New home sale in Rathborne, Ashtown, Dublin 15

elainers

mikehene wrote: »

Yeah, we were told May for our house but I would be happy if we were in by July TBH. I believe we have 28 days in which to sign the contracts to avail to the free white goods, so i plan on waiting till seeing work start on the development.

I'd advise managing your expectations a bit to be honest. Most completion dates tend to be dates for snagging. After this there'll be 4-8 weeks which will include the first snag snag, them fixing what was found in the first snag (that may drive up the time depending on what's found), a second snag to check all is fixed, (potentially another round if everything isn't), potentially a boundary survey if the snag doesn't include this, definitely a bank valuation, final loan bits, drawdown, legal bits on the conveyancing and finally you'll get your keys. And then you'll be moving into a house with no floors or furniture. There's a thread on here about buying a new build. It gives great insight on actual timelines rather than developer projected.

May was them starting construction October 1st just gone with no delays. Personally I always had September as a more likely point for me and Castlethorn thought March for mine (that was their official document the day of the launch) and Savill's said June was far more likely to manage my expectations on the day I handed over the booking deposit.

But the site's not even cleared yet never mind any materials delivered or building started. I'd be very happy if I'm in by next Christmas the rate they're going and my row is due to build just after show houses. Hopefully I'm very wrong!!!

mikehene

elainers wrote: »

I'd advise managing your expectations a bit to be honest. Most completion dates tend to be dates for snagging. After this there'll be 4-8 weeks which will include the first snag snag, them fixing what was found in the first snag (that may drive up the time depending on what's found), a second snag to check all is fixed, (potentially another round if everything isn't), potentially a boundary survey if the snag doesn't include this, definitely a bank valuation, final loan bits, drawdown, legal bits on the conveyancing and finally you'll get your keys. And then you'll be moving into a house with no floors or furniture. There's a thread on here about buying a new build. It gives great insight on actual timelines rather than developer projected.

May was them starting construction October 1st just gone with no delays. Personally I always had September as a more likely point for me and Castlethorn thought March for mine (that was their official document the day of the launch) and Savill's said June was far more likely to manage my expectations on the day I handed over the booking deposit.

But the site's not even cleared yet never mind any materials delivered or building started. I'd be very happy if I'm in by next Christmas the rate they're going and my row is due to build just after show houses. Hopefully I'm very wrong!!!

Yeah, you're right, I probably need to reevaluate. Do you have a link to the specific thread you mean? Had a look but there seems to be a number of threads related to new builds. Thanks

elainers

mikehene wrote: »

Yeah, you're right, I probably need to reevaluate. Do you have a link to the specific thread you mean? Had a look but there seems to be a number of threads related to new builds. Thanks

This is the one I found most useful: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057622186

I'm going to contact Savills tomorrow and ask what the story is with the site and completion dates. Might help move things on if they get a few enquiries about it pre-contract signing.

To me the contract delivering quickly is a red herring. At least if I came across a better/similar property now, I could buy it because I'm not committed. Once you sign, you're stuck waiting.

rdoyle16

I wouldn't be too concerned with progress once they actually start on site. There is little or no heavy civils work - all roads and services are in already and if its true that they are timber-framed as someone mentioned previously they should fly up. I just had a quick look on google earth there at the Adamstown site and you can see that the foundations for the show houses were only being poured at the time the attached image was taken - 7th May 2017 (google shows it in the american date format). I went to see these showhouses the week after the opening for Rathbourne Park which was less than 5 months from foundations being poured to finished and kitted out. In terms of site clearing and mobilisation this should only take 2 weeks max - but the only problem is, in my experience most contractors are unwilling to mobilise to site in December as they don't want to have to demob for two weeks after just getting set up and prefer to push it to January. So I would think it is very likely there will be no works on site this year but that by June / July the first houses should be coming on line.

summerplans

It took us 9 months from signing to getting keys in RCP if that's a good guide for you? They broke ground within around a month of paying the initial deposit. The delays were in the final month with service connections,

mikehene

elainers wrote: »

This is the one I found most useful: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057622186

I'm going to contact Savills tomorrow and ask what the story is with the site and completion dates. Might help move things on if they get a few enquiries about it pre-contract signing.

To me the contract delivering quickly is a red herring. At least if I came across a better/similar property now, I could buy it because I'm not committed. Once you sign, you're stuck waiting.

Thanks Elainers, I'll take a look through

rdoyle16

Just received an update from Savills that the remaining contracts will be issued today / tomorrow and that construction is scheduled to commence 22nd of November....

rdoyle16

rdoyle16 wrote: »

Just received an update from Savills that the remaining contracts will be issued today / tomorrow and that construction is scheduled to commence 22nd of November....

Have also just checked the Construction Information Service development tracker and the start date was updated today to the 27/11/2017 so hopefully will see them on site in coming weeks.

Daithon

Good to see the Commencement Notice up on the BCAR Register:

"Phase 1 of development at Rathborne Park, consisting of 60 No. housing units and all associated site works, commencing as part of 208 No. dwellings, a creche (plus associated outdoor playing area) and two 5-a-side playing pitches granted under planning ref: 3604/12"

localgov.ie/node/82790

Got word contract was coming out this week also (haven't heard from solicitor that its arrived yet).

summerplans

http://www.dublincity.ie/AniteIM.WebSearch/Results.aspx?grdResultsP=3

Daithon

Got word today that my solicitor received a large pack of documents today with the contract, Nd word from Savills that works are due to start Wednesday and are anticipated to be on programme.

Has anyone had much feedback from their solicitors on the contract packs? anything jumping out ?

suci2016

Daithon wrote: »

Got word today that my solicitor received a large pack of documents today with the contract, Nd word from Savills that works are due to start Wednesday and are anticipated to be on programme.

Has anyone had much feedback from their solicitors on the contract packs? anything jumping out ?

We got the same from Savills today. Also there seemed to be some activity on site today with a few builders on site and a digger has landed ( let’s hope the rest of the cavalry arrive tomorrow)

Our solicitor has raised a number of issues:

1. As expected the contracts are drafted heavily in favour of the builders i.e. 24 month completion period (standard for new builds). Can cause issues with mortgage approval only lasting for 6-12 months

2. General specification supplied in the pack is not much more detailed than what’s in the brochure. The plan of the house is also very basic and has less detailed (measurements) than what’s on the planning site.

3. We’ve been advised that it might be beneficial to employ the services of an independent engineer &/or architect to ensure boundaries are correct, check construction at different stages, and obviously undertake snagging at the end.

4. The Global Home Warranty is a structural warranty scheme (relavitely new scheme) and the sum insured is far less than the value of the property.

Generally very little info on the house we’re buying which is both worrying and disappointing but our solicitor has requested same. No CGIs, no details of finish etc.

elainers

For me:

The drawings are vague - no dimensions or square footage detailed (not even subject to tolerances). No elevations included. The drawing spec'ing out the house actually says subject to change. So basically you're contracting to buy the picture but the picture is not guaranteed. I will be asking for the spec with dimensions, elevation and square footage from the planning document to be included.

The management company budget assumes 208 properties - it does not say how the budget will be split for the first 60 houses (before the rest are built). I will be submitting a query on what happens for the first 60.

No clause that the contract is subject to loan offer coming through - this is something that's recommended for inclusion by the Law Society of Ireland when buying off plans. Basically means you can pull out if the bank don't approve you at drawdown (say if you get made redundant in the intervening time period).

They have also have in 24 months to complete the build legally (have 18 months in there but that's crossed out and replaced with 24 months which makes me wonder if they really are on schedule).

Those are the main bits I've asked my solicitor to go back on at the moment. They have a good chunk of legal review to do as well and some other bits but those are the bits I'm most worried about.

Wikidy

They started clearing the site this morning.

mikehene

Anyone else not received their contracts yet? I'm on Rathborne View

Dermot mc

mikehene wrote: »

Anyone else not received their contracts yet? I'm on Rathborne View

We haven't received any contact either and we're on Rathborne view also.
Did anybody else get contracts and if so, were they lacking in detail like the two mentioned above?

elainers

Dermot mc wrote: »

We haven't received any contact either and we're on Rathborne view also.
Did anybody else get contracts and if so, were they lacking in detail like the two mentioned above?

My understanding is they are standard contracts so they should all be like that. They have to build the houses in line with planning permission anyway so not sure why they don't just put in the specs from the planning in there.

Savills had said they were all sent out Monday so might be worth dropping them a line.

rdoyle16

elainers wrote: »

My understanding is they are standard contracts so they should all be like that. They have to build the houses in line with planning permission anyway so not sure why they don't just put in the specs from the planning in there.

Savills had said they were all sent out Monday so might be worth dropping them a line.

Agree with Elainers, the Architect will have to sign off that they have been constructed substantially inline with the Planning drawings, but it would be nice to have a bit more detail.

With regards to the 24 months for construction, again I wouldn't be too worried about this - remember they don't get paid until completion so they will want to finish ASAP to ensure cash flow. In saying this, I will be looking for a reduction in this as 12 months should be a more than adequate enough cushion for them I feel.

My only other main query was regarding parking - there are 3 No. spaces between our property and next door's the one nearest us is dedicated to us but there is no information on how the other two are allocated. I presume that the one nearest our neighbor is allocated to them, not sure about the one in the middle? It may be visitor parking?

ITT-Pat

rdoyle16 wrote: »

Agree with Elainers, the Architect will have to sign off that they have been constructed substantially inline with the Planning drawings, but it would be nice to have a bit more detail.

With regards to the 24 months for construction, again I wouldn't be too worried about this - remember they don't get paid until completion so they will want to finish ASAP to ensure cash flow. In saying this, I will be looking for a reduction in this as 12 months should be a more than adequate enough cushion for them I feel.

My only other main query was regarding parking - there are 3 No. spaces between our property and next door's the one nearest us is dedicated to us but there is no information on how the other two are allocated. I presume that the one nearest our neighbor is allocated to them, not sure about the one in the middle? It may be visitor parking?

I would say the neighbor has paid for the extra parking spot

Daithon

A few things raised below from the contract pack, id be interested if anyone else's has had feed back from their solicitor:


- specs and plans are extremely basic. needs a lot more fleshing out
- white goods offer is based on signing an unconditional contract (which wouldn't be advisable at this stage)
- subject to loan clause as noted by another here already
- structural guarantee ... says developer will register but if this didn't happen the mortgage may not be able to draw down
- parking spot is dependable on paying the service charge (so you don't own it ??)

just some headline ones above... anyone else got any such items from their solicitor?

elainers

Daithon wrote: »

- white goods offer is based on signing an unconditional contract (which wouldn't be advisable at this stage)
- structural guarantee ... says developer will register but if this didn't happen the mortgage may not be able to draw down

What do you mean that white goods is based on signing an unconditional contract?

Also I had thought under regulations/law, they have to provide the structural guarantee to have the house signed off by the council so it's interesting your solicitor raised this?

Daithon

Also I had thought under regulations/law, they have to provide the structural guarantee to have the house signed off by the council so it's interesting your solicitor raised this?[/quote]

It's the 'homebond' guarantee ... that's not a legal requirement to have.

unconditional I assumed to be signing up to the contract without asking for any changes (not sure)

elainers

Daithon wrote: »

unconditional I assumed to be signing up to the contract without asking for any changes (not sure)

Must check that one out with solicitors - if it is true I certainly won't be prioritising some appliances.

Daithon

elainers wrote: »

Must check that one out with solicitors - if it is true I certainly won't be prioritising some appliances.

Just wondering if anyone's had any update from their solicitors on queries and clarifications to the contract?

suci2016

Daithon wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone's had any update from their solicitors on queries and clarifications to the contract?

We spoke to our solicitor on Friday and they’ve heard nothing back as of yet! That’s nearly 3 weeks without reply! I’d say the architects are slow to come back on details on the house types.

They’ve cleared the front left corner of the site last week, probably an area for site office, welfare facilities etc. I’d say site clearance is all that will be done this side of Christmas.

Daithon

suci2016 wrote: »

We spoke to our solicitor on Friday and they’ve heard nothing back as of yet! That’s nearly 3 weeks without reply! .

3 weeks since your solicitor went back to Byrne Wallace??? that's crazy ! my solicitor was expecting that they'd prob get back in a week (and highlighted the importance of a speedy resolution to get the white goods). if they take more than 3 weeks to revert it's hardly fair that the purchaser would loose out on the white goods

suci2016

Daithon wrote: »

3 weeks since your solicitor went back to Byrne Wallace??? that's crazy ! my solicitor was expecting that they'd prob get back in a week (and highlighted the importance of a speedy resolution to get the white goods). if they take more than 3 weeks to revert it's hardly fair that the purchaser would loose out on the white goods

Our solicitor received contracts on the 7th and think they went back with queries on the 8th/9th. So come Wednesday that will be 3 weeks! I’ve made it clear to our solicitor that if there’s delays from their side this should not affect getting the white goods.

Jeny

Went by the site today - No further progress made on clearing the site - just that corner. Still a field with trees

Daithon

Jeny wrote: »

Went by the site today - No further progress made on clearing the site - just that corner. Still a field with trees

I'd be surprised if there was any real work started before the Christmas break, apart from some site set up maybe, it doesn't make sense to mobilise plant and materials for a couple of weeks at this stage which would be left on site over the xmass shut down.

mikehene

For those of you also on "Rathborne View", I have just been told that our contracts were sent yesterday.

The reason for the delay is that there is already a Rathborne View so they have had to change the name to Rathborne Walk.

How this has only been realised at this late stage is embarrasing for them and the council.

Means I will need to return to the bank to amend the approval letter, very unlikely to make the 21 days now but I will fight it as totally their fault.

kingofjay

just passed by rathborne park nothing move on the site. will be waiting longtime for moving in.

suci2016

Our solicitor received replies today, a whole 3 weeks later!

Number of queries not answered/ignored which is disappointing. From a brief conversation with our solicitor today the following are some of the main concerns.

1. 24 month completion timeline. They don’t seem to be willing to concede on this. Can be an issue if they don’t complete for 24 months and if you can’t get mortgage approval then. Unlikely to happen as in this market I assume they’ll want to complete Phase 1 in order to launch Phase 2.

2. Declaration of identity. Essentially the boundary lines of your property. As far as I’m aware we haven’t been furnished with this exact information. Obviously we can’t inspect the boundary lines on site as it’s just an infill site at present so this map is of utmost importance. Again very vague information has been supplied to date.

3. No update on spec. Nothing! This is very worrying. How have the costed the build if they do not have these details. Maybe the architects are slow to release them.

4. They can’t furnish the NAMA discharge letter. As far as I can gather this releases their interest in the land. They can be slow to furnish said letter which can cause a problem for mortgage drawdown or reselling etc.

5. Very short period (5 days) following completion to have the valuation surveyor inspect and send valuation letter to our bank to release funds ( all to be done within 5 days). I don’t think the bank will move that swiftly.

Anyway this is just a brief note from a conversation with our solicitor today. There are a couple of other things but I can update the board again once I get some more clarity. If anyone else has heard back would be interested to hear what their solicitors have picked out.

Cheers

Daithon

suci2016 wrote: »

Our solicitor received replies today, a whole 3 weeks later!

......

Anyway this is just a brief note from a conversation with our solicitor today. There are a couple of other things but I can update the board again once I get some more clarity. If anyone else has heard back would be interested to hear what their solicitors have picked outv.

Cheers

Many thanks for the update ! I received my contract only a fortnight ago, and my solicitors queries are with them a week now.

When I get an update will let you know.

Will be interesting to see what else comes out of your solicitors letter.

elainers

I received a reply today which was 10 days after first queries so thankfully fast. The loan offer clause was accepted which is good.

Didn't raise the completion time as it's standard across all of their builds. My solicitor did not raise Nama discharge letter or the declaration of identity so have asked them a question as of tonight - hopefully it's covered already.

The oddest answer was they referred me to Savills for the drawings with dimensions which I asked to go in the contract. Based on this, I'm guessing that they'll try refer me to the brochure only but not put it in the contract.

nmeg

I have received the contract and its with my solicitor with some queries. But one thing not mentioned at all was parking. I know we get one allocated space (i am in the mid-terrace houses) but will there be additional parking for additional cars (we have 1 but will be needing another soon).

Daithon

nmeg wrote: »

I have received the contract and its with my solicitor with some queries. But one thing not mentioned at all was parking. I know we get one allocated space (i am in the mid-terrace houses) but will there be additional parking for additional cars (we have 1 but will be needing another soon).

you should have a plan in the contract that shows which parking spot is assigned to your house. my understanding is that the assigned parking spot is dependant on your management fee having been paid ... so whilst it's assigned it's not technically yours if that makes sense.

elainers

nmeg wrote: »

I have received the contract and its with my solicitor with some queries. But one thing not mentioned at all was parking. I know we get one allocated space (i am in the mid-terrace houses) but will there be additional parking for additional cars (we have 1 but will be needing another soon).

If you're in a mid terrace with a garage, the garage is your space? I'm pretty sure there's only one space for three bed houses. Savills had said there's visitor parking but weren't clear on how much or where.

Daithon

Drove passed the site today and seen that the contractors site cabins have been placed on the site, top corner under the Rathborne Park sign

Daithon

Nothing back from Castlethorn solicitor as of today.
Anyone else progressed their contract in anyway since ??
Has anyone been speaking to the estate agent in Savills either to see of they have any insight ? Last conversation I had there was that an information evening might be suggested ... that would be a good step considering the lack of spec and dimensioned plans in the contract

elainers

Daithon wrote: »

Nothing back from Castlethorn solicitor as of today.
Anyone else progressed their contract in anyway since ??
Has anyone been speaking to the estate agent in Savills either to see of they have any insight ? Last conversation I had there was that an information evening might be suggested ... that would be a good step considering the lack of spec and dimensioned plans in the contract

Nothing yet bar Savills have confirmed they can't provide drawings with dimensions/construction drawings (as anticipated) so that has to come from the opposite solicitor.

Daithon

elainers wrote: »

Nothing yet bar Savills have confirmed they can't provide drawings with dimensions/construction drawings (as anticipated) so that has to come from the opposite solicitor.

For the plans to be worth anything they'd need to be part of the contract so understand Savills not providing them (although doubt the have them either). Surely everyone's solicitor has gone back with this as the main issue so can't understand why it's not being actioned by now.

rdoyle16

Daithon wrote: »

elainers wrote: »

Nothing yet bar Savills have confirmed they can't provide drawings with dimensions/construction drawings (as anticipated) so that has to come from the opposite solicitor.

For the plans to be worth anything they'd need to be part of the contract so understand Savills not providing them (although doubt the have them either). Surely everyone's solicitor has gone back with this as the main issue so can't understand why it's not being actioned by now.

Builders won’t provide dimensioned drawings and those furnished are always “for identification purposes only”. This is because a builder doesn’t want to be sued by a purchaser or have a purchaser looking to rescind a contract if the property isn’t built exactly to scale. Having said that, the builder’s Architect will have to furnish a Certificate on Compliance on closing to certify that the property has been built in “substantial compliance” with the relevant planning permission and as part of which scaled drawings would have been submitted to the Council.

suci2016

Our solicitors concern is with the loan approval clause. Our solicitor looked for the Law society recommended on with slight modification to allow for loan reissue but they came back with a more restrictive alternative.

The tight timelines they are looking for under the clause they are proposing would appear not to be feasible? This potentially allows them the scope (for example we you do not meet the deadlines for the surveyor and the bank approval of the survey) to use this as an excuse to put the property back on the market if they believe they could get a better price. As I understand it the turn around is 5 days which seems quite tight for the banks surveyor to inspect, report and for the bank to then approve the loan.

While we’d still get the deposit back we could be potentially back to square one! It is a risk, not sure if anyone else’s solicitors have flagged this?

toberlion

Hi Suci, Can you tell me what section of the contract refers to the
loan clause?

I'm assuming its 4(a)?

Daithon

suci2016 wrote: »

While we’d still get the deposit back we could be potentially back to square one! It is a risk, not sure if anyone else’s solicitors have flagged this?

I was just looking at the contract and it notes the closing date to be 14 days after the completion date (and the completion date is to be noticed or agreed in advance)

where is the 5 day deadline your solicitor raised an issue with? what clause ?

elainers

Daithon wrote: »

I was just looking at the contract and it notes the closing date to be 14 days after the completion date (and the completion date is to be noticed or agreed in advance)

where is the 5 day deadline your solicitor raised an issue with? what clause ?

It's what's in the loan offer clause that they came back with - that clause says if you don't get a bank loan that you can walk away with your deposit and not be pursued for the cost of the property. Not in the first draft of the contract but it's a good thing to add in if you haven't requested it to date and recommended by the Law Society. I suspect the 5 day enforceability will come down to where it's placed in the contract and whether it takes precedence over the 14 day closing clause. 

rdoyle16 wrote: »

Builders won’t provide dimensioned drawings and those furnished are always “for identification purposes only”. This is because a builder doesn’t want to be sued by a purchaser or have a purchaser looking to rescind a contract if the property isn’t built exactly to scale. Having said that, the builder’s Architect will have to furnish a Certificate on Compliance on closing to certify that the property has been built in “substantial compliance” with the relevant planning permission and as part of which scaled drawings would have been submitted to the Council.

. 
Honestly, I don't care what builders will or won't do. I'm very happy to have plans subject to tolerance levels but I will want a copy of what I'm buying in the contract given nothing is built yet. A vague drawing not providing some description of what I'm buying or its size is just not acceptable for such a big purchase. If they have to legally build it according to the plans, it shouldn't be an issue to put in the house plan from the planning permission with a note that it's subject to tolerance levels.

PhoenixParker

elainers wrote: »

It's what's in the loan offer clause that they came back with - that clause says if you don't get a bank loan that you can walk away with your deposit and not be pursued for the cost of the property. Not in the first draft of the contract but it's a good thing to add in if you haven't requested it to date and recommended by the Law Society


. 
Honestly, I don't care what builders will or won't do. I'm very happy to have plans subject to tolerance levels but I will want a copy of what I'm buying in the contract given nothing is built yet. A vague drawing not providing some description of what I'm buying or its size is just not acceptable for such a big purchase. If they have to legally build it according to the plans, it shouldn't be an issue to put in the house plan from the planning permission with a note that it's subject to tolerance levels.

Try for something along the lines of "built in compliance with planning permission ####/##"

elainers

PhoenixParker wrote: »

Try for something along the lines of "built in compliance with planning permission ####/##"

They can request amendments to planning permission after the fact - I want what's on there at the moment as that's what I'm agreeing to buy. Shouldn't be that hard.

rdoyle16

elainers wrote: »

It's what's in the loan offer clause that they came back with - that clause says if you don't get a bank loan that you can walk away with your deposit and not be pursued for the cost of the property. Not in the first draft of the contract but it's a good thing to add in if you haven't requested it to date and recommended by the Law Society. I suspect the 5 day enforceability will come down to where it's placed in the contract and whether it takes precedence over the 14 day closing clause. 


. 
Honestly, I don't care what builders will or won't do. I'm very happy to have plans subject to tolerance levels but I will want a copy of what I'm buying in the contract given nothing is built yet. A vague drawing not providing some description of what I'm buying or its size is just not acceptable for such a big purchase. If they have to legally build it according to the plans, it shouldn't be an issue to put in the house plan from the planning permission with a note that it's subject to tolerance levels.

Elainers, I'm only trying to offer my two cents here! By all means try, but don't be too disheartened if they reject your request for the reasons I outlined previously. At the end of the day (unfortunately) the contractor holds the balance of power when trying to limit their exposure to risks in these contracts and as such the buyer usually ends up owning more of the risk. The fact being that if you are not willing to sign up to their conditions (save minor amendments) they will find someone who will. Your solicitor should be able to advise you if they think it is worth pursuing and if they have managed to get large contractors to include dimensioned drawings in previous contracts.

mikehene

I'm just returning from visiting my solicitor and i raised all of the issues people have mentioned on this thread. He informed me that all new builds contracts are standard and that none include dimensions etc and that not to expect them to change anything.

I thought i'd check on this point so I raised the question on the Royal Canal Park thread on boards, asking whether dimensions were included and they confirmed they weren't. They got the plans from the site administrator or on the councils planning permission. At the end of the build a surveyor will come out and sign a certificate to state that the builders aligned to the planning permission submitted to the council.