Unlimited electricity - €70 per month

unkel

You must have been on brutal rates before. €20 per month extra for 900kWh is just over 2c per kWh while you're obviously paying 6.35c

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

You must have been on brutal rates before. €20 per month extra for 900kWh is just over 2c per kWh while you're obviously paying 6.35c

yes , and pushing the dishwasher and washing machine.dryer, made a big saving

unkel

BoatMad wrote: »

yes , and pushing the dishwasher and washing machine.dryer, made a big saving

Run both 4 times a week at night rate vs day rate and you're saving yourself:

2 machines * 1kWh use per machine cycle * 4 times a week * 4 weeks per month * (15c-6.35c) = less than €3 per month. Not really a big saving. Particularly not if you had to buy a few (cheap) timers for it

la ultima guagua

Now I see why you guys have no worries about blowing the main fuse.

( In a winter 2 month billing period we would use as much as any of you seem to use in a year )

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

Run both 4 times a week at night rate vs day rate and you're saving yourself:

2 machines * 1kWh use per machine cycle * 4 times a week * 4 weeks per month * (15c-6.35c) = less than €3 per month. Not really a big saving. Particularly not if you had to buy a few (cheap) timers for it

Ive actually profiled my dishwasher and washing machine dryer

2 units per night dishwater on ECO cycle

4-6 units with washer dryer in winter

all cold water fill

washing machine used 5 nights out of 7 ,m dishwasher used 6 nights out of seven

thats upwards of 8 units in total or 8.50 euros a week, or 33-35 euros a months

this reduced to 6,35 a unit now, i.e. around 12 euros , providing a 20 odd savings a month , car then increased that by average 20-25 a month, so net car increase over old bill around 40-45 a month , offset by savings on washing machine and dishwasher

( note both washing machine and dishwasher are new 2016 machine , BEKO and Bosch and A rated )

unkel

BoatMad wrote: »

2 units per night dishwater on ECO cycle

Are you sure? My own Bosch dishwasher is 15 years old. I profiled it on the normal 65C cycle (there is no ECO cycle on this old beast) and it used 1.4kWh

Any newish Bosch should use a lot less than my old one. Particularly on an ECO cycle.

And I didn't spot that your washing machine was actually a washer / dryer. Drying uses a lot of electricity.

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

Are you sure? My own Bosch dishwasher is 15 years old. I profiled it on the normal 65C cycle (there is no ECO cycle on this old beast) and it used 1.4kWh

Any newish Bosch should use a lot less than my old one. Particularly on an ECO cycle.

And I didn't spot that your washing machine was actually a washer / dryer. Drying uses a lot of electricity.

The dish wash cycle is 3 hours and consumes a variable amount ranging from around 1.5 to 2 units , with the majority closer to 2 , The ECO cycle is designed to minimise water and powered consumption, but is not the lowest of the electricity consumption cycles

the dryer is of course a high consumer

n97 mini

BoatMad wrote: »

The dish wash cycle is 3 hours and consumes a variable amount ranging from around 1.5 to 2 units , with the majority closer to 2 , The ECO cycle is designed to minimise water and powered consumption, but is not the lowest of the electricity consumption cycles

the dryer is of course a high consumer

Sounds like you have the same dishwasher as we do, a DSFN 6839?

I bought it at a time when water charges were supposed to be coming in as it only uses 6 litres on Eco. But since we're now not paying for water but are paying for electricity, it would make sense to use a different programme to Eco... one that uses less electricity (assuming it cleans as well).

The controller board has already been replaced on ours, but the replacement developed the exact same fault around 9 months later whereby to change programme you have to reset the machine first, a process which is a pita as it takes a minute or two, and then the Programme button becomes responsive again.

cros13

Background electricity use in most houses with the fridge, freezer and other background use tends to be in the region of 300-500W for the whole nine hours.

For 500W that's 4.5kWh every night (~1644/annum) + any appliance use.

unkel

That seems a bit high seeing as I have the biggest (non US style) fridge there was and my total annual consumption without car is 3500/annum

My night use of that would be about 1000, including most dish washer runs. I do go to bed late, so there's a good bit of general house use in there too (PC, TV, kettle, etc.)

5 person family, someone in the house at least 80% of 24/7, house size about 145m2. And we're not particularly frugal with electricity.

n97 mini

cros13 wrote: »

Background electricity use in most houses with the fridge, freezer and other background use tends to be in the region of 300-500W for the whole nine hours.

For 500W that's 4.5kWh every night (~1644/annum) + any appliance use.

In my experience the "little red lights" are the worst offenders. i.e. electronics on stand-by. With nothing on our background consumption is about 250 watts. If I unplug the xboxes (2), tv, broadband modem and satellite receiver that drops by 150 watts.

unkel

It's worth your while doing a wee "audit". You can buy one of those yokes that you plug your appliancein, in Aldi/Lidl for a tenner and test your appliances. I've found some TVs / Satellite or cable receivers use a fraction of a Watt when on standbye, so no point unplugging them. Some 20W. So one of the latter could use 175kWh per year (5% of the total annual electricity use for an average household). Still I find unplugging things a pain in the neck and tend not to do it (unless going on holidays)

n97 mini

unkel wrote: »

I've found some TVs / Satellite or cable receivers use a fraction of a Watt when on standbye, so no point unplugging them. Some 20W. So one of the latter could use 175kWh per year (5% of the total annual electricity use for an average household). Still I find unplugging things a pain in the neck and tend not to do it (unless going on holidays)

Not quite.

Virgin Media's Hub 3.0 uses about 30 watts all the time (no standby).
Most satellite receivers don't go into standby at all, they just turn off the screen output. Mine uses 30 to 40 watts all the time, depending on what it's doing.
TVs, yes, a couple of watts maybe in standby (need to measure it).
Xbox One has two standby modes, 15 watt is the default.

unkel

n97 mini wrote: »

Not quite.

I think we actually agree on this

And you've obviously done your audits too. I really can't bring myself to switching any of the stand-by devices off though.

n97 mini

unkel wrote: »

I think we actually agree on this

And you've obviously done your audits too. I really can't bring myself to switching any of the stand-by devices off though.

We sort of do, but I think you're underestimating a little.

I have all those devices plugged into a plug board, so they can all be switched off on a single switch. Not that that ever really happens....

unkel

Yes I probably am underestimating. I audited a few years ago and the UPC Horizon box was bad. Still have that. And since then we got the always on Hub 3, which you say is also bad. Between those two alone the consumption would probably be more than 10% of my total consumption, which is crazy really. We have no game computers in use, just tablets and phones. And charging them is only a few hours a day at a low wattage, so they are pretty much immaterial.

I remember my Gen 1 Sky + box, pressing the standby button only turned the LED from green to red, that's all it did. Power consumption stayed exactly the same around 40 watts. Incredible I thought at the time but most sat receivers and pretty much anything that has to be awake to record is going to have to consume a lot of power.

I've long since gotten rid of Sky, thankfully. But the other receiver I have is pretty much the same only it consumes less power.

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

Background electricity use in most houses with the fridge, freezer and other background use tends to be in the region of 300-500W for the whole nine hours.

For 500W that's 4.5kWh every night (~1644/annum) + any appliance use.

my house quiescent consumption is 1.5 units per day when not occupied, i.e. fridge ( US style dual compressor ) , TV on standby, and various computers on standby etc

grogi

n97 mini wrote: »

In my experience the "little red lights" are the worst offenders. i.e. electronics on stand-by. With nothing on our background consumption is about 250 watts. If I unplug the xboxes (2), tv, broadband modem and satellite receiver that drops by 150 watts.

So you say it is average of 30W per device? That is A LOT, unbelievable A LOT actually... I would expect 5W tops...

My house demand ticking over right now is 60 watts with no heavy loads in use.

unkel

He's right. I'm pretty sure the Horizon box was something like 20W continuous (in stand-by) when I checked it last a few years ago. If I get a chance I'll check it again this weekend and also the Media Hub 3. The latter is always on (no stand-by)

grogi

unkel wrote: »

He's right. I'm pretty sure the Horizon box was something like 20W continuous (in stand-by) when I checked it last a few years ago. If I get a chance I'll check it again this weekend and also the Media Hub 3. The latter is always on (no stand-by)

But all those boxed are not really idle. They constantly monitor the scheduled recordings etc. XBox is similar, listening all the time... Luckily I don't have any of those

A dumb TV that is simply switched off should not consume more than the 5W.

unkel

Sure. But we are talking about those boxes and I have 2 off them (always on)

unkel

And.....


....I've switched.

Total cost for the year €703 (pretty much exactly what I have paid over the past 12 months based on 3,5k kWh. Waiting for them to confirm it is indeed fixed total cost, no matter how much I use (and no, I won't go anywhere near the 10k kWh, but I am likely to go over what I used up to now)

KCross

unkel wrote: »

And.....


....I've switched.

Total cost for the year €703 (pretty much exactly what I have paid over the past 12 months based on 3,5k kWh. Waiting for them to confirm it is indeed fixed total cost, no matter how much I use (and no, I won't go anywhere near the 10k kWh, but I am likely to go over what I used up to now)

So, taking out PSO levy (€80) and Standing charge (€160), 3500kWh is going to cost you ~€460 so about 13c/kWh.

Thats not actually great as an overall price to pay when you have a day/night meter which can give you power at 6c/kWh but since you are going to increase your usage beyond 3500kWh and hopefully get that for free you should come out on top. It also has the added advantage that you can charge the EV at any time of the day and not care about whether it is day or night rate.

I look forward to your end of contract "review" in a years time!

Methinks they will add an EV exclusion clause next year!

unkel

Not sure about your calculations, but according to bonkers.ie, Just Energy was the cheapest for me to switch to anyway.

So not only do I pay less than with any other provider, it will also no longer make a difference how much I put on night rate. And all my EV charging will be free, any time of day or night :cool:

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Not sure about your calculations, but according to bonkers.ie, Just Energy was the cheapest for me to switch to anyway.

So not only do I pay less than with any other provider, it will also no longer make a difference how much I put on night rate. And all my EV charging will be free, any time of day or night :cool:

The PSO levy is a fixed price across suppliers. The standing charge is different per supplier but is ~€160 from Energia for urban users and is not connected to the amount of energy you consume.

So that leaves you with €460 for the 3500kWh used therefore 13c/kWh

If you stayed with Energia (13.89c/6.65c) and had a split of 40/60% between day/night you would pay €194+€140=€334 for the same 3500kWh's.

So, Energia is actually cheaper by about €120 but with an EV now thrown in you will easily burn more than €120 over the year on that so you should gain.

All of their other plans are more expensive with rates of 16c/10c which is a lot more than their competitors so the unlimited plan is about the only one where you can save and only when you use more electricity than last year so you get some free.

We really should stand up against the PSO Levy. People protested against water charges and ignore this rip off !!!

noel100

The PSO levy is not needed anymore as cost of wind and solar is cheaper than any (fossil fuel) new supply built today.

It's a disgrace, they're giving for free taxpayers money in the sum of what 500 million this year alone ? just to wind energy companies not to mention what BnM get !

Ogham

NIMAN wrote: »

This dream deal is starting to sound not so attractive already.

You can bet this company will end up on Boards, LiveLine etc in the future, being moaned about.

As always folks, if it sounds too good to be true...

The figures in the quotes on just energy don't seem to include vat. They are not as cheap as you think.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

and had a split of 40/60% between day/night

My split is about 33% night. Fill in the figures for yourself into bonkers.ie and you'll see that Just Energy is the cheapest (by a small margin)

And that's obviously not taking into account that every single kWh over 3.5k kWh per year is going to be free...

Moreilly

had a look at it, my head is wrecked !
I used 5743kwh last year and it cost around €1122 euro ( with no car charging - install will be in the next two weeks)
On bonkers website energia are coming in at €1032 euro with a '200 saving'..
Bord Gas level pay on bonkers is coming up as €1037 - is this the same type of thing as the just energy offer?
When i stick the annual usage of 5743 into the 'just energy' website it says annual bill of €1173.84 (rural), are these quotes including vat?
i have way too many tabs open on my browser now !, this leccy comparison is head wrecking !!!

Ogham

Moreilly wrote: »

had a look at it, my head is wrecked !
I used 5743kwh last year and it cost around €1122 euro ( with no car charging - install will be in the next two weeks)
On bonkers website energia are coming in at €1032 euro with a '200 saving'..
Bord Gas level pay on bonkers is coming up as €1037 - is this the same type of thing as the just energy offer?
When i stick the annual usage of 5743 into the 'just energy' website it says annual bill of €1173.84 (rural), are these quotes including vat?
i have way too many tabs open on my browser now !, this leccy comparison is head wrecking !!!

That Just Energy figure will be ex VAT. The real figure will be closer to €1280.

I'd be enterested to see what terms and conditions they put in writing on the unlimited plan -  unkel , if you get them please let us know what they say about excessive use etc.

KCross

Ogham wrote: »

That Just Energy figure will be ex VAT. The real figure will be closer to €1280.

I'd be enterested to see what terms and conditions they put in writing on the unlimited plan -  unkel , if you get them please let us know what they say about excessive use etc.

The figures are inc vat according to justenergy.

Their t&c says you can't go above 10000kWh. Other than that it is "unlimited".

KCross

Moreilly wrote: »

had a look at it, my head is wrecked !
I used 5743kwh last year and it cost around €1122 euro ( with no car charging - install will be in the next two weeks)
On bonkers website energia are coming in at €1032 euro with a '200 saving'..
Bord Gas level pay on bonkers is coming up as €1037 - is this the same type of thing as the just energy offer?
When i stick the annual usage of 5743 into the 'just energy' website it says annual bill of €1173.84 (rural), are these quotes including vat?
i have way too many tabs open on my browser now !, this leccy comparison is head wrecking !!!

Bord Gais level pay doesn't have the unlimited element so if you use more they will charge you more.

When using bonkers it's better to enter your unit rate than selecting a plan. So pull out your last bill and enter the ex vat kWh rate you are on and then it will be accurate.

Ogham

KCross wrote: »

Ogham wrote: »

That Just Energy figure will be ex VAT. The real figure will be closer to €1280.

I'd be enterested to see what terms and conditions they put in writing on the unlimited plan -  unkel , if you get them please let us know what they say about excessive use etc.

The figures are inc vat according to justenergy.

Their t&c says you can't go above 10000kWh. Other than that it is "unlimited".

Sorry - but I don't see Vat mentioned on the Just Energy site - and I've gone and run a quote online.
Their unlimited plan is showing on Bonkers too - with higher figures for exact same usage ( and these include VAT) . So something is not right with the figures on Just Energy.

I can't see any proper terms and conditions relating to the unlimited option -  (have you any link?).
That's why I expect (hope)  there will be more details if someone  goes o as far as signing up.  I can't see them allowing someone who says they use 3000kwh to use 10000 kwh without questioning it or moving them onto another plan.

KCross

Ogham wrote: »

Sorry - but I don't see Vat mentioned on the Just Energy site - and I've gone and run a quote online.
Their unlimited plan is showing on Bonkers too - with higher figures for exact same usage ( and these include VAT) . So something is not right with the figures on Just Energy.

I can't see any proper terms and conditions relating to the unlimited option -  (have you any link?).
That's why I expect (hope)  there will be more details if someone  goes o as far as signing up.  I can't see them allowing someone who says they use 3000kwh to use 10000 kwh without questioning it or moving them onto another plan.

I get much the same figures between their website and bonkers.
e.g. 4000kWh on their website for urban 24h meter is 75.40(-€5 discount for DD and online billing) so thats €844 for the year.

Same input to Bonkers gives €820.


You also have to prove your annual consumption beforehand so it would be very difficult to use 3000 one year and 10000 the next year unless your growing something in the attic!



Here is my email exchange with them showing that their online quotes include everything (Levies, Vat etc) and also the 10000kWh limit. The replies were clear cut to me.

From: JE Customer Services <customerinfo@justenergy.ie>
Sent: 12 September 2017 10:32
Subject: FW: Tariff Query

Good Morning

Thank you for contacting Just Energy. Please find below the answers to your questions.
If you were to use 7000kWh in the year, you would still be charged the the same amount for the duration of your contract with us.
If you wished to renew your contract with us, we would give you a new quote based on your annual consumption for the year.
As it is a set price, you would be paying a fixed monthly amount regardless of whether your usage is higher or lower.

Thank you for contacting Just Energy, if there is anything further we can assist you with, please do not hesitate to contact us.



Kind regards,
Jack O'Donovan Garvey
Customer Service Advisor

=========================

Sent: 11 September 2017 15:38
To: JE Customer Services
Subject: Re: Tariff Query


Hi

- So, lets say I used 6000kWh's last year and I signup (quoted €98.13/mth) and end up using 7000kWh's would I in effect get the extra 1000kWh's for free?
- Do you then recalculate the quote upwards for the subsequent year?
- On the flip side, what about if I use less electricity than the previous year? Do I then end up losing out in that case?

________________________________
From: JE Customer Services <customerinfo@justenergy.ie>
Sent: 11 September 2017 15:24
Subject: Tariff Query

Good Afternoon

Thank you for contacting Just Energy.

Regarding your query in relation to the Unlimited Tariff I can confirm that if you provide an annual consumption for your electricity we can generate a quote for you. If you should use more electricity than last year the following may occur.

We offer the unlimted tariff with a 10,000kwh capacity means your annual consumption must be under 10,000kwh for the year. Should you use more than the 10,000kwh in the year you will be switched onto the Variable Tariff and may not be eligible to renew onto the Unlimited Tariff again.

I can confirm that the unlimited quote we would give you based on your annual consumption would include VAT and PSO levy.

Should you wish to proceed and require a quote from us please feel free to contact us on 1850 858 110 or by email.

I would like to thank you again for contacting Just Energy.

Kind regards,


From: webenquiry@justenergy.ie [webenquiry@justenergy.ie]
Sent: 08 September 2017 11:59
To: JE Business Customer Services
Subject: FOR ACTION: Web Form – Contact Us

CUSTOMER QUERY:

How does your unlimited tariff work? Example, If I confirm my annual usage from last year and signup to your quote and then subsequently use more than last year what happens? Also, does the quote include everything (Vat, PSO levy etc) or is it just the electricity element? thanks

corglass

Hey guys where are you all getting your annual consumption figures from? Is this detail on your monthly bills? Where do I find out mine?

KCross

corglass wrote: »

Hey guys where are you all getting your annual consumption figures from? Is this detail on your monthly bills? Where do I find out mine?

Yea, on your bill. Its usually just referred to as "units" which is the same as kWh.

So you'd need to get your bills for the last year and add the units used.

My consumption with the leaf + house is 5,500 Kwh inc work charging.

If I get the new Leaf my commute will be met by the work charge point in total so my house consumption will go down a lot, however if you got 10,000 Kwh for 70 PM I'd be tempted to install some electric heaters, those new Dimplex storage heaters are not cheap and not cheap to install as each heater has to go back to the consumer unit I believe ?

My heating could do with upgrading as there are some really old skool single radiators that are very inefficient, but I think my single phase supply is a non runner with electric heating and EV.

Just imagine if we had a Feed-in-tariff in Ireland, so much potential.....

Just imagine if we had a proper clean course of electricity what we could do , all our heat and transport will hopefully one day come from clean electricity.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

... however if you got 10,000 Kwh for 70 PM I'd be tempted to install some electric heaters...

The title of this thread is a bit misleading. You don't get it at 70pm. You first have to prove what you used last year, they then give you a quote based on that. It won't be 70pm if you are already using 5000kWh!!

And if you exceed the usage you put into the quote they will set a new higher rate on year 2. What are you going to do then, remove your heaters?!

Ah ok, no point then. Keep burning the Oil so lol.

wiz569

KCross wrote: »

The title of this thread is a bit misleading. You don't get it at 70pm. You first have to prove what you used last year, they then give you a quote based on that. It won't be 70pm if you are already using 5000kWh!!

And if you exceed the usage you put into the quote they will set a new higher rate on year 2. What are you going to do then, remove your heaters?!

For example I used 6300kwh on my last 6 bills and their quote is €105 a month

Ogham

KCross wrote: »

I get much the same figures between their website and bonkers.
e.g. 4000kWh on their website for urban 24h meter is 75.40(-€5 discount for DD and online billing) so thats €844 for the year.

Same input to Bonkers gives €820.

I think you mustn't be looking at the Unlimited tariff on Bonkers - you are looking at some other Just Energy tariff.
The price quoted on Bonkers is a good bit higher than Just Energy themselves. I would probably trust the Bonkers figures more (I could be wrong) .

KCross

Ogham wrote: »

I think you mustn't be looking at the Unlimited tariff on Bonkers - you are looking at some other Just Energy tariff.
The price quoted on Bonkers is a good bit higher than Just Energy themselves. I would probably trust the Bonkers figures more (I could be wrong) .

Im looking at the right tariff alright. What exact figures are you putting into both systems and we might figure out where one of us is going wrong?

In any case it would be highly unlikely that the energy regulator would let justenergy get away with have ex vat prices on their website like that. It would be grossly misleading to have ex vat prices and not know until you got your first bill. They have also confirmed it is inc vat.

Ogham

KCross wrote: »

Im looking at the right tariff alright. What exact figures are you putting into both systems and we might figure out where one of us is going wrong?

This is what I see:
4000kwh on Just Energy website ( Unlimited)  -  €894.77 Estimated annual Bill .
The figures you used to arrive at €844.80 make sense - but why do they show €894.77 and not €844 ?

4000kwh on Bonkers
a) Third on the list ...Just energy Rate Saver 12 Month Fixed  = €820
b)  Way down the list ...Just Energy Unlimited = €937

Looking deeper into the Bonkers figures - they seem to be adding on the PSO levy on top to arrive at €937 - so maybe their system is wrong and can't cope with showing Just Energy's unlimited option? Or Just Energy are forgetting the PSO ?

unkel

Well, I'm all signed up now. I will be paying €730 fixed price over the next 12 months (€60 per month), no matter how much electricity I use. This compares to the €713 I paid over the past 12 months for 3,500kWh I actually used.

100% free home charging of my EV day or night. Happy days

unkel

Well, I'm all signed up now. I will be paying €730 fixed price over the next 12 months (€60 per month), no matter how much electricity I use. This compares to the €713 I paid over the past 12 months for 3,500kWh I actually used. None of the other quotes I got via bonkers.ie were cheaper.

100% free home charging of my EV day or night

I don't know how this business model can work for them, but I ain't complaining. Happy days :cool:

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Well, I'm all signed up now. I will be paying €730 fixed price over the next 12 months (€60 per month), no matter how much electricity I use. This compares to the €713 I paid over the past 12 months for 3,500kWh I actually used. None of the other quotes I got via bonkers.ie were cheaper.

100% free home charging of my EV day or night

I don't know how this business model can work for them, but I ain't complaining. Happy days :cool:

Their business model is fine I'd say except they haven't allowed for EV's.

To "game" their unlimited plan you need to use significantly more electricity to beat Energia's tariff.

Its not that easy to use alot of EXTRA electricity than you used last year and bear in mind they will reset your payments in 12 months time to your new higher usage level so its only something you will get away with on year 1 and I'd say a few more EV users availing of their oversight and they will quickly shut down the offer or put limits on it in the T&C's.