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Electric Picnic 2018 **Discussion Only // No Ticket Sales** [Part 1]
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Ah lads - I was quite enjoying this debate. Not much else to discuss when we're six months away from a line-up announcement!!
I reckon, one issue that EP has in terms of its prestige is that Primavera Sound, Benicassim, Glasto, etc are all big regional festivals in huge regions. The result is that headline acts, etc get a massive boost in streaming, radio play and general interest in the area, even from people not coming to see them live. Bands routinely get a 200%+ boost in album sales after Glasto, for e.g. http://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/glastonbury-performers-are-set-to-dominate-official-albums-chart-including-radiohead-foo-fighters-and-the-bee-gees__19507/, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/glastonbury/10331053/Playing-Glastonbury-can-increase-album-sales-twentyfold.html
It's why Coachella and Glasto have routinely booked bands that don't typically play festivals- Stevie Wonder at Glasto is just the one example where he played for a substantially lower fee because it was offset by a huge boost in chart sales, radio play, etc.
That said, I don't think EP has struggled to compete for headliners as a matter of finance or prestige.
Something else that can be an issue for EP vs Primavera or Glasto is the time of year it is on. If, say, Arcade Fire are in Europe in late May or June for Primavera, Glasto or Wertcher (early July), there's a much lower logistical chance they'll still be around for late August/September. And while some people adore the fest and want to play every year (AF, the National, Interpol, LCD Soundsystem just some of those that reportedly love the place), sometimes you just have to be practical and play a standalone show instead of hanging around/flying back for/after the extra month. See Arcade Fire in Malahide this year as the most obvious example in recent times.
Ireland is, in the grand scheme of it all, a small musical market. Our festival is big - 50k+ is impressive regardless of where it ranks in the global list of festival capacities - but it encompasses a huge portion of the country's entire music market. Duran Duran and ATCQ, for e.g., didn't get a huge spin-off in sales, etc in Ireland after EP like they would had they played the same slots at other major European festivals because of population.
It is a small detail in the grand scheme of it, but it is another one to add to the list.
But, like I said up the top there, it doesn't seem to have impacted on the EP line-ups over the years - I mean, just look at the list of headline acts. They may not be to everyone's taste but they are part of the clutch playing every other festival in the world too. What else can EP be expected to do?0 -
Seathrun66 wrote: »Sorry man, but your posts are incessantly negative. And given what EP offers across dozens of stages, wholly unmerited.
But hey, it's all subjective & I hope you get the festival you want next year.
I'm female, by the way.
"Incessantly negative" is very harsh. Personally I thought it was a mature, measured discussion about EP and other festivals.0 -
EP tickets are around an extra 30-50 euro too, maybe acts are charging more but it seems to have only weakened FR festivals not any of the European ones like Primavera or Best Kept SecretLotus Flower wrote: »Seathrun66 wrote: »Benicassim is 30,000 according to efestivals.co.uk and festivalmag.com, the two most reliable sources I've found when researching fests. In terms of a Benicassim stage (undoubtedly the main stage) having a 30k capacity that's probably true. I'd also expect the EP main stage has a capacity of 55k should the entire fest decide to watch the headliner, uncomfortable though that would be. I'd expect it to be a health & safety stipulation to cover that situation.
And let's face it, an event on the Castellón coast or in Barcelona are always going to be more glamorous than a soggy field in Laois, but we still get people travelling distances to get to Stradbally. The EP lineups have historically compared very favourably to similar or larger sized fests elsewhere in Europe.
In 2005 I watched Goldfrapp, Arcade Fire, Royksōpp & Kraftwerk in succession at the EA. In 2007 we had the Beastie Boys, Sonic Youth, LCD Soundsystem, Jesus & Mary Chain, Bjork, The Stooges & many more, three of those it's now no longer possible to see. 2015 was Blur, Manics, Interpol, Underworld, Mos Def, Despacio, Tame Impala, War on Drugs & many other top acts. Look back over the lineups and every year has some pretty special stuff.
We don't ever match the stunning Primavera lineups, but how can anybody else compete given their sponsorship deals with Heineken, Red Bull & others alongside the funds they get from the city of Barcelona & Catalan government. Bear that in mind when downgrading EP, and realise that for all its faults Oxegen also had great lineups but similarly wasn't well known throughout Europe or North America. Maybe we're not shouting loudly enough?
You do realise Heineken and Red Bull also sponsor EP? Not to mention the other sponsors they have. EP is not exactly strapped for cash so that's an invalid defence. And yes, I fully agree that there has been some special stuff on the line-up over the years but you can't deny the decline. Maybe that's why your most recent citation was 2015
That has nothing to do with it being a "soggy field in Laois" (weather and fields don't stop people going in their droves to British festivals) or that we're not shouting loud enough or whatever. When it comes down to it, the quality has declined and that's just a fact.0 -
It does make you think though why certain acts have evaded the EP radar, obviously I'm gonna mention Aphex Twin, but then he played quite a considerable number of one day event festivals which seems to be his preference such as Forbidden Fruit, Field Day, Flow Festival, he did play a few camping festivals too such has the two Primaveras in Spain and Portugal and Mt Fuji in Japan. The Prodigy are another act full of famous nineties classics that have not graced the Stradbally stage, Cypress Hill was a missed opportunity this year. There is somethings I just don't understand in festival politics but all these acts mentioned would pull certain numbers at EP.
If you want to get into it, you got to get out of it. (Hawkwind 1982)
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Lotus Flower wrote: »Seathrun66 wrote: »Sorry man, but your posts are incessantly negative. And given what EP offers across dozens of stages, wholly unmerited.
But hey, it's all subjective & I hope you get the festival you want next year.
I'm female, by the way.
"Incessantly negative" is very harsh. Personally I thought it was a mature, measured discussion about EP and other festivals.
Lotus Flower, I accept that 'incessantly negative' is overly harsh and I apologise for that. I was also sincere when I said I hoped you have a great 2018 fest. What acts would restore your faith in FR?0 -
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bodhrandude wrote: »It does make you think though why certain acts have evaded the EP radar, obviously I'm gonna mention Aphex Twin, but then he played quite a considerable number of one day event festivals which seems to be his preference such as Forbidden Fruit, Field Day, Flow Festival, he did play a few camping festivals too such has the two Primaveras in Spain and Portugal and Mt Fuji in Japan. The Prodigy are another act full of famous nineties classics that have not graced the Stradbally stage, Cypress Hill was a missed opportunity this year. There is somethings I just don't understand in festival politics but all these acts mentioned would pull certain numbers at EP.
A lot of it comes down to logistics. Ep is at the end of the European festival season and most big acts would have their European legs completed by this time. With early sellouts the new organisers also seem less inclined to book the big acts though it was heartening to see the Friday lineup improved this year0 -
EP tickets are around an extra 30-50 euro too, maybe acts are charging more but it seems to have only weakened FR festivals not any of the European ones like Primavera or Best Kept SecretLotus Flower wrote: »Seathrun66 wrote: »Benicassim is 30,000 according to efestivals.co.uk and festivalmag.com, the two most reliable sources I've found when researching fests. In terms of a Benicassim stage (undoubtedly the main stage) having a 30k capacity that's probably true. I'd also expect the EP main stage has a capacity of 55k should the entire fest decide to watch the headliner, uncomfortable though that would be. I'd expect it to be a health & safety stipulation to cover that situation.
And let's face it, an event on the Castellón coast or in Barcelona are always going to be more glamorous than a soggy field in Laois, but we still get people travelling distances to get to Stradbally. The EP lineups have historically compared very favourably to similar or larger sized fests elsewhere in Europe.
In 2005 I watched Goldfrapp, Arcade Fire, Royksōpp & Kraftwerk in succession at the EA. In 2007 we had the Beastie Boys, Sonic Youth, LCD Soundsystem, Jesus & Mary Chain, Bjork, The Stooges & many more, three of those it's now no longer possible to see. 2015 was Blur, Manics, Interpol, Underworld, Mos Def, Despacio, Tame Impala, War on Drugs & many other top acts. Look back over the lineups and every year has some pretty special stuff.
We don't ever match the stunning Primavera lineups, but how can anybody else compete given their sponsorship deals with Heineken, Red Bull & others alongside the funds they get from the city of Barcelona & Catalan government. Bear that in mind when downgrading EP, and realise that for all its faults Oxegen also had great lineups but similarly wasn't well known throughout Europe or North America. Maybe we're not shouting loudly enough?
You do realise Heineken and Red Bull also sponsor EP? Not to mention the other sponsors they have. EP is not exactly strapped for cash so that's an invalid defence. And yes, I fully agree that there has been some special stuff on the line-up over the years but you can't deny the decline. Maybe that's why your most recent citation was 2015
That has nothing to do with it being a "soggy field in Laois" (weather and fields don't stop people going in their droves to British festivals) or that we're not shouting loud enough or whatever. When it comes down to it, the quality has declined and that's just a fact.
As per the above discussion Primavera has local & regional government money which ensures a regular stunning lineup, though I thought personally that this year was a bit flat. And PS provides for nothing beyond the music. Also factor in how much B&S, Trenchtown, Mindfield, Comedy tent, etc cost EP.
Best Kept Secret seems a bit top-heavy in terms of acts, great headliners but a poor mid & lower range. Albeit with two stunning headliners this year. Overall though I'd have EP as slightly better than both this year. But usually way behind PS.0 -
EP tickets are around an extra 30-50 euro too, maybe acts are charging more but it seems to have only weakened FR festivals not any of the European ones like Primavera or Best Kept SecretLotus Flower wrote: »Seathrun66 wrote: »Benicassim is 30,000 according to efestivals.co.uk and festivalmag.com, the two most reliable sources I've found when researching fests. In terms of a Benicassim stage (undoubtedly the main stage) having a 30k capacity that's probably true. I'd also expect the EP main stage has a capacity of 55k should the entire fest decide to watch the headliner, uncomfortable though that would be. I'd expect it to be a health & safety stipulation to cover that situation.
And let's face it, an event on the Castellón coast or in Barcelona are always going to be more glamorous than a soggy field in Laois, but we still get people travelling distances to get to Stradbally. The EP lineups have historically compared very favourably to similar or larger sized fests elsewhere in Europe.
In 2005 I watched Goldfrapp, Arcade Fire, Royksōpp & Kraftwerk in succession at the EA. In 2007 we had the Beastie Boys, Sonic Youth, LCD Soundsystem, Jesus & Mary Chain, Bjork, The Stooges & many more, three of those it's now no longer possible to see. 2015 was Blur, Manics, Interpol, Underworld, Mos Def, Despacio, Tame Impala, War on Drugs & many other top acts. Look back over the lineups and every year has some pretty special stuff.
We don't ever match the stunning Primavera lineups, but how can anybody else compete given their sponsorship deals with Heineken, Red Bull & others alongside the funds they get from the city of Barcelona & Catalan government. Bear that in mind when downgrading EP, and realise that for all its faults Oxegen also had great lineups but similarly wasn't well known throughout Europe or North America. Maybe we're not shouting loudly enough?
You do realise Heineken and Red Bull also sponsor EP? Not to mention the other sponsors they have. EP is not exactly strapped for cash so that's an invalid defence. And yes, I fully agree that there has been some special stuff on the line-up over the years but you can't deny the decline. Maybe that's why your most recent citation was 2015
That has nothing to do with it being a "soggy field in Laois" (weather and fields don't stop people going in their droves to British festivals) or that we're not shouting loud enough or whatever. When it comes down to it, the quality has declined and that's just a fact.
Factor in the early birds & loyalty tickets in your figures. Add in the cargo costs. Plus the money spent on the sheer amount of stuff there. EP I'd guess is unlikely to have more cash than comparatively sized fests.0 -
I've gone to the last 4 EP's and never met a single person from outside of Ireland there.
Yeah it's a big festival here but I doubt it's on many people's radars outside of Ireland. The cost of travel, tickets etc. aside if it was was really as amazing as some people would have you believe I think you'd have at least a few foreign visitors.0 -
Seathrun66 wrote: »As per the above discussion Primavera has local & regional government money which ensures a regular stunning lineup, though I thought personally that this year was a bit flat. And PS provides for nothing beyond the music. Also factor in how much B&S, Trenchtown, Mindfield, Comedy tent, etc cost EP.
Best Kept Secret seems a bit top-heavy in terms of acts, great headliners but a poor mid & lower range. Albeit with two stunning headliners this year. Overall though I'd have EP as slightly better than both this year. But usually way behind PS.
Primavera doesn't have Trenchtown or B and S or any other of those side attractions mentioned but you have to bear in mind it's not just a three day festival. There's gigs on Tuesday night in Barts and the Apolo, the free gigs in the forum on Wednesday night, the actual main festival on Thursday- Saturday and then finally, more gigs on Sunday night which are open to all.0 -
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Lotus Flower wrote: »Primavera doesn't have Trenchtown or B and S or any other of those side attractions mentioned but you have to bear in mind it's not just a three day festival. There's gigs on Tuesday night in Barts and the Apolo, the free gigs in the forum on Wednesday night, the actual main festival on Thursday- Saturday and then finally, more gigs on Sunday night which are open to all.
Would Primavera though have chill out areas where you could relax, sit down after all that gig watching. The Primavera line ups have me drooling at the mouth but it is also clash central as well and I honestly don't know if I would have the energy to watch one headliner after another like the way they present the acts on the final stage breakdown.If you want to get into it, you got to get out of it. (Hawkwind 1982)
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Seathrun66 wrote: »Lotus Flower, I accept that 'incessantly negative' is overly harsh and I apologise for that. I was also sincere when I said I hoped you have a great 2018 fest. What acts would restore your faith in FR?
Thank you! 😄
Essentially, if the line-up was similar to 2015 I would be tempted right back. That was the last time I went and it was amazing. Who would you like to see?0 -
I've gone to the last 4 EP's and never met a single person from outside of Ireland there.
Yeah it's a big festival here but I doubt it's on many people's radars outside of Ireland. The cost of travel, tickets etc. aside if it was was really as amazing as some people would have you believe I think you'd have at least a few foreign visitors.
Glaswegisn security??
But otherwise yeah, you're right. I've met some English who've travelled there & loved it. Also some English pals came over years ago. And an Israeli brother of a pal who'd flown over. Many Irish travel back from abroad too & some non-Irish based in Ireland. Have met Germans & Poles.
But the numbers are tiny compared to other major European fests. Many overseas friend want to come but the timing of the festival doesn't suit them. An Irish camping festival in early September is a hard sell.0 -
bodhrandude wrote: »Would Primavera though have chill out areas where you could relax, sit down after all that gig watching. The Primavera line ups have me drooling at the mouth but it is also clash central as well and I honestly don't know if I would have the energy to watch one headliner after another like the way they present the acts on the final stage breakdown.
Relaxing is for after the festival!0 -
bodhrandude wrote: »Lotus Flower wrote: »Primavera doesn't have Trenchtown or B and S or any other of those side attractions mentioned but you have to bear in mind it's not just a three day festival. There's gigs on Tuesday night in Barts and the Apolo, the free gigs in the forum on Wednesday night, the actual main festival on Thursday- Saturday and then finally, more gigs on Sunday night which are open to all.
Would Primavera though have chill out areas where you could relax, sit down after all that gig watching. The Primavera line ups have me drooling at the mouth but it is also clash central as well and I honestly don't know if I would have the energy to watch one headliner after another like the way they present the acts on the final stage breakdown.
No chill out areas at all. Much soundclash. And even in the dining areas you're pulverised by noise. No camping either so it's hotel/hostel/flat & usually pretty expensive.
Against that the lineups are almost always sensational & you have all day hanging around a great city before heading to the fest at 4/5 or later.0 -
Seathrun66 wrote: »No chill out areas at all. Much soundclash. And even in the dining areas you're pulverised by noise. No camping wither so it's hotel/hostel/flat & usually pretty expensive.
Against that the lineup are almost always sensational & you have all day hanging around a great city before heading to the fest at 4/5 or later.
I agree that the food area can be a bit "manic"!0 -
Lotus Flower wrote: »Seathrun66 wrote: »Lotus Flower, I accept that 'incessantly negative' is overly harsh and I apologise for that. I was also sincere when I said I hoped you have a great 2018 fest. What acts would restore your faith in FR?
Thank you! 😄
Essentially, if the line-up was similar to 2015 I would be tempted right back. That was the last time I went and it was amazing. Who would you like to see?
Would love Tame Impala, Aphex Twin, SLF, Courtney Barnett, Edwyn Collins, The The & Gemma Hayes to think of a few. But essentially I'm happy when I have 6/7 solid acts to catch. Always great new stuff on offer there, much of it recommended by people here.0 -
Lollapalooza announced their South American tour for 2018 - three festivals, same (I think) acts on all three. Wasn't much crossover last year - headline acts were Metallica, the Strokes, the Weeknd and the xx, though Duran Duran were on there too - but gives an idea of who is playing live next year.
Pearl Jam, RHCP, the Killers, Imagine Dragons, Lana del Ray, LCD Soundsystem, Chance the Rapper top the bill, with Liam Gallagher, the National, David Byrne, Royal Blood, Tyler the Creator, Mac Miller, Anderson Paak and Mac de Marco among the more interesting names on the rest of the bill.
I'd like to get Chance over this side of the world actually. Believe he cancelled his last scheduled Irish show in the Helix, not sure if he came back or rescheduled it.
David Byrne, though? Yes please.0 -
Imagine Pearl Jam headlining? That would be pretty cool.0
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Hard to compare Primavera with EP I think. Not much to do at Primavera aside from the music, whereas EP has a lot to do, Primavera doesn't have any quirky little stages such as the Trailer Park, Salty Dog, Body & Soul areq etc. which is probably one of the best things about EP. That said, Primavera probably gets the best lineup in Europe other than Glastonbury, which would people rather? I think I would rather Picnic to be honest.
Also, is the EP lineup actually getting weaker? I think this years was the weakest in a while but I don't think it has necessarily be getting worse every year. A combination of nostalgia and posters growing older I would say is a factor in people thinking the line ups are getting worse, probably is going a bit more main stream as well but still gets a very strong lineup every year.0 -
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Ferris_Bueller wrote: »Hard to compare Primavera with EP I think. Not much to do at Primavera aside from the music, whereas EP has a lot to do, Primavera doesn't have any quirky little stages such as the Trailer Park, Salty Dog, Body & Soul are etc. which is probably one of the best things about EP. That said, Primavera probably gets the best lineup in Europe other than Glastonbury, which would people rather? I think I would rather Picnic to be honest.
Also, is the EP lineup actually getting weaker? I think this years was the weakest in a while but I don't think it has necessarily be getting worse every year. A combination of nostalgia and posters growing older I would say is a factor in people the line ups are getting worse, probably is going a bit more main stream as well but still gets a very strong lineup every year.
For an alternative audience, yes, I believe it has gotten weaker. Taking the last three years as an example, 2015 had so much quality, 2016 less so and this year even less so still (compared to other years) This is not me EP bashing as there have undoubtedly been gems and hidden treasures across the line-up but overall it is simply not as good.
Not sure age comes into it. Nostalgia is hard to avoid- even if QOTSA, Radiohead and the resurrected Beatles headlined, there'd still be people claiming "it was better back in the day". It's safe to say this happens with almost every single festival0 -
Ferris_Bueller wrote: »Hard to compare Primavera with EP I think. Not much to do at Primavera aside from the music, whereas EP has a lot to do, Primavera doesn't have any quirky little stages such as the Trailer Park, Salty Dog, Body & Soul areq etc. which is probably one of the best things about EP. That said, Primavera probably gets the best lineup in Europe other than Glastonbury, which would people rather? I think I would rather Picnic to be honest.
Also, is the EP lineup actually getting weaker? I think this years was the weakest in a while but I don't think it has necessarily be getting worse every year. A combination of nostalgia and posters growing older I would say is a factor in people thinking the line ups are getting worse, probably is going a bit more main stream as well but still gets a very strong lineup every year.
I preferred my last Primavera to my last Picnic, but it was largely down to a mix of a few things. The weather was killer - it's so nice to be able to spend the entire time in shorts and not worry about hypothermia - and it just had a line up that appealed more to my taste. Discovered a lot of new things as well as seeing some old favourites.
What Primavera doesn't have is character. It is just bleak stages, bleak arenas and sponsorship. It doesn't bother me because I spend my Picnic cramming in a lot of music anyway rather than enjoying the likes of Trailer Park etc but it would depend on the person, wouldn't it?0 -
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Primavera for me. I only go to EP these days because there's usually plenty of acts I want to see and it's 30mins down the motorway.Ferris_Bueller wrote: »Hard to compare Primavera with EP I think. Not much to do at Primavera aside from the music, whereas EP has a lot to do, Primavera doesn't have any quirky little stages such as the Trailer Park, Salty Dog, Body & Soul areq etc. which is probably one of the best things about EP. That said, Primavera probably gets the best lineup in Europe other than Glastonbury, which would people rather? I think I would rather Picnic to be honest.
Also, is the EP lineup actually getting weaker? I think this years was the weakest in a while but I don't think it has necessarily be getting worse every year. A combination of nostalgia and posters growing older I would say is a factor in people thinking the line ups are getting worse, probably is going a bit more main stream as well but still gets a very strong lineup every year.
if there wasn't a lineup that appealed to me, I'd gladly save the 500ish quid and not bother.
after going to EP for 12 years, I don't remotely care about B&S, Salty Dog, Trenchtown, Trailer Park etc. as areas anymore and barely spend any time in them.0 -
It's interesting to hear different perspectives on it, went to my first Primavera this year and thought it was incredible. Musically the best festival I've ever been to and having the weather is a massive bonus, saw probably twice as many acts as I would at a weekend festival in Ireland, but still it was missing something that Picnic has that I really enjoy.
Went looking at all of the EP lineups from the last 10 years tonight to see if I do think the lineups are getting worse year after year, I think they have become more commercial in the last 3 years or so but overall I would still think there are more acts I like than there would have been in say 2007 or 2008 (festival has grown a lot in fairness). 2014 or 2012 were the best lineups for me.0 -
Ferris_Bueller wrote: »It's interesting to hear different perspectives on it, went to my first Primavera this year and thought it was incredible. Musically the best festival I've ever been to and having the weather is a massive bonus, saw probably twice as many acts as I would at a weekend festival in Ireland, but still it was missing something that Picnic has that I really enjoy.
Went looking at all of the EP lineups from the last 10 years tonight to see if I do think the lineups are getting worse year after year, I think they have become more commercial in the last 3 years or so but overall I would still think there are more acts I like than there would have been in say 2007 or 2008 (festival has grown a lot in fairness). 2014 or 2012 were the best lineups for me.
Grass, fields and trees, thats what i hear anyway, its mainly on concrete isn't it.If you want to get into it, you got to get out of it. (Hawkwind 1982)
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Yes. Little grass there so it ends up being tough on your spine. There's also an indoor seated auditorium with decent acts on where you can sometimes chill & rest your back but you have to queue for it, and often for lengthy periods. The beer is also expensive & I from what I remember the food wasn't great (last there in 2010 so I could be very wrong). However, the negative aspects of it are balanced out by having a long weekend in Barcelona and there being usually the best European line-up. All other festivals have a fair bit of dross (Glasto included). Primavera has hardly any.bodhrandude wrote: »Ferris_Bueller wrote: »It's interesting to hear different perspectives on it, went to my first Primavera this year and thought it was incredible. Musically the best festival I've ever been to and having the weather is a massive bonus, saw probably twice as many acts as I would at a weekend festival in Ireland, but still it was missing something that Picnic has that I really enjoy.
Went looking at all of the EP lineups from the last 10 years tonight to see if I do think the lineups are getting worse year after year, I think they have become more commercial in the last 3 years or so but overall I would still think there are more acts I like than there would have been in say 2007 or 2008 (festival has grown a lot in fairness). 2014 or 2012 were the best lineups for me.
Grass, fields and trees, thats what i hear anyway, its mainly on concrete isn't it.0 -
Seathrun66 wrote: »All other festivals have a fair bit of dross (Glasto included). Primavera has hardly any.
Glastonbury has such a scale of options at any point, that nobody could complain about having to endure dross. Always something great going on.0 -
Glastonbury has such a scale of options at any point, that nobody could complain about having to endure dross. Always something great going on.
The same is true of EP though. I'm always baffled by people getting bent out of shape by a particular act or commercial stage, when there's always 20 other things to go see.0 -
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Myself and pals thinking of going to Primavera in Portugal next year. Have my EP tickets already but haven't been to a festival abroad in 3 years so would like to see what Primavera is like. Although the comments make it sound a little souless. I love the music aspect but I think I have some of my favourite memories at the random things Ive seen at EP. I LOVE the Trailer Park, its a great place to chill out and watch the mad stuff going on.0
This discussion has been closed.
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