sector employees aren't allowed take career break.

In my mid twenties I took a career break from my private sector employer to go travel for a year. Any opinion on that? I walked back to my desk as if nothing had happened or changed (nothing had but that is beside the point).

maryishere

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So you want us to ape the UK education system which is falling apart at the seams?

You do know that 22% of teachers in England leave the profession within 5yrs of qualification

Some leave because they want to travel the world, some leave because they have kids and want to devote time to them, some leave because of illness or to care for others, people leave for all sorts of reasons.

The question remains: If teachers in the UK can work until mid July, why can Irish teachers not do so, for example to help educate adults who have literacy problems, or to help run summer camps / hobby camps for kids? Could be a nice little earner for the schools / taxpayer.

evolving_doors

maryishere wrote: »

from post 1279:
There are plenty of young people wanting to get in to a teaching career. See the points required. For teachers who are employed, it is very relatively easy to get a "career break" and go travelling the world or whatever. This has led to a shortage of teachers in some areas. It is the reason most private sector employees and self employed cannot take a year or some years off and expect a job to come back to at the end of it all as if nothing has happened.
The number of primary and secondary school teachers on a career break has increased by a third over the last five years, according to the Department of Education. During the 2016/17 academic year, 1,348 female primary school teachers were on a career break, as well as 373 female secondary school teachers, 245 male primary teachers and 124 male post-primary teachers.

That is a few thousand, is it not

Is secondment counted as career break?

Do teachers get paid while on career break?

Would you not be happy for someone to take time out?

Ahhh no .... shur have some more lemons for yer bitter vinegar soup.

wirelessdude01

Well I for one am primary trained and have no desire to educate adults at all.

Also how could these adults be educated if they are gone on holidays with their children, gone to festivals, gone to the beach, out cutting silane/saving the hay. There are plenty of opportunities currently available for those adults who wish to avail of them. I know of schools who provided evenings for parents to help with languages(English for those new to our country and also Irish for anyone) and they were discontinued due to a lack of interest.

Noveight

maryishere wrote: »

The number of primary and secondary school teachers on a career break has increased by a third over the last five years, according to the Department of Education. During the 2016/17 academic year, 1,348 female primary school teachers were on a career break, as well as 373 female secondary school teachers, 245 male primary teachers and 124 male post-primary teachers.

That is a few thousand, is it not

2091 teachers on career break. Considering wireless informed us that as many as 300 teachers have taken this break to search for promotions which are currently unavailable to them, that would leave a maximum of 1700 teachers "travelling around the world"*

But yes, for the purpose of making it seem like teachers are layabouts who are defrauding the tax payers of hundreds of euro the ambiguity of "a few thousand" works far better than the number 1700.

*That is working off the incorrect assumption that the only 2 reasons teachers take career breaks are to either better themselves in promotions elsewhere or go dossing in Tenerife. Nonsense.

givyjoe

Billy86 wrote: »

Schools being open or closed is not a decision that should be made an hour before the workday starts, like the text I got at 8am Monday. So how come Tuesday counts towards this and not Monday, given the decision was made on Monday when there was horrific weather in parts of the country?

I excluded Monday as your colleagues earlier and in the last post keep giving it the "oh but everyone else isn't gonna have to do it , wa wa wa wa'. That's why. So you think you should just be given the extra days holiday do you?

You and the rest of the country were not informed at 8am on Monday. How is that I, not a teacher, knew your school and every other were closed on Sunday evening? Who told you that decision was made on Monday morning and what has that go to do with you working the days on the mid term instead?

maryishere

Noveight wrote: »

2091 teachers on career break. Considering wireless informed us that as many as 300 teachers have taken this break to search for promotions which are currently unavailable to them,

lol. A career break is a career break. Where are they "searching?" Under the dustbin?

Noveight

maryishere wrote: »

lol. A career break is a career break. Where are they "searching?" Under the dustbin?

See post 1502.

promotion opportunities elsewhere as they aren't available within our current teaching system.

maryishere

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Well I for one am primary trained and have no desire to educate adults at all.

Kids camps for you for the last week of June / first few weeks of July so.

I am not surprised you have no interest in helping the 750,000 adults in this country who have literacy problems. From the long thread here on boards "Who was the worst teacher you ever had", it is clear many people experienced teachers who had "no desire to educate anyone at all".

evolving_doors

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Well I for one am primary trained and have no desire to educate adults at all.

Also how could these adults be educated if they are gone on holidays with their children, gone to festivals, gone to the beach, out cutting silane/saving the hay. There are plenty of opportunities currently available for those adults who wish to avail of them. I know of schools who provided evenings for parents to help with languages(English for those new to our country and also Irish for anyone) and they were discontinued due to a lack of interest.

I think maryishere has some utopia dream of internment camps for teachers... if it means locking up adults to learn literacy from a pe teacher, so be it. Maryishere would be satiated.

And put em painting when the literacy classes have finished, isnt that right mih?

Billy86

givyjoe wrote: »

I excluded Monday as your colleagues earlier and in the last post keep giving it the "oh but everyone else isn't gonna have to do it , wa wa wa wa'. That's why.

I'm assuming you're not a teacher. So basically what you're saying is non-teacher (e.g. you) don't want to include Monday because that you would have to work it as well.

So you think you should just be given the extra days holiday do you?

Erm, yeah... I'm not a teacher there buddy.

You and the rest of the country were not informed at 8am on Monday.

Oh, really? What's this doing on my phone then?



Quite a welcome message to receive as I was literally in the middle of getting dressed for work at the time.

How is that I, not a teacher, knew your school and every other were closed on Sunday evening?

Wait, my what? I work near where I went to primary school, but it's not mine anymore and has not been for close to twenty years.

Who told you that decision was made on Monday morning and what has that go to do with you working the days on the mid term instead?

My boss told me, scroll up.

I already told you what it has to do with it - because I am not a teacher and do not work in a school it was very easy to call off work where I am based, because there are not hundreds of young children then left to account for. This is why I can get a text at 7:59am letting me know to stay home, a luxury not afforded to parents of many school children.

Billy86

evolving_doors wrote: »

I think maryishere has some utopia dream of internment camps for teachers... if it means locking up adults to learn literacy from a pe teacher, so be it. Maryishere would be satiated.

And put em painting when the literacy classes have finished, isnt that right mih?

Makes you wonder what mary works at, really.

I work in admin, myself. And not admin for any kind of school either!

wirelessdude01

maryishere wrote:

Kids camps for you for the last week of June / first few weeks of July so.

maryishere wrote:

I am not surprised you have no interest in helping the 750,000 adults in this country who have literacy problems. From the long thread here on boards "Who was the worst teacher you ever had", it is clear many people experienced teachers who had "no desire to educate anyone at all".

I have a passion and desire for the area I trained in. It's like asking a trained fireman to work as a bank official. Totally different training required. I chose my area.

As regards the kids camps that market is already pretty saturated with CUL camps, FAI camps, rugby camps, dance camps, athletics camps, tennis camps, coding camps, Gaeltacht courses. Those are but a sample of what I am aware of that is available.

maryishere

evolving_doors wrote: »

I think maryishere has some utopia dream of internment camps for teachers... if it means locking up adults to learn literacy from a pe teacher, so be it. Maryishere would be satiated.

And put em painting when the literacy classes have finished, isnt that right mih?

Did some of the 750,000 Irish adults who have literacy problems pass through your hands? Sounds like it:D:D:D

maryishere

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

As regards the kids camps that market is already pretty saturated with CUL camps, FAI camps, rugby camps, dance camps, athletics camps, tennis camps, coding camps, Gaeltacht courses. Those are but a sample of what I am aware of that is available.

Indeed I know some teachers who earn money in certain sports camps etc for the summer. I propose that instead of double jobbing they simply work for the government for late June / early July, and shorten their long summer holidays.

lemmno

quote="maryishere;105031183"]No, but I gave statistics to back up my points. Nobody was able to contradict them, but of course teachers being bitter teachers went for personal attacks against me then. So predictable but then teachers never were that bright, that is why most of them only done arts and teaching courses. [/quote]

Wasn't going to reply, but I couldn't help myself....'done' arts?!?

maryishere wrote: »

lol I was too bright to be a teacher and the part time hours would not have suited my work ethic or ambition, so I done something else.

You 'done' something else? What was it you 'done' exactly? I'm so intrigued. I suppose it's something you 'seen' that needed doing?

wirelessdude01

maryishere wrote:

Indeed I know some teachers who earn money in certain sports camps etc for the summer. I propose that instead of double jobbing they simply work for the government for late June / early July, and shorten their long summer holidays.

What about all the unemployed people who use these camps to gain a foothold on the jobs market?

Also, who in the govt would organise these camps?

wirelessdude01

Have to say this is a great thread for passing the time. If a teacher said it was white there would probably be an answer back saying no it was black with a statistic or source to back it upðŸ˜

Noveight

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Have to say this is a great thread for passing the time. If a teacher said it was white there would probably be an answer back saying no it was black with a statistic or source to back it up misinformed and mildly inflammatory comment

Fixed that there

Billy86

maryishere wrote: »

Indeed I know some teachers who earn money in certain sports camps etc for the summer. I propose that instead of double jobbing they simply work for the government for late June / early July, and shorten their long summer holidays.

Mary, you must be awful ashamed of your job or on the dole to have not let anyone know what you work at by now.

Billy86

lemmno wrote: »

Wasn't going to reply, but I couldn't help myself....'done' arts?!?

You 'done' something else? What was it you 'done' exactly? I'm so intrigued. I suppose it's something you 'seen' that needed doing?

If only they had SNA's way back when, eh? :pac:

maryishere

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Also, who in the govt would organise these camps?

There are plenty of teachers who can organize other things in non-school time, and have met a few who can organize other things in school time too;)

organize

Billy86

maryishere wrote: »

There are plenty of teachers who can organize other things in non-school time, and have met a few who can organize other things in school time too;)

organize

Oh dear; all of the face-palms in the world could not to this justice.

Here's a quick bit of education for you from a source geared toward those who are learning English as a second language, hopefully this simplifies it enough:

https://www.learnenglish.de/mistakes/isevsize.html
In the Concise Oxford Dictionary you will often find that both options are possible in British English - 'realise' or 'realize', 'organise' or 'organize' - whilst for other entries -ize is listed as unmistakably American, e.g. 'analyse' = British English, 'analyze' = American English.

wirelessdude01

maryishere wrote:

There are plenty of teachers who can organize other things in non-school time, and have met a few who can organize other things in school time too

That would require them to be in a managerial position, something the govt don't like to encourage in teachers hence the lack the promotional opportunities for teachers, leading to said teachers taking afore mentioned career breaks.

maryishere

LOL There are some who are well able to organize / organise summer sports camps, grinds, nixers of all types etc. If the government needs to employ some managers to help some of the 750,000 people who need assistance, then so be it.

wirelessdude01

If as you claimed earlier that teachers are flying off to Dubai and the likes how would they be able to organise and/or run said camps?

evolving_doors

maryishere wrote: »

Did some of the 750,000 Irish adults who have literacy problems pass through your hands? Sounds like it:D:D:D

Only on your purple haze maryishere.

evolving_doors

Billy86 wrote: »

Mary, you must be awful ashamed of your job or on the dole to have not let anyone know what you work at by now.

I'm guessing accountant.

killbillvol2

I think people are being a bit harsh on Mary. As well as her language difficulties she also seems to have an intellectual disability given her failure to grasp basic facts or parse statistics. Some resource hours following a NEPS assessment might have helped her when she went to school. One of us should really volunteer to help her to catch up during our holidays.

This is clearly a cry for help from Mary and we should be more supportive. Maybe with some upskilling she could get into/back into the workforce? (Nobody who spends this much time pursuing at least three separate vendettas has a job).

The almost manic use of smiley faces would concern me at this stage though.

wirelessdude01

Billy86 wrote:

Mary, you must be awful ashamed of your job or on the dole to have not let anyone know what you work at by now.

Professional whinger based on posting history on boards.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Billy86 wrote: »

Oh dear; all of the face-palms in the world could not to this justice.

Here's a quick bit of education for you from a source geared toward those who are learning English as a second language, hopefully this simplifies it enough:

https://www.learnenglish.de/mistakes/isevsize.html
In the Concise Oxford Dictionary you will often find that both options are possible in British English - 'realise' or 'realize', 'organise' or 'organize' - whilst for other entries -ize is listed as unmistakably American, e.g. 'analyse' = British English, 'analyze' = American English.

English facts from a German website, how ironic.

The word "Organize" predates "American English". "Realize" predates the USA and probably "American English" also.

Stick that in your condescending pipe and smoke it.

evolving_doors

maryishere wrote: »

LOL There are some who are well able to organize / organise summer sports camps, grinds, nixers of all types etc. If the government needs to employ some managers to help some of the 750,000 people who need assistance, then so be it.

Jeez yer like mother Teresa rounding up these people.
Maybe they are happy despite their difficulties!

But anyway roll on the internment camps maryishere.
Work will make you free.

Billy86

evolving_doors wrote: »

I'm guessing accountant.

Nah, she's ha herself a fine auld moan about those in the past too.

maryishere wrote: »

Wages in Ireland are not as high as you think. Not everyone is an accountant in Leinster.

maryishere wrote: »

Nothing could go wrong, shure were they not blue chip shares, and were there not plenty of clever accountants and economists running those banks.

Going by mary's posting history I'm leaning towards them being unemployed. I would have a hard time seeing anyone wanting to employ or looking to retain someone with such a profoundly negative outlook on all aspects of life and seeming inability to offer constructive criticism nor offer much of anything in the way of critical thinking.

endacl

maryishere wrote: »

lol I was too bright to be a teacher and the part time hours would not have suited my work ethic or ambition, so I done something else.

Did, Mary. You did something else. Requiring a looser grip of grammar.

endacl

maryishere wrote: »

There are plenty of teachers who can organize other things in non-school time, and have met a few who can organize other things in school time too;)

organize

Either is acceptable.

Poster done good.

maryishere

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

If as you claimed earlier that teachers are flying off to Dubai and the likes how would they be able to organise and/or run said camps?

Two teachers in mid term will not stop other teachers in the summer.

endacl

evolving_doors wrote: »

I'm guessing accountant.

I dunno...

I know some pretty smart accountants.

endacl

maryishere wrote: »

Two teachers in mid term will not stop other teachers in the summer.

Don’t mean to derail this one, but you’re neglecting your statistician bashing thread. Some funny responses are awaiting your indignant incredulity.

Billy86

Chaim Yummy Visor wrote: »

English facts from a German website, how ironic.

The word "Organize" predates "American English". "Realize" predates the USA and probably "American English" also.

Stick that in your condescending pipe and smoke it.

There is actually zero irony, as pointed out in the post. It's also from Oxford Dictionary, which is again cited in the paragraph. I'm not sure how you could have missed that?

I also don't recall saying organize doesn't predate American English, or that it is an incorrect spelling. It is the standard way of spelling it in American English however, as organise is the standard in British English.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/spelling/british-and-spelling

These standards were not around when the British began to colonise America. In fact, the Oxford Dictionary was first published in 1888. You can read more on that here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_spelling_differences

The fact is that 'organise' is not an incorrect spelling as Mary tried to claim, or do you wish to dispute that?

maryishere

endacl wrote: »

Don’t mean to derail this one, but you’re neglecting your statistician bashing thread. Some funny responses are awaiting your indignant incredulity.

It is not unexpected for a teacher to be a stalker. It was not a "statistician bashing" thread, as the statisticians do not make the decisions which led to the questions being asked. If you read the full page interview with the director general of the CSO on page 5 of Business Week, the supplement in yesterdays Irish Independent, you should certainly have questions yourself.

endacl

maryishere wrote: »

you should certainly have questions yourself.

Only one. What happened, Mary? What made you this way? Can we help?

maryishere

endacl wrote: »

Can we help?

Well endacl, I think you have enough problems of your own.

You wrote

endacl wrote: »

This dissspointing teacher was up till 2am last night

( post no 1441 )

You were posting again during your class hours at half ten and again at 14.18, 14.42 etc, when you encouraged others to stalk me on another thread. You certainly are a "dissspointing" teacher, as you say so yourself.

As another poster has said to you ( post no 1416 )

Autochange wrote: »

I am sorry to hear that is your attitude to your profession. I hope you dont carry it into your classroom.

endacl

maryishere wrote: »

Well endacl, I think you have enough problems of your own.

You wrote
( post no 1441 )

You were posting again during your class hours at half ten and again at 14.18, 14.42 etc, when you encouraged others to stalk me on another thread. You certainly are a "dissspointing" teacher, as you say so yourself.

As another poster has said to you ( post no 1416 )

How do you know my class hours? Where did you get a copy of my timetable?!?

I’m only in class for an hour on Friday mornings. Teaching-wise, my weekend starts at 9:50. Happy days!