Remember that dead homeless man people were concerned about? Turns out he was a nonce

I love this comical notion that a homeless person dying is a consequence of being on the street.

You'd swear they froze to death on the streets of Moscow.

Maybe, just maybe they died because well... people die.
And maybe, just maybe, the fact that 99% are alcoholics/drug users had some sort of contribution to said death.

Streets or not, I'd bet that the deaths happen either way.

Benjamin Buttons

Ipso wrote: »

Or if you want to get positive publicity to help with the homeless crisis then it's best not to get teary eyed over someone that most people won't be able to muster much sympathy for.

A lot of protesters weren't at all teary-eyed and those who were would not have been if they had known that the man was a paedophile.
Can you really not see that, or are you just shít stirring for the sake of it?
Perhaps you're against street protests in general and are using this particular case in the hope that people might be wary or guarded about taking to the streets in future to oppose government policies?
What's your beef really?

wakka12

gilberto_eire wrote: »

I love this comical notion that a homeless person dying is a consequence of being on the street.

You'd swear they froze to death on the streets of Moscow.

Maybe, just maybe they died because well... people die.
And maybe, just maybe, the fact that 99% are alcoholics/drug users had some sort of contribution to said death.

Streets or not, I'd bet that the deaths happen either way.

And whats with this notion that we shouldnt help somebody because their community suffers from very high rates of drug and alcohol abuse? Should we not be more motivated to help then, rather than kick them while theyre down

And it is not very common for relatively young men such as the man in the articlle to just drop dead

Ipso

I don't have a beef, just that homelessness will not be solved by the government throwing money at it and there is going to be things that the government just won't be able to fix. There are bigger issues like mental health and addiction.
This case will not help matters, also wasn't there a case recently where someone died and it emerged he was a heroin addict who wouldn't go to a shelter and then there was a "homeless" woman who refused a house because it wasn't in the right area for her.

Sleeper12

gilberto_eire wrote:

I love this comical notion that a homeless person dying is a consequence of being on the street.

Eh, he was asleep on a windowsill. It is believed that he fell off in his sleep. He crack his head on the ground. If he was not sleeping rough I honestly do believe that he would be alive today.
I don't know what happened to the lady in Cork but the poor mother of two in Dublin took her own life. She was offered a home & she accepted it. The council then withdrew the offer. They then offered her a boarded up place. The previous tenant took their own life there this place was such a kip. The neighbouring properties were boarded up. You wouldn't want your dog living there let alone a young mother with two small children. She politely declined. They threatened to remove her from the housing list if she did not take it. She accepted the accommodation & was due to move in.
Again I honestly believe that she would be alive too if she wasn't homeless

corner of hells

gilberto_eire wrote: »

I love this comical notion that a homeless person dying is a consequence of being on the street.

You'd swear they froze to death on the streets of Moscow.

Maybe, just maybe they died because well... people die.
And maybe, just maybe, the fact that 99% are alcoholics/drug users had some sort of contribution to said death.

Streets or not, I'd bet that the deaths happen either way.

99% are drug users / alcoholics ?
Where'd you get that info. ?

Ipso

This study has some numbers.
http://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/5950/

Benjamin Buttons

Ipso wrote: »

I don't have a beef, just that homelessness will not be solved by the government throwing money at it and there is going to be things that the government just won't be able to fix. There are bigger issues like mental health and addiction.
This case will not help matters, also wasn't there a case recently where someone died and it emerged he was a heroin addict who wouldn't go to a shelter and then there was a "homeless" woman who refused a house because it wasn't in the right area for her.

Homelessness, mental health problems and addiction are not mutually exclusive issues. Nor are they inextricably linked, the financial crisis and the government insisting that we bail out the banks didn't help, the housing crash leading to negative equity and evictions brought about by the banks - who we bailed out - didn't help either.
Homelessness is a big issue and a big deal, in fact it's a crisis.
The government need to know that we know it's a crisis, hence the protests.

gctest50

gilberto_eire wrote: »

I love this comical notion that a homeless person dying is a consequence of being on the street.

You'd swear they froze to death on the streets of Moscow.

Maybe, just maybe they died because well... people die.

......

or maybe, just maybe concrete slab > murdering paedo scum skull


splat

Amalgam

LexieOnRale wrote: »

His face is so familiar

A younger Henry Sellers?

I made the BBC!

Richard Hillman

If this guy was given a home and the locals found out about him he would have had a similar scenario to Larry Murphy and the other guy that was followed around and hounded out of the country.

People like "His Name was Jack" will always be homeless because respectable communities won't put up with the likes of him .

There are more "Jack"s on the streets.

Senna

So by this logic, no one should have condemned the 9/11 attacks until they were sure only good people died?

Sleeper12

Ipso wrote:

This study has some numbers.

This is from 2005 when we didn't have a homeless crisis.
Since 2011 we started to have a totally different "type of homeless person" compared to what you might consider a homeless person.
For starters the largest group of homeless people are children. About a third or a quarter of homeless people are children. I would like to think that they aren't on drink and drugs.
We also have people who hold down jobs but are homeless. People who had mortgages, cars and holidays until the crash. In order words, people like you & me.
With this modern type of homelessness the vast majority do not have any addiction or substance abuse.
We need to forget about the old stereo type for a homeless person. The average homeless person isn't a wino in the street.

Sleeper12

Richard Hillman wrote:

There are more "Jack"s on the streets.

There are a lot more" jacks" living at home with the wife and kids than in the street. These "jacks" just haven't been caught yet. They are business men, pilots, teachers, bus drivers, swimming coaches etc. Very few are on the streets

Beechwoodspark

I'm surprised this guy was allowed into apollo house

ToddyDoody

Is that Nonce the musical?

LollipopJimmy

I knew this man, admittedly i didn't know his past, I had to give him first aid one night after he had been kicked and beaten while asleep in a sleeping bag on savkville place. The first thing he told me was he was HIV+.

Reading this thread is saddening, not all homeless deserve to be homeless and a lot are homeless before they turn to drink or drugs. Just because one man had an awful past it doesn't mean everybody else out there is any less deserving.

Sleeper12

Beechwoodspark wrote:

I'm surprised this guy was allowed into apollo house

He was in most of the hostels in Dublin to be fair.
I doubt if Simon or The Peter McVerry Trust do police checks on homeless people. Even if they did their Christian beliefs would be that everyone deserves a bed for the night.

Sleeper12

LollipopJimmy wrote:

Reading this thread is saddening, not all homeless deserve to be homeless and a lot are homeless before they turn to drink or drugs. Just because one man had an awful past it doesn't mean everybody else out there is any less deserving.

Well said

GerryDerpy

I really struggle to join in the empathy pouring for the homeless. Maybe it is because I don't know anyone in that situation. Maybe I don't know anyone in that situation because I wouldn't let it happen.

Where are family and friends? Why don't they have anyone to turn to?

Maybe I'm a cnut.

suicide_circus

GerryDerpy wrote: »

I really struggle to join in the empathy pouring for the homeless. Maybe it is because I don't know anyone in that situation. Maybe I don't know anyone in that situation because I wouldn't let it happen.

Where are family and friends? Why don't they have anyone to turn to?

Maybe I'm a cnut.

Yeah look, it's the current hot button issue in Ireland and woe betide anyone who dosnt give it their full hand wringing. The government and their policies are a direct reflection of the peoples wishes in a democracy. We get the social policies we deserve.

Wheeliebin30

Just like Johnathan corrie there is always more to these stories.

But people just can't help themselves in blaming the goverment.

There is ample services for homeless people in this country.

GerryDerpy

suicide_circus wrote: »

Yeah look, it's the current hot button issue in Ireland and woe betide anyone who dosnt give it their full hand wringing. The government and their policies are a direct reflection of the peoples wishes in a democracy. We get the social policies we deserve.

This is it. I just can't see how the government can do something that compensates for bad life decisions.

Donal55

GerryDerpy wrote: »

I really struggle to join in the empathy pouring for the homeless. Maybe it is because I don't know anyone in that situation. Maybe I don't know anyone in that situation because I wouldn't let it happen.

Where are family and friends? Why don't they have anyone to turn to?

Maybe I'm a cnut.

Family and friends might let you and your family kip on the floor for a few weeks or even a few months I suppose. But pretty soon even family can outstay their welcome.

People with jobs, good jobs are becoming homeless now. I heard during the week that there are a couple of PS staff working with Tusla who are part of that number now.

Not everyone who is homeless are druggies, alcos, single mothers or those who refuse help as some on here would like us to believe.

LollipopJimmy

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

There is ample services for homeless people in this country.

There really isn't though. Even the soup runs are bombarded.

If you're sleeping rough and want a sleeping bag you have to wait until 11.30pm before one will be given by the services. There are good reasons for this but that doesn't help the poor ****es that are sleeping in doorways.

Anybody that thinks there isn't a problem I would suggest walking Henry St at around midnight

GerryDerpy

Donal55 wrote: »

Family and friends might let you and your family kip on the floor for a few weeks or even a few months I suppose. But pretty soon even family can outstay their welcome.

People with jobs, good jobs are becoming homeless now. I heard during the week that there are a couple of PS staff working with Tusla who are part of that number now.

Not everyone who is homeless are druggies, alcos, single mothers or those who refuse help as some on here would like us to believe.

I have at least 5 houses that would not let me sleep rough. They are not cnuts to me because I am not a cnut. If I was a paedo...

Ronaldinho

IMHO if he's guilty of the stuff he's been accused of he's no loss to the world, but the original post kinda conflates the problem of homelessness with something totally incidental.

Sleeper12

Wheeliebin30 wrote:

There is ample services for homeless people in this country.

Eh I beg to differ but all the homeless charities have been out the last week of so & all have said the opposite.
This particular guy was a monster.
The last guy known to have spoken to him was at midnight. He was found dead about 4 hours later.
The last guy known to have spoken to him was on Pat Kenny a few days ago. He is part of a homeless charity and knew this guy for the last two years. He said that he didn't like the hostels. He couldn't get a dry bed most of the time & gave up on the hostels. He did stay in Apollo House while they were there. He liked it there. He liked that he was guaranteed a dry bed every night. He wasn't kicked out on the street at the crack of dawn not knowing if he had a bed that night.
The guy was a monster. No doubt about that but that has nothing to do with homelessness. It's our failed system and Simon Coveneys failed system that has the likes of him on the streets. Apollo House proved that he would stay in a hostel if it was dry and well run.

Wheeliebin30

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

There really isn't though. Even the soup runs are bombarded.

If you're sleeping rough and want a sleeping bag you have to wait until 11.30pm before one will be given by the services. There are good reasons for this but that doesn't help the poor ****es that are sleeping in doorways.

Anybody that thinks there isn't a problem I would suggest walking Henry St at around midnight

It has been stated many times before there is enough beds for anyone who wants to avail of one.

Simple as that.

Wheeliebin30

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Eh I beg to differ but all the homeless charities have been out the last week of so & all have said the opposite.
This particular guy was a monster.
The last guy known to have spoken to him was at midnight. He was found dead about 4 hours later.
The last guy known to have spoken to him was on Pat Kenny a few days ago. He is part of a homeless charity and knew this guy for the last two years. He said that he didn't like the hostels. He couldn't get a dry bed most of the time & gave up on the hostels. He did stay in Apollo House while they were there. He liked it there. He liked that he was guaranteed a dry bed every night. He wasn't kicked out on the street at the crack of dawn not knowing if he had a bed that night.
The guy was a monster. No doubt about that but that has nothing to do with homelessness. It's our failed system and Simon Coveneys failed system that has the likes of him on the streets. Apollo House proved that he would stay in a hostel if it was dry and well run.

Maybe if he wasn't you know a criminal he might have found himself in a job and somewhere to stay.

To blame anyone else except him for his situation is pathetic.

The streets were too good for him. Hope he died a horrible death.

Donal55

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

It has been stated many times before there is enough beds for anyone who wants to avail of one.

Simple as that.

Id like to think that there's more to a home than just a bed.

LollipopJimmy

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

It has been stated many times before there is enough beds for anyone who wants to avail of one.

Simple as that.

Oh right... but there's not. At times there are but in the main there's not, there have been nights where over 200people are sleeping rough, there aren't 200 empty beds

Sleeper12

Wheeliebin30 wrote:

It has been stated many times before there is enough beds for anyone who wants to avail of one.

We have over 7900 homeless people in Ireland almost 3000 of these are children (2900).
These are staying in hotels, hostels, tents and on the streets.
You choose to ignore that there are not enough dry beds.
On busy nights some are still being turned away from hostels.
There are people on here who work with the homeless. Are you suggesting that you know more than they do?

Wheeliebin30 wrote:

Simple as that.

Not very simple really.

Sleeper12

Wheeliebin30 wrote:

Maybe if he wasn't you know a criminal he might have found himself in a job and somewhere to stay.

Wheeliebin30 wrote:

To blame anyone else except him for his situation is pathetic.

Wheeliebin30 wrote:

The streets were too good for him. Hope he died a horrible death.

The fact that you automatically link him being a criminal to homelessness shows how little you understand the issue.
I fully understand not feeling sorry for him but he could have been a law abiding citizen and the same thing would happen.
Plenty of posters think it could never happen to them. I have lots of friends etc. I have a great job. Well so did plenty of homeless people until a few years ago. Some had mortgages, most of the rest were paying rent. Normal people.

GerryDerpy

This craic about being put up in a hotel. I live in a hotel for €70 a night. How can I get the gubberment to pay for me? Sounds great.

Wheeliebin30

Sleeper12 wrote: »

We have over 7900 homeless people in Ireland almost 3000 of these are children (2900).
These are staying in hotels, hostels, tents and on the streets.
You choose to ignore that there are not enough dry beds.
On busy nights some are still being turned away from hostels.
There are people on here who work with the homeless. Are you suggesting that you know more than they do?



Not very simple really.

I'm suggesting what I have read from numerous sources. There is enough beds but people don't avail of them because they can't do drugs or drink.

After that I don't really care. That's their choice.


"There were 54 unoccupied beds in homeless shelters in Dublin last night"


http://www.thejournal.ie/home-beds-3157263-Dec2016/

This vigil outside Apollo house is off

mikeybrennan

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

I'm suggesting what I have read from numerous sources. There is enough beds but people don't avail of them because they can't do drugs or drink.

After that I don't really care. That's their choice.

Bit simplistic suggesting they have a choice

Drugs or a bed when they have an addiction

Wheeliebin30

mikeybrennan wrote: »

Bit simplistic suggesting they have a choice

Drugs or a bed when they have an addiction

So what do you suggest we do for them?

Only so much you can do. They need to want to help themselves.

LollipopJimmy

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

I knew this man, admittedly i didn't know his past, I had to give him first aid one night after he had been kicked and beaten while asleep in a sleeping bag on savkville place. The first thing he told me was he was HIV+.

Reading this thread is saddening, not all homeless deserve to be homeless and a lot are homeless before they turn to drink or drugs. Just because one man had an awful past it doesn't mean everybody else out there is any less deserving.

That's fairly sobering stuff. A man who was kicked and beaten, living on the streets, having to announce he was HIV+ to those who rescue him...that's thoroughly depressing. Yes, as it turns out, he had committed appalling crimes...but that's a separate issue.

Benjamin Buttons

GerryDerpy wrote: »

This craic about being put up in a hotel. I live in a hotel for €70 a night. How can I get the gubberment to pay for me? Sounds great.

Yawn.

Wheeliebin30

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's fairly sobering stuff. A man who was kicked and beaten, living on the streets, having to announce he was HIV+ to those who rescue him...that's thoroughly depressing. Yes, as it turns out, he had committed appalling crimes...but that's a separate issue.

You believe all that?

Maybe he was beaten when people found out what he was.

If the government had put him up in a house and gave him money they would be slated for helping a paedophile.

Jesus they can't win ever.

Wheeliebin30

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

You believe all that?

Maybe he was beaten when people found out what he was.

Do you think homeless people are beaten for reason other than that they are homeless?

I haven't seen them being beaten, but I have seen them being pi55ed on by drunken men. They hadn't read the cv or crime sheet and deemed he was worth urinating on, they were just pi55ing on a homeless guy in a sleeping bag.

So I think his post is perfectly believable. You may think it incredible. That's your prerogative.

Wheeliebin30

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Do you think homeless people are beaten for reason other than that they are homeless?

I haven't seen them being beaten, but I have seen them being pi55ed on by drunken men. They hadn't read the cv or crime sheet and deemed he was worth urinating on, they were just pi55ing on a homeless guy in a sleeping bag.

So I think his post is perfectly believable. You may think it incredible. That's your prerogative.

I've seen millionaires, working class, middle class people been beaten up.

What exactly is the point you're trying to make?

Sleeper12

Wheeliebin30 wrote:

I'm suggesting what I have read from numerous sources. There is enough beds but people don't avail of them because they can't do drugs or drink.

First off they don't avail of them because they DON'T want to do drink or drugs. You have that mixed up. Most hostels are NOT dry. This leaves people trying not to be near drink or drugs with no bed.

Your numerous of sources are the wrong sources. You never believe what the government says. They put their spin on it. Last January they promised no one staying in hotels or hostels by July. The reality is that we have more homeless now than January and not less.
People read what they want to read for the results they want to hear. It's called fake news. People are putting their daughters lives in danger due to fake news and not reading what the doctors and scientists are saying.
If you really want to know what is going on with the homeless crisis you should be reading statements from the homeless charities. All saying not enough is being done and a shortage of everything.
If it helps you sleep better believing we have enough beds then so be it but why would all the charities lie? Some of the posters here obviously work or volunteer in the sector judging by their comments. Why would they lie?

SEPT 23 1989

mikeybrennan wrote: »

Bit simplistic suggesting they have a choice

Drugs or a bed when they have an addiction

They will have only one choice in the end

Wheeliebin30

Sleeper12 wrote: »

First off they don't avail of them because they DON'T want to do drink or drugs. You have that mixed up. Most hostels are NOT dry. This leaves people trying not to be near drink or drugs with no bed.

Your numerous of sources are the wrong sources. You never believe what the government says. They put their spin on it. Last January they promised no one staying in hotels or hostels by July. The reality is that we have more homeless now than January and not less.
People read what they want to read for the results they want to hear. It's called fake news. People are putting their daughters lives in danger due to fake news and not reading what the doctors and scientists are saying.
If you really want to know what is going on with the homeless crisis you should be reading statements from the homeless charities. All saying not enough is being done and a shortage of everything.
If it helps you sleep better believing we have enough beds then so be it but why would all the charities lie? Some of the posters here obviously work or volunteer in the sector judging by their comments. Why would they lie?

Oh jesus spare me.

Are you one of these anti vaccine heads?

Enough said.

Ash.J.Williams

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Oh jesus spare me.

Are you one of these anti vaccine heads?

Enough said.

He's actually factually correct. For example a childrens solicitor and the minister for children were on tv one night, the question was "how many children are homeless tonight? ` she knew the answer and the politician just waffled in the way they're trained to do." well we have provisioned to tackle this by 2020 and we're pushing through legislation bla bla... "

Sleeper12

Wheeliebin30 wrote:

Are you one of these anti vaccine heads?

Nope. Read my post. It's the Facebook fake news that is stopping parents from getting the life saving vaccine. They did not have a free vaccine when my daughter was that age. We had to pay privately. Best 500 we ever spent.
I'll leave you for the night. I honestly believe that you are just baiting people tonight. A guy gives an account of meeting this guy on the street and you don't believe it?
I don't believe that.

GerryDerpy

Benjamin Buttons wrote: »

Yawn.

Yawn away. I don't have a home. I choose to live in a hotel. I pay my way.