9/11

A Little Pony

It will remain the worst thing to have happened this century, it did nothing but give the United States free reign to be extra aggressive in foreign policy which led to the illegal war in Iraq, a war built on lies which everyone involved knew was the case at the time and still went ahead anyway.

It has helped change the fabric of the European civilization for this century and centuries to come with Merkel opening up the borders to a million refugees (mainly economic migrants in truth) into Germany. The war destabilized the Middle East, created huge immigration issues for regions in Europe, see the Mediterranean. 

The United States backed up by the UK government from the traitor Blair to Cameron have been implicit in all of this.

Cheerful Spring

Omackeral wrote: »

Simply googling September 10 2001 Twin Towers ticket will bring up these. But yes, of course they're fake. Everything's fake except aliens and those pulsating skies you saw that one time.

Not the ticket looks fake, the date on it is. It's easy to fake details of a real ticket using computer technology. There is no way to verify the authenticity of this ticket. I not saying it's not real and you obviously ignored what i just said before you replied again. There was tours, but those people, were moved to secured areas due to the power down. Did you miss this part of my post?

Omackeral

There's 3 tickets there. 3 different ones. They're all fake though. Sure everything's fake. Except the sky pulsating and UFOs. Can't really reason with you so I'm cordially gonna leave it there.

Cheerful Spring

nacho libre wrote: »

Kennedy vetoed the generals on Operation Northwood, but it does show there are people in the corridors of power who do contemplate such vile acts with a view to blaming others.

I personally don't believe 9-11 was a conspiracy, due to the fact someone would talk. How could you ensure they didn't. As a large cabal would of people would have to be in on it.

It maybe that the Atta and his crew were being controlled by rogue elements within the intelligence services, without them knowing who they were really working for( As Louie in the film Munich says: "Oh believe me you don't who you are working for", but then you would like to imagine good people in the same organisation would be utterly opposed to such action and that these people would be exposed.

With this in mind we don't hear much from Richard Perle anymore. He was one of the architects of the PNAC doctrine you mentioned, but again for everyone one of him, there would be individuals in power who would not tolerate some catastrophic and catalyzing event like a new Pearl
Harbor occurring.

Good, least someone on here is not naive. The CIA was the leading intelligence agency of the United States, in the 60's, why would they even have a plan to carry out a false flag using commercial planes to kill US citizens?

It got established already Saudi Spies and Saudi Officials met with the Hijackers before 9/11. The White House censored this information for 16 years to protect Saudi Arabia. The people involved in this conspiracy got protected by the White House. The only question left is did Rogue elements of the US government, military, or black project help the hijackers carry out this attack, and avoid detection. There is evidence for this if you listen to Richard Clarke testimony (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Clarke) all on video. The CIA knew for 2 years two well known Al Qaeda members had arrived to the United States and in this time never notified him or any other agency of this! Why not, why would they not pass on this information. Why was it so important for these two guys to slip through the net?

Cheerful Spring

Omackeral wrote: »

There's 3 tickets there. 3 different ones. They're all fake though. Sure everything's fake. Except the sky pulsating and UFOs. Can't really reason with you so I'm cordially gonna leave it there.

The second eyewitness already confirmed guiding tours, but this same eyewitness said the guided tours were moved to secured areas , inside the second tower, during the power shutdown. Are you going to continue to ignore i posted this too?

The ticket has never been seen to verify it is real. There is people on both sides ( disbeliever and believer) who will manipulate evidence to proof their argument is right. A quick search of google and i already saw other examples of tickets like this, yet wasn't my belief the ticket like this never existed.

lazybones32

bear1 wrote: »

At the same time I don't believe a plane hit the pentagon.

I think it was a plane. It is nearly impossible that some guy with a few flight lessons was piloting it though. According to the flight path and precise control exercised, it was a veteran pilot in control.

Ultimate Seduction

lazybones32 wrote:

I think it was a plane. It is nearly impossible that some guy with a few flight lessons was piloting it though. According to the flight path and precise control exercised, it was a veteran pilot in control.

Or a missile..

Ultimate Seduction

Look up any plane crash in history, then look at the one that crashed in Pennsylvania. The plane just evaporated, no black box or anything..

nacho libre

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Good, least someone on here is not naive. The CIA was the leading intelligence agency of the United States, in the 60's, why would they even have a plan to carry out a false flag using commercial planes to kill US citizens?

It got established already Saudi Spies and Saudi Officials met with the Hijackers before 9/11. The White House censored this information for 16 years to protect Saudi Arabia. The people involved in this conspiracy got protected by the White House. The only question left is did Rogue elements of the US government, military, or black project help the hijackers carry out this attack, and avoid detection. There is evidence for this if you listen to Richard Clarke testimony (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Clarke) all on video. The CIA knew for 2 years two well known Al Qaeda members had arrived to the United States and in this time never notified him or any other agency of this! Why not, why would they not pass on this information. Why was it so important for these two guys to slip through the net?

I wasn't aware of this, but nothing would surprise me. It's not that people are naive, they want evidence, but i do agree there are some people who no matter what evidence was put in front of them would reject it, as it's easier to believe a certain narrative, than re-examine ones own cherished convictions about US moral superiority. With this in mind anyone not believing the official narrative can be easily cast as a crack pot, tin foil hat wearer, etc. You could argue some of the hijackers were double agents that mislead their Saudi Handlers, equally it could be that rogue Saudi agents in cahoots with others, planned it, but that leads to the question of were those actors in US intelligence? We will never know. What we do know is Richard Perle
and others did well financially in the years after 2001. A coincidence?

BillyBobBS

Lizards i tell you, Lizards.

A Battered Mars Bar

Pac1Man wrote: »

At home playing Microsoft Flight Simulator 2000, delighted that the unusually dense servers the previous week had finally cleared up.

Too soon

Neames

I was working in Dublin. We had a young American guy working with us for a few months. Poor chap was distraught and trying to find out if relatives were ok.

I had popped over to Paddy Power and the news flashed up on the TV there, I honestly thought it was a movie trailer, it looked so unreal.

A Battered Mars Bar

I was in Barbados sipping a gin with tonic and lime. I peered through the mosquito netting startled I became when I realised Juan had stirred my martini instead of shaking as evident by the silver spoon with a trickle of condensation on it in the copper cocktail shaker.
I said Juan you stirred my cock....I was stopped mid sentence by the sight of a plane crashing into WTC on the 4k Samsung 55" which hadn't been invented yet. I grabed my iPhone and scrolled for twitter when suddenly I realised it was 2001 and not 2015 and that twitter was both obsolete and not invented yet.
I said Juan turn up that telly!
"Ere! Did Juan stir your cock!"
Oh great I thought. A loud mouth drunk English bimbo. Who let the likes of you into Barbados I said. She turned red and left with embarrassment leaving a sickly trail of Britney Spears perfume.
I said right Juan about that martini you didn't shake it like I asked. Juan quipped that's because you had a gin. I chuckled. Good old Juan.

But it was the last time I laughed. The world changed that day.

luketitz

On a post leaving-cert lads holiday in Tenerife, minds were blown.. the news was shocking too!

Cheerful Spring

nacho libre wrote: »

I wasn't aware of this, but nothing would surprise me. It's not that people are naive, they want evidence, but i do agree there are some people who no matter what evidence was put in front of them would reject it, as it's easier to believe a certain narrative, than re-examine ones own cherished convictions about US moral superiority. With this in mind anyone not believing the official narrative can be easily cast as a crack pot, tin foil hat wearer, etc. You could argue some of the hijackers were double agents that mislead their Saudi Handlers, equally it could be that rogue Saudi agents in cahoots with others, planned it, but that leads to the question of were those actors in US intelligence? We will never know. What we do know is Richard Perle
and others did well financially in the years after 2001. A coincidence?

The 29 pages got declassified in 2016. This is the link to read the pages. https://28pages.org/the-declassified-28-pages/

This is PDF https://28pagesdotorg.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/declasspart4.pdf And you see they are still blackening out information that they don't want you to see.


There likely even more secret 9/11 documents hidden away, that will never be released.

Cheerful Spring

A Little Pony wrote: »

It will remain the worst thing to have happened this century, it did nothing but give the United States free reign to be extra aggressive in foreign policy which led to the illegal war in Iraq, a war built on lies which everyone involved knew was the case at the time and still went ahead anyway.

It has helped change the fabric of the European civilization for this century and centuries to come with Merkel opening up the borders to a million refugees (mainly economic migrants in truth) into Germany. The war destabilized the Middle East, created huge immigration issues for regions in Europe, see the Mediterranean. 

The United States backed up by the UK government from the traitor Blair to Cameron have been implicit in all of this.

Over 3,000 Civilians died on 9/11, but since 2001, hundreds of thousands and maybe even million or more people have died over this event. And US drones strikes, bombings have killed children, mothers and fathers. Bush and Blair and others should be in jail locked up for life or wiped out like other insane war criminals, but they walk free.

Carry

I'm a bit late to the discussion.

I remember the day well: A friend called and said turn on the tv, New York is burning. Seconds after that I got a phone call from the building society that my mortgage application has been approved. I was jumping up and down for joy, interrupted only by some very short guilty thoughts of the poor people in the towers.

Anyway, I recommend to watch this video with original footage from people on the ground and no comments (it's long, though)

http://www.spiegel.tv/videos/126191-11-september-2001-unkommentierte-originalfassung

milli milli

I was in Holland working in a factory when the line manager told us planes crashed into the World Trade Centre and Pentagon.

A few weeks later I went to Thailand to do a bit of traveling. The amount of 'Bin Laden for President' tshirts on sale there was an eye-opener!

Anyway a couple of things never sat right with me about 9/11.
One is Operation Northwoods (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods)
Actually amazing that this existed and that there hasn't been a public outcry about it. The parallels to 9/11 are pretty obvious.

The second thing was the 'pseudoscience' and generally terrible scientific practice the investigators undertook to 'explain' what happened to the WTC buildings and why they fell.
I'm coming from a scientific background and what was presented in the report is embarrassing, you would be ashamed to hand it in for an assignment.
It's like an episode from The Simpsons really. 'She'll blow the whole deal!' An eight year old could find holes in it.

There is a group of Architects & Engineers who want a separate investigation done.
http://www.ae911truth.org
Can you imagine the can of worms that would be opened if that was ever to take place?

seamus

milli milli wrote: »

There is a group of Architects & Engineers who want a separate investigation done.

A group of five people.

2 architects, 1 engineer and two hangers-on with old qualifications somewhat relevant to engineering, but no actual experience in it.

Versus the hundreds, thousands even, of engineers, architects and surveyors who were involved in, or who analysed the NIST report.

Yet these 5 guys somehow know better, despite not having analysed even a scrap of metal from any of the buildings or spoken to any eyewitnesses about the day.

One of them cites "a discussion on the internet" as the reason why they're skeptical about 9/11.

They're con-men. They want people to sign up for a monthly membership so they can live on the gravy train. When no extra enquiry happens, they'll blame government cover-up. From the balcony of their $2m mansion.

Someone is not right just because they happen to agree with you.

Hulk Hands

AE9/11 Truth had been backed by over 2500 qualified Architects & Engineers. They've all been verified. Look at their YouTube videos and you see some of the more high profile University lecturers appearing. I can only imagine the stigma and risk attached with coming out and claiming what they're claiming. You get called a crackpot for even mentioning a third skyscraper

seamus

Hulk Hands wrote: »

AE9/11 Truth had been backed by over 2500 qualified Architects & Engineers. They've all been verified.

Have they?

Anyone can sign a petition. In what way have they all been verified? According to Google, there are about 200,000 licensed engineers and architects in the US. Which means that at best 1.25% of them have signed this petition.

How many of the 2,500 are officially licenced? How many have ever even practiced, as opposed to just having a degree?

Anyway, that's kind of irrelevant. It's clear that group are taking people's money and putting it in their pockets. They take donations, they sell stuff in an online store, but then all of their ground work, all of their internet presence, any verification, writing, video production, etc is all done by volunteers.

So where does the money go? Any respectable non-profit or charity that I have ever seen, is wide open about their activities, even going as far as publishing their accounts every year. If you're engaged in honest work and using peoples' donations honestly, then why wouldn't you tell them what it's being spent on. You'll encourage them to give you more!

Yet these guys don't even begin to describe how they spend their donations, they just keep asking you to. Just like those crazy preachers you see on TV.

If you're looking for a conspiracy, there's one sitting right there under your nose.

Cheerful Spring

seamus wrote: »

Have they?

Anyone can sign a petition. In what way have they all been verified? According to Google, there are about 200,000 licensed engineers and architects in the US. Which means that at best 1.25% of them have signed this petition.

How many of the 2,500 are officially licenced? How many have ever even practiced, as opposed to just having a degree?

Anyway, that's kind of irrelevant. It's clear that group are taking people's money and putting it in their pockets. They take donations, they sell stuff in an online store, but then all of their ground work, all of their internet presence, any verification, writing, video production, etc is all done by volunteers.

So where does the money go? Any respectable non-profit or charity that I have ever seen, is wide open about their activities, even going as far as publishing their accounts every year. If you're engaged in honest work and using peoples' donations honestly, then why wouldn't you tell them what it's being spent on. You'll encourage them to give you more!

Yet these guys don't even begin to describe how they spend their donations, they just keep asking you to. Just like those crazy preachers you see on TV.

If you're looking for a conspiracy, there's one sitting right there under your nose.

Yes AE911Truth will verify your background (job and education) before listing you online. They also have a different petition for the general public.

The aim is not to profit from it,, but they find ways to generate income to keep their work going. There is no government handouts and expenses paid by others.

Cheerful Spring

Hulk Hands wrote: »

AE9/11 Truth had been backed by over 2500 qualified Architects & Engineers. They've all been verified. Look at their YouTube videos and you see some of the more high profile University lecturers appearing. I can only imagine the stigma and risk attached with coming out and claiming what they're claiming. You get called a crackpot for even mentioning a third skyscraper

2.900 + right now.

seamus

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The aim is not to profit from it,, but they find ways to generate income to keep their work going. There is no government handouts and expenses paid by others.

What work? What are they spending the money on?

The company doesn't profit, but that doesn't mean its directors don't get paid.

However, they are definitely not paying their volunteers. Have a think about that.

Cheerful Spring

seamus wrote: »

A group of five people.

2 architects, 1 engineer and two hangers-on with old qualifications somewhat relevant to engineering, but no actual experience in it.

Versus the hundreds, thousands even, of engineers, architects and surveyors who were involved in, or who analysed the NIST report.

Yet these 5 guys somehow know better, despite not having analysed even a scrap of metal from any of the buildings or spoken to any eyewitnesses about the day.

One of them cites "a discussion on the internet" as the reason why they're skeptical about 9/11.

They're con-men. They want people to sign up for a monthly membership so they can live on the gravy train. When no extra enquiry happens, they'll blame government cover-up. From the balcony of their $2m mansion.

Someone is not right just because they happen to agree with you.

A small panel of selected people wrote the NIST World trade center report and following report about WTC7. The organisation just signed off on it when they released their findings. Thousands of engineers, architects and surveyors, members of NIST have not studied the report. This is a false belief.

Cheerful Spring

seamus wrote: »

What work? What are they spending the money on?

The company doesn't profit, but that doesn't mean its directors don't get paid.

However, they are definitely not paying their volunteers. Have a think about that.

Have you seen their bank balance? All i know is the people involved in this group truly believe they are right. I don't think they are in this group to make money.

A Little Pony

These threads just get ruined with the stupid conspiracy theories which are completely mental. Sick of hearing or reading about them. Instead of the focus on how it changed the world and the impact of the fallout for centuries. But no, it must have been a missile or a special group of men in black packed the buildings with explosives. Bonkers stuff.

seamus

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Have you seen their bank balance? All i know is the people involved in this group truly believe they are right. I don't think they are in this group to make money.

And the head of Console truly cared about suicide. And Mother Teresa really cared about the poor.

Wake up, sheeple.

Cheerful Spring

A Little Pony wrote: »

These threads just get ruined with the stupid conspiracy theories which are completely mental. Sick of hearing or reading about them. Instead of the focus on how it changed the world and the impact of the fallout for centuries. But no, it must have been a missile or a special group of men in black packed the buildings with explosives. Bonkers stuff.

I agree with you somewhat, but you forget the conspiracy theory about 9/11 is not a groundless accusation. We know this is factual as the White house in 2002 censored 29 pages of a public enquiry about 9/11 and took it upon themselves to stop the media and public seeing the 29 pages of this report for 14+ years. If there was no conspiracy why would you do this back then? This was not behind closed door documentation, they are hiding from us, it was stuff that should have seen by the people in 2002.

Richard Clarke was the counter-terrorism chief for the United States ( he was the top guy in charge of terrorism) his as high level as you can get in official circles, and he has come out and said, the CIA was aware Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazma two of the 9/11 Pentagon hijackers were living in the United States for 2 years.

Clarke came right out and said the CIA kept this information from him and other agencies for reasons only known to them still to this day. Only after 9/11 happened, his learned how much the CIA knew about this. He said this information would naturally pass along to him, they had arrived and what they were up, but someone at the top stepped in and stopped Richard Clarke knowing about this. For me this is clearly a cover up.

I don't know if buildings got blown up, but to say there no conspiracy here, you people are nuts.

chrissb8

I was 11 years old in 5th class and never heard of the twin towers in my life. My Grandad was standing infront of the TV and looked at me in relative disbelief (nothing phased that guy) I went and had a sandwich. Do agree that it changed the whole world for the worst really. Or at least the western world.

Academic

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Have you seen their bank balance? All i know is the people involved in this group truly believe they are right. I don't think they are in this group to make money.

I'm curious. How do you know this?

Benjamin Buttons

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I agree with you somewhat, but you forget the conspiracy theory about 9/11 is not a groundless accusation. We know this is factual as the White house in 2002 censored 29 pages of a public enquiry about 9/11 and took it upon themselves to stop the media and public seeing the 29 pages of this report for 14+ years. If there was no conspiracy why would you do this back then? This was not behind closed door documentation, they are hiding from us, it was stuff that should have seen by the people in 2002.

Richard Clarke was the counter-terrorism chief for the United States ( he was the top guy in charge of terrorism) his as high level as you can get in official circles, and he has come out and said, the CIA was aware Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazma two of the 9/11 Pentagon hijackers were living in the United States for 2 years.

Clarke came right out and said the CIA kept this information from him and other agencies for reasons only known to them still to this day. Only after 9/11 happened, his learned how much the CIA knew about this. He said this information would naturally pass along to him, they had arrived and what they were up, but someone at the top stepped in and stopped Richard Clarke knowing about this. For me this is clearly a cover up.

I don't know if buildings got blown up, but to say there no conspiracy here, you people are nuts.

Stop, just stop please.

Hulk Hands

seamus wrote: »

Have they?

Anyone can sign a petition. In what way have they all been verified? According to Google, there are about 200,000 licensed engineers and architects in the US. Which means that at best 1.25% of them have signed this petition.

How many of the 2,500 are officially licenced? How many have ever even practiced, as opposed to just having a degree?

Anyway, that's kind of irrelevant. It's clear that group are taking people's money and putting it in their pockets

Yes they are all verefied. I don't really believe a lot of what they say is likely, but they have been verefied as A&E's.

Yesterday you stated one of the twin towers fell on top of building 7 and damaged it, and went away for half an hour when corrected and came back either a different argument. When A&E Truth was mentioned, you clearly went onto their 'about' page and seen the 5 members listed and presumed that was the whole group. Over 100 have contributed to their videos and stated their credentials in doing so. Again, you went away and have now come back with a profiteering argument.

Perhaps the official story is completely watertight and all theorists are nutters with no valid arguments. However, you're not the person to argue this as you're clearly informing yourself on the subjects as you go along

Cheerful Spring

Benjamin Buttons wrote: »

Stop, just stop please.

Stop what? Fact 14+ years this was classified secret report.https://28pages.org/the-declassified-28-pages/

Burying your head in the sand don't change this!

We know who Richard Clarke is, his not a conspiracy theorist or some low level guy. He was head of terrorism for the United States in 2001. Video below he speaks about what happened.

At the very least some Saudi spies and Saudi government Officials had knowledge the 9/11 attack was coming! We have evidence two Saudi intelligence officers helped the Pentagon 9/11 plane hijackers when they arrived to America. Yes maybe this was not known by everyone in the Saudi government, but does it matter, they are still active employees of the Saudi Arabian government! We also got high level testimony, the CIA knew who 2 of the hijackers are, when they arrived to America and in the 2 years they lived there, never stepped in to stop or arrest them?. Why would the top brass of the CIA not what other intelligence agencies knowing terrorists are inside America plotting attacks?


The Worst case scenario is what the truther people promote and belief. Rogue groups with the US military and intelligence agencies supported by civilian leaders working government positions organised and planned out the whole thing. Saudi government/ spies or they just used Al Qaeda to hijack planes to crash into buildings in New York and Washington. The real objective was planned by US groups. You'll hear numerous reasons for why the buildings got blown up. To hide evidence of corruption and robbery of trillions of dollars. And to change the Middle East to favour Saudi Arabia and Israel and get rich doing it?

Benjamin Buttons

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Stop what? Fact 14+ years this was classified secret report.https://28pages.org/the-declassified-28-pages/

Burying your head in the sand don't change this!

We know who Richard Clarke is, his not a conspiracy theorist or some low level guy. He was head of terrorism for the United States in 2001. Video below he speaks about what happened.

At the very least some Saudi spies and Saudi government Officials had knowledge the 9/11 attack was coming! We have evidence two Saudi intelligence officers helped the Pentagon 9/11 plane hijackers when they arrived to America. Yes maybe this was not known by everyone in the Saudi government, but does it matter, they are still active employees of the Saudi Arabian government! We also got high level testimony, the CIA knew who 2 of the hijackers are, when they arrived to America and in the 2 years, never stepped in to stop or arrest them?. Why would the top brass not what other intelligence agencies knowing terrorists are inside America plotting attacks?


The Worst case scenario is what the truther people promote and belief. Rogue groups with the US military and intelligence agencies supported by civilian leaders working government position organised and planned out the whole thing. Saudi government/ spies or they just used Al Qaeda to hijack planes to crash into buildings in New York and Washington. The real objective was planned by US groups. You'll hear numerous reasons for why the buildings got blown up. To hide evidence of corruption and robbery of trillions of dollars. And to change the Middle East to favour Saudi Arabia and Israel and get rich doing it?

Sorry, didn't mean stop. I meant keep going please.
Bet you can't make a link between 9/11 and pulsating skies?

Cheerful Spring

Benjamin Buttons wrote: »

Sorry, didn't mean stop. I meant keep going please.
Bet you can't make a link between 9/11 and pulsating skies?

I dont how to describe any better. Someone with a science background might understand better what i saw.

Benjamin Buttons

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I dont how to describe any better. Someone with a science background might understand better what i saw.

Doubt it, though perhaps someone with a medical background might prove useful.

Cheerful Spring

Academic wrote: »

I'm curious. How do you know this?

Be waste of their time if they don't believe in.

Cheerful Spring

Benjamin Buttons wrote: »

Doubt it, though perhaps someone with a medical background might prove useful.

I not naive this kind of experience is not normal. I just shared a experience and is it what is. I could be just lucky to see this stuff. I was never alone in seeing this stuff. so i know is not a one side experience, others saw it too.

Igotadose

Seems like Gage was pretty thoroughly discredited by someone at skeptic.com. So what if he's an architect - he appears to be an architect that's wrong

https://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/11-09-07/

and Slate did a good job describing the 'truther' mindset here. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/trutherism/2011/09/the_theory_vs_the_facts.html

I particularly like the summary at the end of the Slate article, talking about conspiracy theorists:
"At a certain point, though, debating science and theory and ideas is an exercise in futility, because the hypotheses of conspiracy theorists are not grounded in any kind of a larger understanding of the real world. "This sounds really mean," says Erik Sofge, a reporter on the original Popular Mechanics piece and an occasional contributor to Slate. "But really, it's like arguing over the marching speed of hobbits."

It really is a shame that these conspiracy theorists don't have lives and can't move on. Those of us that lost people we know and some that we loved, have. Conspiracy theorists aren't helpful - I think they enjoy the pain they cause others or the attention they get by being outlandish and stupid.

And some of the more despicable ones profit from it. 9/11, Sandy Hook, you name it, all about causing pain to those that cared about the victims. It's really saddening that here on a board in Ireland they creep out from under their rocks to get their jollies by causing pain. This thread started out to be a reminiscences thread, and has devolved into garbage. Mods should close it imho.

Sam Kade

somefeen wrote: »

Plenty of airline pilots will tell you that it wouldn't have been difficult and that what I said about the controls is true.

So these pilots are lying then?

Cheerful Spring

Igotadose wrote: »

Seems like Gage was pretty thoroughly discredited by someone at skeptic.com. So what if he's an architect - he appears to be an architect that's wrong

https://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/11-09-07/

and Slate did a good job describing the 'truther' mindset here. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/trutherism/2011/09/the_theory_vs_the_facts.html

I particularly like the summary at the end of the Slate article, talking about conspiracy theorists:
"At a certain point, though, debating science and theory and ideas is an exercise in futility, because the hypotheses of conspiracy theorists are not grounded in any kind of a larger understanding of the real world. "This sounds really mean," says Erik Sofge, a reporter on the original Popular Mechanics piece and an occasional contributor to Slate. "But really, it's like arguing over the marching speed of hobbits."

It really is a shame that these conspiracy theorists don't have lives and can't move on. Those of us that lost people we know and some that we loved, have. Conspiracy theorists aren't helpful - I think they enjoy the pain they cause others or the attention they get by being outlandish and stupid.

And some of the more despicable ones profit from it. 9/11, Sandy Hook, you name it, all about causing pain to those that cared about the victims. It's really saddening that here on a board in Ireland they creep out from under their rocks to get their jollies by causing pain. This thread started out to be a reminiscences thread, and has devolved into garbage. Mods should close it imho.

Before coming on here crying, maybe do some research first. 850 families who lost family members on 9/11 are right now engaged in a legal court case against Saudi Arabia. Are you going to call them conspiracy theorists also?

Academic

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Be waste of their time if they don't believe in.

Not if they're making money, as has already been established.

Cheerful Spring

Academic wrote: »

Not if they're making money, as has already been established.

They have a donation page to help with expenses. If you don't want to give them a penny you can. There is no evidence this is a money maker. This is tired argument skeptics have to belittle subjects they dislike.

This what happened with Graham Hancock. For years he was attacked for talking about the possibility of unknown civilizations.Years later lot of things he said are coming true. Even Micheal Shermer, a world known skeptic, accepted Graham Hancock was spot on about gobekli tepe. Scientists and Skeptics for years attacked him said he was a lunatic, charlatan, a fraud. These scientists and archaeologists were paid handsomely by the government to not knock rock the boat, they had a agenda. So i don't see a problem if just a donation page on their website.

Igotadose

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Before coming on here crying, maybe do some research first. 850 families who lost family members on 9/11 are right now engaged in a legal court case against Saudi Arabia. Are you going to call them conspiracy theorists also?

I think your argument is called 'whataboutery.' What *about* the court case justifies the conspiracy nonsense being spouted here? Answer: nothing. If anything, the suit shows
1. Airplanes were flown into the towers - no holograms, no demolition charges, no lizards, men in black, nothing
2. The people mentioned in the lawsuit acting at the behest of the Saudi government, are dead. Not living in Switzerland on the proceeds of whatever.

beertons

I was working in Palmerstown House as a barman back then. The night before, we had a going away party for one of the girls, who was off to America the following Monday. We were everywhere the night before in Rathmines, ended the night in Gigs. Anyway, next morning, I was driving us to the Marble Arch for more drink, not for me now as I was in work later that evening. Gerry Ryan was on the radio, and we couldn't fully understand what he was saying. So we parked, into the bar, and asked yer man to turn on sky news. The roars were soon silenced from the racing channel brigade, when the live footage of the second plane hitting the tower happened right in front of us.

A few bogies started cheering, go wan the Iraqis.

Then in work that night, another lad said to me, Beery, if you're thinking of a career change, I hear they're looking for firemen in New York.

Cheerful Spring

Igotadose wrote: »

I think your argument is called 'whataboutery.' What *about* the court case justifies the conspiracy nonsense being spouted here? Answer: nothing. If anything, the suit shows
1. Airplanes were flown into the towers - no holograms, no demolition charges, no lizards, men in black, nothing
2. The people mentioned in the lawsuit acting at the behest of the Saudi government, are dead. Not living in Switzerland on the proceeds of whatever.

US government believes Saudi Arabia played no part in planning 9/11. This is a blind spot. They rather ignore the evidence to keep sweet with an ally. This is a crime for many as they see and now history, America and other countries invaded, Iraq and not Saudi Arabia in war against terror. Why was Iraq attacked and not Saudi Arabia? Saudi citizens hijacked planes and murdered 3000 people and injured thousands and intelligence documents show money was exchanged between Saudi Spies and 9/11 hijackers.

I don't believe in holograms, no planes, theories. We know 9/11 was not a straight forward Al Qaeda operation. We have enough evidence to see this right now.

Charmeleon

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I agree with you somewhat, but you forget the conspiracy theory about 9/11 is not a groundless accusation. We know this is factual as the White house in 2002 censored 29 pages of a public enquiry about 9/11 and took it upon themselves to stop the media and public seeing the 29 pages of this report for 14+ years. If there was no conspiracy why would you do this back then? This was not behind closed door documentation, they are hiding from us, it was stuff that should have seen by the people in 2002.

Richard Clarke was the counter-terrorism chief for the United States ( he was the top guy in charge of terrorism) his as high level as you can get in official circles, and he has come out and said, the CIA was aware Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazma two of the 9/11 Pentagon hijackers were living in the United States for 2 years.

Clarke came right out and said the CIA kept this information from him and other agencies for reasons only known to them still to this day. Only after 9/11 happened, his learned how much the CIA knew about this. He said this information would naturally pass along to him, they had arrived and what they were up, but someone at the top stepped in and stopped Richard Clarke knowing about this. For me this is clearly a cover up.

I don't know if buildings got blown up, but to say there no conspiracy here, you people are nuts.

Same rubbish argument as in the JFK conspiracy community. For years they said 'the files are being hidden from you' and then practically everything was released with nothing supporting a conspiracy.

Conspiracy theorists just don't consider that governments have to keep certain things secret for very good reasons: the nature of surveillance, people involved in surveillance, methods of how informers were recruited, undercover operations investigating things unrelated to the event that came across information but the details have to be kept secret to protect these unrelated operations etc. etc.

Cheerful Spring

Charmeleon wrote: »

Same rubbish argument as in the JFK conspiracy community. For years they said 'the files are being hidden from you' and then practically everything was released with nothing supporting a conspiracy.

Conspiracy theorists just don't consider that governments have to keep certain things secret for very good reasons: the nature of surveillance, people involved in surveillance, methods of how informers were recruited, undercover operations investigating things unrelated to the event that came across information but the details have to be kept secret to protect these unrelated operations etc. etc.

There not going to release information that would destabilize government institutions. The public has to believe in government, for it to work. Government, controls the secrecy, only files given over are released, carefully selected for release. If they see a file they consider truly damaging they will stick it back in the box forever.

A bullet is never pristine when hits human bone and tissue.

The Warren commission wanted people to believe this bullet (picture below) hit Kennedy in the neck, Hit Connolly who was sitting in the seat ahead, in the chest and exited the wrist area? Would the bullet look like the bullet below after this? They have never in tests ( to see if Oswald could pull this off) got the bullet to look like it does below. Reality is there was another shooter. Does not mean Oswald was innocent he may be involved in it.

Benjamin Buttons

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

There not going to release information that would destabilize government institutions. The public has to believe in government, for it to work. Government, controls the secrecy, only files given over are released, carefully selected for release. If they see a file they consider truly damaging they will stick it back in the box forever.

A bullet is never pristine with hits human bone and tissue.

The Warren commission wanted people to believe this bullet (picture below) hit Kennedy in the neck, Hit Connolly who was sitting in the seat ahead, in the chest and exited the wrist area? Would the bullet look like the bullet below like after this? They have never in tests ( to see if Oswald could pull this off) got the bullet to look like it does below. Reality is there was another shooter. Does not mean Oswald was innocent he may be involved in it.

Can't seem to locate the picture, could it possibly have disappeared into the 7th dimension beyond the pulsating skies.........or maybe the government is hiding that from us too.