The gap between Disability Allowance and the national minimum wage

Andy From Sligo

My lad come out with something the other day that got me thinking. He is 24 and registered disabled still living at home and gets €193 a week but said to me I wish I wasnt disabled and could get a job and then said , do you know if I wasnt disabled and got a job on the national minimum wage I would be €347 thats a difference of around €154 extra per week - he said then he could afford to give us more for his keep and towards utility bills and if he just fancied extra bits and pieces and even if he wanted to book a taxi once in a while to get to places and more money for his medication. or even to put some savings by should one day he wants to try and live independently on his own.

- it just got me to thinking how unfair really the system is and if you like a bit of discrimination , almost like the government saying well you are disabled and throughout no fault of your own, and you cant work so we are not even give you anywhere near the national minimum wage, even though it is possible if you didnt have a disability you could find a job and get at least minimum wage income.

Bearing in mind that the National Minimum wage is not even the required national living wage.

one of his friends he meets up with from time to time is 24 too and is not disabled and on minimum wage in a job and has more income - two 24 year old's with the same interests - one has more income than the other ... reason because they are not disabled - why should being disabled mean you are worth less income ... if anything with the payments my son has to endure because of his disability it could be argued that in fact he needs more income than the national minimum wage.

I have written to the shadow disability TD in the Dail today (with his blessing) to see if she could raise it in the Dail in the near future - I dont know whether it will get anywhere but I think its worth raising.

Gatling

Is it at all possible he could get some training and a part time job to bump up his weekly money

Owryan

Welfare payments are less than a minimum wage for a reason. At least with DA you have the opportunity to work to top it up.

It may seem unfair but that's the way it is. I say that as a recipient of da myself.

Andy From Sligo

He's in no fit state to work , not even a little to 'top up' his DA.. this is what i find hard to get my head around is that DA is awarded because you have a disability and cannot work, the whole point of it is that you cannot work, but you cannot live on fresh air.... so why do the rules say you can also work whilst receiving DA it seems conflicting and it sounds like if you are able to work, even any work then what are you doing on Disability Allowance ? - in fact you try and apply these days for DA if there is one hint that you can do any kind of work no matter how small or how little hours , then you are turned down for DA and found fit for work.

Owryan

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

He's in no fit state to work , not even a little to 'top up' his DA.. this is what i find hard to get my head around is that DA is awarded because you have a disability and cannot work, the whole point of it is that you cannot work, but you cannot live on fresh air.... so why do the rules say you can also work whilst receiving DA it seems conflicting and it sounds like if you are able to work, even any work then what are you doing on Disability Allowance ? - in fact you try and apply these days for DA if there is one hint that you can do any kind of work no matter how small or how little hours , then you are turned down for DA and found fit for work.

Disability Allowance is not meant to be along term payment tho. DA facilitates someone who might be unable to work for a period of time and is able to support them in returning to employment.

If he will never work due to his condition are there other, better suited, payments? But he is not living on fresh air, he gets a weekly payment!

Maximus277

In my opinion 193 euro is decent especially if he's living at home with no kids, mortgage, travel expenses blah blah blah. If he spends 50 a week on food there should be enough there to easily get by. If he moved out he would get rent allowance as well.

People on minimum wage have commuting expenses, they might have kids to take care off etc

JollyBustard

As a former recipient of DA myself a number of years ago, I don't miss the low funds granted.

I do however, miss the Medical Card. I don't know what the cut off is any more, but I'm no longer entitled and as such have to pay extortionate amounts of my low income towards treatment and the like (I still have, and always will have my disability, but I'm lucky in that it's not so debilitating so I have the ability to work).

Andy From Sligo

Owryan wrote: »

Welfare payments are less than a minimum wage for a reason. At least with DA you have the opportunity to work to top it up.

It may seem unfair but that's the way it is. I say that as a recipient of da myself.

why is that , because at the end of the day the government want people on DA to get a job hoping that paying a lot less than the minimum wage will prompt them to?

Andy From Sligo

Owryan wrote: »

Disability Allowance is not meant to be along term payment tho. DA facilitates someone who might be unable to work for a period of time and is able to support them in returning to employment.

If he will never work due to his condition are there other, better suited, payments? But he is not living on fresh air, he gets a weekly payment!

Interesting, I thought long term illness was a short term payment and then people return to work - I'd be interested to hear about this better suited payment though please

Owryan

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

why is that , because at the end of the day the government want people on DA to get a job hoping that paying a lot less than the minimum wage will prompt them to?

Exactly and its the same reason for JSA/JSB. It's a pretty good reason i think

professore

Look at it another way, someone one minimum wage vs DA is working for 39 hours a week for €154, minus medical card, christmas bonus and other benefits, minus deductions, minus what it costs them to get to work every day etc etc so basically working for nothing. Whether the minimum wage should be higher is another discussion, but I would argue it's only people like students or older people with houses paid off and no kids that can afford to live off the minimum wage anyway.

Andy From Sligo

Maximus277 wrote: »

In my opinion 193 euro is decent especially if he's living at home with no kids, mortgage, travel expenses blah blah blah. If he spends 50 a week on food there should be enough there to easily get by. If he moved out he would get rent allowance as well.

People on minimum wage have commuting expenses, they might have kids to take care off etc

you'd be surprised, it might sound enough seeing as he lives at home but after paying towards bills , food and paying for medicine and other things to do with medical expenses not much left most weeks.

Andy From Sligo

professore wrote: »

Look at it another way, someone one minimum wage vs DA is working for 39 hours a week for €154, minus medical card, christmas bonus and other benefits, minus deductions, minus what it costs them to get to work every day etc etc so basically working for nothing. Whether the minimum wage should be higher is another discussion, but I would argue it's only people like students or older people with houses paid off and no kids that can afford to live off the minimum wage anyway.

why €154 per week? minimum wage is €1,563.25 PM which works out to €347.00 per week? - also do you loose MC on low wage?

Gatling

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

you'd be surprised, it might sound enough seeing as he lives at home but after paying towards bills , food and paying for medicine and other things to do with medical expenses not much left most weeks.

Medical card ?

Andy From Sligo

Gatling wrote: »

Medical card ?

he has, but he still has to pay towards medication and some other things that are not covered on the MC

- I suppose there will always be some that say, well he has a Medical Card and Disability Benefit and living at home as well so he has it made and that I shouldn't be complaining, but there are still weeks where he is short on money and maybe he would have more money if he could work , even if he were on a minimum wage so in that sense, its not his fault he is disabled and cannot work but there is still quite a gap between what he gets in allowance to what he could possibly earn if he could work.

Kristopherus

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

he has, but he still has to pay towards medication and some other things that are not covered on the MC

- I suppose there will always be some that say, well he has a Medical Card and Disability Benefit and living at home as well so he has it made and that I shouldn't be complaining, but there are still weeks where he is short on money and maybe he would have more money if he could work , even if he were on a minimum wage so in that sense, its not his fault he is disabled and cannot work but there is still quite a gap between what he gets in allowance to what he could possibly earn if he could work.

Have a read here: http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/da.aspx.

It might help to answer a few of your queries about it.

Andy From Sligo

Kristopherus wrote: »

Have a read here: http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/da.aspx.

It might help to answer a few of your queries about it.

thanks will do, when i am a bit more awake

mickdw

Not trying to controversial but surely there are jobs out there that he could do?
I dont know the nature of the disability however from what you say he likes to get out and about with friends etc so one would imagine he could consider some part time work.

TheChrisD

Owryan wrote: »

Disability Allowance is not meant to be along term payment tho.

Tell that to those of us with mental disabilities which render us incapable of doing pretty much any sort of structured work.

Andy From Sligo

mickdw wrote: »

Not trying to controversial but surely there are jobs out there that he could do?
I dont know the nature of the disability however from what you say he likes to get out and about with friends etc so one would imagine he could consider some part time work.

He has very bad Scoliosis - he knows his limits when he goes out, he has pain on a daily basis its just some days maybe his pain and mobility might be that little bit less than other days, waiting for an operation but on a very long waiting list, you know what the HSE are like could be years and more than likely will be - so the HSE idea is to give him drugs and painkillers for the pain whilst he waits for surgery which in themselves makes him tired and want to sleep most of the day, cant win.

he has got to a fine art when he does manage to go out when to take loads breaks and rest and his friends all understand his disabilities and help him out and are very understanding and patient,

and then if he pushes it too much, the next day he could be wrecked and cannot get out of bed - some days he just cannot get out of bed at all , it depends how he feels and how achy and how much pain - takes one day at a time its for this reason he wouldnt be fit for any work.

He dont know how he is going to feel from one day to the next , thats why he takes one day at a time - if he were able to work no employer would be able put up with this kind of routine. - even has his own hobbies and some days hasnt even the strength to finish off his hobbies .

I suppose if you've never had anything like Scoliosis or something like that your never gonna know the pain he is going through (curvature of the spine pressing on heart and lungs and other organs, and reduced mobility add to that how the heavy medication and pain killers make him feel ,

sure even i dont know how he really feels, I just look at him and see what pain he is on a daily basis and how wrecked he looks all of the time and days where he just dont (or cant get out of bed) want to do anything just lie down. I certainly wouldnt want to be inflicted with it I know that much. - its horrible to watch your children go through that and know that you cannot do anything for them - Just a waiting game for when he can get surgery now.

Massive long waiting list in Ireland for scoliosis patients in Ireland , I think there are over a hundred maybe more, people waiting for scoliosis surgery in Ireland - and his consultant even said that when he has the surgery they dont know whether it will be success.

Owryan

TheChrisD wrote: »

Tell that to those of us with mental disabilities which render us incapable of doing pretty much any sort of structured work.

Like me, you mean? Been able to get thru college thankfully. I was always led to believe da was not a long term/permanent payment.