GAA Special Congress (Sep 30th)

mickmackey1

Miracle Harsh Youngster wrote: »

I'm seriously confused and have looked at several articles and they're all contradicting each other..

Are there 8 teams in the QFs now? Do the 4th and 5th place teams in each province play off for a QF place or are they just both out of the championship? From balls.ie, the42.ie and gaa.ie I can't find a conclusive answer. Can anyone enlighten me?

There was a reasonably clear article on rte.ie which has now disappeared. It implied that yes, 4th and 5th are out of the c'ship and also contradicted a statement by a poster above that Kerry will automatically replace the 5th place Munster team (if winning tier2 obviously). So for now it's just a big....

rebel girl 15

munchkin_utd wrote: »

also worth noting, its the first congress where 60% is the pass limit, down from 66%

With so many conflicting ideas and opinions and not even the big hurling counties agreeing with each other (and the 2nd tier counties will be protesting against everything), I can't see any change in the hurling getting through with the required majority so in the end it could well be a bit of a non event.

How did that happen?? I presume it is because it is a special congress - normally there would be another meeting/congress to decide to drop the vote?

I'm going to wait until tomorrow and have a look at what the Sunday papers have on it - will be confusing

Happyilylost

donnem33 wrote:

I cannot get my head around this. With a motion passed for Galway and an Ulster team allowed enter the u21 championship, why can't the minors join too!! I know they are guaranteed 1 extra game, but the problem with the current format still remains - they will be playing teams that have already played at least 2 games already. Why not even out the competition and have them competing in Leinster or better yet, scrap the provincial and have an open draw. Realistically that is where the senior competition is heading anyway in a few years time!!

It's not what Galway wanted at all but it seems it was put to them when the motion was being put forward that it was the best Galway could get. Full inclusion in Leinster would of been voted down. Not much better than what they have currently.

ArmaniJeanss

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

How did that happen?? I presume it is because it is a special congress - normally there would be another meeting/congress to decide to drop the vote?

Previous congress, motion 36 reduced it from 66% to 60%
https://www.balls.ie/gaa/what-motions-were-passed-at-2017-congress-360040

Deiseen

http://www.gaa.ie/hurling/news/new-hurling-championship-format-between-2018-and-2020/

Prop Joe

Stinks of the GAA wanting more PPV games,Terrible decision...

I think the below format would of suited all counties

NHL Div 1
A - 5 Teams - 2 Relegated
B - 5 Teams - 2 Promoted - 2 Relegated
C - 6 Teams - 2 Promoted - Relegation Optional

Div 1 consists of 6 rounds - Including two wild card rounds

NHL Div 2
8 - Teams - 7 Games - (3 home,3 away and one as a curtain raiser to a Div1 game)
Promotion Optional for Winner / Relegation Optional


NHL Div 3
8 - Teams - 7 Games - (3 home,3 away and one as a curtain raiser to a Div1 game)
Promotion Optional for Winner


Munster & Leinster Championship

Group of 5
Each team plays two games with the top 4 qualilfying for semi finals (Top two home advantage)

Christy Ring Cup

Group of 6 (Developing Counties)
Each team plays three games with the top 4 qualilfying for semi finals (Top two home advantage) - Final played as Curtain Raiser to Leinster Final in Croke Park

All Ireland Series

16 Div 1 teams in seeded double elimination tournament
(Provencial winners kept opposition side of draw with home advantage guaranteed for first two games)


Nicky Rackard

8 Division 2 teams
2 groups of 4 with top team advancing to semi finals
Second & Third place play off in QF's
(QF's & Semi finals should be played as curtin raisers to tier 1 games where possible)
Final played as Curtin Raiser to All Ireland Semi final 1

Lory Meagher Cup

8 Division 3 teams
2 groups of 4 with top team advancing to semi finals
Second & Third place play off in QF's
(QF's & Semi finals should be played as curtin raisers to tier 1 games where possible)
Final played as Curtin Raiser to All Ireland Semi final 2

Minor Competitions
Should follow the same format as Senior tiers with all minor games played as curtin raisers when possible

zetecescort

extra games early summer with the hurling and possible extra games in the football "super 8", there won't be a club game played in Cork for months with dual players and dual clubs

today another step towards a rugby type setup, players having a club but only playing intercounty like rugby players having a club but only playing for their province

Kavrocks

Prop Joe wrote: »

Stinks of the GAA wanting more PPV games,Terrible decision...

Why does every decision that the non-profit organisation that is the GAA makes have something to do with money? Can the GAA never make a decision that they feel is the best for the game or the organisation in terms of promoting the game and ensuring we have an exciting championship?

Prop Joe wrote: »

I think the below format would of suited all counties

...

Div 1 consists of 6 rounds - Including two wild card rounds

And yet I think this idea of wildcard rounds is bonkers. You are never going to find a system that will please everybody. This is a trial for 3 years, let's see how it works before we all batter the hell out of it. The exact same happened with the mark but it seems to pretty much be a success.

Prop Joe

Kavrocks wrote: »

Why does every decision that the non-profit organisation that is the GAA makes have something to do with money? Can the GAA never make a decision that they feel is the best for the game or the organisation in terms of promoting the game and ensuring we have an exciting championship?

I just don't see how anyone is going to attend the majority of these games,I doubt any of them will break the 10k barrier in year 2..Just dilutes the competition.

On a separate note this does nothing for developing counties,Now people have different views on this but getting a Laois/Carlow/Antrim competitive would that be such a terrible thing?

HurlingRanker

Prop Joe wrote: »

On a separate note this does nothing for developing counties,Now people have different views on this but getting a Laois/Carlow/Antrim competitive would that be such a terrible thing?

How competitions are structured will have absolutely no bearing on the competitiveness of those counties. The league format was changed several times in it’s history under the misguided belief that simply granting those counties the opportunity to play top counties more regularly will make them more competitive, gets trialed for a few years, nothing changes and the format is restructured.

The issue is more to do with numbers of players and clubs and underage structures within the those county’s. There’s as few as three hurling clubs in some Meagher Cup counties.

Stacksofwacks

mickmackey1 wrote: »

There was a reasonably clear article on rte.ie which has now disappeared. It implied that yes, 4th and 5th are out of the c'ship and also contradicted a statement by a poster above that Kerry will automatically replace the 5th place Munster team (if winning tier2 obviously). So for now it's just a big....

Would make more sense to have the 4th team in each province play the tier 2 finalists having 4 tier one counties out of the championship after the round robin stage while Meath and Carlow are still left in the championship seems a bit wrong to me

Ropaire

HurlingRanker wrote: »

Prop Joe wrote: »

On a separate note this does nothing for developing counties,Now people have different views on this but getting a Laois/Carlow/Antrim competitive would that be such a terrible thing?

How competitions are structured will have absolutely no bearing on the competitiveness of those counties. The league format was changed several times in it’s history under the misguided belief that simply granting those counties the opportunity to play top counties more regularly will make them more competitive, gets trialed for a few years, nothing changes and the format is restructured.

The issue is more to do with numbers of players and clubs and underage structures within the those county’s. There’s as few as three hurling clubs in some Meagher Cup counties.

How can the GAA call hurling our national game if theres now 10 counties playing it? If you want to promote the game in these counties then give kids something to aim for. Merge them into something like Connacht (without Galway), Leinster (without tier 1 counties) and Ulster regional teams and let them play in the Liam McCarthy. It's the only way they'll be competitive and it would give potential All Star players in these counties an outlet to show what they can do. This restructure is just another way of dressing up the same thing we already have to squeeze a few more quid out of it at the expense of the club's, but it will do nothing to promote the game. If anything its kicking those teams that are trying to develop by putting a glass ceiling in place that they won't ever break now. They may as well go around and collect all the hurls from non tier1 counties cos it's clear the GAA don't give 2 ****s about them at this stage. They could even sell them for firewood while they're at it, make a few more quid.

Realt Dearg Sec

When were there more than ten counties playing hurling at the top level?

nice_guy80

the 'hurling counties' love shafting all the other hurling counties

protect their hegemony

Westmeath should have beaten Offaly this year and ran Tipperary close down in Semple. If they had met Dublin they would have probably beaten them.
Yet now they're down in Tier 2 with no chance to play in their own Leinster championship!

Mehapoy

nice_guy80 wrote: »

the 'hurling counties' love shafting all the other hurling counties

protect their hegemony

Westmeath should have beaten Offaly this year and ran Tipperary close down in Semple. If they had met Dublin they would have probably beaten them.
Yet now they're down in Tier 2 with no chance to play in their own Leinster championship!

They have a chance if they win tier 2 next year they play Leinster championship the year after and have a home preliminary quarter final.

FCIM

The restructured championship - think the GAA have a lot of work to do here. First, the provincial finals are going to effectively be replays of matches a few weeks previous. This year where Cork played Waterford in the All Ireland semi having played them in the Munster championship was unusual and came a good while after they had already played. Now the norm will be for teams to meet again in a provincial final and they could well have met a week/fortnight ago. Quarter finals should avoid this problem but semis may not. There's also potential for dead rubbers in the group matches. Offaly, without disrespect, are likely to be dead and buried before the final round of matches and could be playing a team which is already in the provincial final, looking ahead and unlikely to risk their starting 15 in a meaningless tie. Be interesting to see how the GAA manages that.

Under 21 - this has been needed for years. The semi finals will now be competitive, Galway get more matches and the Ulster teams may get more competitive hurling earlier on if they can avoid the big guns like Kilkenny, Galway and Wexford.

Minor - again this may serve Antrim and other northern counties well. Competitive hurling is what helps teams develop and again if they manage to miss the big guns in the first rounds this could help.

Extra time (additional) - this is welcome particularly as burn out is such an issue.

Free taking competition - this needs to be managed accordingly. I'm not a fan of deciding matches on one skill alone but players in specialised positions who don't typically take frees shouldn't be forced into this position as it could end up being heartbreaking for say an exceptional full back with no or limited free taking experience who makes a hames of a free and costs his side the game. Has potential to backfire and could be replaced with the team who either scored more goals or the one with more overall scores going through similar to rugby awarding try scoring after it's own penalty shootout debacle.

Short kick outs in football - I have less than zero interest in football so I won't comment on this.

An aside to the new championship could be with season tickets. The hurling season ticket could be slightly revamped to include the four guaranteed championship games. Would mean a rise in cost but would be very welcome particularly if they included the "can attend any match" provision which is in place for the league (from a selfish viewpoint, there's already talk of Waterford playing at Nowlan Park whilst they work on Walsh Park).

Bonniedog

Don't really see the point in changing the hurling structure. It has worked well enough and gives "weaker" teams a chance to come through the Leinster round robin. If you don't do that then really there is no grounds for complaint. if you do then you get a crack against one of the big guns. GAA people are obsessed with changing things for no good reason!

The kick out change in football is obviously a way of getting at Dublin/ Lets call a spade a spade. Curious thing is that it you look at any team, inter county or top club, they all now employ a similar strategy to Dublin.

Didn't take a genius to realise that kicking a ball to your own player was preferable to booting it down the pitch in the hope that one of them might. Comes under rubric of intelligence. Some people won't be happy until every player on pitch is back to 1910 midfield melee for the ball.

Ropaire

The league is irrelevant now too as the championship more or less has the same structure. 1A is Munster with 5 very strong teams, 1B is Leinster with 2 or 3 strong teams and cannon fodder to practice on. We're basically running off the same competition twice so why bother having a league now?

FCIM

Ropaire wrote: »

The league is irrelevant now too as the championship more or less has the same structure. 1A is Munster with 5 very strong teams, 1B is Leinster with 2 or 3 strong teams and cannon fodder to practice on. We're basically running off the same competition twice so why bother having a league now?

1A has four Munster teams and two Leinster, 1B has one Connacht which plays in Leinster, one Munster, three Leinster and one Ulster so it's not an exact comparison but yes it does feel a little repetitive.

Davys Fits

Ropaire wrote: »

The league is irrelevant now too as the championship more or less has the same structure. 1A is Munster with 5 very strong teams, 1B is Leinster with 2 or 3 strong teams and cannon fodder to practice on. We're basically running off the same competition twice so why bother having a league now?

While I wouldnt agree with your 1a/1b comparisons, yes the whole thing is becoming league like, and what is wrong with that. More really competitive games between the top teams with some knockout games in the provinces and a back door for the tier 2 teams.

Ropaire

So why do we still need the league in its current form if it's basically a dry run for the championship with a very similar structure to the championship?
More county games over the summer will reduce the weekends where club games can be played, surely makes sense to shorten the league a bit to free up some more weekends for club?

PTH2009

What are the likely championship dates next year ???

I've heard the provincials will be over by the June bank holiday weekend

Agus

PTH2009 wrote: »

What are the likely championship dates next year ???

I've heard the provincials will be over by the June bank holiday weekend

It's explained here.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/1001/908864-gaa-season-2018/

I do feel it improves the structure of the season a bit.

Bonniedog

If GAA is in competition with other sports, what is point of closing the senior championships in August?

marvin80

When will they do the draw for the Championship?

Be interesting to see the fixtures, venues and the dates they'll be held.

HurlingRanker

Ropaire wrote: »

How can the GAA call hurling our national game if theres now 10 counties playing it? If you want to promote the game in these counties then give kids something to aim for. Merge them into something like Connacht (without Galway), Leinster (without tier 1 counties) and Ulster regional teams and let them play in the Liam McCarthy. It's the only way they'll be competitive and it would give potential All Star players in these counties an outlet to show what they can do. This restructure is just another way of dressing up the same thing we already have to squeeze a few more quid out of it at the expense of the club's, but it will do nothing to promote the game. If anything its kicking those teams that are trying to develop by putting a glass ceiling in place that they won't ever break now. They may as well go around and collect all the hurls from non tier1 counties cos it's clear the GAA don't give 2 ****s about them at this stage. They could even sell them for firewood while they're at it, make a few more quid.

Connacht and Ulster regional teams would get hammered in the McCarthy Cup.

Connacht ex Galway would be competitive middle of the road Ring Cup side at best.
Ulster would be a tiny bit (but not much) more competitive than Antrim at best, in other words would struggle to maintain McCarthy Cup status.

Ulster have never won the Railway Cup.

Merging weaker counties doesn't increase the quality of players within those counties. Plus, they would be a logistical nightmare. Particularly Ulster.

munchkin_utd

wee bit of concrete news from todays examiner on various dates

Duffy confirmed the All-Ireland SHC final will take place on August 19 next year. The football decider is likely to happen on September 2 as Croke Park is set to accommodate part of Pope Francis’ visit to Ireland next year on the weekend of August 26.

The Allianz Leagues are in line to finish by the first weekend in April with the championship commencing at the start of May.

The new hurling structure will mean there will be only a live televised football championship draw on RTÉ on October 19. The master fixtures calendar for 2018 is set to be released at the end of November. The provinces will decide the draw for the round-robin games — each team will have one break weekend.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/special-congress-pressure-on-waterford-in-hurlings-new-era-460078.html

munchkin_utd

someone was asking earlier for the video stream, which doesn't seem to have been available live, but there's now at least some clips on you tube of the main debates
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=GAA+Special+Congress+Motions