9/11

Cheerful Spring

Benjamin Buttons wrote: »

Can't seem to locate the picture, could it possibly have disappeared into the 7th dimension beyond the pulsating skies.........or maybe the government is hiding that from us too.

You have terrible internet skills not hard to find. This a source you will accept?

https://www.livescience.com/41369-single-bullet-theory-jfk-assassination.html

Charmeleon

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

There not going to release information that would destabilize government institutions. The public has to believe in government, for it to work. Government, controls the secrecy, only files given over are released, carefully selected for release. If they see a file they consider truly damaging they will stick it back in the box forever.

A bullet is never pristine when hits human bone and tissue.

The Warren commission wanted people to believe this bullet (picture below) hit Kennedy in the neck, Hit Connolly who was sitting in the seat ahead, in the chest and exited the wrist area? Would the bullet look like the bullet below after this? They have never in tests ( to see if Oswald could pull this off) got the bullet to look like it does below. Reality is there was another shooter. Does not mean Oswald was innocent he may be involved in it.

Your photo isn't showing up but the bullet was in good (not 'pristine') condition for very simple reasons. It first hit JFK in the neck at full speed. As it passed through JFK's neck it slowed down, exited without hitting any bones and started tumbling while continuing to slow down. It then hit Connolly in the back and passed through his chest, mostly soft tissue, and grazed off soft and thin rib bones on the way. The first substantial bone mass it hit was Connolly's wrist but by then it was travelling at a fraction of its original speed. This meant the impact on harder bone was much less damaging to the bullet than to the last bullet that hit JFK's dense skull bone at maximum speed, causing the bullet to practically explode. Simple physics.

Cheerful Spring

Charmeleon wrote: »

Your photo isn't showing up but the bullet was in good condition for very simple reasons. It first hit JFK in the neck at full speed. As it passed through JFK's neck it slowed down, exited without hitting any bones and started tumbling while continuing to slow down. It then hit Connolly in the back and passed through his chest, mostly soft tissue, and grazed off soft and thin rib bones on the way. The first substantial bone mass it hit was Connolly's wrist but by then it was travelling at a fraction of its original speed. This meant the impact on harder bone was much less damaging to the bullet than to the last bullet that hit JFK's dense skull bone at maximum speed, causing the bullet to practically explode. Simple physics.

The bullet is pristine are you blind, it looks like it hit nothing and was never used. The giveaway is nobody even people who believe Oswald fired the fatal shots could replicate it and produce a bullet the same way.

I left out the bullet after exiting the wrist embedded in Connolly thigh. So this 1 bullet hit Kennedy in the neck, Connolly in the chest, wrist and thigh.

These are Connolly injuries from this 1 bullet (described below) if you want believe the bullet in the picture did all that, go ahead, knock yourself out.

His wounds included an entry wound in the back near the right shoulder, a broken rib, an exit wound in the chest, a shattered wrist caused by a bullet entering from the dorsal (back) side, and a fragment lodged in his thigh.

milli milli

I'm not a Conspiracy theorist and as far as I can see nobody mentioned missiles or any of the far-fetched things that people seem to pull out of the air.

The buildings being the tallest ever built (at the time) were designed to withstand the impact of a 707 traveling at 600 mph without collapsing. The planes that hit Were larger but technically less destructive.

I was very surprised the buildings fell at the time. Really they're should have been a lot of destruction on the upper floors but the rest of the building should have been fairly intact. (I have an architecture and science background so this was only from my own knowledge).

You can see this from other major building fires.
The twin towers are the only buildings that have ever collapsed to practically nothing in the history of skyscrapers.
I have done a lot of reading about the collapse due to my background and I would like to see an independent report done.

I also can't understand how people take things at face value and anyone who questions authority are considered loons & conspiracy theorists.

Omackeral

The "no other buildings have ever fallen" angle is a moot point considering they didn't have commercial airlines plough into them at full tilt with jet fuel on board.

Charmeleon

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The bullet is pristine are you blind, it looks like it hit nothing and was never used. The giveaway is nobody even people who believe Oswald fired the fatal shots could replicate it and produce a bullet the same way.

I left out the bullet after exiting the wrist embedded in Connolly thigh. So this 1 bullet hit Kennedy in the neck, Connolly in the chest, wrist and thigh.

These are Connolly injuries from this 1 bullet (described below) if you want believe the bullet in the picture did all that, go ahead, knock yourself out.

His wounds included an entry wound in the back near the right shoulder, a broken rib, an exit wound in the chest, a shattered wrist caused by a bullet entering from the dorsal (back) side, and a fragment lodged in his thigh.

This is what the bullet actually looked like. Conspiracy theorists only present the side view.



The giveaway is that the entry wound in Connolly showed the bullet was flying side on rather than dead straight, that means it had to have hit something before that, and a straight line from Kennedy's exit wound leads directly to Connolly's entry wound. So it had to have been the same bullet that hit both men.

fepper

milli milli wrote: »

I'm not a Conspiracy theorist and as far as I can see nobody mentioned missiles or any of the far-fetched things that people seem to pull out of the air.

The buildings being the tallest ever built (at the time) were designed to withstand the impact of a 707 traveling at 600 mph without collapsing. The planes that hit Were larger but technically less destructive.

I was very surprised the buildings fell at the time. Really they're should have been a lot of destruction on the upper floors but the rest of the building should have been fairly intact. (I have an architecture and science background so this was only from my own knowledge).

You can see this from other major building fires.
The twin towers are the only buildings that have ever collapsed to practically nothing in the history of skyscrapers.
I have done a lot of reading about the collapse due to my background and I would like to see an independent report done.

I also can't understand how people take things at face value and anyone who questions authority are considered loons & conspiracy theorists.

Weren't there huge steel beams up through the middle of the towers,amazing they didn't stay standing while the concrete surrounds was falling down

Charmeleon

Omackeral wrote: »

The "no other buildings have ever fallen" angle is a moot point considering they didn't have commercial airlines plough into them at full tilt with jet fuel on board.

True, they sometimes try to claim the small WWII bomber hitting the Empire State Building is somehow equivalent.

bear1

Wtf has JFK got to do with 11/9?

ohnonotgmail

Charmeleon wrote: »

Your photo isn't showing up but the bullet was in good (not 'pristine') condition for very simple reasons. It first hit JFK in the neck at full speed. As it passed through JFK's neck it slowed down, exited without hitting any bones and started tumbling while continuing to slow down. It then hit Connolly in the back and passed through his chest, mostly soft tissue, and grazed off soft and thin rib bones on the way. The first substantial bone mass it hit was Connolly's wrist but by then it was travelling at a fraction of its original speed. This meant the impact on harder bone was much less damaging to the bullet than to the last bullet that hit JFK's dense skull bone at maximum speed, causing the bullet to practically explode. Simple physics.

you cant convince conspiracy nuts with facts.

Billy86

bear1 wrote: »

Wtf has JFK got to do with 11/9?

Isn't it obvious?

bear1

Ah makes sense now! Can we re-title the thread to say "Aliens caused 9/11 with the help of JFKs assassins".

Cheerful Spring

Charmeleon wrote: »

This is what the bullet actually looked like. Conspiracy theorists only present the side view.



The giveaway is that the entry wound in Connolly showed the bullet was flying side on rather than dead straight, that means it had to have hit something before that, and a straight line from Kennedy's exit wound leads directly to Connolly's entry wound. So it had to have been the same bullet that hit both men.

Wrong conspiracy theorists as you call them,, just know, It's a fragment of the bullet.. The side view is the look of the bullet from a proper angle. The bullet has no distortions whatsoever. Until someone can replicate the shape of this bullet, the conspiracy will never go away. Even Myth Busters could not replicate it, the bullet after their test was bend and out of shape (side view) Anyway this is not JFK thread, lets stay on track.

bear1

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Wrong conspiracy theorists as you call them,, just know, It's a fragment of the bullet.. The side view is the look of the bullet from a proper angle. The bullet has no distortions whatsoever. Until someone can replicate the shape of this bullet, the conspiracy will never go away. Even Myth Busters could not replicate it, the bullet after their test was bend and out of shape (side view) Anyway this is not JFK thread, lets stay on track.

Ehh I think you need to take a look at the bullet again. Particularly the grooves.

VinLieger

Omackeral wrote: »

The "no other buildings have ever fallen" angle is a moot point considering they didn't have commercial airlines plough into them at full tilt with jet fuel on board.

One did and on the same day, WTC 7, which very much did not have a plane fly into it

Charmeleon

VinLieger wrote: »

One did and on the same day, WTC 7, which very much did not have a plane fly into it

But it did have large chunks of falling skyscraper tear a gigantic hole in it.

WinnyThePoo

What a thread.

osarusan

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you cant convince conspiracy nuts with facts.

This is it.

It's sad watching people trying to use reason and evidence, when the person they're talking to can only have arrived at their position by ignoring reason and evidence.

It's like people think, "If I can find that one piece of evidence or that one argument, they'll be convinced", but in actuality, that evidence is all round them, but they choose to imagine it doesn't exist.

Cheerful Spring

Omackeral wrote: »

The "no other buildings have ever fallen" angle is a moot point considering they didn't have commercial airlines plough into them at full tilt with jet fuel on board.

Agreed, planes crashing into buildings and jet fuel igniting should and always be considered the reason for the building structurally integrity weakening and causing the eventual failure.

However the 9/11 truther people believe is based off the eyewitnesses reports of seeing molten steel flowing! You can't melt steel at 600c ( jet fuel and office fires temperature never hit those highs) The problem is you need at least 1500c to melt steel. Weakening steel only need the fire temperature to be 600c. NIST also denied anyone saw Molten Steel or Melted Steel at the WTC North and South Tower wreckage sites? Over the years we now know this was not true. Responders, Clean up crew workers, even scientists called into analyse have gone on record claiming they saw Melted Steel, Melted girders and Melted metal.

Why did NIST ignore eyewitness testimony?

Cheerful Spring

bear1 wrote: »

Ehh I think you need to take a look at the bullet again. Particularly the grooves.

Not important. The bullet in all tests was bend at the top and bend in the middle and slightly bend in the back. That bullet least to me does not look at all bend?

ohnonotgmail

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Not important. The bullet in all tests was bend at the top and bend in the middle and slightly bend in the back. That bullet least to me does not look at all bend?

you need to go to specsavers.

Cheerful Spring

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you need to go to specsavers.

I don't see bending or twisting of the JFK bullet, maybe you seeing things i can't see who knows?

bear1

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Not important. The bullet in all tests was bend at the top and bend in the middle and slightly bend in the back. That bullet least to me does not look at all bend?

Take another look. The bullet has clearly been fired from a rifle.

partyguinness

I was in my bedroom at home studying post university. It was after dinner I was lying down on my bed before starting again and my mother knocked on my door telling me that a plane had crashing WTC. Went downstairs to watch for the rest of the evening.

As I had spent some of the summer of '99 in NY on a J1 my mother said:

'Sure not surprised with all the planes flying over NY'- at that stage it looked like an accident.

As I had spent a good 1/2 day on the top of the WTC in 99, I said to the mother that I had no recollection of planes flying over Manhattan. Which turned out to be correct- planes are not allowed to fly over Manhattan.

As soon as the second plane hit I said: 'Bin Laden'.

Cheerful Spring

bear1 wrote: »

Take another look. The bullet has clearly been fired from a rifle.

There is a fragment missing at the top of the bullet. I know that. Side view: bullet
is not out of shape, bend back or twisted. It looks straight to me, but maybe you guys seeing something i don't?

ohnonotgmail

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

There is a fragment missing at the top of the bullet. I know that. Side view: bullet
is not out of shape, bend back or twisted. It looks straight to me, but maybe you guys seeing something i don't?

that bullet is most definitely not straight in the side on view. it is obviously deformed in the end on view.

bear1

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

There is a fragment missing at the top of the bullet. I know that. Side view: bullet
is not out of shape, bend back or twisted. It looks straight to me, but maybe you guys seeing something i don't?

We obviously do but considering we are all looking at the same thing then it leads me to believe you need glasses or a magnifying glass.

seamus

Oh, well if some office workers and firemen in middle of a major disaster/emergency claim to have seen molten steel flowing, then it must be true.

I mean, there's nothing else whatsoever that could explain why they might say something like that.

I bet the pictures taken by the scientists and clean up workers have mysteriously disappeared too. Except for one really grainy picture from a distance with loads of arrows and MS Paint circles on it.

Cheerful Spring

bear1 wrote: »

We obviously do but considering we are all looking at the same thing then it leads me to believe you need glasses or a magnifying glass.

Really. Myth Busters are not conspiracy theorists, they believe what you do, and the exact same bullet they fired is pictured below.



Myth busters could only replicate the bullet hitting the chest and wrist, not the thigh and the car was stationary not moving.

bear1

Can't see the picture.
But anyway this isn't the thread for this.

Cheerful Spring

seamus wrote: »

Oh, well if some office workers and firemen in middle of a major disaster/emergency claim to have seen molten steel flowing, then it must be true.

I mean, there's nothing else whatsoever that could explain why they might say something like that.

I bet the pictures taken by the scientists and clean up workers have mysteriously disappeared too. Except for one really grainy picture from a distance with loads of arrows and MS Paint circles on it.

You believe NIST who got called into investigate, years later? Why would they easily dismiss the people who are there during the cleanup? There is pictures online of Molten steel and Iron taken from WTC sites and pictures of flowing metal, just shows how little the research you have done.

Cheerful Spring

bear1 wrote: »

Can't see the picture.
But anyway this isn't the thread for this.

If you can't see a difference, maybe you need specsavers?

ohnonotgmail

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Really. Myth Busters are not conspiracy theorists, they believe what you do, and the exact same bullet they fired is pictured below.



Myth busters could only replicate the bullet hitting the chest and wrist, not the thigh and the car was stationary not moving.

mythbusters are not the be-all and end-all of proof. they are not scientists. if you're only point is that "mythbusters could not reproduce it" then your standard is very low indeed. All those scientists who have proved it is possible are wrong and two guys who do movie effects are right. what nonsense.

Kimbot

MOD I do believe the thread is about 9/11 not JFK so get back on topic now folks.

partyguinness

milli milli wrote: »

I'm not a Conspiracy theorist and as far as I can see nobody mentioned missiles or any of the far-fetched things that people seem to pull out of the air.

The buildings being the tallest ever built (at the time) were designed to withstand the impact of a 707 traveling at 600 mph without collapsing. The planes that hit Were larger but technically less destructive.

On paper....

Grenfell tower was designed with the logic that a fire in flat would be self contained and not spread i.e. each flat was a self contained box and no need for communal sprinklers.

Again on paper....

milli milli wrote: »

I was very surprised the buildings fell at the time. Really they're should have been a lot of destruction on the upper floors but the rest of the building should have been fairly intact. (I have an architecture and science background so this was only from my own knowledge).

You can see this from other major building fires.
The twin towers are the only buildings that have ever collapsed to practically nothing in the history of skyscrapers.

But the twin towers are the only buildings that have had two planes driven into them at high speed on purpose.

This is what I can't understand when people say 'Oh this should not have happened etc etc'

There is/was absolutely no precedent for this.

Cheerful Spring

Three buildings collapsed on 9/11, people who discuss this subject often forget this. There is more reasons to be suspicious about WTC7. NIST had to change their findings 3 times after the truther movement found new evidence. This for me just shows NIST is working on just a theory like everyone else. NIST lying about no eyewitnesses saw molten steel, for me, is telling also, they are not trustworthy.

eviltimeban

Definitely not a conspiracy believer. But... I always found it strange that the pilots were able to hit their mark first time at such speeds. And especially the exact way the Pentagon was hit. Now, the non-nut in me says "they just did it". At the same time, that was some maneuvering of those planes.

partyguinness

eviltimeban wrote: »

Definitely not a conspiracy believer. But... I always found it strange that the pilots were able to hit their mark first time at such speeds. And especially the exact way the Pentagon was hit. Now, the non-nut in me says "they just did it". At the same time, that was some maneuvering of those planes.

I have heard this point being made but remember the pilots were highly motivated and committed- they trained to do it.

Remember modern planes have extremely accurate instruments and the WTC were big effing buildings that stood out like a sore thumb- clear target. The Pentagon was an achievement alight but that it what the pilots bigged themselves up to do.

The incidents that day were without precedent.

Cheerful Spring

eviltimeban wrote: »

Definitely not a conspiracy believer. But... I always found it strange that the pilots were able to hit their mark first time at such speeds. And especially the exact way the Pentagon was hit. Now, the non-nut in me says "they just did it". At the same time, that was some maneuvering of those planes.

Nothing strange at all about it. September 11 was a clear Sunny day. Twin Towers huge targets, you have to be a terrible pilot to miss . Pentagon i agree is more suspicious, the pilot had to be more experienced to get the plane as low as he did at the end. They have found plane parts at the Pentagon site. If i was to bet right now, just looking at the evidence, was not a missile that hit the Pentagon. I believe it was a plane, but a plane belonging to American airlines or was it a decoy plane used to fool everyone? Either way planes hit the three buildings.

Omackeral

seamus wrote: »

Oh, well if some office workers and firemen in middle of a major disaster/emergency claim to have seen molten steel flowing, then it must be true.

I mean, there's nothing else whatsoever that could explain why they might say something like that.

I bet the pictures taken by the scientists and clean up workers have mysteriously disappeared too. Except for one really grainy picture from a distance with loads of arrows and MS Paint circles on it.

Yet something as simple as 3 seperate ticket stubs from Sept 8th and 10th are obviously obviously faked. That's the thing with conspiracy hacks. They want the grandiose (see demolition team opportunistically planting their gear during a blackout) to be the truth and the mundane and most likely thing ignored.

Omackeral

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

If i was to bet right now, just looking at the evidence, was not a missile that hit the Pentagon. I believe it was a plane, but a plane belonging to American airlines or was it a decoy plane used to fool everyone? Either way planes hit the three buildings.

Like seriously? There were around 60 people on that aircraft. Where did they put them all? Are they all living secret lives elsewhere never to contact their loved ones again? Were they killed offside? It's just madness.

Ultimate Seduction

Looked like termite flowing out of the building to me..

eviltimeban

partyguinness wrote: »

I have heard this point being made but remember the pilots were highly motivated and committed- they trained to do it.

Remember modern planes have extremely accurate instruments and the WTC were big effing buildings that stood out like a sore thumb- clear target. The Pentagon was an achievement alight but that it what the pilots bigged themselves up to do.

The incidents that day were without precedent.

Sure, but it was less about hitting the buildings. It was more about the rapid rate of ascent and some of the turns they made. Those planes must've been on the limit.

Ultimate Seduction

Maybe the planes were drones driven by the CIA.

Cheerful Spring

Omackeral wrote: »

Like seriously? There were around 60 people on that aircraft. Where did they put them all? Are they all living secret lives elsewhere never to contact their loved ones again? Were they killed offside? It's just madness.

We have discrepancies. Flight 77 the Pentagon hijacked Plane was not scheduled to fly on September 11.. A BTS schedule listing was found, was from 2001, this flight schedule, had no tail number and flight number 77 shown on it.

BTS: The Bureau is reported to log every domestic flight scheduled from a US airport and conducted by a carrier accounting for more than 1% of domestic air traffic, and the database is required to include all scheduled flights, whether actually completed or not, unless the flight is cancelled more than seven days prior to the departure date.


There is the possibility the airline failed to report the flight in on time, but it is a discrepancy. This website below investigated it.

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/aa_flts/aa_flts.htm


Another problem. The phone calls, passengers on board 2 hijacked planes, said 6 men hijacked planes, not 4 men

If there was only 19 hijackers how many men hijacked the 3th and 4th plane? There is a discrepancy there, with the number of hijackers. The official narrative is 4 men took over the majority of the planes.

There is also the debate could Barbara Olson have phoned her Husband from a back seat Plane phone on Flight 77? She was the woman/eyewitness who described the hijackers having box cutters and knives. According to workers at American airlines, pilots, and others the back seat phones were not working on Sep 11?

Flight 77 also went missing for 35 minutes+ about 8.54 went dark. An object appeared was picked up again after 9.30 in the Washington area. Around 9.35 to 9.40 a explosion at the Pentagon. For 35 minutes nobody was tracking the plane.

MonkieSocks

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Looked like termite flowing out of the building to me..

Or


According to a theory advanced by a SINTEF materials scientist.

A mixture of water from sprinkler systems and molten aluminium from melted aircraft hulls created explosions that led to the collapse of the Twin Towers in Manhattan.

LINK

MickDoyle1979

MonkieSocks wrote: »

Or


According to a theory advanced by a SINTEF materials scientist.

A mixture of water from sprinkler systems and molten aluminium from melted aircraft hulls created explosions that led to the collapse of the Twin Towers in Manhattan.

LINK

At high temperature steel softens and bends easily so the structure buckled and it collapsed.

Ultimate Seduction

MickDoyle1979 wrote:

At high temperature steel softens and bends easily so the structure buckled and it collapsed.

The top quater of the building would have been week, but how did the whole building just collapse into it's own footprint the way it did, both towers collapsed the very same. I even thought it was strange as an 11 year old.

fly_agaric

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

The top quater of the building would have been week, but how did the whole building just collapse into it's own footprint the way it did, both towers collapsed the very same. I even thought it was strange as an 11 year old.

You have many floors (20-30 I think?) above the aircraft impact sites + all their contents weighing god knows what exerting a huge force straight down. You have the steel superstructure, which is holding all of that in the air weakened by the fires. Eventually it gives way and the weight gets released + starts to move. I think it is a bit like someone smashing a fist down on a matchbox house on a table. Everything underneath is flattened.

partyguinness

It's amazing how many aviation and metallurgic experts 9/11 spawned...;)