ASTI CEC recommends members rejects LR 2. 9th Sept 2017

MrJones1973

The Past is the Past. The Future? If the ASTI and the TUI can propose a series of one day strikes up to 10 days then they have my vote. Simply asking the members to vote cart Blanche for Industrial action is not a runner given the past. You can move on but only a total idiot would forget it .

I would like all LPT surveyed in the union and asked if they want to undertake action. Im not sure they would. A good 1000 left.

Sir123

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

The Past is the Past. The Future? If the ASTI and the TUI can propose a series of one day strikes up to 10 days then they have my vote. Simply asking the members to vote cart Blanche for Industrial action is not a runner given the past. You can move on but only a total idiot would forget it .

I would like all LPT surveyed in the union and asked if they want to undertake action. Im not sure they would. A good 1000 left.

The past is the past and that's for certain. As bitter a taste it left last November, we were isolated and left on our own with only FEMPI to be heard and enacted upon us. A legislation we still can't seem to get rid of despite being out of 'recession'.

In relation to LPTs leaving the union for CIDs, fair enough a good few did, but I know a good few that stuck their ground and refused to change to TUI at the time. Principle is key.

Unless we all unite together i.e. all teacher unions, there is no hope for education in this country period.

I think FEMPI and an anti-public sector government is to blame for individuals in all sectors turning against one another. Remember we all have equal qualifications and deserved to be paid on an equal payscale as our peers.

Indeed a plan of action is needed. Hopefully a good one is laid out by all unions including INTO which has the majority of members. Any weakness in any union to back down shall result in a pointless strive for equality. It seems quiet, INTO have been since June. I wonder what they have up their sleeves if anything!

MrJones1973

http://i.imgur.com/gILg9.jpg

Sometimes I think this image sums up teachers and their unions with everything thats gone on

acequion

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

http://i.imgur.com/gILg9.jpg

Sometimes I think this image sums up teachers and their unions with everything thats gone on

lol :D

acequion

Sir123 wrote: »

The past is the past and that's for certain. As bitter a taste it left last November, we were isolated and left on our own with only FEMPI to be heard and enacted upon us. A legislation we still can't seem to get rid of despite being out of 'recession'.

In relation to LPTs leaving the union for CIDs, fair enough a good few did, but I know a good few that stuck their ground and refused to change to TUI at the time. Principle is key.

Unless we all unite together i.e. all teacher unions, there is no hope for education in this country period.

I think FEMPI and an anti-public sector government is to blame for individuals in all sectors turning against one another. Remember we all have equal qualifications and deserved to be paid on an equal payscale as our peers.

Indeed a plan of action is needed. Hopefully a good one is laid out by all unions including INTO which has the majority of members. Any weakness in any union to back down shall result in a pointless strive for equality. It seems quiet, INTO have been since June. I wonder what they have up their sleeves if anything!

You're right they are quiet. I doubt they've anything up their sleeves,I'd say they're waiting to see which way the other two unions vote so it's one down and one to go and then???

I wouldn't trust Sheila Noonan,she'd be like Liam Doran,talks out of both sides of her mouth,but I would trust Glor, the INTO fightback group and they'll keep tabs on her.

But I don't think any plan will be outlined before we vote. I would imagine that if,hopefully when,we vote no that will be when the three unions will work together and that will be when the plan is unveiled. Obviously it will have be some kind of strike action. I'd prefer all out but I agree with Mr White that teachers generally don't have the bottle for that,but whatever we do it will have to do damage to get a result. Sooner rather than later,hopefully.

MrJones1973

I realize that a joint meeting of three executives takes time but I have no intention of voting No with a question mark over what happens next. We are asking the same group of people (bar perhaps one or two new SC members) to make a decision. The same crowd that ran strategy last year?

To be fair to them though-the troops behind them turned and ran at the first sign of trouble.

I wont go on and on and repeat myself but no blank cheques . So No plan then no-no vote.

SligoBrewer

What plan do you want?

One that gets you a pay rise less than the rate of inflation?
One that makes the pension level permanent?
One that doesn't get LPTs anything?

Give me one good reason to accept this document. What is in it that is good?

acequion

Completely agree with SligoBrewer. The choice is as stark as go with the Govt or go with the unions. Unfortunately it's the difference between dealing with the amateurs or dealing with the professionals. And the Govt are the professionals as they are the ones with the cash and the power. But if the teachers unions roll over yet again the future will be extremely bleak. I don't think people realise what's in store for teachers and just how bad it will get if this Fine Gael Govt are allowed to continue on their merry ways. And with the economy continuing to improve they have every chance of winning the next election [am shuddering as I write this]. At the end of the day once Joe public has a few bob in his pocket, is able to pay his mortgage,go off on his foreign hols and go for the meal out and the few pints etc, he'll quickly forget the housing crisis,the public health shambles, to name but a few and he'll put photogenic Leo back on the throne. And look out teachers! Here's a flavour of what's coming:

1. Performance management [have your principals told you they'll be meeting you all individually this year? Because that's the start]
2. Pay related pay [will inevitably result from performance management].
3. Reform of the LC [following on from JC. IBEC are calling for it already]
4. Compulsory CPD linked to TC registration [What with this and LC reform you can forget hols in June].
5. Pension reform [many say this will be next].
6. Permanent two tier pay scales,if not more.
7. Permanent pension levy.
8. And lots more.

Therefore, regardless of the past, regardless of the amateur nature of the people on the union committees, it is vital to lay down a marker before things do get worse and with a united front show this Govt that teachers have had enough and that at the very least there is no way we will concede on pay parity.

Vote NO.

MrJones1973

I accept a lot of what you say acequion and will take it on board before vote,Certainly. Maximum respect.

evolving_doors

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

I accept a lot of what you say acequion and will take it on board before vote,Certainly. Maximum respect.

It's a bit of an odd position to vote yes because they won't follow through on a no (with industrial action etc).
If you go yes it quite simply means you accept and agree with all that comes with it.
You'd be better off spoiling your vote in protest. I think people do this in France ... carte blanche or something.

MrJones1973

evolving_doors wrote: »

It's a bit of an odd position to vote yes because they won't follow through on a no (with industrial action etc).
If you go yes it quite simply means you accept and agree with all that comes with it.
You'd be better off spoiling your vote in protest. I think people do this in France ... carte blanche or something.

Based on past experience its a bit of a leap to trust them-the executive. Without a plan and I think a lot of members will think the same. I predict a yes vote 55-45%
We had a dream team last year and look what happened. Im sorry I have said all of this before . Ad nauseum. I wont comment again and this time I mean it!

noodler

SligoBrewer wrote: »

What plan do you want?

One that gets you a pay rise less than the rate of inflation?
One that makes the pension level permanent?
One that doesn't get LPTs anything?

Give me one good reason to accept this document. What is in it that is good?

The increases are higher than the rate of inflation.

Sir123

noodler wrote: »

The increases are higher than the rate of inflation.

Are you sure? This is Fine Gael we are talking about!

political analyst

acequion wrote: »

Reform of the LC [following on from JC. IBEC are calling for it already]

What's wrong with reform of the LC? It might reduce the stress that pupils are under with regard to points. JC and LC reform might have taken place many years ago if the ASTI hadn't shot down Gemma Hussey's JC reform plan back in the 1980s.

acequion wrote: »

Compulsory CPD linked to TC registration [What with this and LC reform you can forget hols in June]

I've been reading on politics.ie that the TC was established at the teacher unions' behest because they wanted to make the teaching profession posher, i.e. an equivalent of the Law Society and the Medical Council.

judeboy101

political analyst wrote: »

What's wrong with reform of the LC? It might reduce the stress that pupils are under with regard to points. JC and LC reform might have taken place many years ago if the ASTI hadn't shot down Gemma Hussey's JC reform plan back in the 1980s.






I've been reading on politics.ie that the TC was established at the teacher unions' behest because they wanted to make the teaching profession posher, i.e. an equivalent of the Law Society and the Medical Council.

It's not less stress they need, its how to deal with stress. Life is full of failure, we need to teach them how to accept and deal with it, not protect them from it by making exams "less stressful".

joebloggs32

political analyst wrote: »

What's wrong with reform of the LC? It might reduce the stress that pupils are under with regard to points. JC and LC reform might have taken place many years ago if the ASTI hadn't shot down Gemma Hussey's JC reform plan back in the 1980s.






I've been reading on politics.ie that the TC was established at the teacher unions' behest because they wanted to make the teaching profession posher, i.e. an equivalent of the Law Society and the Medical Council.

The TC was set up with union input, as if they didn't, one would have been set up anyway.
Almost half of TC are not teachers or educators. I wonder how many non medical people or lawyers are on their respective professional bodies?

Powerhouse

political analyst wrote: »

What's wrong with reform of the LC? It might reduce the stress that pupils are under with regard to points. JC and LC reform might have taken place many years ago if the ASTI hadn't shot down Gemma Hussey's JC reform plan back in the .

What a load of nonsense about stress. Students have never had it so good regarding resources for the LC, have it nicely spaced out with longer times for exams than before, and more third-level courses than ever even for those not academically up to it. Bar cancelling the LC altogether stress can hardly be reduced much more. And there's a large cohort who would never be remotely stressed anyway.

I just checked out Gemma Hussey after your reference. Turns out she became Minister for Education nearly 40 years ago. Maybe a more topical reference would be more to the point? You sound like the kind of political bore who bleats on about Ernest Blythe cutting the old-age pension when it's budget time and is impressed with themselves.

SligoBrewer

noodler wrote: »

The increases are higher than the rate of inflation.

No, they are not.

MrJones1973

Do you ever notice that its roughly the same 9-10 posters? Why dont we have a drinking game some night and whoever wins-decides the policy here?!

Sir123

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Do you ever notice that its roughly the same 9-10 posters? Why dont we have a drinking game some night and whoever wins-decides the policy here?!

I want to be the leader of the vote NO to LRA2 policy Mrwhite1970 ðŸ˜

km79

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Do you ever notice that its roughly the same 9-10 posters? Why dont we have a drinking game some night and whoever wins-decides the policy here?!

Not even the promise of drink will get me back discussing this
Worn out with it all already !

evolving_doors

km79 wrote: »

Not even the promise of drink will get me back discussing this
Worn out with it all already !

Ah go on km79 this time it'll be different.

So the rules are...

Mention of younger teachers being sold out = 1 shot.
Folk stumbling in from other fora mentioning teacher holidays= 1 shot
Talk of unions joining together = 2 shots
Other professions getting the steal on teacher industrial action = 1 shot
Other professions getting concessions instantly to stave off public ire = 2 shots
Donald trump starting world war 3.... just drink it all.

MrJones1973

INTO are crucial. Government would be slow to let them bolt given the childcare dilemma that would unleash

evolving_doors

<Thread title altered as ballot hasn't happened yet>
MOD

rossean

Management in my school reminded us of the consequences of voting No in recent days. Is this happening in other schools? I would prefer to make up my own mind, without interference from school authorities. Have a feeling some staff will have been swayed by this, unfortunately.

gavwaldo

rossean wrote: »

Management in my school reminded us of the consequences of voting No in recent days. Is this happening in other schools? I would prefer to make up my own mind, without interference from school authorities. Have a feeling some staff will have been swayed by this, unfortunately.

They wouldn't dream of interfering in my school. Strong ASTI school with over 900 pupils. Staff room full of LPTs.....not one abandoned ship.

judeboy101

rossean wrote: »

Management in my school reminded us of the consequences of voting No in recent days. Is this happening in other schools? I would prefer to make up my own mind, without interference from school authorities. Have a feeling some staff will have been swayed by this, unfortunately.

How was this conveyed to whole staff?

Sir123

INTO threatening strike action as of today's news. Wonder if they will?

Nellieelephant

rossean wrote: »

Management in my school reminded us of the consequences of voting No in recent days. Is this happening in other schools? I would prefer to make up my own mind, without interference from school authorities. Have a feeling some staff will have been swayed by this, unfortunately.

Surely most teachers can read the literature themselves and make an informed vote accordingly. Poor management trying to exert an influence. Hope it wasn't said in a formal setting.

rossean

It was said during a discussion of the new JC during a staff meeting. Couldn't have been more formal.