Are you leaving Ireland because of the Housing Crisis?

Divelment

Just wondering have any other folks had enough of this shít now with 200 people turning up and forming a queue to attend a viewing for a house put on the market to rent in Dublin, and all this insanity, and deciding that your future is now outside of Ireland?

I recently made this decision after a lot of contemplation. I am very fortunate in the sense that I am single and have no kids and my skills are mobile so this is a real option for me that is not an option for folks who have kids, partners, leases, mortgages, etc. Would be interested to hear if any other folks are doing the same.

Michael D Not Higgins

I think it's fairer to say more people are moving further from Dublin due to the housing crisis. Similar to during the early 2000s, the commuter towns of Dublin were popping up further and further away and commute times kept rising.

Divelment

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

I think it's fairer to say more people are moving further from Dublin due to the housing crisis. Similar to during the early 2000s, the commuter towns of Dublin were popping up further and further away and commute times kept rising.

I looked at this as an option, the problem is so bad now that places out as Edenderry, Portlaoise, Athlone, you'll struggle to find an apartment out in these towns and they are still priced as if they are like Naas or Ashbourne, which are 30 minutes from Dublin.

EDIT: I lived in Edenderry until recently and have family in Ashbourne and Naas, one thing we all agree on is that these towns have had huge influxes of non nationals who make up a large part of the population of these towns.

Michael D Not Higgins

Divelment wrote: »

I looked at this as an option, the problem is so bad now that places out as Edenderry, Portlaoise, Athlone, you'll struggle to find an apartment out in these towns and they are still priced as if they are like Naas or Ashbourne, which are 30 minutes from Dublin.

I agree the situation is really bad right now. The supply constriction has pushed up prices countrywide.

Klonker

Divelment wrote:

EDIT: I lived in Edenderry until recently and have family in Ashbourne and Naas, one thing we all agree on is that these towns have had huge influxes of non nationals who make up a large part of the population of these towns.

So you don't want to live there because of the foreigners?

Divelment

Klonker wrote: »

So you don't want to live there because of the foreigners?

Emmm no, don't recall saying that. My point is that it is obvious that where you have towns in counties adjoining Dublin where the population is now somewhere between 30%-50% non national, then this is something that will obviously impact on the availability of housing.

In a modern functioning properly functioning society (which this country certainly now is NOT), we should first of all be able to discuss this without a childish jibe being thrown out such as, "So you don't want to live there because of the foreigners?"...

I have no problem with non nationals coming here and settling here and comprising 30%-50% of the population of these towns, IF this is done in a planned way. And when I say planned, I mean if our local authorities are building 30%-50% accommodation to house them so that the supply of housing is not disrupted.

It is this utter incapability of this country to run itself in a way that is planned, that has me finally leaving this third world kip. You don't throw open your borders and rapidly grow your population, as has happened in this country within the last 10 years, if you have not carefully planned out their housing and healthcare needs, their educational needs for their families, etc.

This country is in such a state because it cannot plan or organise anything. I'll never be as happy to see the back of a place in my life as I will be to see the back of this country from the aircraft window this month. Housing, it's such a basic human need, it's more important than food and water and clothing, how on earth can a country that is supposedly a first world modern developed state, get something like this so wrong?

ArnieSilvia

The reason for a lot of foreigners in commuter towns is because they had to go first due to lower wages they earn (in relation to Irish), doing crappy jobs.

You could argue that the renting crisis in Dublin was caused by influx of people from the wesht , I don't recall any problems renting around 6 years ago.

Divelment

ArnieSilvia wrote: »

The reason for a lot of foreigners in commuter towns is because they had to go first due to lower wages they earn (in relation to Irish), doing crappy jobs.

You could argue that the renting crisis in Dublin was caused by influx of people from the wesht , I don't recall any problems renting around 6 years ago.

I'm not angry with "foreigners", I'm angry with a government who didn't plan housing or healthcare or any needs that a large influx of people coming here would require. Then all of a sudden, shock horror, there are hospital waiting lists 500,000 people long and you have a housing crisis that, I'm sorry, is simply completely & utterly unacceptable in any country that thinks that it is a modern developed state.

ArnieSilvia

Divelment wrote:

In a modern functioning properly functioning society (which this country certainly now is NOT), we should first of all be able to discuss this without a childish jibe being thrown out such as, "So you don't want to live there because of the foreigners?"...

You can discuss of course but you are the one setting negative tone here. I don't think there was such an influx of foreigners recently to impact housing. 2003-2007 yes, but later no. Even if this is the case, recent immigration would be different in a sense that it's mostly professionals rather than low skilled workers. And that benefits economy.

But I agree with you. Living here is not great these days and I said to my wife today that it resembles Poland of 2003.

One outcome of this situation is that people will not have children anymore. You would be a fool to start a family. On all grounds.

Nika Bolokov

Divelment wrote: »

Emmm no, don't recall saying that. My point is that it is obvious that where you have towns in counties adjoining Dublin where the population is now somewhere between 30%-50% non national, then this is something that will obviously impact on the availability of housing.

In a modern functioning properly functioning society (which this country certainly now is NOT), we should first of all be able to discuss this without a childish jibe being thrown out such as, "So you don't want to live there because of the foreigners?"...

I have no problem with non nationals coming here and settling here and comprising 30%-50% of the population of these towns, IF this is done in a planned way. And when I say planned, I mean if our local authorities are building 30%-50% accommodation to house them so that the supply of housing is not disrupted.

It is this utter incapability of this country to run itself in a way that is planned, that has me finally leaving this third world kip. You don't throw open your borders and rapidly grow your population, as has happened in this country within the last 10 years, if you have not carefully planned out their housing and healthcare needs, their educational needs for their families, etc.

This country is in such a state because it cannot plan or organise anything. I'll never be as happy to see the back of a place in my life as I will be to see the back of this country from the aircraft window this month. Housing, it's such a basic human need, it's more important than food and water and clothing, how on earth can a country that is supposedly a first world modern developed state, get something like this so wrong?

Is it not ironic that your giving out about foreigners and now your off to another country for a better life taking a place and pushing up prices for the locals there ??

Divelment

Nika Bolokov wrote: »

Is it not ironic that your giving out about foreigners and now your off to another country for a better life taking a place and pushing up prices for the locals there ??

Well here's another point I will make. We signed up to EU treaties that provided for the free movement of people within the EU. So we voted for that. I have a right to work in Scotland or anywhere in the EU. We didn't however, vote for people from places like China, South America, Pakistan, India, and a whole host of countries where there are no wars going on, to be allowed come and settle here.

It is my humble opinion that we should not under any circumstances have done this, without putting a number on how many people we were letting in, and having a national conversation about why we were doing this, and part of that conversation ought to have been, "and here are the ADDITIONAL financial resources we are putting into healthcare, housing, education and justice to ensure that the access to these resources for those already living here, is not compromised!"...

As usual in this country, we utterly failed to approach a challenge in a sensible, rational and thought out way, and this is without a doubt in my opinion, why we have such a severe housing crisis in this country today.

Divelment

ArnieSilvia wrote: »

You can discuss of course but you are the one setting negative tone here. I don't think there was such an influx of foreigners recently to impact housing. 2003-2007 yes, but later no. Even if this is the case, recent immigration would be different in a sense that it's mostly professionals rather than low skilled workers. And that benefits economy.

But I agree with you. Living here is not great these days and I said to my wife today that it resembles Poland of 2003.

One outcome of this situation is that people will not have children anymore. You would be a fool to start a family. On all grounds.

I'm not setting a negative tone at all. It's not easy to live your home country because your hopelessly incapable government lets so many people into your country, that housing in the capital county is just unavailable, but I'm angry at the government, not at people who have been let in here, many I see have been given a social housing solution. I was looking at an apartment in Sandyford in South Beacon Quarter, I'm priced out of the market at 2K a month, but yet there is a whole block there paid for by Dublin Rathdown County Council, that is for social housing that is reserved for non nationals. Just go up there any evening yourself and see it, they are all outside hanging around the square. It is difficult to accept this as a rational person, where your government invites people from across the world to come live here for free, but then you are priced out of living in the block next door when the rent reaches 2K a month.

ThisRegard

Divelment wrote: »

Well here's another point I will make. We signed up to EU treaties that provided for the free movement of people within the EU. So we voted for that. I have a right to work in Scotland or anywhere in the EU. We didn't however, vote for people from places like China, South America, Pakistan, India, and a whole host of countries where there are no wars going on, to be allowed come and settle here.

It is my humble opinion that we should not under any circumstances have done this, without putting a number on how many people we were letting in, and having a national conversation about why we were doing this, and part of that conversation ought to have been, "and here are the ADDITIONAL financial resources we are putting into healthcare, housing, education and justice to ensure that the access to these resources for those already living here, is not compromised!"...

As usual in this country, we utterly failed to approach a challenge in a sensible, rational and thought out way, and this is without a doubt in my opinion, why we have such a severe housing crisis in this country today.

You know people from the countries you list can't just rock up and live here like someone from the EU don't you?

And how do you know housing in the area you mention is explicitly for "non nationals"?

Divelment

ThisRegard wrote: »

You know people from the countries you list can't just rock up and live here like someone from the EU don't you?

And how do you know housing in the area you mention is explicitly for "non nationals"?

I don't accept your first point whatsoever, this country is operating an open borders policy as far as I can see what is going on. I have no problem with immigration, once it is (A) controlled and (B) once resources are planned and put into housing and healthcare, etc, around the increase in population that comes with (A). But we have utterly failed to do this in Ireland, like everything else that goes on in this country, we have an inability to plan, we refuse to discuss problems openly and instead we swamp the actual problems that we have, with huge amounts of verbal bullshít and political spin and the outcome is that nothing ever gets actually dealt with, we react to problems instead of planning for them to not happen in the first place.

On your second point, because I made inquiries through official channels and if you want to contradict me, no problem but maybe make a few inquiries as I have done, because I know my facts are correct in relation to what I have said above.

The housing crisis has happened because we increased our population by about 30%-50% and rising, and we never as much as had a national conversation about whether we needed to put money into this, and build 30%-50% more housing and put in place 30%-50% more healthcare resources like hospitals and put 30%-50% more money into schools.

Why else do you think we have these ever worsening crises?!? Why do you think we have a healthcare crisis, a massive housing crisis and an education crisis?

michaelp97

Divelment wrote:

I'm not setting a negative tone at all. It's not easy to live your home country because your hopelessly incapable government lets so many people into your country, that housing in the capital county is just unavailable, but I'm angry at the government, not at people who have been let in here, many I see have been given a social housing solution. I was looking at an apartment in Sandyford in South Beacon Quarter, I'm priced out of the market at 2K a month, but yet there is a whole block there paid for by Dublin Rathdown County Council, that is for social housing that is reserved for non nationals. Just go up there any evening yourself and see it, they are all outside hanging around the square. It is difficult to accept this as a rational person, where your government invites people from across the world to come live here for free, but then you are priced out of living in the block next door when the rent reaches 2K a month.

I agree with this to some extent but if the council didn't do this we could of had the problem of ghettos that we see in larger European countries like Sweden and France, Better that we mix than be sectioned off

LirW

How do you know that the council reserved a whole block for Non-Nationals? Genuine question.

MSVforever

ArnieSilvia wrote: »

You can discuss of course but you are the one setting negative tone here. I don't think there was such an influx of foreigners recently to impact housing. 2003-2007 yes, but later no. Even if this is the case, recent immigration would be different in a sense that it's mostly professionals rather than low skilled workers. And that benefits economy.

But I agree with you. Living here is not great these days and I said to my wife today that it resembles Poland of 2003.

One outcome of this situation is that people will not have children anymore. You would be a fool to start a family. On all grounds.

https://amp.independent.ie/business/jobs/irish-jobs/job-numbers-at-multinationals-in-ireland-reach-a-record-high-of-200000-35339016.html

This is one of the main reasons.... Ireland is imo in a kind of unique situation. Multinationals with their European headquarters need a multilingual workforce. Rapid job growth is great but comes at a price...

Solomon Pleasant

I'm a college student in Dublin and I feel that students and young professionals have been hardest by the housing crisis in Dublin. Landlords rarely want to rent to students anyway, but now they can really charge extortionate prices for shoebox rooms and we can't really complain - such is the market.

Personally I don't think I'll be staying in Dublin after I finish my degree. I have a few friends who have graduated and are in graduate positions and are struggling and can't really save much money at all. I know that'll be me if I stay.

Fortunately, I'm studying German as part of my degree so it's highly likely I'll be going there if the current market doesn't realign its position, which I know it won't have by the time I graduate. Ultimately, what are incentives are there to stay in Dublin? Yeah, it's Ireland and it's where your family may be but the drawbacks are immense and varied. The city is overpopulated, there's a complete lack of housing supply, commuting times and public transport are a long way from perfect and drug abuse is widespread. If I could live with my parents in Dublin for a reasonable rent price to them, then I would probably stay but I refuse to be breadline and living pay check to pay check due to rents and poor political planning.

Divelment

For every person on the governments "list of homeless people" these people are all either in emergency accommodation which is being paid for by the state, hotels, B & B's, "hubs", or else are people who are completely homeless living on the streets or in a park, but have managed to register themselves as homeless with their local authority, for every one of those people, there are probably 10-20 people like myself, who are homeless in the technical sense in that they have zero security of tenure, but have a roof over their heads tonight, these people are back with their parents as an emergency fall back solution, or sofa surfing with a sibling or a friend/relation, or they are working so they can find & pay for short term accommodation even if it is above the odds for accommodation for a nightly/weekly or a monthly basis, (this is the category that I fall into and I'm just blessed that I can afford it).

My point is that what we are seeing on the news and the news websites when the government statistics are trotted out, and those statistics are absolutely shocking, but it is only the very tip of the iceberg.

I can think right now, off the top of my head, of around 12-14 people I know personally, friends of mine, who are at imminent risk of total homelessness. By that, I mean they are either going through the repossession process with a bank, (8 of the 14 above fit into this category, in both cases they are single mums with 2 kids, who tried to do it textbook in terms of starting a family but both were abandoned and left unsupported by errant ex partners), or else they are renting and have no lease as they are sharing with owner/occupiers and are finding that the market is encouraging a new type of ruthlessness when it comes to their tenancy, I can see these situations not working out in the short term and these people I know having to move out.

None of the 14 folks above I know are represented in the figures we are seeing, but looking at their situations, I reckon all of them will end up homeless this year. The repossession situations I've refereed to above,\ are probably the most enviable of all those situations at the moment because you can stall the process by legally fighting the bank, but when that day arrives when the court order comes and the sheriff arrives with the court order in his hand with his eviction crew, you can expect to be standing on the pavement outside your house with your two kids all in your pyjamas.

Seeing this happening in this country has made me hate the place, this isn't a country or a society, it's a thoroughly disgusting third world overrated kip.

The only difference between me and the two friends I know going through the repossession process trying to hold onto their homes, is that (1) I thank Christ don't have a mortgage and (2) I don't have kids so I can leave this disgusting morally rotten corrupt dump of a country.

stingray555

Why not buy an apartment in a place like Athy? Just looked on daft.ie a one bed for 65000? 6500 deposit and you can secure a mortgage. Train station to Heuston close by, or one hour drive to Dublin on the M7, get a 65MPG car and you will be grand. A friend of mine did just this and he is delighted with the move.

Divelment

stingray555 wrote: »

Why not buy an apartment in a place like Athy? Just looked on daft.ie a one bed for 65000? 6500 deposit and you can secure a mortgage. Train station to Heuston close by, or one hour drive to Dublin on the M7, get a 65MPG car and you will be grand. A friend of mine did just this and he is delighted with the move.

I've no interest in living like that, spending 2 hours a day commuting or 3 if the M50 or N4 or M7 is a mess or whatever. I've put a lot of thought into this and decided that Dublin is no longer a place where I want to live. It's the most overrated city on earth. All I see around me are deeply deeply unhappy people struggling daily to live in what is simply a city that is now heavily overpopulated. You see instances and hear stories every day now of people completely losing it with one another over over the smallest thing, a traffic disagreement, something small like a queue in a bank or a supermarket and people start barking at one another. I don't recognise this country as the same place that I grew up in, it has completely changed for the worse, it feels like a pressure pot full of hugely unhappy people these days.

I believe the housing crisis has just added a new tier of stress for people, it's unsustainable, life in this city, something will have to give one of these days but Irish people are so subservient that they will just keep taking it. But I won't, I'm going somewhere where there is a somewhat normal quality of life.

ThisRegard

I think you're going to be in for a massive shock when you find that everywhere outside of Ireland is not the utopia your naivety leads you to expect it to be.

amcalester

Tell me this OP, are you taking that chip on your shoulder to Scotland or leaving it behind?

riffmongous

ThisRegard wrote: »

I think you're going to be in for a massive shock when you find that everywhere outside of Ireland is not the utopia your naivety leads you to expect it to be.

There are definitely much better places though, Dublin is always well down the rankings for quality of living

ThisRegard

riffmongous wrote: »

There are definitely much better places though, Dublin is always well down the rankings for quality of living

Unless you live in the top rated place in the world at a given time, there's always somewhere better.

Ireland is ranked around 7th or 8th in the world by the UN in their HDI index, doesn't leave the OP with very many places to go.

NIMAN

Divelment wrote: »

I've no interest in living like that, spending 2 hours a day commuting or 3 if the M50 or N4 or M7 is a mess or whatever. I've put a lot of thought into this and decided that Dublin is no longer a place where I want to live. It's the most overrated city on earth. All I see around me are deeply deeply unhappy people struggling daily to live in what is simply a city that is now heavily overpopulated. You see instances and hear stories every day now of people completely losing it with one another over over the smallest thing, a traffic disagreement, something small like a queue in a bank or a supermarket and people start barking at one another. I don't recognise this country as the same place that I grew up in, it has completely changed for the worse, it feels like a pressure pot full of hugely unhappy people these days.

I believe the housing crisis has just added a new tier of stress for people, it's unsustainable, life in this city, something will have to give one of these days but Irish people are so subservient that they will just keep taking it. But I won't, I'm going somewhere where there is a somewhat normal quality of life.

I have experienced people in London, Paris, Madrid, Barcelona, Munich.....there's very grumpy gits all over the world.

Its just the way of modern life. Its not an Irish thing.

And to answer your original question, no I'm staying in Ireland. I love my life up here in Donegal. No housing crisis for me. Lots of very friendly people about too.

Divelment

ThisRegard wrote: »

I think you're going to be in for a massive shock when you find that everywhere outside of Ireland is not the utopia your naivety leads you to expect it to be.

Don't expect to find a utopia, and I'm far from naive, it's not "utopia" to live in a place that doesn't expect you to pay 1,000 Euro a month for a shoebox sized bedroom.

It is not utopia to expect to have some sort of a decent quality of life after working 50 hours a week in terms of your disposable income.

It is not utopia to expect to not have to spend 3-4 hours a day commuting from 100KM away to work and then back again because this is just the way it is and because several people have crashed their cars on the motorway each work.

If you think that those things are normal things, then fine, good for you, but I certainly do not want to live like that anymore...

Cyrus

Divelment wrote: »

I've no interest in living like that, spending 2 hours a day commuting or 3 if the M50 or N4 or M7 is a mess or whatever. I've put a lot of thought into this and decided that Dublin is no longer a place where I want to live. It's the most overrated city on earth. All I see around me are deeply deeply unhappy people struggling daily to live in what is simply a city that is now heavily overpopulated. You see instances and hear stories every day now of people completely losing it with one another over over the smallest thing, a traffic disagreement, something small like a queue in a bank or a supermarket and people start barking at one another. I don't recognise this country as the same place that I grew up in, it has completely changed for the worse, it feels like a pressure pot full of hugely unhappy people these days.

I believe the housing crisis has just added a new tier of stress for people, it's unsustainable, life in this city, something will have to give one of these days but Irish people are so subservient that they will just keep taking it. But I won't, I'm going somewhere where there is a somewhat normal quality of life.

Dublin isnt close to being overpopulated and there is a serious racist undertone to your postings

It's the kind of rhetoric ukip were spouting

What land of manna are you moving to

riffmongous

ThisRegard wrote: »

Unless you live in the top rated place in the world at a given time, there's always somewhere better.

Well I do But regardless, Dublin usually occupies a 25-35 ranking which isn't much when you consider most of the other cities ahead of them are in western europe

circular flexing

riffmongous wrote: »

There are definitely much better places though, Dublin is always well down the rankings for quality of living

And those surveys are full of ****. I live in Vancouver which regularly places near the top of those lists, and while it is a nice place to live there's also tons of issues, some of which are the same as Dublin but some of which are different.

Divelment

amcalester wrote: »

Tell me this OP, are you taking that chip on your shoulder to Scotland or leaving it behind?

I started this thread as a serious thread on a serious topic, if you have nothing substantive to contribute in terms of your analysis or assessment, maybe better just keep your ignorance to yourself and not bother making any contribution at all because what you have posted there adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.

There are hundreds of thousands of people in my situation in this country, it is a reasonable question to ask, when do people decide as I have, that enough is enough and when do you decide to relocate?