Landlord told us he was selling the house, ten days after leaving its up for rent

tim3000

Hi all,

A little back story, we were renting from November 2012 to August 2017. There was a singular rent increase in that time of 100 euros per month occurring in March 2016. Last May the LL came in with a letter stating that his circumstances had changed and he intends to sell the place. The letter stated that he must enter a binding contract of sale within 3 months of our departure. A for sale sign went up about 5 people viewed the residence (we heard that he wanted approx 210k for the house dramatically in excess of local prices)

He gave us 13 weeks notice, we moved house on the August 19th about 3 weeks shy of the date stated on the letter. Approximately 10 days after we left the for sale sign disappeared and the property was relisted from daft.ie to rent.ie at 400 euros per month higher than our rent was, and a minimum lease of 1 year.

Is this legal? Or is it case of a LL exploiting a loophole?

Any help would be welcome I am extremely unhappy about it as it was the finish of my little family living together.

Tim

davindub

tim3000 wrote: »

Hi all,

A little back story, we were renting from November 2012 to August 2017. There was a singular rent increase in that time of 100 euros per month occurring in March 2016. Last May the LL came in with a letter stating that his circumstances had changed and he intends to sell the place. The letter stated that he must enter a binding contract of sale within 3 months of our departure. A for sale sign went up about 5 people viewed the residence (we heard that he wanted approx 210k for the house dramatically in excess of local prices)

He gave us 13 weeks notice, we moved house on the August 19th about 3 weeks shy of the date stated on the letter. Approximately 10 days after we left the for sale sign disappeared and the property was relisted from daft.ie to rent.ie at 400 euros per month higher than our rent was, and a minimum lease of 1 year.

Is this legal? Or is it case of a LL exploiting a loophole?

Any help would be welcome I am extremely unhappy about it as it was the finish of my little family living together.

Tim

No its not legal. Did you keep the statutory declaration on the notice?

Also he cannot raise the rent either.

The remedy is not clear but you could try a case for illegal eviction.

q85dw7osi4lebg

This is a very unlikely case given the timelines but just be sure the property hasn't changed ownership before making any complaint, perhaps check with the agent.

Conveyancing normally takes 4-6 weeks minimum but it might be a case of tenants being sought in advance of it closing.

All very unlikely however.

Reati

The only reasonable action here is to burn the house down with 400 euro of petrol...

Joking aside, what outcome do you want from this? Yes it's ****. Yes, it's not right or fair but it's kinda done and dusted. The best you get out of this is a feeling of getting the last laugh I guess?

Browney7

I'd send someone you know and trust to try and get a viewing and take some photos of the place so he can't claim extensive refurbishment either.

Sounds like you left in good faith and lo and behold he had a dramatic change of heart and missed having a tenant in his life as soon as you left. Take screenshots of the ad etc

seagull

Or reporting the LL to the RTB and being awarded compensation.

gmisk

Is there pics online has it been refurbed?
If not I would definitely talk to prtb

michaelp97

If you found somewhere else to rent I wouldn't push any further what's to gain from it? Granted what the LL is doing may be annoying but at the end of the day he owns the house and purchased or inherited it with the intention of making money from it, if you were in their shoes of owning an other property wouldn't you try and get as much money from it as you could? It might be a ****ty way to look at it but in my eyes he has done something right to own more than one property, he could've said he wanted to raise the rent agreed but maybe he didn't get anywhere near his asking price so decided to rent again

Ultimate Seduction

Go for a viewing of the property yourself, maybe under a false name. See what he says then when you meet him. Keep the letter and save the ad. Report to prtb. You may get compensation

tim3000

davindub wrote: »

No its not legal. Did you keep the statutory declaration on the notice?

Also he cannot raise the rent either.

The remedy is not clear but you could try a case for illegal eviction.

I kept the declaration, to tell the truth we kind of anticipated this situation occurring

Ridge Hundreds Whiff wrote: »

This is a very unlikely case given the timelines but just be sure the property hasn't changed ownership before making any complaint, perhaps check with the agent.

Conveyancing normally takes 4-6 weeks minimum but it might be a case of tenants being sought in advance of it closing.

All very unlikely however.

That is an approximate timeline of events, the ad states that a minimum lease of one year is required at the new rent of 1100 euros per month.

Reati wrote: »

The only reasonable action here is to burn the house down with 400 euro of petrol...

Joking aside, what outcome do you want from this? Yes it's ****. Yes, it's not right or fair but it's kinda done and dusted. The best you get out of this is a feeling of getting the last laugh I guess?

It was an extremely stressful time in my families life, and if it was brought about due to shady LL practices then yes I would like some form retribution.

Browney7 wrote: »

I'd send someone you know and trust to try and get a viewing and take some photos of the place so he can't claim extensive refurbishment either.

Sounds like you left in good faith and lo and behold he had a dramatic change of heart and missed having a tenant in his life as soon as you left. Take screenshots of the ad etc

We did leave in good faith but we weren't surprised to see it relisted, and extensive refurbishment did not take place there simply wasn't time between our leaving and his relisting if you get me.

michaelp97 wrote: »

If you found somewhere else to rent I wouldn't push any further what's to gain from it? Granted what the LL is doing may be annoying but at the end of the day he owns the house and purchased or inherited it with the intention of making money from it, if you were in their shoes of owning an other property wouldn't you try and get as much money from it as you could? It might be a ****ty way to look at it but in my eyes he has done something right to own more than one property, he could've said he wanted to raise the rent agreed but maybe he didn't get anywhere near his asking price so decided to rent again

You see if it was just me I would walk away but there were 4 of us living in the house, I have had to move to Galway and am currently unemployed (having just finished college). My sister had to relocate away from her job too, my brother had emigrated leaving a large collection of his collectibles in our care so we had to rent a storage unit at 120 euro a month to accommodate them and other stuff. Lastly my dad has had to move to an isolated house in the country as that was all he could afford. So my sympathies for the LL are in extremely short supply. It was an absolute disaster for my family to be honest

pansophelia

Were you in a Rent Pressure Zone?
I would check the legalities - PRTB and Threshold websites quite good - and then if appropriate make a complaint with the PRTB.
It doesn't really matter what the landlord wants to do - it only matters what he's legally allowed to do.
Keep careful details of all correspondence and dates.
Best wishes

April 73

It's pretty obvious what happened here & it had a big impact on a family that had been renting the house for a long period of time.
They left & ten days later the LL has it up for rent? Sudden change of heart on selling? Dubious to say the least.
That's not right & if it were me I would persue it through the RTB.

GhostyMcGhost

Even if it was re-rented, OP you must be offered first refusal on it

Doesn't sound like you were asked if you wanted it back

Hollister11

Sounds like the OP wants to be a member of the compo culture we have here.

OP, yes it's ****ty but get over it. It's his house, and because of the government sticking their noses in, instead of building houses he's ROI is greatly affected. Give the man a break.

davindub

tim3000 wrote: »

I kept the declaration, to tell the truth we kind of anticipated this situation occurring



That is an approximate timeline of events, the ad states that a minimum lease of one year is required at the new rent of 1100 euros per month.



It was an extremely stressful time in my families life, and if it was brought about due to shady LL practices then yes I would like some form retribution.



We did leave in good faith but we weren't surprised to see it relisted, and extensive refurbishment did not take place there simply wasn't time between our leaving and his relisting if you get me.



You see if it was just me I would walk away but there were 4 of us living in the house, I have had to move to Galway and am currently unemployed (having just finished college). My sister had to relocate away from her job too, my brother had emigrated leaving a large collection of his collectibles in our care so we had to rent a storage unit at 120 euro a month to accommodate them and other stuff. Lastly my dad has had to move to an isolated house in the country as that was all he could afford. So my sympathies for the LL are in extremely short supply. It was an absolute disaster for my family to be honest

Good, breach of statutory declaration is a criminal offense, So get legal advice on how to proceed with reporting this as well as the RTB case. But build evidence while it is available, get screenshots of the listing, etc. Best of luck.

Browney7

Hollister11 wrote: »

Sounds like the OP wants to be a member of the compo culture we have here.

OP, yes it's ****ty but get over it. It's his house, and because of the government sticking their noses in, instead of building houses he's ROI is greatly affected. Give the man a break.

And it's actions from people like the OP's landlord who may influence the government into removing the reason for sale clause for terminating a part 4 tenancy and screws over legitimate LLs who may genuinely wish to exit the business....

Mech1

Hollister11 wrote: »

Sounds like the OP wants to be a member of the compo culture we have here.

OP, yes it's ****ty but get over it. It's his house, and because of the government sticking their noses in, instead of building houses he's ROI is greatly affected. Give the man a break.

"His return on investment may well be affected", tough shi*, all investments come with a risk attached. He decided to take that risk.

WoollyRedHat

Hollister11 wrote: »

Sounds like the OP wants to be a member of the compo culture we have here.

OP, yes it's ****ty but get over it. It's his house, and because of the government sticking their noses in, instead of building houses he's ROI is greatly affected. Give the man a break.

What? Talking out of your hoop here im afraid. Easy to say to just 'Get over it' when you didnt have to go through the stress of having you and your family uprooted because the landlord decided to do a fast one.

Its quite scurrilous that it was only on market 10 days before going back on rental market.

Tigger

Hollister11 wrote: »

Sounds like the OP wants to be a member of the compo culture we have here.

OP, yes it's ****ty but get over it. It's his house, and because of the government sticking their noses in, instead of building houses he's ROI is greatly affected. Give the man a break.

It's not compo culture to want to be financially compensated for someone breaking your residential rights
Like it or not the law is the law and if you want a tenant out you must obey the law because it will affect them
Moving is hassel and costs money

tim3000

pansophelia wrote: »

Were you in a Rent Pressure Zone?
I would check the legalities - PRTB and Threshold websites quite good - and then if appropriate make a complaint with the PRTB.
It doesn't really matter what the landlord wants to do - it only matters what he's legally allowed to do.
Keep careful details of all correspondence and dates.
Best wishes

I am not in one of these rent pressure zones. But rent prices in the area had increased markedly in the last few years. I am trying to ascertain if it was illegal, I will visit a solicitor on Monday and see.

April 73 wrote: »

It's pretty obvious what happened here & it had a big impact on a family that had been renting the house for a long period of time.
They left & ten days later the LL has it up for rent? Sudden change of heart on selling? Dubious to say the least.
That's not right & if it were me I would persue it through the RTB.

I am also going to go down that route, once I have gained legal counsel of some form, I am wary of engaging solicitors as he is considerably netter off than me and mine.

GhostyMcGhost wrote: »

Even if it was re-rented, OP you must be offered first refusal on it

Doesn't sound like you were asked if you wanted it back

No we were never asked that at all we were just told that it was to be sold. Then surprise surprise it was relisted for rent.

Hollister11 wrote: »

Sounds like the OP wants to be a member of the compo culture we have here.

OP, yes it's ****ty but get over it. It's his house, and because of the government sticking their noses in, instead of building houses he's ROI is greatly affected. Give the man a break.

I am not trying to gain compensation from it, I am just trying to ascertain if a wrong had happened and how to right it. I don't believe I mentioned hauling him through the courts and getting rich quick did I? It might be his house by he may have trodden on MY rights.

For those of you interested I will seek legal counsel and see. It is a bit of a grey area from my understanding but perhaps there is grounds for a RTB mediation or something similar. The property according to the ad is available from October so I am thinking if it is re-rented that that may breach the clauses mentioned in the letter, but I am not well versed in legalities of this nature, if anyone knows anyone that has experienced something similar please post here. I will update this thread once I know more.

Tim

Sleeper12

It's wrong. It's illegal. It happens every day of the week.the average annual rent increase in Dublin is a lot more than the 4 percent allowed

Fanny Wank

Hollister11 wrote: »

Sounds like the OP wants to be a member of the compo culture we have here.

OP, yes it's ****ty but get over it. It's his house, and because of the government sticking their noses in, instead of building houses he's ROI is greatly affected. Give the man a break.

Yes I agree, we should all just obey the laws we want to and that suit us

LuckyLloyd

Open a dispute with the RTB. You will win, be financially compensated and may even be offered the place back at original terms.

The most idiotic thing in all this is the OP was not in a rent pressure so the LL could just have increased his rent by 400 euro and if the op refused he would have had to move out so the LL would have gotten his increase either way.

The LL was totally clueless!

GarIT

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Open a dispute with the RTB. You will win, be financially compensated and may even be offered the place back at original terms.

I would actually advise against this. If the OP complains now the landlord can offer the OP the opportunity to move back in and if the OP refuses all is considered resolved with no harm done. If the OP waits until there is a new tenant in the house and the landlord can't offer the OP the option to move back in then the OP will have to be compensated.

GarIT

GarIT wrote: »

I would actually advise against this. If the OP complains now the landlord can offer the OP the opportunity to move back in and if the OP refuses all is considered resolved with no harm done. If the OP waits until there is a new tenant in the house and the landlord can't offer the OP the option to move back in then the OP will have to be compensated.

Wasn't there a case posted on here a while back where the op waited to report in a similar scenario and the RTB decided that they didn't complain in time so lost the case. I may be remembering the details incorrectly though so I'm not 100% sure.

GarIT

Poppy Sour Viewer wrote: »

Wasn't there a case posted on here a while back where the op waited to report in a similar scenario and the RTB decided that they didn't complain in time so lost the case. I may be remembering the details incorrectly though so I'm not 100% sure.

I haven't heard anything about it so can't comment either way.

As far as I know, though the landlord hasn't done anything wrong until he rents it out again without offering the OP the opportunity to take it.

rsynnott

Hollister11 wrote: »

Sounds like the OP wants to be a member of the compo culture we have here.

OP, yes it's ****ty but get over it. It's his house, and because of the government sticking their noses in, instead of building houses he's ROI is greatly affected. Give the man a break.

Landlords presumably know what they're getting into; the rules aren't new, and if they weren't happy when the law changed over a decade ago they could presumably have sold up then. Landlords, no matter how hard done by they might feel, have to obey the rules just like any other business.

Note that you rarely see posts about "restaurants should be allowed have rat infestations if they want" on threads about FSAI closure orders. I'm not sure why people think landlords are so different. If they want to be in the business, they must follow the law. If they don't like the law, well, get out of the business (I understand there are some people stuck in it due to negative equity on the family home and having to move, and that's unfortunate, but they're a shrinking minority). And if they don't obey the law, they should be punished; otherwise what's the incentive to obey the law?

On the point about the government sticking their noses in rather than building houses, well, building houses isn't the PRTB's job, and it should be largely self-funding. The government can do multiple things at once; it's pretty big.

davindub

GarIT wrote: »

I haven't heard anything about it so can't comment either way.

As far as I know, though the landlord hasn't done anything wrong until he rents it out again without offering the OP the opportunity to take it.

The termination is the issue, the landlord has not terminated the lease under s.34 as he did not have the intent to sell the property within 3 months of the termination date (as per HC comments, intent is more than placing the house on the market).

stingray555

Do not contact a solicitor. Just call RTB and open a case with them. Contact your nearest Threshold office for legal advice. The LL clearly illegally evicted you.

jimmycrackcorm

michaelp97 wrote:

If you found somewhere else to rent I wouldn't push any further what's to gain from it?

It's with pursuing with the RTB if only to warn off other shyster landlords from doing illegal evictions.

But check the PPR to see of it had actually been sold even though it looks doubtful.