New Junior Cycle

Postgrad10

It's become a joke of a "profession" all right.

Icsics

Marymidlands wrote: »

One distinction in my school. Some excellent students devastated. Can't understand where they went wrong. I really couldn't say either. Many borderline higher level students got merits same as good students. Only one partially achieved.

The merit bad is too wide, as we all know there's a huge difference between a student scoring 55% & one scoring 75%, but they come out with the same grade.

Noveight

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Apparently there's a new course in Irish that I'm.meant to be teaching.

Nobody knows what it is. Nobody knows what's different. Been no in service. Principal doesn't know what's new.

I'm in my last year of the PME and am a bit worried about qualifying next year because I don't know what's expected of me in regards to JC Irish, nor do any of the experienced teachers I've asked same could almost be said with English tbh.

MrJones1973

I had just about figured out the new Jc English exam when I lost my one class of it! I thought the following was a good idea -film studies and an oral presentation . The portfolio doesn't really work as many of our students are quite weak and thus writing about writing (how they edited their work )is beyond them.
The exam itself is a ton of manure. You could spend half a year doing a shakespearen play and not see it on the exam. At all . Whatever people said about the old jc english exam-you always had drama on it and the questions varied. No rote learning possible .The same can apply to novels -a major English exam without a question on a book ?? Welcome to JC English 2017

Icsics

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

I had just about figured out the new Jc English exam when I lost my one class of it! I thought the following was a good idea -film studies and an oral presentation . The portfolio doesn't really work as many of our students are quite weak and thus writing about writing (how they edited their work )is beyond them.
The exam itself is a ton of manure. You could spend half a year doing a shakespearen play and not see it on the exam. At all . Whatever people said about the old jc english exam-you always had drama on it and the questions varied. No rote learning possible .The same can apply to novels -a major English exam without a question on a book ?? Welcome to JC English 2017

Completely agree Mr White. Bizarre that the prescribed texts lists was increased substantially yet the questions seem to have been completely dumbed down. It's a nightmare to teach & I feel myself that I'm doing 'bits' of everything but not a lot of anything. You could sit that exam without ever sitting in a class.

Marymidlands

"You could sit that exam without ever sitting in a class."
In fact I had a student who attended 10-15 days over 2nd and third year and she got a merit like the rest of class. Did the 10% at home and posted it to me.
Got same as rest who had full attendance. Soul destroying.

evolving_doors

If say 30 teachers in a school are freed up from 1 class a week for the JC planning, what happens those classes. Would it mean that there's 22 odd hours floating around to fill into the timetable?

MrJones1973

I would not despair in English totally-it's still Novels ,Plays and poems. Though we are all exam focused-it's the literature we love in the end of the day and I try to pass on that appreciation. If we get upset by things outside our control it can only lead to the blues!

Benicetomonty

Just wondering if anybody could clarify a couple of things re new JCT

1) Do 3rd yr English teachers who were not cooperating last year have to carry out the 2nd year CBA (oral presentation)?

2) At an ASTI steward training seminar in September, we were told that SLAR meetings should not take place outside of school hours, and that this was agreed upon by all stakeholders during negotiations. When queried as to the feasibility of this, we were told that that was management's problem. One suggestion was that they could take place during the house exams, perhaps after or before a supervision. Does anyone know if this has been discussed with management in any schools?

3) On the subject of house exams, a letter issued by TUI (under, presumably, the guidance of the JCT) points out that the CBAs were to replace the house exams of the affected year group (eg the summer exam for the 2nd year and the Christmas exam for 3rd year). This wasnt a recommendation, it was stated as an eventuality. Letter is attached below
Again, just wondering if these committments are being adhered to in schools in peoples' observations?

solerina

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Just wondering if anybody could clarify a couple of things re new JCT

1) Do 3rd yr English teachers who were not cooperating last year have to carry out the 2nd year CBA (oral presentation)?

2) At an ASTI steward training seminar in September, we were told that SLAR meetings should not take place outside of school hours, and that this was agreed upon by all stakeholders during negotiations. When queried as to the feasibility of this, we were told that that was management's problem. One suggestion was that they could take place during the house exams, perhaps after or before a supervision. Does anyone know if this has been discussed with management in any schools?

3) On the subject of house exams, a letter issued by TUI (under, presumably, the guidance of the JCT) points out that the CBAs were to replace the house exams of the affected year group (eg the summer exam for the 2nd year and the Christmas exam for 3rd year). This wasnt a recommendation, it was stated as an eventuality. Letter is attached below
Again, just wondering if these committments are being adhered to in schools in peoples' observations?

Surely the SLARs must take place outside of school hours considering JC teachers are getting 40 mins per week, I thought this could be 'banked' and used for the 2 hours SLAR meetings. Why give us the 40 mins and then give us time off inside the school day to do the SLARs ?

Benicetomonty

solerina wrote: »

Surely the SLARs must take place outside of school hours considering JC teachers are getting 40 mins per week, I thought this could be 'banked' and used for the 2 hours SLAR meetings. Why give us the 40 mins and then give us time off inside the school day to do the SLARs ?

Again, and I quote, management's problem. Wev been given professional time of 40mins a week. That's essentially ours to do with as we see fit, but, from my understanding, we have to put aside 2 hours per applicable subject of our year's quota to conduct the SLAR. Which is all fine, except for the assumption that this has to happen outside of school hours!

We were told by the ASTI deputy general sec that both unions and all other stakeholders had agreed that SLARs happen inside school hrs, with a provision of a few mins after if a meeting overruns. So they cannot schedule a 2hr SLAR outside of school time.

So how do we do them? Almost impossible to find 2hrs within a regular school week where everybody in a subject area is free so thats why the house exam idea was given to us. I cant think of any other way tbh.

r93kaey5p2izun

We (TUI) are being told that SLAR meetings will most likely be after school as it's unlikely everyone involved would be free for 2 hours at any other time. In my school some happened after school and some were fit in during house exams.

evolving_doors

Anabelle Chilly Tuber wrote: »

We (TUI) are being told that SLAR meetings will most likely be after school as it's unlikely everyone involved would be free for 2 hours at any other time. In my school some happened after school and some were fit in during house exams.

Told by whom?

Benicetomonty

Anabelle Chilly Tuber wrote: »

We (TUI) are being told that SLAR meetings will most likely be after school as it's unlikely everyone involved would be free for 2 hours at any other time. In my school some happened after school and some were fit in during house exams.

Obviously not a prob if every attendee is content to be there. But worth knowing that nobody can be compelled to go to one outside of school time.

Curious to know also, how many did you have? Am I right in saying there is only one SLAR meeting per applicable subject per year over 2nd and 3rd year?

r93kaey5p2izun

evolving_doors wrote: »

Told by whom?

The TUI area rep and it has been discussed at branch meetings.

You can't be given a time without consultation but you must do the meeting so you are expected to negotiate and agree a time. Management is not obliged to accommodate within the school day.

So far there have been 2 English SLARS (one after school and one during exams) and there's agreement about upcoming SLARS happening after school for 2nd Years this year. Not sure about 3rd Years yet.

evolving_doors

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Obviously not a prob if every attendee is content to be there. But worth knowing that nobody can be compelled to go to one outside of school time.

Curious to know also, how many did you have? Am I right in saying there is only one SLAR meeting per applicable subject per year over 2nd and 3rd year?

Wellll I disagree, if particular attendees are content to do it outside work hours then it sets a precedent. Others will have to follow suit.

Now is the time for union to step in and set folk straight. Simply send out a directive to be posted on the noticeboard. If that was the deal then it should be honoured.

man_no_plan

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Obviously not a prob if every attendee is content to be there. But worth knowing that nobody can be compelled to go to one outside of school time.

Curious to know also, how many did you have? Am I right in saying there is only one SLAR meeting per applicable subject per year over 2nd and 3rd year?

Read the circular I'd say. How people would expect to get a class off per week and then get another two hours off per meeting is beyond me.

CL 15/2017

The 40 minute professional time period provided within timetable is available to teachers on
the basis that they will use this time flexibly including bundling time periods and carrying
forward time to facilitate professional collaboration. Teachers may also use the time periods
for individual planning, feedback or reporting activities relating to Junior Cycle. In particular,
time periods will need to be bundled to facilitate Subject Learning and Assessment Review
(SLAR) meetings. Since professional collaboration meetings can only be held when the
relevant subject teachers can be present, a limited number of meetings may need to draw on
teachers’ bundled time to run beyond normal school tuition hours for some of the duration of
the meeting. A SLAR meeting should take place in one two-hour session. This flexibility will
be required for and will generally be restricted to the organisation of SLAR meetings.

Benicetomonty

man_no_plan wrote: »

Read the circular I'd say. How people would expect to get a class off per week and then get another two hours off per meeting is beyond me.

CL 15/2017

The 40 minute professional time period provided within timetable is available to teachers on
the basis that they will use this time flexibly including bundling time periods and carrying
forward time to facilitate professional collaboration. Teachers may also use the time periods
for individual planning, feedback or reporting activities relating to Junior Cycle. In particular,
time periods will need to be bundled to facilitate Subject Learning and Assessment Review
(SLAR) meetings. Since professional collaboration meetings can only be held when the
relevant subject teachers can be present, a limited number of meetings may need to draw on
teachers’ bundled time to run beyond normal school tuition hours for some of the duration of
the meeting. A SLAR meeting should take place in one two-hour session. This flexibility will
be required for and will generally be restricted to the organisation of SLAR meetings.

I read the circular. Already said that the provision for a meeting to overrun, or "run beyond normal school hours" exists.

"For some of the duration of the meeting" is not for all of its duration.

Benicetomonty

Anabelle Chilly Tuber wrote: »

The TUI area rep and it has been discussed at branch meetings.

You can't be given a time without consultation but you must do the meeting so you are expected to negotiate and agree a time. Management is not obliged to accommodate within the school day.

So far there have been 2 English SLARS (one after school and one during exams) and there's agreement about upcoming SLARS happening after school for 2nd Years this year. Not sure about 3rd Years yet.

1 SLAR meeting in 2nd year and 1 in 3rd year, to be conducted shortly after CBAs. No way should you be doing any more than that.

Benicetomonty

evolving_doors wrote: »

Wellll I disagree, if particular attendees are content to do it outside work hours then it sets a precedent. Others will have to follow suit.

Now is the time for union to step in and set folk straight. Simply send out a directive to be posted on the noticeboard. If that was the deal then it should be honoured.

What I mean is that if theyd rather do it then versus doing it in their free time during xmas or summer exams, then fair enough. Agree 100pc the unions need to clarify all this.

Alqua

Were any TUI people given information about SLAR meetings for 1-teacher departments?

We were told recently that in situations where there was only a single teacher of a subject, that teacher would have to attend a SLAR meeting with other teachers of that subject from the surrounding area, with time and venue agreed by the group. I was really annoyed by this - all my colleagues in bigger departments will be meeting and comparing results with each other, within the school - whereas I'll be comparing my students' results with those students from the wider area - hardly fair or consistent? Also, will the dept pay travel expenses? - I doubt it!

r93kaey5p2izun

Benicetomonty wrote: »

1 SLAR meeting in 2nd year and 1 in 3rd year, to be conducted shortly after CBAs. No way should you be doing any more than that.

Yes - that's what we have had. One English SLAR for 2nd Years and one for 3rd Years - all for the current TYs. And we are now agreeing SLARs for 2nd Year English, Business and Science.

Benicetomonty

Anabelle Chilly Tuber wrote: »

Yes - that's what we have had. One English SLAR for 2nd Years and one for 3rd Years - all for the current TYs. And we are now agreeing SLARs for 2nd Year English, Business and Science.

Sorry, misunderstood, didnt cop it that you were referring to last year for some of them.

So youve agreed a date and time for the 2nd year SLAR which is meant to take place after the CBA (The oral presentation) which is scheduled for (I think) late April or May? Fair play!

r93kaey5p2izun

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Sorry, misunderstood, didnt cop it that you were referring to last year for some of them.

So youve agreed a date and time for the 2nd year SLAR which is meant to take place after the CBA (The oral presentation) which is scheduled for (I think) late April or May? Fair play!

Dates are set for Science and English for next May, yes. I think there was some issue with Business - not sure if they've set their date yet.

Mountainsandh

Alqua wrote: »

Were any TUI people given information about SLAR meetings for 1-teacher departments?

We were told recently that in situations where there was only a single teacher of a subject, that teacher would have to attend a SLAR meeting with other teachers of that subject from the surrounding area, with time and venue agreed by the group. I was really annoyed by this - all my colleagues in bigger departments will be meeting and comparing results with each other, within the school - whereas I'll be comparing my students' results with those students from the wider area - hardly fair or consistent? Also, will the dept pay travel expenses? - I doubt it!

I'm in the same situation as you, and I'm lost tbh. I'm only starting with the program this year, and I find it very hard to figure out everything on my own. I don't know teachers in other schools in the area, so I am guessing that I will have to approach them myself at some stage, not too sure how this will all happen.
Also, I'm in a Deis school with very large proportion of special needs, and I dread to have to disclose some of my students' standards to other schools/teachers who are dealing with a very different demographic. I work really hard at raising standards, but this is really preying on my mind.

Mountainsandh

On the subject of the new JC, I think it's a lot of codswallop, an update to exam procedures and curricula would have been enough.
Instead, the money and manpower would have been better spent designing a system of professional certification at senior secondary school level similar to the French BEPs and CAPs.
There is an article about apprenticeships today in one of the papers. It is evident that there is a need for young and better trained professionals in various trades.

Meanwhile, I see many youngsters who are wasting 2 or 3 years struggling to achieve the current LC, and are often in a situation of failure (with all the mental health and social problems this might entail).

I just wish there was something there for these young people. That would have been a good move, a win-win for everyone. Instead we have the new JC.

I have 3 young nephews in France who were guided towards professional channels at TY level (equivalent). One is now a fully qualified butcher/deli professional, with a well paid full time job. He always knew what he wanted to do. He is 21, and has more than 2 full years of experience at this stage, imagine that.

Another trained in animal husbandry. He has to choose shortly whether he wants to head into vet nursing, breeding, or attempt to find an internship in a zoo/refuge/sanctuary (these are hard to find jobs). At 19 years old, he is much closer to achieving his dream job than if he had gone the Bac Général way. His academic ability was very average, but he has a way with animals. Guess who is feeling great about himself, in spite of not-so-great academic achievements ?
No mental health issues with that young fellow.

The third one was very unsure of what he wanted to do, very immature, up to devilment, no motivation, nudged to a different school after he was repeatedly expelled from the first ... but he was guided towards a machinery technician course, and so far, so good. He likes it a lot better than the more academic branches, and guess what, he hasn't had to be suspended in a while, yay.

Professional branches wouldn't miraculously solve all problems in education, nothing will, but they would really help, and in the process, it is my belief they would have a great impact on mental health.

evolving_doors

Just to stereotype a bit, in the olden days the VEC's were an attempt at vocations as mentioned above .After primary half of us went up the hill to the 'tech' for a trade and half went down the hill to get the LC for college.
The chances of bringing them back are very slim due to cost I would imagine. Also it was a bit of social engineering in terms of keeping 'the economic classes segregated' and in their 'rightful place'.

Mountainsandh

evolving_doors wrote: »

Just to stereotype a bit, in the olden days the VEC's were an attempt at vocations as mentioned above .After primary half of us went up the hill to the 'tech' for a trade and half went down the hill to get the LC for college.
The chances of bringing them back are very slim due to cost I would imagine. Also it was a bit of social engineering in terms of keeping 'the economic classes segregated' and in their 'rightful place'.

I don't know evolving doors... it seems people always come up with "good excuses" not to do it whenever I mention this idea. If it has been done in France, it can be done here. And how much money is being spent on that new JC ?
It could be started slowly. Look at how the variety and quality of PLC courses has exploded in the last few years ?
As to the societal aspect well, judging by the comments on this newspaper article about apprenticeships, there is a lot of respect for tradesmen these days.
Plus, if we decide to pass on the opportunity to offer certain courses (which could change a young man/woman's life) for fear of encouraging class divide, are we not paradoxically worsening the divide ?

spurious

The LCA should have filled this gap, instead of being treated as the poor cousin.

Mountainsandh

spurious wrote: »

The LCA should have filled this gap, instead of being treated as the poor cousin.

Exactly, and in my school we still offer it, albeit in a limited manner, in spite of talks that it's on the way out.
It's a brilliant course for some students, it's precious to us in our school anyway.
It's still very diffuse though, and you get the feeling that although it may help retain some students, and it may "save" some others from failure, it really doesn't give them the chance to shine in the areas they could shine in, and develop and validate practical skills that could lead to a job.