Aggressive drivers and no Gardai on N20 outbound

AndrewJRenko · 11-09-2017 1:10pm

GavRedKing wrote: »

Standing in the junction would be dangerous and stupid and would probably get you moved on by the Gardai, you'd have the Gardai on the scene but not for the reasons you'd want. :pac:

Also, I cant imagine anyone with that much spare time, doing their own police work during the working day.

That's why I said 'Stand AT the junction', not 'Stand IN the junction'.

And do you really not know anyone who could give 20 minutes a day for three days spread over a couple of weeks to deal with a serious problem?

They could just stay off boards.ie for those days to save themselves 20 minutes down the line. It's just a matter of what is important for them.

the beer revolu · 11-09-2017 1:14pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

That's why I said 'Stand AT the junction', not 'Stand IN the junction'.

And do you really not know anyone who could give 20 minutes a day for three days spread over a couple of weeks to deal with a serious problem?

They could just stay off boards.ie for those days to save themselves 20 minutes down the line. It's just a matter of what is important for them.

Slight problem. A video camera or phone won't calculate the speed of cars. The "evidence" would be useless.

the beer revolu · 11-09-2017 1:15pm

While I agree that speeding is a problem generally, I think a far more serious problem is cars breaking red lights and in particular at pedestrian crossings.

It's only a matter of time before a pedestrian is seriously hurt or killed in the city centre by a motorist breaking the lights.

How often have you scolded yourself for going through a "ripe orange" light only to see the two cars behind you sailing through the red light?

Ludo · 11-09-2017 1:41pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

While I agree that speeding is a problem generally, I think a far more serious problem is cars breaking red lights and in particular at pedestrian crossings.

It's only a matter of time before a pedestrian is seriously hurt or killed in the city centre by a motorist breaking the lights.

How often have you scolded yourself for going through a "ripe orange" light only to see the two cars behind you sailing through the red light?

Definitely agree with this. Very noticible for last few years and seems to be getting worse. If I am first at a red light now, I deliberately delay for a couple of seconds before pulling off to allow any light breakers thru. It has actually saved me from a possible collision a couple of times already on one particular junction I go thru every day as I know loads of people break the lights there.

zilog_jones · 11-09-2017 1:48pm

I'm still surprised they haven't introduced red light cameras here - I know they're not cheap to install, but I'm certain they'd make a profit in certain parts of Cork.

Zerbini Blewitt · 11-09-2017 2:09pm

Let’s say for example that the OP does mean a right turn for dulux. There are no lane markings for a right turn there (I think) but I suppose technically it is still a legal right turn.

However, if it is a stressful manoeuvre (or you find it to be) there is no reason you must make this turn daily. Personally I would never dream of making a right turn there (esp 5 days a week at rush hour) because it breaks the first rule of defensive driving i.e. treating every other driver as medically blind, incompetent, and inattentive.

Instead, simply turn right at the lights for Blackpool shopping centre. Drive around the ‘block’ at the back; re-enter the N20 at McDonalds and then a straightforward left into Dulux (with the added bonus of no traffic behind you making this left – they’ll be just leaving the lights when you turn left).

zilog_jones · 11-09-2017 2:52pm

If it's something like that, I'd be inclined to agree - I generally avoid right turns on busy roads like that where there are no lights or dedicated lanes. It's just not worth the stress and hassle.

AndrewJRenko · 11-09-2017 4:13pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

Slight problem. A video camera or phone won't calculate the speed of cars. The "evidence" would be useless.

You can get a pretty clear measure on the speed if you know the distance between two markers on the road or two lamp posts and you time the car in between. It probably wouldn't be good enough for a speeding conviction, but it would help in a dangerous or careless driving conviction.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 11-09-2017 4:28pm

GavRedKing wrote: »

I've driven out there doing the speed limit, I think its 60kmh

How do you know you're doing the limit of you think it's 60kmh :pac:

andekwarhola · 11-09-2017 4:35pm

mikeecho wrote: »

I know a few people, including family members who are always complaining about aggressive drivers, yet I very rarely encounter such problems, despite driving the same roads.

My conclusion.. the people who complain are actually woeful drivers who can't maintain a constant speed, eccessively slow down for trivial hazards, don't indicate in time, and generally have poor driving skills, and i notice this being a passenger in the car with them.

Sometimes, it's not the other driver... it's YOU.

It's not often you see a post that on one hand is correct but on the other is completely wrong.

GavRedKing · 11-09-2017 4:48pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

How do you know you're doing the limit of you think it's 60kmh :pac:

Its 100% under 100kmh and I'm not out there all that, maybe 5 or 6 times a month heading to the tunnel from that direction, but I think its 60kmh up until the 100kmh sign.

Someone else may confirm the actual limit but I've passed a speed van in the slower section before the 100kmh sign a few times and have never been done while others speed pass.

I'll be out there on Saturday, I'll report my findings.

the beer revolu · 11-09-2017 6:56pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You can get a pretty clear measure on the speed if you know the distance between two markers on the road or two lamp posts and you time the car in between. It probably wouldn't be good enough for a speeding conviction, but it would help in a dangerous or careless driving conviction.

Good luck with that.
No court in the land would convict for speed related dangerous driving based on video evidence shot by a member of the public.
Is the camera calibrated?
Is the punter professionally trained to operate the camera correctly?
I'm sure a half competent solicitor could come up with several more reasons for the "evidence" to be deemed worthless.

AndrewJRenko · 11-09-2017 7:59pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

Good luck with that.
No court in the land would convict for speed related dangerous driving based on video evidence shot by a member of the public.
Is the camera calibrated?
Is the punter professionally trained to operate the camera correctly?
I'm sure a half competent solicitor could come up with several more reasons for the "evidence" to be deemed worthless.

Speed indeed would be difficult, though if the situation is as the OP described, there may well be dangerous driving going on. It would be the same as using dashcam or helmetcam evidence. I've had fines/points issued as FPN based on similar video evidence, though not for speeding offences.

mikeecho · 11-09-2017 11:25pm

pwurple wrote: »

Or, going from that post, it's possible YOU are an aggressive driver.

Maybe I'm an observant driver, who's understands road craft and car craft, maybe I'm someone who able to read the road and other drivers, thus causing no obstruction to others, and I don't get stressed or worked up about other drivers.

Maybe I'm just observant enough to see other drivers poor abilities, and drive according, without causing issue to others.

Life is short, I don't let other drivers stress me out.
People that constantly complain about aggressive drivers, need to consider their own abilities.
Are they the obstruction on the road ?
Are they the incompetent driver?
Are they the inconsiderate driver?
Are they the Aßhole ?
Are they the problem?

benjamin d · 11-09-2017 11:35pm

flaneur wrote: »

I'm getting really fed up with this.

Every morning while trying to turn right on the 50km/H zone of the N20 through Blackpool....

...spending the next 1km to my right turn driving on my bumper flashing and beeping!

While I'm not familiar with this road at all, am I right in saying that you're sitting in the right lane (the overtaking lane) for a kilometre before you make a turn? That is an excessive amount of time to be hogging the overtaking lane, and you probably appear as either completely oblivious to other road users or as someone trying to police other drivers. Just because you're going the speed limit doesn't mean you can or should dictate who can and can't pass you.

As I said though, I don't know the road so I may be wrong.

Ludo · 12-09-2017 6:40am

mikeecho wrote: »

Maybe I'm an observant driver, who's understands road craft and car craft, maybe I'm someone who able to read the road and other drivers, thus causing no obstruction to others, and I don't get stressed or worked up about other drivers.

Maybe I'm just observant enough to see other drivers poor abilities, and drive according, without causing issue to others.

Life is short, I don't let other drivers stress me out.
People that constantly complain about aggressive drivers, need to consider their own abilities.
Are they the obstruction on the road ?
Are they the incompetent driver?
Are they the inconsiderate driver?
Are they the Aßhole ?
Are they the problem?

Yeah... It's you!

the beer revolu · 12-09-2017 7:12am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Speed indeed would be difficult, though if the situation is as the OP described, there may well be dangerous driving going on. It would be the same as using dashcam or helmetcam evidence. I've had fines/points issued as FPN based on similar video evidence, though not for speeding offences.

You've gotten points based on evidence presented to the guards by a member of the public?
Did this involve an accident?

AndrewJRenko · 12-09-2017 10:46am

the beer revolu wrote: »

You've gotten points based on evidence presented to the guards by a member of the public?
Did this involve an accident?

Other way round - I've presented video evidence to Gardai that resulted in points/fines issued to drivers.

the beer revolu · 12-09-2017 11:23am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Other way round - I've presented video evidence to Gardai that resulted in points/fines issued to drivers.

I'm amazed at that.
Are you sure that you weren't just fobbed off?
Surely you have no way of knowing that points were actually issued other than the gardaí telling you that they were?

I can't imagine the Gardaí entertaining every dash cam owner who's peeved at another drivers behaviour.

I could well be wrong on this. I'm just trying to get my head around it.

zilog_jones · 12-09-2017 12:07pm

You are totally allowed to report dangerous driving to the guards - what do you think Traffic Watch is for? Having video evidence of incidents would help immensely.

12-09-2017 1:24pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Question, how many people have been killed in this reckless and dangerous zone? Given the way you describe it, that stats must back up your assessment.

If it's "the Irish way", are we the only country that speeds?

beer rev asked a simple question about that turn you are speaking about, but you failed to supply it. You started the weird ranting post, attacking and accusing others of bad driving.

From your own comments, you seem to be a bit of a keyboard warrior yourself.

Actually quite a few in a similar scenario 1.5 km up the road at the Mcdonalds drive through. Enough that they've put barriers in the middle of the road to stop crossing lanes

GavRedKing · 12-09-2017 2:14pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually quite a few in a similar scenario 1.5 km up the road at the Mcdonalds drive through. Enough that they've put barriers in the middle of the road to stop crossing lanes

Is that at the set of lights? Is it a recent thing?

j8wk2feszrnpao · 12-09-2017 2:16pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Actually quite a few in a similar scenario 1.5 km up the road at the Mcdonalds drive through. Enough that they've put barriers in the middle of the road to stop crossing lanes

How many is quite a few?
Saw where Cork had ~20 roads deaths last year (a different thread, so don't have the link to hand). If there's quite a few at one junction, then maybe it is a real danger zone (even with the lights).

12-09-2017 2:56pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

How many is quite a few?
Saw where Cork had ~20 roads deaths last year (a different thread, so don't have the link to hand). If there's quite a few at one junction, then maybe it is a real danger zone (even with the lights).

Over years several crashes and a few deaths, don't have figures. Just local memory. That wasn't a junction, it was a allowed to pull out of a filling station and drive through.

The current issue would be trying to get out of the Sunbeam industrial estate, its a 50km zone, of dual carriage way for quite some time but no one there adheres to that

AndrewJRenko · 12-09-2017 3:49pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

I'm amazed at that.
Are you sure that you weren't just fobbed off?
Surely you have no way of knowing that points were actually issued other than the gardaí telling you that they were?

I can't imagine the Gardaí entertaining every dash cam owner who's peeved at another drivers behaviour.

I could well be wrong on this. I'm just trying to get my head around it.

Yep, I'm sure - the response from the Gardai in some cases was very credible, with enough detail to convince me they were serious. In other case, I definitely was fobbed off with 'oh we'll have a word with him'. It is a bit of a cumbersome process, having to give a detailed statement in the station and burn the video clip to DVD, but it got there in the end.

I've only bothered in cases where there is 100% absolutely indisputable evidence of an offence - wrong way on one-way street, red light breaking, phone use. I haven't bothered reporting for anything debatable or arguable, like dangerous driving or close overtaking.

mik_da_man · 12-09-2017 4:37pm

Dashcam or head cam footage?

EndaHonesty · 12-09-2017 4:46pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Yep, I'm sure - the response from the Gardai in some cases was very credible, with enough detail to convince me they were serious. In other case, I definitely was fobbed off with 'oh we'll have a word with him'. It is a bit of a cumbersome process, having to give a detailed statement in the station and burn the video clip to DVD, but it got there in the end.

I've only bothered in cases where there is 100% absolutely indisputable evidence of an offence - wrong way on one-way street, red light breaking, phone use. I haven't bothered reporting for anything debatable or arguable, like dangerous driving or close overtaking.

I'm calling bullsh1t... there is no way a conviction would follow based purely on the video evidence of a civilian passerby.

AndrewJRenko · 12-09-2017 4:59pm

mik_da_man wrote: »

Dashcam or head cam footage?

Helmetcam

EndaHonesty wrote: »

I'm calling bullsh1t... there is no way a conviction would follow based purely on the video evidence of a civilian passerby.

You can call it whatever you like, but it happened. Technically, there were fixed penalties rather than Court convictions, but the Gardai in each case were fairly clear that they wouldn't issue an FPN unless they were confident that the matter would stand up in Court. I'll be happy to supply you with the names/stations of the Gardai that dealt with these cases by PM if you want to follow up directly.

I'm kinda surprised that some people are so surprised at this. Isn't it how many crime reports work? Person reports crime to Garda, gives statement, Gardai investigates, Garda takes action (FPN in this case), person accepts FPN or chooses to go to Court. Would you choose to go to Court when the Garda tells you he has a video clip of you driving the wrong way down the one-way street?

EndaHonesty · 12-09-2017 5:04pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Helmetcam

You can call it whatever you like, but it happened. Technically, there were fixed penalties rather than Court convictions, but the Gardai in each case were fairly clear that they wouldn't issue an FPN unless they were confident that the matter would stand up in Court. I'll be happy to supply you with the names/stations of the Gardai that dealt with these cases by PM if you want to follow up directly.

I'm kinda surprised that some people are so surprised at this. Isn't it how many crime reports work? Person reports crime to Garda, gives statement, Gardai investigates, Garda takes action (FPN in this case), person accepts FPN or chooses to go to Court. Would you choose to go to Court when the Garda tells you he has a video clip of you driving the wrong way down the one-way street?

A FCPN can only be issued by a Garda who personally witnessed an offence.

A video from a civilian passerby cannot be used for a Garda to retrospectively issue a FCPN.

Any Garda that operated in this way would be guilty of gross misconduct.

I would suggest you stop telling porkies...

AndrewJRenko · 12-09-2017 7:18pm

EndaHonesty wrote: »

A FCPN can only be issued by a Garda who personally witnessed an offence.

A video from a civilian passerby cannot be used for a Garda to retrospectively issue a FCPN.

Any Garda that operated in this way would be guilty of gross misconduct.

I would suggest you stop telling porkies...

And your source for this is?

And how does your view on this reconcile with the Garda Traffic Watch service, specifically designed to let people report traffic incidents for investigation by Gardai?

As I said, I'm happy to give you the names of the Gardai involved so you can submit your misconduct complaint. That'll be interesting.

Aggressive drivers and no Gardai on N20 outbound

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