Suicide

Gimme A Pound

Yeah I know someone who was in a similar situation to Wabbit Ears - he worked in a company that is actually in a healthcare related field, and despite all their platitudes, they were very concerned (and not about him) when he went to them about his own issues. They had a very rigid approach to everything, even during people's breaks, monitoring and micro managing to oblivion, and they could not handle any little deviation from their "way". If someone was "different" from the very specific type of drone they wanted, it was a black mark against them. Farcical. He left before he was pushed. From the sounds of it, the latter seemed only too likely. But he was better off too.

To be fair, I don't think it applies to every organisation, but I'd say there are plenty of companies where employees wouldn't feel like they could even dream of reaching out to management if they had mental health issues.

BalcombeSt4

MagicIRL wrote: »

Suicide is never, ever the answer. The pain it inflicts on everyone left behind is unimaginable.

It is 100% perfectly normal and natural not to be OK and to not feel good about yourself from time to time. It happens to everyone. Even here on boards you'll find a monster of a thread with people from all walks of life discussing their own mental health.

If you ever feel like suicide is the only answer then I implore you to talk to someone, anyone and seek help.

https://www.samaritans.org/your-community/samaritans-ireland-scotland-and-wales/samaritans-ireland

There is a great Churchill quote I like "When you're going through hell... keep going."

That's true.
My cousin, who was also one of my best friends killed himself 3 years ago. his family is just not the same, his mother got cancer about 6 months after his death, we put the suicide down as a big reason why.

25 years of age, after doing all the studying and training to qualify as a doctor, they find his body after 2 days in the hospital storeroom. Poor man. Whatever about hospital consultants, I really don't envy the burden placed on GPs these day. There was a man on the radio a few years ago speaking about the mental health burden faced by gps in Ireland and how they are often among the last people in society to seek help. It was a really eye-opening interview (on, I think, Morning Ireland). It seems the situation for GPs in Britain is, no better.

Doctor lay dead in Birmingham hospital storeroom for two days

Foweva Awone

[Deleted User] wrote: »

25 years of age, after doing all the studying and training to qualify as a doctor, they find his body after 2 days in the hospital storeroom. Poor man. Whatever about hospital consultants, I really don't envy the burden placed on GPs these day. There was a man on the radio a few years ago speaking about the mental health burden faced by gps in Ireland and how they are often among the last people in society to seek help. It was a really eye-opening interview (on, I think, Morning Ireland). It seems the situation for GPs in Britain is, no better.

Doctor lay dead in Birmingham hospital storeroom for two days

Adam Kay's memoir "This Is Going To Hurt" gives a good insight into the pressures junior doctors are subjected to in the NHS.

Fecking hell. In The Guardian today there's a story of a 12-year-old girl who took her own life. 12.

Girl killed herself after intense social media activity, inquest finds

A 12-year-old schoolgirl who killed herself was “emotionally overwhelmed” and influenced by her intense use of social media, a coroner has said.

Jessica Scatterson, from Dallam in Warrington, was discovered in her bedroom, surrounded by soft toys and with “RIP” written on her heel, two days before her 13th birthday in April 2017.

She was allegedly bullied at school and struggled to cope with the pressures of social media, an inquest heard.

Recording a verdict of suicide, the senior coroner for Cheshire, Alan Moore, said: “It is clear to me that Jessica must have felt emotionally overwhelmed at the time she took her own life. The level and the intensity of her activity on social media platforms, particularly in the buildup to her death, cannot have failed to have influenced her thinking, her state of mind.”

Police found disturbing messages and drawings in Jessica’s room, including references to suicide and death.

Jessica’s friends had alerted police after seeing harrowing messages on her social media in the early hours of 22 April. She had posted a picture of her foot and a list of reasons why she should kill herself, the inquest heard.

Her father, Christopher, 41, was woken by officers and spoke to them from an upstairs window before they heard a scream from inside. Sgt Ross Dryden, of Cheshire police, told the inquest he tried to resuscitate Jessica until paramedics arrived but she was later pronounced dead.

Jessica named her alleged bullies in a suicide note, and abusive messages were discovered on her iPad.

In April 2016 there had been an alleged incident “relating to Jessica being bullied at school”, the inquest heard. Jessica had come home with scratches on her face and a swollen eye after arguing with another girl, Insp Hannah Friend said. The incident was reported to police but no action was taken as it was unclear who had started the fight.

banie01

That's absolutely heart-breaking.
I have posted about this many times in the past and will continue to bang the drum on it until hopefully there is a change.

Suicide in Ireland, by the very nature of the onerous standard of evidence required for a coroner to record a death as such...
Is hugely under-reported!

For a coroner to record a death as a suicide the deceased must have made their intention to end their life clearly known and given the stigma that still surrounds suicide it is still seen as a kindness to record a death as misadventure or accident.

If memory serves in 2014, @80000 cases of self harm presented to Irish Hospitals.
Yet only @500 deaths were recorded as suicide.

I really believe a concerted effort along the lines and funding of the RSA campaigns would make drastic inroads in the level of suicide.
The current fudge regarding the recording of death by suicide does the quest for funding no favours!

whiskeyman

banie01 wrote: »

For a coroner to record a death as a suicide the deceased must have made their intention to end their life clearly known and given the stigma that still surrounds suicide it is still seen as a kindness to record a death as misadventure or accident.

If memory serves in 2014, @80000 cases of self harm presented to Irish Hospitals.
...
The current fudge regarding the recording of death by suicide does the quest for funding no favours!

I never thought of that before.
That's actually shocking the real number that could go down to taking your own life.
Has anyone ever tried to put a 'realistic' figure on it?

Hector Savage

Deleted User wrote: »

Fecking hell. In The Guardian today there's a story of a 12-year-old girl who took her own life. 12.

Girl killed herself after intense social media activity, inquest finds

Heaertbreaking, Social Media companies have a lot to answer for.

Hector Savage

Those car deaths on the roads too, one man, early hours of the morning, no other cars involved, no alcohol in system, straight stretch of road, normal conditions ..... makes you wonder.

cyclocross!

Hector Savage wrote: »

Heaertbreaking, Social Media companies have a lot to answer for.

Or parents.

monkeybutter

Hector Savage wrote: »

Those car deaths on the roads too, one man, early hours of the morning, no other cars involved, no alcohol in system, straight stretch of road, normal conditions ..... makes you wonder.

speeding... tiredness... danger **** gone wrong etc lots of reasons really

New Home

cyclocross! wrote: »

Or parents.

Or bullies.

tcawley29

Hector Savage wrote: »

Heaertbreaking, Social Media companies have a lot to answer for.

Heartbreaking yes but I fail to see how social media is to blame here. Social media didn't bully the girl, people did. I would say parents/teachers are more so to blame here.

I'm not saying the girls parents either I mean the bully's parents. Something wrong with the upbringing there

New Home

tcawley29 wrote: »

Heartbreaking yes but I fail to see how social media is to blame here. Social media didn't bully the girl, people did. I would say parents/teachers are more so to blame here.

I'm not saying the girls parents either I mean the bully's parents. Something wrong with the upbringing there

I agree with everything you said, but I do think social media are also to blame, at least in part, as they were one of the means through which the bullying was carried out. I do get your point, though, it's like blaming the car and not the drunk driver in the case of a car crash - still, if the car had dodgy brakes, it's also the car's fault, in a way, and not just the drunk driver's.

pgj2015

if a kid is being bullied online or through phone texts etc, why doesnt someone try to get the kid to delete their social media, and maybe get rid of the phone for a while. then it makes it harder for the bullies to bully them. if i had a child they wouldnt be allowed access to a mobile phone or be on social media until they were 18.

HamSarris

pgj2015 wrote: »

if a kid is being bullied online or through phone texts etc, why doesnt someone try to get the kid to delete their social media, and maybe get rid of the phone for a while. then it makes it harder for the bullies to bully them. if i had a child they wouldnt be allowed access to a mobile phone or be on social media until they were 18.

Any other words of wisdom for parents out there? Don't let you child have a punchable face?

pgj2015

it is not advice, it is me stating what I would do.

freshpopcorn

pgj2015 wrote: »

if i had a child they wouldnt be allowed access to a mobile phone or be on social media until they were 18.

I'd have known parents with similar rules. There kids did everything behind there parents back and they hadn't a clue and if an issue did arise they couldn't talk to them.

Hector Savage

Hector Savage wrote: »

Those car deaths on the roads too, one man, early hours of the morning, no other cars involved, no alcohol in system, straight stretch of road, normal conditions ..... makes you wonder.

Well, these are possibly an example of "considerate" suicides - if it's a straightforward suicide does the Mortgage Protection/Life Insurance have to pay out to help your wife and/or children?

But a really good point by Banie01 above above that the number of suicides is, by its nature, going to be greatly underestimated. There are so many ways to die by "accident".

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Angela Zealous Beef wrote: »

Not always. And not just in the case of terminal illnesses as mentioned, but severe mental illness too.

While the “temporary solution” saying might seem glib, I think there is some truth to it. I remember reading a long-term study done about people who had been stopped from jumping off a bridge that was a well known suicide site. It was a large sample. They checked back on the people many years later and only something like 5% ever attempted suicide again. Some succeeded. Others who had died, had died from other causes. So stopping these people did help the majority of them. If we disregard the “temporary solution” sentiment then it’s kind of saying that there’s no point trying to help suicidal people because they’ll just do it again anyway when that isn’t necessarily the case. Even people with mental illnesses might be glad that they were stopped. The lad interviewed in the documentary ‘The Bridge’ who survived his jump off the Golden Gate Bridge seemed happy that he hadn’t succeeded despite still being mentally ill.

pgj2015

pgj2015 wrote: »

if a kid is being bullied online or through phone texts etc, why doesnt someone try to get the kid to delete their social media, and maybe get rid of the phone for a while. then it makes it harder for the bullies to bully them. if i had a child they wouldnt be allowed access to a mobile phone or be on social media until they were 18.

Good luck with that one.

You can’t stop them, the trick is to be open and make sure you know their pin so you can have a look from time to time.

kateee47298

pgj2015 wrote: »

if a kid is being bullied online or through phone texts etc, why doesnt someone try to get the kid to delete their social media, and maybe get rid of the phone for a while. then it makes it harder for the bullies to bully them. if i had a child they wouldnt be allowed access to a mobile phone or be on social media until they were 18.

Kids can be very sneaky about accessing social media. I would also worry that taking this away would isolate kids from their friends, I know i used to use social media to chat to my friends after school in the evenings etc.

punisher5112

I went through torture from pre school all the way to the end....

I was never happy and afraid to go to school and I did think of ending things on numerous occasions even holding a knife to my chest or neck.
My family or actually nobody knows this but it is something I've lived with and I can see now that it was best getting through it and I'm better after it all and as much as my job gets me down etc I'll still motor on.

School from the start was just the worst thing I can imagine or think of as I was left out, laughed at, made fun of, made out to be a fool, gay even though not but I have no issues with anyone who is, beat up many times, things robbed off me, stabbed with compass and such, told I would be got after school, my appearance was always something also and of course red hair didn't help at all.

I wet the bed till near 18 and as soon as school was done this actually stopped... I mean every night since a toddler and I'm a bit sad my family didn't pick up on this.

I was actually afraid to go to school and anything like a birthday party as I would only be asked to then again be the laugh of it all oh and talk of the week in school.

There is so much that happened I honestly couldn't even remember half of it and have moved on but I can tell you one thing I will take absolutely no **** off anyone and have no problems sticking up for myself or what's right and even in work Ive had to whether it was going to get me in hot water or not( as in draw attention and end up before management).

I have absolutely zero time for bullies or just any type of a#s hat in life and try my best to enjoy myself as much as possible.


If anyone is thinking of the end then I would say you can get through it and no matter what there actually is someone out there to talk to.

punisher5112

I forgot to add I've known a small number of people that have ended things that I thought they were actually happy, such as had a very good job, wife and lovely kids and one even went on to further education and moved up the ladder in work but something happened and he ended it.

The mind is one seriously messed up thing to be honest.

Hector Savage

Hector Savage wrote: »

Heaertbreaking, Social Media companies have a lot to answer for.

Heartbreaking but not shocking at the same time. Social media means kids these ages live in a state of emotional over-stimulation and potential turmoil. Back when I was 11, 12 I found life hard enough not being fancied by girls, being left out at times by boys I was friends with a year before, and seeing the good-looking popular girls and boys going to the cinema together at the weekend while I was left uninvited to stew over my self-perceived deficiency - I can't imagine how acutely painful I would have found it to see those same popular classmates "liking" each others pictures and the visual proof that I am missing out.

The problem with social media is that it makes possible things which, if they didn't exist, would seem on first reflection to be desirable (eg. being able to post photos of yourself to be seen by others you know, be able to chat to people you know remotely and for free, be able to read about stuff you are interested in and comment on it ...) but once these things are made available and become taken for granted, the novelty of them disappears and negative consequences of them emerge; for example, regarding the point about photos - by being indirectly informed as to how relatively popular or good-looking you are, if you find yourself lacking in this regard you might then orient your perspectives or your motives in a more narcissistic direction, becoming more judgmental than you otherwise would ever have been about your own and other peoples' appearance and status, in an attempt to get validation on Instagram etc.

These are pressures that young teens and even children would not have suffered in the past but nowadays they have no choice but to suffer, through no fault of their own only they were born during the era that they were. I only have to look around me in a McDonalds to see lots of kids who look exactly the same, with the same body language indicating self-absorption, insecurity, and same head in their phone which they whip out as soon as they sit down at the table, them and all their friends. It seems like goddamn common sense to me that smartphones and social media are technologies which have detrimentally impacted on peoples mental well-being, especially that of young people who aren't the most popular and/or good-looking of their cohort.

I also believe personally that overstimulation is inherently bad as it numbs us at least to some degree and I believe many of us today walk around in such a numb state as a result of our being overstimulated with information.

pgj2015

I had a friend who told me the reason he deleted his facebook was because he only got 20 people wishing him a happy birthday, but he had 40 people wishing him a happy birthday the year before. he took his own life a few months later. i thought he was joking when he told me why he deleted facebook but he was just a sensitive guy who seemed to take things like that to heart.

A lot of people would be a lot better off if they weren't on social media.

Farfromhome02

You just don't have any idea what is going on inside somebody's head, everybody's biggest enemy is their own brain
I have heard of loads the past year myself,all different ages
It's just so sad

Farfromhome02

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Heartbreaking but not shocking at the same time. Social media means kids these ages live in a state of emotional over-stimulation and potential turmoil. Back when I was 11, 12 I found life hard enough not being fancied by girls, being left out at times by boys I was friends with a year before, and seeing the good-looking popular girls and boys going to the cinema together at the weekend while I was left uninvited to stew over my self-perceived deficiency - I can't imagine how acutely painful I would have found it to see those same popular classmates "liking" each others pictures and the visual proof that I am missing out.

The problem with social media is that it makes possible things which, if they didn't exist, would seem on first reflection to be desirable (eg. being able to post photos of yourself to be seen by others you know, be able to chat to people you know remotely and for free, be able to read about stuff you are interested in and comment on it ...) but once these things are made available and become taken for granted, the novelty of them disappears and negative consequences of them emerge; for example, regarding the point about photos - by being indirectly informed as to how relatively popular or good-looking you are, if you find yourself lacking in this regard you might then orient your perspectives or your motives in a more narcissistic direction, becoming more judgmental than you otherwise would ever have been about your own and other peoples' appearance and status, in an attempt to get validation on Instagram etc.

These are pressures that young teens and even children would not have suffered in the past but nowadays they have no choice but to suffer, through no fault of their own only they were born during the era that they were. I only have to look around me in a McDonalds to see lots of kids who look exactly the same, with the same body language indicating self-absorption, insecurity, and same head in their phone which they whip out as soon as they sit down at the table, them and all their friends. It seems like goddamn common sense to me that smartphones and social media are technologies which have detrimentally impacted on peoples mental well-being, especially that of young people who aren't the most popular and/or good-looking of their cohort.

I also believe personally that overstimulation is inherently bad as it numbs us at least to some degree and I believe many of us today walk around in such a numb state as a result of our being overstimulated with information.

I totally agree with over stimulation,I find your hearing things that is not good for your mental health all the time,there is so much negativity and anger in the world,it's hard not to become mentally stimulated by it,I also think people are immune now to seen horrific things,I know personally speaking from my own perspective some of the videos I do be sent.Its hard to erase things from your head

punisher5112

And yet people are so cruel to others....

Mind boggles.

kowloon

Social media makes it easier for bullies to get access to someone at any hour, and it makes people meaner because it distances a bully from their target. That said, cutting your child off from all social media could make things worse as you're effectively cutting them off from their friends and making them feel excluded. I'm glad I didn't grow up with it.

This just came up on The Irish Times website. The fact that the supervisor of the area admitted to the coroner that he didn't even bother to take a minute or two to view CCTV of the area at the time the employee took his own life speaks volumes. You can bet if a bike had been stolen they'd have checked it.

‘Stand up to bullies’ written on wall of canteen where man took own life, inquest told: Stephen Taylor (43) worked as a park ranger for Fingal County Council prior to 2017 death

branie2

Tragic

Wanderer2010

Deleted User wrote: »

This just came up on The Irish Times website. The fact that the supervisor of the area admitted to the coroner that he didn't even bother to take a minute or two to view CCTV of the area at the time the employee took his own life speaks volumes. You can bet if a bike had been stolen they'd have checked it.

‘Stand up to bullies’ written on wall of canteen where man took own life, inquest told: Stephen Taylor (43) worked as a park ranger for Fingal County Council prior to 2017 death

I wonder is the person or persons who bullied this man still employed there? I would be curious do these pieces of sh!t bullies in jobs ever feel any remorse for what they did. An event like this pretty much points the finger at bullies "You are the reason I killed myself". Scum should be fired.

freshpopcorn

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I wonder is the person or persons who bullied this man still employed there? I would be curious do these pieces of sh!t bullies in jobs ever feel any remorse for what they did. An event like this pretty much points the finger at bullies "You are the reason I killed myself". Scum should be fired.

Not trying to turn this into a big debate but I think school/workplace/etc bullying is very hard to prove unless they are witnesses or somebody owns up to it.

One eyed Jack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This just came up on The Irish Times website. The fact that the supervisor of the area admitted to the coroner that he didn't even bother to take a minute or two to view CCTV of the area at the time the employee took his own life speaks volumes. You can bet if a bike had been stolen they'd have checked it.

‘Stand up to bullies’ written on wall of canteen where man took own life, inquest told: Stephen Taylor (43) worked as a park ranger for Fingal County Council prior to 2017 death

That’s nothing like what he said, at least not according to your own link anyway?


Ciaran Rooney, the supervisor, said he entered the canteen and saw the words ‘stand up to bullies’ written in graffiti on the wall before discovering Mr Taylor.

...

Asked what information CCTV footage at the yard revealed on the day of Mr Taylor’s death, Mr Rooney said he did not know because he did not look at it.

Asked why, as a supervisor, he did not view the footage, Mr Rooney said he was not asked to.


You don’t think it was traumatising enough for him to have discovered the body in the first place?

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I wonder is the person or persons who bullied this man still employed there? I would be curious do these pieces of sh!t bullies in jobs ever feel any remorse for what they did. An event like this pretty much points the finger at bullies "You are the reason I killed myself". Scum should be fired.

No, all it does is fuel speculation about why a person chose to take their own life and gives people who need it an excuse to point the finger at other people who may not be guilty of any wrongdoing whatsoever. Nobody should be fired when there is no reason to fire anyone. That’s why there is an inquest in the first place - not to apportion blame, but to determine the actual circumstances surrounding the cause of a person choosing to take their own life. Pointing fingers requires actual evidence of any wrongdoing, not just allegations of perceived wrongdoing by others.

Wanderer2010

One eyed Jack wrote: »

That’s nothing like what he said, at least not according to your own link anyway?


Ciaran Rooney, the supervisor, said he entered the canteen and saw the words ‘stand up to bullies’ written in graffiti on the wall before discovering Mr Taylor.

...

Asked what information CCTV footage at the yard revealed on the day of Mr Taylor’s death, Mr Rooney said he did not know because he did not look at it.

Asked why, as a supervisor, he did not view the footage, Mr Rooney said he was not asked to.


You don’t think it was traumatising enough for him to have discovered the body in the first place?





No, all it does is fuel speculation about why a person chose to take their own life and gives people who need it an excuse to point the finger at other people who may not be guilty of any wrongdoing whatsoever. Nobody should be fired when there is no reason to fire anyone. That’s why there is an inquest in the first place - not to apportion blame, but to determine the actual circumstances surrounding the cause of a person choosing to take their own life. Pointing fingers requires actual evidence of any wrongdoing, not just allegations of perceived wrongdoing by others.

He wrote stand up to bullies on the wall of the workplace canteen where he took his life. He was off for 2 weeks for workplace related stress a few months before that. The man was clearly being bullied and although there is no evidence, and in most cases you are right its very hard to prove, someone there was the bully and they should be absolutely fcuking ashamed that they drove another human being to take their life. Someone there knows who the bully is, people aren't stupid.

Strumms

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

He wrote stand up to bullies on the wall of the workplace canteen where he took his life. He was off for 2 weeks for workplace related stress a few months before that. The man was clearly being bullied and although there is no evidence, and in most cases you are right its very hard to prove, someone there was the bully and they should be absolutely fcuking ashamed that they drove another human being to take their life. Someone there knows who the bully is, people aren't stupid.

What is worse is seeing people in positions of responsibility and authority turn a blind eye and facilitate it due to trying to keep the target off their back too. In jobs people need to be brave, need to stick up for one another. Not just management but especially management. Bullying is just facilitated because of silence.

One eyed Jack

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

He wrote stand up to bullies on the wall of the workplace canteen where he took his life. He was off for 2 weeks for workplace related stress a few months before that. The man was clearly being bullied and although there is no evidence, and in most cases you are right its very hard to prove, someone there was the bully and they should be absolutely fcuking ashamed that they drove another human being to take their life. Someone there knows who the bully is, people aren't stupid.

If he was actually clearly being bullied, then there would be evidence of him being bullied. The facts are that it’s not clear he was being bullied, but he felt he was. Whether he was actually being bullied or not, we simply don’t know and may never know, and nobody has any reason to be ashamed of something they haven’t done. All we actually do know for certain is that the man took his own life. We absolutely don’t know why, as is the case with a great number of suicides - we simply don’t know why a person chooses to take their own life, and pointing fingers because of allegations they made before their death isn’t likely to lead to an answer either. It’s far more likely to cause the persecution of innocent individuals.

You say that people aren’t stupid and yet here you are claiming that an individual took their own life because they were clearly being bullied, yet you have no evidence to suggest that they were actually being bullied. Frankly, I beg to differ with your opinion, I would suggest that people can be incredibly stupid, especially in circumstances surrounding a tragedy like suicide where people are looking for someone to blame.

SexBobomb

I had no idea there was such a massive difference in numbers between male and female. Obviously I would want the numbers to be zero across the board but has there been any reasons/theories given as to why the male rate is so much higher ?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

SexBobomb wrote: »

I had no idea there was such a massive difference in numbers between male and female. Obviously I would want the numbers to be zero across the board but has there been any reasons/theories given as to why the male rate is so much higher ?

It's fairly consistent across cultures with some outliers, which would seem to suggest it's not primarily a cultural thing.

Men tend to use more decisive and successful methods, without getting graphic the more violent ones. Women tend to OD or slit their wrists. So while more women engage in self harm and attempt suicide, more survive the attempt than men.

Men also usually engage with mental health support systems less, and later. In Ireland and a lot of other places those systems are barely fit for purpose anyway unfortunately.

Men are at higher risk from other factors which strongly correlate with suicide, particularly addiction and homelessness. Unemployment also tends to affect men's mental health more than it does women's, the whole pressure to be a provider thing.

freshpopcorn

SexBobomb wrote: »

I had no idea there was such a massive difference in numbers between male and female. Obviously I would want the numbers to be zero across the board but has there been any reasons/theories given as to why the male rate is so much higher ?

I remember reading something years ago a lot of women do try and commit suicide but men use more violent/harsher methods.

Wanderer2010

One eyed Jack wrote: »

If he was actually clearly being bullied, then there would be evidence of him being bullied. The facts are that it’s not clear he was being bullied, but he felt he was. Whether he was actually being bullied or not, we simply don’t know and may never know, and nobody has any reason to be ashamed of something they haven’t done. All we actually do know for certain is that the man took his own life. We absolutely don’t know why, as is the case with a great number of suicides - we simply don’t know why a person chooses to take their own life, and pointing fingers because of allegations they made before their death isn’t likely to lead to an answer either. It’s far more likely to cause the persecution of innocent individuals.

You say that people aren’t stupid and yet here you are claiming that an individual took their own life because they were clearly being bullied, yet you have no evidence to suggest that they were actually being bullied. Frankly, I beg to differ with your opinion, I would suggest that people can be incredibly stupid, especially in circumstances surrounding a tragedy like suicide where people are looking for someone to blame.

There is a very odd almost defensive tone to that post. The fact is the man chose those words very carefully. He didn't end his life in a pub, at a golf club or in his home. He knew what he was doing when he picked those words and its quite clear there was a bullying issue if he was off for 2 weeks from work with stress. And everyone in a job knows who the bully is. As insidious as workplace bullying is, anyone who isn't a sociopath or narcissist knows exactly who is causing the issue, and whoever pushed this man to do this should be not only sacked but if I had my way they would be charged as bullying, in my opinion, should be against the law.

But as mentioned in another post, usually spineless management allow the bully to thrive simply because people don't want the hassle of dealing with them- they want the easy life. And given how scummy and horrible the piece of sh!t who did this is, he or she probably wont even care and is already moving on to the next victim. Only when people stand up to these cowards will anything change, sadly Ireland is an awful country for that. Stop defending the bully will you, read between the bloody lines, just because he didn't have a smoking gun or recorded confession doesn't mean it wasn't bullying.

lainey_d_123

One eyed Jack wrote: »

If he was actually clearly being bullied, then there would be evidence of him being bullied. The facts are that it’s not clear he was being bullied, but he felt he was. Whether he was actually being bullied or not, we simply don’t know and may never know, and nobody has any reason to be ashamed of something they haven’t done. All we actually do know for certain is that the man took his own life. We absolutely don’t know why, as is the case with a great number of suicides - we simply don’t know why a person chooses to take their own life, and pointing fingers because of allegations they made before their death isn’t likely to lead to an answer either. It’s far more likely to cause the persecution of innocent individuals.

You say that people aren’t stupid and yet here you are claiming that an individual took their own life because they were clearly being bullied, yet you have no evidence to suggest that they were actually being bullied. Frankly, I beg to differ with your opinion, I would suggest that people can be incredibly stupid, especially in circumstances surrounding a tragedy like suicide where people are looking for someone to blame.

Ehh sounds a bit like victim blaming. I've never seen a case where someone 'felt like' they were being bullied for no reason. Maybe in cases of things like paranoid schizophrenia, but there are far more cases of people being bullied and then gaslighted ('ah sure I was just joking', 'can you not take a joke?', 'I didn't mean it in that way') than cases of people feeling victimised when they're not, IMO.

One eyed Jack

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

There is a very odd almost defensive tone to that post. The fact is the man chose those words very carefully. He didn't end his life in a pub, at a golf club or in his home. He knew what he was doing when he picked those words and its quite clear there was a bullying issue if he was off for 2 weeks from work with stress. And everyone in a job knows who the bully is. As insidious as workplace bullying is, anyone who isn't a sociopath or narcissist knows exactly who is causing the issue, and whoever pushed this man to do this should be not only sacked but if I had my way they would be charged as bullying, in my opinion, should be against the law.

But as mentioned in another post, usually spineless management allow the bully to thrive simply because people don't want the hassle of dealing with them- they want the easy life. And given how scummy and horrible the piece of sh!t who did this is, he or she probably wont even care and is already moving on to the next victim. Only when people stand up to these cowards will anything change, sadly Ireland is an awful country for that. Stop defending the bully will you, read between the bloody lines, just because he didn't have a smoking gun or recorded confession doesn't mean it wasn't bullying.

There was no defensive tone in my post, only a tone you perceived from my post, and that goes to the heart of the point I’m making really - just because a person perceives themselves being bullied, doesn’t mean they actually are being bullied, or that anyone is bullying them.

There’s no reading between the lines necessary or looking for something that simply isn’t there in order to blame someone for something they haven’t done. You’ve literally created a whole narrative out of nothing!

FWIW btw bullying and harassment are against the law, and there are numerous other remedies are available to a person who feels they are the victim of some wrongdoing before choosing to take their own life.

I’m not defending any bully because there is no bully to defend, not even the bully you invented to fit your narrative you’ve created on the back of what amounts to nothing more than an allegation.

Bobblehats

I’m not entertaining thoughts of suicide other than they were a great f*ckin band.

Graces7

Dalomanakora wrote: »

Please don't speak for "all of us" with chronic illness. They don't all value the better times. Some can't get out of their mental illnesses.


I have a chronic illness too (more than one actually) and while I absolutely value my life and love it for the most part, that's simply not true of everyone with chronic illness and it's silly to say it is.

Not at all " silly"! Silly word to use..Defeatism is self defeating; we all have it in us to recover and cope. saying and acting else is not wise or realistic. we all also have it in us to sit with someone who is in despair and support them until that crisis passes . rather than align with their despair . suicide is never the answer. not ever. nor is despair.

Graces7

One eyed Jack wrote: »

There was no defensive tone in my post, only a tone you perceived from my post, and that goes to the heart of the point I’m making really - just because a person perceives themselves being bullied, doesn’t mean they actually are being bullied, or that anyone is bullying them.

There’s no reading between the lines necessary or looking for something that simply isn’t there in order to blame someone for something they haven’t done. You’ve literally created a whole narrative out of nothing!

FWIW btw bullying and harassment are against the law, and there are numerous other remedies are available to a person who feels they are the victim of some wrongdoing before choosing to take their own life.

I’m not defending any bully because there is no bully to defend, not even the bully you invented to fit your narrative you’ve created on the back of what amounts to nothing more than an allegation.

People refuse or fail to stand up to bullies as they are scared they too will be bullied. So they walk by on the other side. Bullies are essentially cowards.

DeiseNew

One eyed Jack wrote: »

There was no defensive tone in my post, only a tone you perceived from my post, and that goes to the heart of the point I’m making really - just because a person perceives themselves being bullied, doesn’t mean they actually are being bullied, or that anyone is bullying them.

There’s no reading between the lines necessary or looking for something that simply isn’t there in order to blame someone for something they haven’t done. You’ve literally created a whole narrative out of nothing!

FWIW btw bullying and harassment are against the law, and there are numerous other remedies are available to a person who feels they are the victim of some wrongdoing before choosing to take their own life.

I’m not defending any bully because there is no bully to defend, not even the bully you invented to fit your narrative you’ve created on the back of what amounts to nothing more than an allegation.

Not much pity from you!

One eyed Jack

DeiseNew wrote: »

Not much pity from you!

I’m just not looking to blame anyone else when someone chooses to take their own life is all if that’s what you mean?

I don’t condone suicide anyway, regardless of the circumstances.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

In Donegal some years ago there was also a cluster of suicides (among girls, if I recall) in the one area, as if one suicide puts the idea into the heads of people as a real alternative. It really is a destructive presence in our society.

The film Heathers brilliantly dealt with this amongst teens.