Employer Questions

thatsgimpish

Hi there,

I've worked in a small shop for almost 10 years now.
Recently it has been taken over by a new owner(about a year and a half now) and I've a few questions if anyone knows the answers.

She is the tightest woman with money I've ever met. Even though I'm the longest person there, I'm not even a euro over the minimum wage per hour. We have had new staff recently and they're on the same rate as I am even though I've had to train them etc. ridiculous.

I've noticed she pays her husband, whom I've never met a certain amount of hours per week. I'm wondering is this legal? Obviously he has nothing to do with the place and it saves her tax wise at the end of the year maybe but is this legal to have him on the books and paid even though he definitely does not work here?

Another thing is we don't get breaks, there's only two of us here most of the time so even if we were to sit down and eat for a minute or two you'd be called back up all the time when it gets busy or even just for safety I couldn't just leave someone out on the floor themselves. (I've been robbed too many times for that). I get paid all the way through for hours worked so is it even worth complaining about?

The job has really gotten to me lately and taken it's toll on my mental health. From getting paid buttons to being treated like dirt by customers I'm trying to find a way out of it and a better job but I'd like to know this information first before I say anything to my employer.

Regards,

K

davo10

Yes it is legal to pay her husband. She can pay whomever she wants as much as she wants, as long as it's above minimum wage.

Here's a simple home truth, if you are still being paid minimum wage after 10 years of service, there is only one person to blame, and it isn't the employer.

Tenigate

You are entitled to breaks. If breaks aren't practical, employer must provide an alternative like a TV. However, the reality in small retail businesses is that a solid 15mins away from the shop aren't always practical.

Yes, it's legal for her to pay her husband.

And I echo davo's point. If you're not happy to be paid minimum wage, why are you working in a minimum wage job? Showing a new employee the ropes doesn't merit a payrise - and if that was your rationale, and you had a different job title, wouldn't your employer be tempted to roster cheaper "regular" employees than you?

Another point.. have you ever asked for a payrise? If you were offered an extra 30c an hour, would the extra €10 a week make you any happier in the job?

seamus

thatsgimpish wrote: »

She is the tightest woman with money I've ever met. Even though I'm the longest person there, I'm not even a euro over the minimum wage per hour. We have had new staff recently and they're on the same rate as I am even though I've had to train them etc. ridiculous.

As others have said, there is no obligation on any employer to voluntarily increase your wages. If you feel you're worth more to them, you have to fight your own corner and ask for an increase.

I've noticed she pays her husband, whom I've never met a certain amount of hours per week. I'm wondering is this legal? Obviously he has nothing to do with the place and it saves her tax wise at the end of the year maybe but is this legal to have him on the books and paid even though he definitely does not work here?

Sure. He's not in the shop, but you don't know what he's doing behind the scenes. One small business owner I know pays his girlfriend a wage from the business because she does all the accounting and marketing. If you were to ask one of his lads they would say she doesn't work for the company at all.

For all you know, he's sitting at home doing those few hours a week.

Another thing is we don't get breaks, there's only two of us here most of the time so even if we were to sit down and eat for a minute or two you'd be called back up all the time when it gets busy or even just for safety I couldn't just leave someone out on the floor themselves. (I've been robbed too many times for that). I get paid all the way through for hours worked so is it even worth complaining about?

That's a little bit clearer. As in, yes, you're entitled to breaks.

If it's impractical or "unsafe" to leave one person on their own, then the onus is on the employer to cover that by hiring another person or changing the environment to make it practical.

There are some exemptions, but they don't apply in your case, assuming it's a retail business. You are entitled to 15 minutes after 4.5 hours work, and 15 minutes after 6 hours work. This can be consolidated into a single 30-minute break after 6 hours. The break is unpaid.

As a shop employee, there is one specific requirement in your case:
"Shop employees who work more than 6 hours and whose hours of work include 11.30am–2.30pm are entitled to a one-hour consecutive break which must occur during those hours."

While employers in reality are supposed to force employees to go on break, realistically there's not much they can do if an employee insists on skipping their break. So if you're happy with the arrangement where you work through, get paid for all your hours and just grab some food on the go, then that's up to you.

An employer who allows this to happen is a bit silly because a disgruntled employee could use it against them, but plenty of employers do it.

thatsgimpish

Hi, thanks for replies.

That's my main question answered anyway about the husband. I know for sure that he does nothing to do with business so she's just paying him for nothing basically.

About the breaks, I guess I am happier just to work through even though unfair I'm almost used to not having a break and just having a bite on the go.

About my wage, I have asked many times for an increase, nothing being done "can't afford it" , "maybe when business picks up" etc. Even when my last increase was agreed maybe 3 or 4 years ago, I asked every week as it hadn't been put up yet "oh yes must ring about that". Just delaying it as much as possible.

My title would be supervisor , I'm a key holder, count tills , do all the money at end of shifts, deal with reps and do orders etc. so you'd think I'd be worth more than the new people coming in that I have to train but obviously not.

I take all your points about if not happy being paid minimum wage in a minimum wage job I can't exactly just leave it either. Finances are already tight so I'm stuck doing what I have to do to make ends meet unfortunately. But I am and have been trying to get out of there.

smeal

I take all your points about if not happy being paid minimum wage in a minimum wage job I can't exactly just leave it either. Finances are already tight so I'm stuck doing what I have to do to make ends meet unfortunately. But I am and have been trying to get out of there.

Nobody is telling you to hand in your notice right now and walk away jobless. You obviously have a fairly decent level of competence to be in a position to control orders and money. Re-jig your CV, do an evening computer course if your computer skills aren't up to scratch, get in touch with a recruitment consultant and get looking for something else! If you really wanted out of there you'd be gone already!

davo10

thatsgimpish wrote: »

Hi, thanks for replies.

That's my main question answered anyway about the husband. I know for sure that he does nothing to do with business so she's just paying him for nothing basically.

About the breaks, I guess I am happier just to work through even though unfair I'm almost used to not having a break and just having a bite on the go.

About my wage, I have asked many times for an increase, nothing being done "can't afford it" , "maybe when business picks up" etc. Even when my last increase was agreed maybe 3 or 4 years ago, I asked every week as it hadn't been put up yet "oh yes must ring about that". Just delaying it as much as possible.

My title would be supervisor , I'm a key holder, count tills , do all the money at end of shifts, deal with reps and do orders etc. so you'd think I'd be worth more than the new people coming in that I have to train but obviously not.

I take all your points about if not happy being paid minimum wage in a minimum wage job I can't exactly just leave it either. Finances are already tight so I'm stuck doing what I have to do to make ends meet unfortunately. But I am and have been trying to get out of there.

Married couples are jointly assessed for tax purposes so every business owner would have their spouse on the payroll to maximise tax allowance. Absolutely nothing unusual about this, the business would still be paying employers PRSI on wage and statutory levies would be deducted.

Op, if you do not like the wage, then see if you can get a job which pays more, if you find one then your current employer either matches it or you take the other job.

MackMack

If the husband doesn't do any work for the shop but get's paid to save on the wifes tax bill then Revenue will come down on her like a ton of bricks when they eventually find out. Paying a spouse like that to reduce tax bills is actually "illegal"

davo10

MackMack wrote: »

If the husband doesn't do any work for the shop but get's paid to save on the wifes tax bill then Revenue will come down on her like a ton of bricks when they eventually find out. Paying a spouse like that to reduce tax bills is actually "illegal"

He's a business consultant/advisor, spouses always are.

Neon_Lights

davo10 wrote: »

He's a business consultant/advisor, spouses always are.

Directors Remuneration

Pelvis

As someone else said, with your experience and duties it shouldn't be too hard to do up the CV and find a better paid job.

AndrewJRenko

davo10 wrote: »

He's a business consultant/advisor, spouses always are.

Neon_Lights wrote: »

Directors Remuneration

You can nod and wink as much as you like, but if he's being paid for no work, that is tax fraud.

Neon_Lights

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You can nod and wink as much as you like, but if he's being paid for no work, that is tax fraud.

Not necessarily as a business owner as long as it's correctly taxed they can do whatever they God damn like

davo10

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You can nod and wink as much as you like, but if he's being paid for no work, that is tax fraud.

There is no nodding nor winking, you are perfectly entitled to pay a spouse. Who knows, he might be doing the accounts, advising on business strategies etc etc etc. He doesn't have to be sweeping the floor to be involved in the business. Besides which, it's really none of your business who your employer pays.

AndrewJRenko

Neon_Lights wrote: »

Not necessarily as a business owner as long as it's correctly taxed they can do whatever they God damn like

Eh no, they can't - if they are reducing taxable profits through fraudulent employment, that's an issue for Revenue.

From http://www.fenero.ie/top-tax-tips-for-limited-companies-and-the-self-employed-in-2013/

REMUNERATING YOUR SPOUSE
If you are married and your spouse is not working or is not maximising the use of their own personal tax credits and tax bands, it may be possible to employ and remunerate the spouse from your company in order to maximise use of the tax credits and 20% tax rate band. Not all tax credits and bands are transferable between spouses so the best way to make use of them is to remunerate both spouses from the business. This can result in significant income tax savings for the married couple.

It is important that such a salary is reasonable and reflective of the work actually carried out by the spouse. This work could include a whole host of tasks that spouses often find themselves doing in support of their partner’s business, for example services as company director, general bookkeeping or administration services.

davo10

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Eh no, they can't - if they are reducing taxable profits through fraudulent employment, that's an issue for Revenue.

From http://www.fenero.ie/top-tax-tips-for-limited-companies-and-the-self-employed-in-2013/

Why didn't you highlight the rest of the second paragraph? It is probably more pertinent.

"This work could include a whole host of tasks that spouses often find themselves doing in support of their partner’s business, for example services as company director, general bookkeeping or administration services."

AndrewJRenko

davo10 wrote: »

Why didn't you highlight the rest of the second paragraph? It is probably more pertinent.

"This work could include a whole host of tasks that spouses often find themselves doing in support of their partner’s business, for example services as company director, general bookkeeping or administration services."

Because that refers to doing actual work, unlike the posts I was countering which were about giving money for nothing.

Tenigate

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Because that refers to doing actual work, unlike the posts I was countering which were about giving money for nothing.

More than likely the husband is a company director. Just by signing the annual return he could be entitled to director remuneration. So I think you should stop arguing about a well made point (regardless of the wink)

AndrewJRenko

Tenigate wrote: »

More than likely the husband is a company director. Just by signing the annual return he could be entitled to director remuneration. So I think you should stop arguing about a well made point (regardless of the wink)

Directors remuneration isn't usually paid for 'certain amount of hours per week'.

"I've noticed she pays her husband, whom I've never met a certain amount of hours per week.

Tenigate

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Directors remuneration isn't usually paid for 'certain amount of hours per week'.

Exactly!
So just because op doesn't see the director with a sweeping brush in his hand doesn't mean he's not entitled to a taxable salary.

AndrewJRenko

Tenigate wrote: »

Exactly!
So just because op doesn't see the director with a sweeping brush in his hand doesn't mean he's not entitled to a taxable salary.

That's true - though the original point that I contracted was "Not necessarily as a business owner as long as it's correctly taxed they can do whatever they God damn like" - That is untrue.

Pkiernan

davo10 wrote: »

He's a business consultant/advisor, spouses always are.

Revenue require that paid employees are qualifed to do the work they are paid for.

davo10

Pkiernan wrote: »

Revenue require that paid employees are qualifed to do the work they are paid for.

That's interesting, I didn't know that. Must admit, in the last 20 years Revenue have never once asked for the CV of any of the many people who work for me, nor have they asked for the qualifications of my fellow directors, maybe that is unusual, but I'll check the qualification of the lady who is employed to clean the place, just in case.

It's good to know that only "qualified" people can be company directors/advisors, after all, who ever heard of an unqualified person starting a business, owning a business or running a business on behalf of someone else.

Just had a quick look through Bobby Kerr's bio, though it mentions he attended DIT, there is no mention of graduation nor qualification. Someone better tell Dragons Den, he's not qualified to be a company director/advisor, Revenue could be on to them.

But let's assume you don't mean "qualified" in the literal sense, then the spuose's qualifications are less quantifiable, many spouses give a different perspective on how the business should run, many carry out tasks that do not involve them standing on the shop floor, many do the accounts, do the ordering, pay the invoices etc which other employees may not see, many do social media work on business site from the comfort of their home. You don't know, and your statement above is open to debate.

kurtainsider

To get back to the OP's issue:

Yes - the employer sounds like a stingy, exploitative and not very nice person. However, if you're still on minimum wage after 10 years of doing a responsible job the ONLY person to hold responsible if yourself. I'm not saying this to be mean - you are the person best placed to improve your lot.

Exploitation and pi** taking requires 2 parties to be successful. You can only control the actions of one of those parties to that's the person who's actions you need to consider. Find another job. Have you an up to date CV? Are you on the job websites and banging CV's off to potential employers? It's all in your own hands.

cnoc

OP - were you paid more than the minimum wage with the previous employer?