Suicide

Just reading this this morning, and this 31-year-old man is the third son of the same family to take his life in the past 6 years. Poor, poor people. His brother Kieran took his own life at 24, and his other brother, Niall, took his life at 19 (a 19-year-old first cousin, Christopher, also took his life). And as is mostly the case in Ireland they were men.

Family pay tribute after losing 3rd son to suicide in 6 years

Ireland has one of the highest teenage suicide rates in the EU

34 suicides in three years in one Cork town

Suicide rate among traveller men is seven times higher

New figures show young men are at greater risk of suicide:

The National Suicide Research Foundation’s Annual Report shows that overall, 375 males and 76 females had died by suicide in 2015.
Rates of male suicide stayed much higher than female rates across all age brackets – the group with the highest rate of suicide were males aged 25-34 and 45-54.... the rate of suicide amongst the 25-34 age bracket for 2015 has increased compared to 2014.
In 2014 there were 19.5 cases of suicide per 100,000 population – that figure rose to 24.2 last year.

In Donegal some years ago there was also a cluster of suicides (among girls, if I recall) in the one area, as if one suicide puts the idea into the heads of people as a real alternative. It really is a destructive presence in our society.

I read that one of them was actually in the hosp looking for help and ended up leaving again. Shocking and sad.

tayto lover

bluewolf wrote: »

I read that one of them was actually in the hosp looking for help and ended up leaving again. Shocking and sad.

A bit like the woman in Wexford? a few years ago who sought help at the weekend but there were no HSE staff working. She then went and drowned herself and her two children.

When will the Health professionals or those in charge realise that mental health issues can occur seven days a week.

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

In Donegal some years ago there was also a cluster of suicides (among girls, if I recall) in the one area, as if one suicide puts the idea into the heads of people as a real alternative.

It does, it's a well-known phenomenon. Which is why the media have a code of practice where they try to avoid calling suicides for what they are or over-eulogising the deceased.

Ultimately it comes down to mental health, the awareness and provision of same. Why it affects men more than women may be biological, may be sociological, or may be a bit of both.

Mental health issues are well documented to be hereditary, so while it's incredibly tragic that a family would lose 3 brothers to suicide, it's also not that surprising.

The suicide of a loved one can often trigger the individual into the depressive spiral which leads to suicide. Usually this requires them to have been struggling with mental health for a while, though it can also be quite sudden.

Chester Bennington would be a high-profile example of someone who found himself locked into the death spiral after the suicide of a close friend, and just couldn't pull himself out of it again.

Grayson

seamus wrote: »

It does, it's a well-known phenomenon. Which is why the media have a code of practice where they try to avoid calling suicides for what they are or over-eulogising the deceased.

The same thing happens with Terrorist attacks. One attack is more likely to spawn more. And even the language used can make it more likely. Experts always ask the press to never use the phrase "lone wolf" as it glamorises them.

As a kid there was a cluster of suicides around where I lived. When it happens it almost makes it more acceptable to people who are in the same mindset. Our mental health services have a lot to be desired but it is a hell of a lot better than it was 20 years ago. We've leaped forward but we still have a hell of a lot to do.

I think it's something like 1 in 4 people will experience anxiety or depression. Although most won't commit suicide we still need more services and more education to help deal with this.
When i was in school 20 years ago there was nothing about this. I went to a religious school that taught that it was a sin and I think that was supposed to be enough to stop people. I hope it's moved on from that and if not, it should.

one armed dwarf

The phenomenon of suicide-clustering is really scary to me. Heard it described as being like given 'permission' to take one's life. Horrifying.

Your Face

A lot of work to be done.

johnnyskeleton

Theres an old addage that in China people go to the doctor when they are well so that they stay well, rather than only going when they actually get sick.

Whether it is true or not, prevention is definitely better than cure.

If I ruled the world, I would make going to a therapist for a check up be as normal as going to a dentist or doctor for a check up.

People should stop thinking of mental illnesses as something that other people were born with and they dont have, and start thinking of it like any other health issue that you have to guard against.

screamer

The problem with treatment for urgent mental health issues, is that there is no quick fix. If you break an arm or leg, you go and get it patched up, there's ways to treat the pain straight away. There's no such help for mental health, and often people are in such distress when they reach that tipping point, that the pain is just too much. It's awful and tragic at the same time. I also know of families that have literally been decimated by suicide. Mental health is still an area that has a lot of stigma around it, and TBH, I think it always will unfortunately. I even know of people who suffer with depression on an on going basis, but daren't even tell their boss, as they feel they'd be "labelled" or "tainted" in terms of promotions etc in the company, and don't want to be gossiped about and laughed at by co-workers. We need to do much more to not just address but to treat mental health issues, and make services available out of hours for when desperate people need life saving help, but sadly, often can't get it.

dancingqueen

I went to school with a chap that later commit suicide, after his brother did the same. This was after their father died from a long term illness. I am from the midlands and could count at least 10 people I've known, all men, that commit suicide. Ireland is rampant with it. We are doing something very wrong, even with all this awareness, mental health still has a huge stigma.

Bigbagofcans

Grayson wrote: »

I think it's something like 1 in 4 people will experience anxiety or depression. Although most won't commit suicide we still need more services and more education to help deal with this.
When i was in school 20 years ago there was nothing about this. I went to a religious school that taught that it was a sin and I think that was supposed to be enough to stop people. I hope it's moved on from that and if not, it should.

Statistics always seem to give figures like 1 in 4 will experience anxiety or depression in their lives.
From experience with family and friends I'd put it as high as 3 in 4 people will go through depression and/or anxiety.

Mental health/Mindfulness/Guidance in Life etc should be a core subject in school I think.
I think we only got one hour of it in a religion class in my whole 5 years in secondary school. Shameful.

one armed dwarf

screamer wrote: »

The problem with treatment for urgent mental health issues, is that there is no quick fix. If you break an arm or leg, you go and get it patched up, there's ways to treat the pain straight away. There's no such help for mental health, and often people are in such distress when they reach that tipping point, that the pain is just too much. It's awful and tragic at the same time. I also know of families that have literally been decimated by suicide. Mental health is still an area that has a lot of stigma around it, and TBH, I think it always will unfortunately. I even know of people who suffer with depression on an on going basis, but daren't even tell their boss, as they feel they'd be "labelled" or "tainted" in terms of promotions etc in the company, and don't want to be gossiped about and laughed at by co-workers. We need to do much more to not just address but to treat mental health issues, and make services available out of hours for when desperate people need life saving help, but sadly, often can't get it.

Tbf there are things like benzos which take the anxiety off a bit in bad situations and ways to intervene when someone is feeling really awful. But it's not something you can do for someone when they're not forthcoming about their problems and their mind is such a chaotic fog that ending their lives seems the best choice available.

BorneTobyWilde

Sometimes it's the only answer .

MagicIRL

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Sometimes it's the only answer .

Suicide is never, ever the answer. The pain it inflicts on everyone left behind is unimaginable.

It is 100% perfectly normal and natural not to be OK and to not feel good about yourself from time to time. It happens to everyone. Even here on boards you'll find a monster of a thread with people from all walks of life discussing their own mental health.

If you ever feel like suicide is the only answer then I implore you to talk to someone, anyone and seek help.

https://www.samaritans.org/your-community/samaritans-ireland-scotland-and-wales/samaritans-ireland

There is a great Churchill quote I like "When you're going through hell... keep going."

BorneTobyWilde

MagicIRL wrote: »

Suicide is never, ever the answer. The pain it inflicts on everyone left behind is unimaginable.

It is 100% perfectly normal and natural not to be OK and to not feel good about yourself from time to time. It happens to everyone. Even here on boards you'll find a monster of a thread with people from all walks of life discussing their own mental health.

If you ever feel like suicide is the only answer then I implore you to talk to someone, anyone and seek help.

https://www.samaritans.org/your-community/samaritans-ireland-scotland-and-wales/samaritans-ireland

There is a great Churchill quote I like "When you're going through hell... keep going."

TALK TALK TALK .
Who truly wants to go out of their way to help someone.
It's easy afterwards to claim they would have helped.

MagicIRL

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

TALK TALK TALK .

You've hit the nail on the head there.

Once you talk about it, once you realise it's not just you, once you realise you're not the first and not the last, once you realise you are no different than millions of other people on this big blue ball then you begin to feel better about yourself and can work through your predicament.

I'm just going to ignore the rest of the muck you're peddling.

Mrs OBumble

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

Mental health/Mindfulness/Guidance in Life etc should be a core subject in school I think.

Agree re awareness of both the need to promote mental health, and awareness of mental illnesses and the need to seek treatment if you or a loved one have symptoms.

But mindfulness /meditation is a bit of a mine-field. In people with some mental illnesses, mindfulness sessions can trigger self-harming behaviours, including the ultimate one. So it needs to be optional and led by suitably qualified people who can recognise and assist people who are distressed by it.

I don't use the S-word, because every time it's used, it becomes that bit more normal.

Assetbacked

The way society views men needs to be looked at as suicide is so much more of a male problem than female problem in Ireland. The difference in rates is shocking.

http://www.nsrf.ie/statistics/suicide/

Hammer89

I started a thread last year asking if Ireland really had an obesity problem or an unhappiness problem, with those people turning to food to soothe and suppress emotions, and I think our suicide rates support that theory. We're a nation of very sad, very stressed-out people.

BillyBobBS

Knew a guy, two kids, married, great house, great job, life of the party, played sports etc.. on the outside his life was great. His wife came home with the kids one Saturday after collecting them from football to find him dead, hung himself.

How someone carries themselves to the world means nothing, they could be lost on the inside and you'd never know it.

After i heard what he did i pick up the phone at least once a week and ring around my friends just to say hello and we all make an effort to play pitch and putt once a month at least. I don't know if that alone would make a difference to any of us but i'd like to think it does.

sashafierce

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ChikiChiki

More awareness needs to be targetted around the pain suffered by those left behind. Its unimaginable and something i will never recover from.

jacksie66

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sashafierce

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freshpopcorn

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

If I ruled the world, I would make going to a therapist for a check up be as normal as going to a dentist or doctor for a check up.

The thing is tough is for a lot of people I know they don't go to the doctor/dentist until they are in a lot of pain and a lot wouldn't see a doctor/dentist for years.

7 Seconds...

“Suicide is not chosen; it happens when pain exceeds resources for coping with pain.” David L. Conroy

mzungu

Assetbacked wrote: »

The way society views men needs to be looked at as suicide is so much more of a male problem than female problem in Ireland. The difference in rates is shocking.

http://www.nsrf.ie/statistics/suicide/

Rates of women dying by suicide are rising fast. So it is an issue for both men and women.

mzungu

sashafierce wrote: »

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I thought they would have been open about it in the US? One in six Americans take anti-depressants. I am not saying you are wrong or anything, I just find it strange that a country that pops pills like candy would shy away from having mental health issues in the media.

Dyr

One of my relatives has tried to top himself about three times in the last few months,

winds up in hospital each time, he should be committed but they refuse to because they say its an addiction issue rather than mental disorder so he's released to have another go even though he's completely radio rental at this stage

Thats the irish system

one armed dwarf

Regarding the US it seems to me they're a bit too liberal with the meds. Met a few from San Francisco who would take Zanax before going on a tinder date, seemed excessive.

valoren

To be blunt, I've thought about committing suicide in recent months. I would never do it but I certainly wouldn't be arrogant enough to say I'm strong minded enough to stop it from ever happening. A redundancy, a criminal conviction or something along those lines could possibly have the potential to deeply affect me.

I even have it all planned out in my head. I would walk into the sea, we live near the beach, very early in the morning, fully clothed and just drown myself.

I think in a period of mental fragility I might just be capable of going through with that but then I think of the consequences, I have a wife and daughter, and like snapping my fingers the thoughts vanish. It's not that I'm depressed, it's more fantastical thoughts of what if, curiosity of what would happen. It's hard to describe but my guess is that it's that control someone has, the choice of being able to actually kill yourself is that which overwhelms someone and spurs them to turn that thinking into actual doing.

It's not that I am unhappy. I'm not. But there are times when things become so stressful that your mind thinks such extreme thoughts and I hope I'm smart enough to think that if they become pervasive and frequent, or if something happened to trigger those thoughts that I would ask for help. Personally, I would be embarrassed to say that to anyone. Maybe it's the need in men to not show weakness that prevents that, that it allows that process to follow through without support.

marklazarcovic

Funeral recently,mother of young lad whos funeral it was produces a photo taken from the fridge in her home,her now deceased son with his 4 mates when they were younger,taken out the back garden.

All 5 dead now by suicide. Under 30 yrs old all.

It is a epidemic in Ireland Imo, through all walks of life,more prevalent I think in under 40's ,and how it's not a national debate I just don't know, embellished figures are not helping either.

In fact,it's getting worse,so it goes without saying the approach we as a nation are taking to it is wrong, hushed tones are no good.

Someone in Despair should not be avoided,we aren't used to facing it willingly, despite our best wishes sometimes.its hard to not take the easy route . Avoidance..

Unfortunately it's not hard to take the easy route out if your the one in Despair.

one armed dwarf

one armed dwarf wrote: »

Regarding the US it seems to me they're a bit too liberal with the meds. Met a few from San Francisco who would take Zanax before going on a tinder date, seemed excessive.

It is excessive. So many people who don't have the inner capacity to manage their feelings and anxieties. I'm not immune to popping a pill myself.

Suicide is a heartbreaking reality of life. My view is that there are those who decide they are done with living and no amount of support and assistance will change that. Of course there are also those who just need to know they aren't alone, a reminder that life is worth it, that they are worth it.

I watched something recently. I won't name it because it will only spoil it for others. In it a woman commits suicide. It's clear to me from the beginning that her mind won't be changed. She isn't psychotic but is deeply troubled about something she feels there is no way back from. Not everyone wants to be saved.

sashafierce

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pilly

Is this really a subject for AH?

marklazarcovic

pilly wrote: »

Is this really a subject for AH?

Should never be a hidden topic

pilly

pilly wrote: »

Is this really a subject for AH?

Yes. It should be discussed.

pilly

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Should never be a hidden topic

I'm not saying it should be hidden. Just that AH can be a dangerous place for this type of discussion.

I'd hate for someone contemplating suicide to come across a thread with some smart alec comments that are of no help to anyone.

pilly

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes. It should be discussed.

See my previous post. I haven't said it shouldn't be discussed.

pilly

pilly wrote: »

See my previous post. I haven't said it shouldn't be discussed.

I see your point but you could place the same restriction on other topics for fear of a, b, or c happening. It's a discussion site at the end of the day.

pilly

Deleted User wrote: »

I see your point but you could place the same restriction on other topics for fear of a, b, or c happening. It's a discussion site at the end of the day.

True, I'll leave it to the mods. I've no doubt though that some prick is going to come along and post something extremely insensitive purely because they can and it's in AH.

nacho libre

I hope this does not come across as making light of suicide, but i was recently at a notorious spot(Beachy Head) for suicide in the UK- i was not aware of this when i went there.

I was there for the fantastic views. While there someone saw me looking over the edge and thought that I was contemplating jumping. I am afraid of heights so I like to test my nerve. Anyway as I was coming down a member of a 24 hour suicide prevention patrol came to talk to me .

I told him I came here to enjoy a day out. I was initially very embarrassed, but got over it and started talking to him.

He told me of the amount of the people they manage to talk out of it, but that some do get quite angry at being spotted. He said most won't come back after being talked out of it, but some will. He also stated that those left behind should not blame themselves, as often the person in question is at peace with their decision in the lead up to it and therefore nothing will seem amiss.

Alkers

More people die from suicide here than die on the roads. When you consider the resourcing levels put into road safety and the publicity it garners, the investment in mental health is almost criminal.

Omackeral

pilly wrote: »

I'm not saying it should be hidden. Just that AH can be a dangerous place for this type of discussion.

I'd hate for someone contemplating suicide to come across a thread with some smart alec comments that are of no help to anyone.

Haven't seen any joke comments on here. Most people know the line and most people have been affected with this horrible situation in some shape or another. In my opinion and in my circle of friends, it's absolutely ok not to be okay (even if I do hate that phrase :P) and that the stigma among us would be on anyone judging/slagging someone for being depressed or suicidal or ill.

mzungu

pilly wrote: »

True, I'll leave it to the mods. I've no doubt though that some prick is going to come along and post something extremely insensitive purely because they can and it's in AH.

AH can sometimes rise to the challenge, look at the "Lets All Laugh at Depression" thread for evidence.

marvin80

Powerful message/song by the Rubberbandits:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4WfDafHijY

Noveight

Thankfully my family nor my close group of friends have never been affected by suicide. I can only imagine it is a terrible way to lose someone.

Stone Deaf 4evr

The big problem with mental health in this country is that we look at it like its something you either have or haven't got. As I've grown older and seen people talk about things like not having confidence, thinking people didn't value them, low self esteem, I've realised 'holy ****, I've felt like that now and again'. Mental health is no different to physical health, it can come and go as easily as a cold or cough, the trick is to recognise it and get yourself looked after.

Spudmonkey

marvin80 wrote: »

Powerful message/song by the Rubberbandits:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4WfDafHijY

When I heard it first I thought, jeez that's a bit dark but it's very well put together.

Widdershins

The news that antidepressants have now been shown to be effective for depression and anxiety, after it was thought that they're little more than a placebo, might encourage people to look for treatment. There's too much stigma and fear around antidepressants.

anais

On my own experience with depression , people tend to become very withdrawn from others and society. Asking for help/talking is almost impossible in that situation. I work with kids and have done a number of courses and teaching them resilience is of enormous benefit. Life can be very tough and how we manage our emotions is critical. Cognitive behavioural therapy also works in that through practise your response to stressful situations can be changed. Lots of research done in these areas but very little has filtered through to schools/gps imo.